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The Difficulties in Bringing Macrominers to Justice

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Summersnow	Posted - 2005.11.21 14:05:00 - [31] Originally by: Jacques Archambault Patience is something you have to have as a forum mod'. and we all take a dose of special ISD medicine every day. Jacques' so, like yer sayin that all the mods are valium fiends???
JWright	Posted - 2005.11.21 14:14:00 - [32] Edited by: JWright on 21/11/2005 14:18:29 Interesting. I was unaware [perhaps because I am relatively newer to EVE] that these "macro-miners" were such a persistent problem. So Mr. Pumpkin has my thanks for starting this topic. If these macro-miners have become such a persistent problem, especially in the mining and distribution of both raw and processed ores, instituting a player-wide economic blockade on their activities will be incredibly difficult, if not downright impossible, given the sheer number of people who currently play EVE. Basic economics people: if there's demand, then somebody will [logically] find a way to supply it, and there is always someone in the crowd who may wink at a less-than-reputable transaction that makes them money. Far more logical, I would think, would be to strike at macro-mining operations, especially those in 0.9 and 1.0 systems. Let the NPC pirates handle them in systems below 0.8 - at the very least, the pirates should be able to disrupt mining operations for a few minutes. The alternative is asking CCP to increase the difficulty level of the NPC pirates so as to ensure that the macro-miner operations are well and complete destroyed. But this would also affect newer players who are just getting into the field. Finally, if you suspect someone of accepting money from a macro-miner, there's always the option of manually lowering your reputation with them. Surely the news will get around if there's a player tagged as working with macro-miners carrying a less-than-impressive rating. Just remember: all it takes is you telling your friends, and then your friends tell their friends, and so on and so forth. Just a few thoughts for the thread. P.S. Assuming that the remarks were correct regarding names of macro-miners, I believe that as of last night, there were several of them operating in the Eletta system, with the names being something like "88888888" and "00000000". Just a piece of news for the anti-macro mining crew. EDIT: Maybe someone should start up a vigilante group dedicated specifically to targeting macro-miner operations in high-security systems? Just a thought.
Lady Galadriel	Posted - 2005.11.21 14:26:00 - [33] I have reported , plaged stolen and annoyed many many many macrominers and for a shortwhile it gave me a warm glow inside - but now the markets are really been destroyed by these people. Lets be honest here the isk made goes on places liek ebay and the money goes to fund crime and terrorism the world over, any one who thinks otherwise is very niaive indeed. Yes RMR we will have criminal flagiing etc and other such goodies but it does not address the route cause that these players sell there isk for cold hard cash and that is the problem. It breachs the EULA and probably a load of tax & income laws its money laundering at its best. Is it an issue of not enough support staff at ccp to deal or is it something else - people want to know ! Oh and Discorporation - mate add something useful other than glib comments, I know you know better than that.
Maximus Khanage	Posted - 2005.11.21 14:28:00 - [34] Ok im a noob so I am assuming that the term macro mining means automated afk mining on a large scale basis, please correct my assumptions if they are wrong. It strikes me that from a coding point of view it would be very simple for CCP to stop macro mining; When ever one of the following actions occur; 1) Activating a mining laser on the targeted asteroid for the first time 2) Or when jettisoning the ore from your hold. 3) Or scooping the ore into your hold. Pop up a confirmation box in a random part of the screen, with two options YES/NO and at the same time, limit user input to mouse only, so a macro can not fire off a tab or enter to confirm the action. Also the code would have to monitor the lbutton clicks and if more than three lclicks were activated without one of the options (YES/NO) being selected, the action would be cancelled. Ok, so yeah it would mean more input from all us non macro****s when it comes to mining but if it means that macro mining is erradicated worth it I would say
Hi'Ryan Greetos	Posted - 2005.11.21 14:47:00 - [35] Macrominers are 2 edged sword to CCP. They eighter need to be PURE and clean them out and take a hit on their precious "subcriptions" numbers OR go ahead public saying that they bring money, stfu and play nicely with 'em. Being what they are now is not acceptable. Eighter remove them and make it public OR suck it and accept their blood money against your players. So which one it will be CCP?

Eris Discordia	Posted - 2005.11.21 14:53:00 - [36] Originally by: Summersnow Originally by: Jacques Archambault Patience is something you have to have as a forum mod'. and we all take a dose of special ISD medicine every day. Jacques' so, like yer sayin that all the mods are valium fiends??? No, he is saying he's very afraid of me My love is like bad medicine Forgot what I wanted to write here...

Roshan longshot	Posted - 2005.11.21 15:01:00 - [37] I would like to see a system, where as once a micro minning op is identified. And a GM has confirmed such op is indeed takeing place. Said GM flags said micro minners for all to engage, with out concord responce. Would'nt that be fun? Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter [i]pirate[/i] or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Bhaal	Posted - 2005.11.21 15:04:00 - [38] Originally by: Roshan longshot I would like to see a system, where as once a micro minning op is identified. And a GM has confirmed such op is indeed takeing place. Said GM flags said micro minners for all to engage, with out concord responce. Would'nt that be fun? That would be so cool... They are perma-flagged! The IP is perma-flagged! ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
Aeil	Posted - 2005.11.21 15:16:00 - [39] A question for those of you who know more than me, which granted narrows it down to everyone except my alt, is it considered an exploit to steal from macroers? what about if you report them then steal from them? Thanks ---------------------------------------------
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.11.21 15:30:00 - [40] Originally by: Eris Discordia My love is like bad medicine Ah, but it's such a gooood bad. :) winterblink warp drive active.http://winterblink.com/wda nature vraie.http://winterblink.com/env
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.21 16:01:00 - [41] Here's what my alt did with her afternoon Evil macro'rs spotted!11!!ELEVEN!!! Her sec status before the incident Died to quick to take a screenie - had 23k armour too :/ Who died? Trophies Her new sec status Life is hard now :'( Quick summary: Saw macrominers > Smartbombing domi > 5 podkills > Lost 8.2 sec (from 5.0 to -3.2)
Gorion Wassenar	Posted - 2005.11.21 16:54:00 - [42] If it is any way posible, a GM fleet would be a swell idea. a Titan that could go ANYWHERE and is imune to all damage armed with gigantical guns of doom. I think the moning mouse clicky thing is a good idea, and have it pop up every 10 minutes or somthing like that. Personally I wouldn't mind a system like WoW has to prevent marco'ers. Even if its a type of spyware - we all <3 CCP :) All we can do is be vigilent. ------------------ Fast and free, follow me. Time to make the sacrifice, we rise or fall.
Samurai Pumpkin	Posted - 2005.11.21 17:08:00 - [43] Macrominers avoid rats by warping out of a belt the moment that they are locked... by either a player or NPC so it's not that simple. They also have a built in macro to deploy drones to emulate a player at the keyboard.
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2005.11.21 17:10:00 - [44] Edited by: Snake Jankins on 21/11/2005 17:10:04 Am I allowed to steal ore from people who are maybe macro miners ? I ask that, because someone, who looks like a macro miner is somehow in a grey state. The ore might be gained in an illegal way, but since CCP hasn't reacted/confirmed it, there is no proof. So I wonder, if the petition and steal method is ok or can lead to a ban, too. Because if it's ok, I might 'help' them hauling a bit, too with another char. ___________ 'DISCLAIMER: All opinions in this post are provided "as is" and without any warranties.'
Har Ganeth	Posted - 2005.11.21 17:12:00 - [45] Nothing wrong with stealing ore from anyone at the moment. It's not polite to do it to a human, but perhaps they should know better than to mine in a busy system etc etc. Doing it to a macro miner is just karma. :)
St Dragon	Posted - 2005.11.21 17:17:00 - [46] ok still seems to be some confusion on tis so ill straighten it. Youc steal from maco miner and you can harrass them as long as you petition them to the GM's. If you dont petion it will count as an exploit.
Willo Vasquez	Posted - 2005.11.21 17:19:00 - [47] Originally by: Snake Jankins Edited by: Snake Jankins on 21/11/2005 17:10:04 Am I allowed to steal ore from people who are maybe macro miners ? I ask that, because someone, who looks like a macro miner is somehow in a grey state. The ore might be gained in an illegal way, but since CCP hasn't reacted/confirmed it, there is no proof. So I wonder, if the petition and steal method is ok or can lead to a ban, too. Because if it's ok, I might 'help' them hauling a bit, too with another char. AFAIK, provided you petition first, then the ore is fair game.
Phelan Lore	Posted - 2005.11.21 17:22:00 - [48] I think high sec mining needs to be nerfed in general, macro or not. It shouldn't be a significant source of income for anyone except for new players. This would also help with a lot of the crowding in more populated systems. Of course my opinion may be biased.
Samurai Pumpkin	Posted - 2005.11.21 17:32:00 - [49] That has nothing to do with this. Stay on topic.
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2005.11.21 18:03:00 - [50] Edited by: Snake Jankins on 21/11/2005 18:04:34 Originally by: Maximus Khanage Ok im a noob so I am assuming that the term macro mining means automated afk mining on a large scale basis, please correct my assumptions if they are wrong. It strikes me that from a coding point of view it would be very simple for CCP to stop macro mining; When ever one of the following actions occur; 1) Activating a mining laser on the targeted asteroid for the first time 2) Or when jettisoning the ore from your hold. 3) Or scooping the ore into your hold. Pop up a confirmation box in a random part of the screen, with two options YES/NO and at the same time, limit user input to mouse only, so a macro can not fire off a tab or enter to confirm the action. Also the code would have to monitor the lbutton clicks and if more than three lclicks were activated without one of the options (YES/NO) being selected, the action would be cancelled. Ok, so yeah it would mean more input from all us non macro****s when it comes to mining but if it means that macro mining is erradicated worth it I would say A point were I totally agree. Mining should be made more interactive, so that you have to make decisions based on what you see on the screen. Then common programs that can be used for that purpose just won't work. But I think the implementation should be made in a way that it doesn't depend just on clicking a button in a window. Common macro programs allow positioning relative to windows coordinates etc. So avoid all this standard windows stuff and implement something that uses low level graphics functions/output like dx9 functions and not some high level gui functions or something that uses these functions. Then a potential cheater needs to be a programmer and the distribution of his tools in a way that CCP doesn't get aware of it and takes some steps against it would be more difficult. Imho with the result that macro-mining would be almost not existent. That's at least what I believe. ___________ 'DISCLAIMER: All opinions in this post are provided "as is" and without any warranties.'
Hohenheim OfLight	Posted - 2005.11.21 18:59:00 - [51] Edited by: Hohenheim OfLight on 21/11/2005 18:59:47 I am in ayd camping this lot, Ltoygn Oyvyng Yt Toyb PPlingy Ltoygn XUYTTPO KON TN LUN TEKA TON LIN PLIN PNA KTIPGN The controller has admited that he is controlling all of them, but say's he needs isk for a war. I have manged to stop all the mining activity for they can not jet now, but it should not be like this, any one who can fly a barge should be kicked out of the noobs corps. So i can kill the scum.
Phelan Lore	Posted - 2005.11.21 18:59:00 - [52] Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin That has nothing to do with this. Stay on topic. If that was in regard to my topic... Sure it does. If high sec mining is no longer profitable, macro miners will leave or move to lowsec where they will be vulnerable to attack.
Martin Gore	Posted - 2005.11.21 19:19:00 - [53] Edited by: Martin Gore on 21/11/2005 19:21:03 CCP COULD STOP THIS IF THEY WANTED! I'm getting fed up of reporting them and nothing happening. Dev's can spot these, they could also go through the ice belts banning after watching macro's for 10 mins. It wouldn't take much, or many resources. It's just unfair that people have to go to such extremes as losing their sec status to do the work that the dev's should be doing. Too many jokes when answering post's about macroer's....like it's funny??? Do something, put your loyal players first, and not macro miners. People are getting cheesed off. Can we have an official reply as to what you guys are doing about this?? Why should we spend our spare time doing work (and paying to do it) that you guys are paid for?
Samurai Pumpkin	Posted - 2005.11.21 20:03:00 - [54] Originally by: Phelan Lore Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin That has nothing to do with this. Stay on topic. If that was in regard to my topic... Sure it does. If high sec mining is no longer profitable, macro miners will leave or move to lowsec where they will be vulnerable to attack. Point noted but macrominers do already exist to a certain degree in lowsec since the value of trit and pyerite have deflated on ebay so isogen is the next biggest moneymaker for them. Sure you can kill them but these bots are still making more than they are losing, by far.
Sharada	Posted - 2005.11.21 20:17:00 - [55] Originally by: Snake Jankins Edited by: Snake Jankins on 21/11/2005 17:25:39 Edited by: Snake Jankins on 21/11/2005 17:24:43 Am I allowed to steal ore from people who are maybe macro miners ? I ask that, because someone, who looks like a macro miner is somehow in a grey state. The ore might be gained in an illegal way, but since CCP hasn't reacted/confirmed it, there is no proof. So I wonder, if the petition and steal method is ok or can lead to a ban, too. Because if it's ok, I might 'help' them hauling a bit, too with another char. You won't be baned for ore thieving (unfortuntely) on it's own. Lately I've been trying to help chase off macro miners in Gallente space. Usually I watch them for obvious signs, then note down all the info for them (name, age, race, corp) and who is doing what, then I try and get a rise out of them. Typically this means bumping, close approcing and yes, ore nabbing. So far I'm 3 for 3 (groups) but as I can mine just fine on my own if I was ever to falsely target a honest miner I'd just appologize and jetison it right then and there. Saddly with the new flagging in RMR it's going to make it that much harder for honest miners (and part timers like me) to defend their fields. I've petitioned (when it will even work, which is rare) and trailed these rejects but it should be CCP dealing with this.
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.11.21 20:17:00 - [56] better co ordination in attacking the low sec ones - reporting the high sec ones (keep sending those petitions knocking them off etc - the eye of the eye systemm will stop the jet can ones (ie take their can put youre can in its place) The next thign that worries me is the POS in systems up to 0.7 - is CCP going to make it thta only player corps can erect POS in the higher sec systems or at least players in player run corps - at least u can war dec on those corps and attack their POS Only other option is take a mining barge and attempt to mine out their roids - clear the fields where they operate force them to move around. I still like the idea of making all players after 1 month of playing of having to join a player corp or if they remain in a NPC corp facing a 75% tax on basically all transactions. Same would go if they rejoin an NPC corp revert back to 75% tax that would push a lot of changes ie less alts - or at least more alts in player corps and slow these bots down.
Dr Slaughter	Posted - 2005.11.21 20:40:00 - [57] Originally by: Eris Discordia Originally by: Summersnow Originally by: Jacques Archambault Patience is something you have to have as a forum mod'. and we all take a dose of special ISD medicine every day. Jacques' so, like yer sayin that all the mods are valium fiends??? No, he is saying he's very afraid of me My love is like bad medicine Heh. Nah. He's a macro. 8P
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.11.21 20:45:00 - [58] well good work i also petition them when i find them. Otherwise if they leave a jetcan petition first - steal their ore after petition and just move on.
Istvan F	Posted - 2005.11.21 21:14:00 - [59] Maybe a stupid question, but can't you declare war on a macro-mining Corp and shoot their ships to pieces without Concord interfering?

kieron	Posted - 2005.11.21 21:16:00 - [60] Originally by: Teri Ipeh 15 accounts @ $14.95/month each account. You want to know why CCP don't jump on the case right away? $225.00 per month in the CCP coffers is why. You don't really expect them to do anything but take their time with banning so many accounts when it does nothing but cost them money? The law-abiding playerbase and the good of the game come second to the almighty dollar I'm afraid. It's about time people stopped expecting too much from a business like CCP and realised the bottom line for any company is how much profit they can make each month - and not how macromining scumbags screw the game over for the rest of us. Whoa there, put the assumptions back in the box, please. The majority of the macro miners and ISK farmers are abusing trial accounts and not paying CCP anything. If anything, the macro miners and ISK farmers are costing CCP money by soaking up bandwidth, GM time and driving paying customers away from EVE. What a number of posters have said is the reality here, we do not have the support team to prosecute the ISK farmers as fast as the petitions come in. As soon as a GM bans 10 accounts, another 20 roll in and start the process all over again. We are looking at options to interrupt the flow of trial accounts available to the people abusing the EULA, the trial account system and impacting the ability of our paying customers enjoyment of EVE. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online


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