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Zakgram	Posted - 2005.11.19 19:16:00 - [1] So I'm in my Ferox pwning the local rats and a pair of HAS fly in. Even with a WCS fitted I'm still not able to warp out in time as they fly over to me and start scramming. I aim all 7 weapons (heavy launchers x 2 and 5 x 250mm scout rails) but about 40 seconds later my tank is gone and I'm in my pod. Annoyingly the HAS has no visible damage. My question: In a ship like a Ferox designed for PVE envionments, how do you deal with HAS with the silly resists they have?
DARTHxFREE	Posted - 2005.11.19 19:21:00 - [2] HAC is the more commonly known term,...HAS just sounds silly,... being T2 thier generally better than a BC,...and being 2v1 the odds were on them and wasting a slot on WCS means your ship was not 100% I've seen a noob in a rax kill a cerberus who jumped him in the blets so any thing is possible IMO the ferox is the least able BC vs "HAS" >:-E3 /join Ch33ze & Whine Club
Bodhisattvas	Posted - 2005.11.19 19:26:00 - [3] Use EW When locks are broken, get out. I wouldn't bother 2v1 against HACS
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.11.19 19:52:00 - [4] BC < HAC in general... But if you know what you are doing and have skills you might use above equation to your benefit Be back in a year or so :/ Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Pre-patch: Scorpion + Gankageddon. Post-patch: Scorpion + Raven, maybe. Missiles sux, doesn't they?
Muad 'dib	Posted - 2005.11.19 19:57:00 - [5] The only way your gunna ge out alive is either jamming (two multispecs) or lots of Nos. But your not gunna kill either if theres two HACs on you, so i would say just slap your mids with jammers. You may kill a solo HAC pirate using a few medium Nos. Now that ECM works for rats too just jam the biggest rats first, this will not gimp your setup to high heaven like trying to fit the Nos'es.
HUGO DRAX	Posted - 2005.11.19 22:24:00 - [6] Edited by: HUGO DRAX on 19/11/2005 22:24:39 Heavy Assault Shuttle's The problem is they have very small sig radius and ultra high speeds.
Xen0phobiak	Posted - 2005.11.19 22:42:00 - [7] A pair of HAS will usually down an npc fitted battleship, unless for example, 2 deimos attempt to gank a serpentis tanked dominix. The best thing to do while npc hunting is to keep an eye on your intel channels, keep local in a window on its own, if a hostile or neutral warps in, safespot immediately until you know what they are flying.
Justice Bringer	Posted - 2005.11.19 23:11:00 - [8] Originally by: Zakgram My question: In a ship like a Ferox designed for PVE envionments, how do you deal with HAS with the silly resists they have? Sure they have exellent resist, but only Minmatar have 4 resists for shields then you simply go for their weakest shield resist. EM. Load up all bays with Thunderbolts and let rip. Shileds will go down very quick, then reload to go for their weakest armor resist: Explosive. Load up all bays with Havocs and let rip. Drones: Let all 10 out, lights (5 x Acolyte for EM, and 5 x Warrior for Exp) to do whatever damage they can. Head away at full boost if possible and train all weapons on one target only. If you have good skills it's possible to inflict serious damage to any HAS (and yes I call them what they are not HASEE blahhhh ) In any case 1 vs 1 a BC should be able to hold it's own against a HAS pilot given that both pilots have similar skills. You just got unlucky when 2 showed up, and as one poster already stated fitting 2 wcs in the low means you're in trouble cos you're not fittd to fight, only flee and when they stopped you from fleeing you couldn't even fight to your full potential. I'd say don't take it so badly, but know that as your skills increase and you have a better understanding of the ships ingame, you'll be able to identify their weaknesses merely at a glance. Justice
Foomanshoe	Posted - 2005.11.19 23:19:00 - [9] Did you just say shoot a Minmatar hac with thunderbolts? SLAP You use scourge against minmatar! SCOURGE! _______________________________________________ Originally by: Oveur To the nerfmobile!
Xen0phobiak	Posted - 2005.11.19 23:24:00 - [10] Any sensible HAC pilot will have a hardener on to cover his weakest resist, say thermal on a zealot, explosive on a deimos, armor hardeners in both cases. If you can tank him, which is unlikely, and are damaging him, he'll still be faster and more agile and will probably disengage.
Darius Shakor	Posted - 2005.11.19 23:26:00 - [11] Originally by: Justice Bringer Originally by: Zakgram My question: In a ship like a Ferox designed for PVE envionments, how do you deal with HAS with the silly resists they have? Sure they have exellent resist, but only Minmatar have 4 resists for shields then you simply go for their weakest shield resist. EM. Load up all bays with Thunderbolts and let rip. Shileds will go down very quick, then reload to go for their weakest armor resist: Explosive. Load up all bays with Havocs and let rip. Drones: Let all 10 out, lights (5 x Acolyte for EM, and 5 x Warrior for Exp) to do whatever damage they can. Head away at full boost if possible and train all weapons on one target only. If you have good skills it's possible to inflict serious damage to any HAS (and yes I call them what they are not HASEE blahhhh ) In any case 1 vs 1 a BC should be able to hold it's own against a HAS pilot given that both pilots have similar skills. You just got unlucky when 2 showed up, and as one poster already stated fitting 2 wcs in the low means you're in trouble cos you're not fittd to fight, only flee and when they stopped you from fleeing you couldn't even fight to your full potential. I'd say don't take it so badly, but know that as your skills increase and you have a better understanding of the ships ingame, you'll be able to identify their weaknesses merely at a glance. Justice You have obviously never flown one, and if you have you should be ashamed of not checking the stats before flying. Minmatar get the best EM and Thermal bonuses for the Heavy Assaults. Check the descriptions of their bonuses. Made to take on Amarr who use Lasers. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal Every man has a devil. You can never rest until you find it.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.19 23:27:00 - [12] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 19/11/2005 23:27:26 Any HAC pilot who loses to a BC pilot should be shot. No BC should ever break a HAC tank unless it had a full gank setup, in which case it would die far faster than it would kill the HAC anyways. Not to say that HACs can't lose if the HAC pilot has a crappy setup. P.S. I expect a slightly smaller 80-130m ship to beat a larger 30m ship every time in a 1v1 unless something goes horribly wrong. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.11.19 23:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 19/11/2005 23:27:26 Any HAC pilot who loses to a BC pilot should be shot. No BC should ever break a HAC tank unless it had a full gank setup, in which case it would die far faster than it would kill the HAC anyways. Not to say that HACs can't lose if the HAC pilot has a crappy setup. P.S. I expect a slightly smaller 80-130m ship to beat a larger 30m ship every time in a 1v1 unless something goes horribly wrong. Im pretty sure ive got a propechy setup that would compete with most HAC's .. Im not kidding, but i wont brag about it either With great power, comes great responsibility.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.19 23:31:00 - [14] Originally by: LWMaverick Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 19/11/2005 23:27:26 Any HAC pilot who loses to a BC pilot should be shot. No BC should ever break a HAC tank unless it had a full gank setup, in which case it would die far faster than it would kill the HAC anyways. Not to say that HACs can't lose if the HAC pilot has a crappy setup. P.S. I expect a slightly smaller 80-130m ship to beat a larger 30m ship every time in a 1v1 unless something goes horribly wrong. Im pretty sure ive got a propechy setup that would compete with most HAC's .. Im not kidding, but i wont brag about it either A good BC with its tanking bonus could probably tank nearly as well as a HAC in the right situation. The problem is that a good HAC can both tank well and do high damage at the same time, while a BC has to choose. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.11.19 23:32:00 - [15] The only way a BC can kill a HAC is if the HAC is A) NPCing B) Stupid C) The BC knows which HAC he's up against, and brings jammers / nosf and the lot. And for C), its still a gamble. Certainly, a Prophecy with 5 nosf and 2 lasers will beat a Zealot. Wether or not he does before the next DT is the question though. Any BC setup for NPCing will just die horribly, especially as an NPCing-setup ship is very predictable in the way of setups etc.
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.11.19 23:32:00 - [16] Originally by: Justice Bringer Originally by: Zakgram My question: In a ship like a Ferox designed for PVE envionments, how do you deal with HAS with the silly resists they have? Sure they have exellent resist, but only Minmatar have 4 resists for shields then you simply go for their weakest shield resist. EM. Load up all bays with Thunderbolts and let rip. Shileds will go down very quick, then reload to go for their weakest armor resist: Explosive. Load up all bays with Havocs and let rip. Drones: Let all 10 out, lights (5 x Acolyte for EM, and 5 x Warrior for Exp) to do whatever damage they can. Head away at full boost if possible and train all weapons on one target only. If you have good skills it's possible to inflict serious damage to any HAS (and yes I call them what they are not HASEE blahhhh ) In any case 1 vs 1 a BC should be able to hold it's own against a HAS pilot given that both pilots have similar skills. You just got unlucky when 2 showed up, and as one poster already stated fitting 2 wcs in the low means you're in trouble cos you're not fittd to fight, only flee and when they stopped you from fleeing you couldn't even fight to your full potential. I'd say don't take it so badly, but know that as your skills increase and you have a better understanding of the ships ingame, you'll be able to identify their weaknesses merely at a glance. Justice Sir.... You have NO idea what you are talking about. With great power, comes great responsibility.
Justice Bringer	Posted - 2005.11.19 23:47:00 - [17] Originally by: Foomanshoe Did you just say shoot a Minmatar hac with thunderbolts? SLAP You use scourge against minmatar! SCOURGE! Not quite how i wanted it t be read... Minie are the ONLY HAC with EM resists, ergo all others have 0% EM resists. Hence use Thunderbolts.... Is that better for you??? Justice
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.19 23:50:00 - [18] So 2 ships with a combined value of 300 odd mill ISK took out a single ship worth 1/10th of the value piloted by a person with 1/10th of the skillpoints? It's safe to say its a fight you wont win. Learn to avoid the situation. You cant fight them and win so keep an eye on local and when people warp in, you warp out before they scramble you.
Justice Bringer	Posted - 2005.11.20 00:06:00 - [19] Originally by: LWMaverick Sir.... You have NO idea what you are talking about. Yeah...?? A volley of Thunderbolts at my Ishtar and my shields will be gone. And that's a FACT, unless of course I'm shield tanking and i use EM hardners, which I don't do. So to sum up, EM missiles against shield with 0% EM resists means shields will go down. So as you can fathom, I do know something of what I speak. Justice
Sun Ra	Posted - 2005.11.20 03:04:00 - [20] Best option, pay more attention to local We're coming for you
deathfighter	Posted - 2005.11.20 04:10:00 - [21] Originally by: Zakgram I aim all 7 weapons (heavy launchers x 2 and 5 x 250mm scout rails) but about 40 seconds later my tank is gone and I'm in my pod. 40 sec I am surprised 2 hac can easily pop a bs in 30 sec. I would say u did well. A well fitet bs can take on a hac and have good chances of wining imo. that is if the bc is in perfect condition ie range, right amo fited etc. most hac's wear light tank these days and go for high dmg. hope it helps Death-
Shintoko Akahoshi	Posted - 2005.11.20 05:43:00 - [22] Originally by: Justice Bringer Originally by: LWMaverick Sir.... You have NO idea what you are talking about. Yeah...?? A volley of Thunderbolts at my Ishtar and my shields will be gone. And that's a FACT, unless of course I'm shield tanking and i use EM hardners, which I don't do. So to sum up, EM missiles against shield with 0% EM resists means shields will go down. So as you can fathom, I do know something of what I speak. Justice No offense, but why should that matter? If you're shield tanking (which seems strange on an Ishtar), you'll be set up to tank the damage, so the missiles won't be a problem. If you're armor tanking, you'll treat your shields as "that little buffer before I switch on the armor rep" and you'll again not have a problem. The issue isn't "do your shields go down?", the issue is "do you tank the damage?".
twit brent	Posted - 2005.11.20 05:45:00 - [23] Blasterthrons can do well against amarr and minmatar HACS. If you want an example look at drunkenone's last vid. He lost his vegabond in under 10 seconds to a megathron.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.20 09:54:00 - [24] Originally by: twit brent Blasterthrons can do well against amarr and minmatar HACS. If you want an example look at drunkenone's last vid. He lost his vegabond in under 10 seconds to a megathron. Hardly relevant
F'nog	Posted - 2005.11.20 10:10:00 - [25] Edited by: F''nog on 20/11/2005 10:10:56 If they were in either Gal or Cal HACs it's no surprise that they pwned you. They have massive resists against the weapon damage you do. If they were in a Min or Amarr HAC they'd have a bit of a harder time, but not much. So, no, it's not at all strange that they pwned you. HACs have nice resists, and you can only do so much in any ship in a 1v2 situation, especially if you're in an NPCing setup and they're prepared for PvP. To answer your question directly, Feroxes can handle themselves well in PvP, but it all depends on the situation. Any HAC will have at least one resist geared against your damage, so they'll be very well off when attacking you. Had they been regular cruisers, and if you were prepared, you could have won. But there are too many variables to say straight out how well you would do just by listing your ship type and a few mods that were fitted. Originally by: rowbin hod Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage.
Bollibompa	Posted - 2005.11.20 10:13:00 - [26] I tried a passively tanked Ferox against 4 AF, they couldnt break my tank, and yes, I just tried an extremely tanked Ferox, and couldnt fit any guns, but a crossbread between passive and active tank, so you can fit guns/launchers, should be able to kill 2 HAC's, IMHO (at least have the chance to kill them)
Grut	Posted - 2005.11.20 10:19:00 - [27] t2 Gankaproph will pop most hacs pretty easily as would a gankabrutix if they where dumb enough to come into range. I put 8 std heavy electrons & 7 dmgmods on ma apoc once nearly popped a corpies demios before i could turn them all off Mostly harmless
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.20 11:08:00 - [28] Originally by: Bollibompa I tried a passively tanked Ferox against 4 AF, they couldnt break my tank, and yes, I just tried an extremely tanked Ferox, and couldnt fit any guns, but a crossbread between passive and active tank, so you can fit guns/launchers, should be able to kill 2 HAC's, IMHO (at least have the chance to kill them)
DARTHxFREE	Posted - 2005.11.20 14:08:00 - [29] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 19/11/2005 23:27:26 Any HAC pilot who loses to a BC pilot should be shot. No BC should ever break a HAC tank unless it had a full gank setup, in which case it would die far faster than it would kill the HAC anyways. Not to say that HACs can't lose if the HAC pilot has a crappy setup. P.S. I expect a slightly smaller 80-130m ship to beat a larger 30m ship every time in a 1v1 unless something goes horribly wrong. This is very narrow minded, just because thier in a HAC doesn't mean they have all gunnery, cap, tank skills at max On paper is one thing,..reality never works out the same what if a brutix pilot has +5% implants to dmg,rof,repair duration/amount and the HAC pilot had no implants T >:-E3 /join Cheeze & Whine Club
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.20 14:09:00 - [30] Originally by: DARTHxFREE Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 19/11/2005 23:27:26 Any HAC pilot who loses to a BC pilot should be shot. No BC should ever break a HAC tank unless it had a full gank setup, in which case it would die far faster than it would kill the HAC anyways. Not to say that HACs can't lose if the HAC pilot has a crappy setup. P.S. I expect a slightly smaller 80-130m ship to beat a larger 30m ship every time in a 1v1 unless something goes horribly wrong. This is very narrow minded, just because thier in a HAC doesn't mean they have all gunnery, cap, tank skills at max On paper is one thing,..reality never works out the same what if a brutix pilot has +5% implants to dmg,rof,repair duration/amount and the HAC pilot had no implants Yeah, if the HAC has absolutely no skills and the BC has a full load of drones and NOS plus jammers it might win. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.

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