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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.11.22 09:43:00 -
[91]
There is a pretty simple answer to all of this. It won't compeltely solve the problem but it'll make it unfeasible for over 90% of abusers. The eve client needs to get the user's MAC address and send that encrypted on logging in. That way multiple users on one machine are linkable and changes of IP have no effect. They could then implement whatever they like to fix these problems like limiting free accounts to one per mac address. It'd give more accountability to people since you could record their IP but also the computer they're on. The MAC address is bound to a piece of hardware so short of replacing that or modding it to send a random address or fake adjustable address on request (which can be done, but not by ~99% of people), people couldn't evade IP-bans and they'd suddenly become a lot more effective.
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elFarto
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Posted - 2005.11.22 10:41:00 -
[92]
 Originally by: Nyphur
The MAC address is bound to a piece of hardware so....
The MAC address is fairly easy to change. A quick google search will show you.
But saying that, it also requires a reboot for it to work. So it wouldn't matter if they changed it as they'd all have the new MAC address.
So you could limit trial accounts, but what about real accounts?
There are lots of people that run multiple accounts on a single PC, and that's perfectly allowed.
What would you say about a hard limit on the amount of clients you could run at a time, say 3 or 4?
But saying that, the only true way to stop macro miners is make mining something that can't be macro'ed.
I'll start a thread about this in Features and Ideas.
Regards
elFarto
Stratego > 2005.10.22 14:15:17 combat Imperium Alliance petitions you, glancing off causing no real damage. |
Berrik Radhok
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Posted - 2005.11.22 11:11:00 -
[93]
There's nothing wrong with a cluster of macro miners that a cheap cruiser fully fitted with smartbombs can't fix.
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Kent Tero
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Posted - 2005.11.22 11:32:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Kent Tero on 22/11/2005 11:32:01
Come on keiron, the vast majority of macrominers that are raking in the isk for ebay aint 14-day old trial accounts. I can't believe a CCP representative expects us to swallow that.
Like people have said consistantly and from what I've personally seen, most macorers are 2 to 3 month old characters at least - flying barges fitted with strip miners. Show me a 14-day trial character that can do that before his trial expires 
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Bhaal
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Posted - 2005.11.22 11:39:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Bhaal on 22/11/2005 11:40:18
Originally by: kieron
Originally by: Teri Ipeh
15 accounts @ $14.95/month each account.
You want to know why CCP don't jump on the case right away?
$225.00 per month in the CCP coffers is why.
You don't really expect them to do anything but take their time with banning so many accounts when it does nothing but cost them money?
The law-abiding playerbase and the good of the game come second to the almighty dollar I'm afraid. It's about time people stopped expecting too much from a business like CCP and realised the bottom line for any company is how much profit they can make each month - and not how macromining scumbags screw the game over for the rest of us.
Whoa there, put the assumptions back in the box, please.
The majority of the macro miners and ISK farmers are abusing trial accounts and not paying CCP anything. If anything, the macro miners and ISK farmers are costing CCP money by soaking up bandwidth, GM time and driving paying customers away from EVE. What a number of posters have said is the reality here, we do not have the support team to prosecute the ISK farmers as fast as the petitions come in. As soon as a GM bans 10 accounts, another 20 roll in and start the process all over again.
We are looking at options to interrupt the flow of trial accounts available to the people abusing the EULA, the trial account system and impacting the ability of our paying customers enjoyment of EVE.
If this is the caes, we need a seperate server for trial accounts.
I know many think newbs would not get the full jist of EVE on a new server, but they might if we have some from TQ log onto this server once in a while to help them out.
I'd log onto the newb server every couple of days or so to help out the newbs...
If trial accounts are overwhelming you guys that much, make a new server where these macroing bastards can't waste GM resources...
Then the GM's can turn their full attention to banning real accounts on TQ.
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Current Hobby other than EVE |
tesvtr
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Posted - 2005.11.22 11:54:00 -
[96]
Didn't take the time to read the whole thread, this may already have been said, but isn't profiting from the macroers by taking their ore also deemed an exploit ?
I am no IT expert, but isn't there some automated way CCP can detect macro mining (pattern recognition for instance)?
Leaving things to the player base runs the risk of them falling foul of the Eula by profiting from these despicable activities. Unless of course CCP turn a blind eye ....
Of course they could also help the lag problem by just getting rid of mining, and supply the markets themselves with raw materials - then give all ppl with good mining skills the equivalent in Spaceship command and tech 2 guns and a free HAC to go on a rampage 
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Dahin
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Posted - 2005.11.22 13:14:00 -
[97]
Can I get permission to create a macrothief that will steal from macrominers?
I will incorporate petitioning them into the whole thing, I promiss!
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Warning Gatecamping
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Posted - 2005.11.22 13:34:00 -
[98]
Main problem with this macromining is that they clean belts fast for good ore... so miners are "forced" to either go low sec (many that can't defend themself) or are happy being in high sec for that matter... but also they might be forced to do something else.
Personally I am actually quite happy doing mining as profession, it used to be a problem in high sec only meaning in 1.0-0.8 systems so we who spent our time in .7-.5 and sometimes in low sec where not affected by this, now I have seen them operate in 0.5 even as their script allowes them to defend themself too.
They are using battleships and miningbarges when mining where the battleship can carry lots of drones.
The result are systems or regions without ore like Kernite and so on... that playing and paying players can't do what they want to be doing...
I am now missionwhoring in low sec, and after RMR that might not be a options for me as well if implantprices drop... I am not much for pvp and I don't like attacking people unless I get attacked myself, maybe a trade as macromining orethief will do ??? hmmm I have played with that tought atleast a few times but it is plain boring.
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.11.22 14:31:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Nyphur
That's bound to a piece of hardware you have so you can't just change it.
Its stupidly easy to change your mac address.
For linux, as root: ifconfig eth0 hw ether 00:00:00:00:00:00
For windows, browse to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet \Control\Class\{4D36E972-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318 in your registry, find the directory for your device and change the right string (changes with windows versions).
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Samuel Baxter
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Posted - 2005.11.22 14:40:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Samuel Baxter on 22/11/2005 14:39:57
[deleted]
_________________________
- Well look at this: 'pears we got here in the nick a time. What does that make us?
- Big damned heroes sir.
- Ain't we just. |
Jennai
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Posted - 2005.11.22 14:51:00 -
[101]
Originally by: tesvtr
I am no IT expert, but isn't there some automated way CCP can detect macro mining (pattern recognition for instance)?
the easiest way would be to have a GM look at all the petitions about macroers, take down the names, and randomly check on them. with the abysmal response times on 'other' petitions I suspect they're a bit understaffed and can't spare anyone to investigate macroers which is why there's so many of them now.
but no form of testing, automated or GM, can do anything about the Chinese sweatshop isk farmers running 5 accounts with sequentially numbered nonsense names, and they're just as much of a problem as the people who do the same with afk macros. fortunately with RMR we'll be able to grief the hell out of them so they won't be as much of a problem.
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Somatic Neuron
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Posted - 2005.11.22 14:56:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin
Today in Jita someone in local said...
Are there any humans mining ice that would like to be left alone?
Nobody responded. How terribly terribly sad. The eve economy has a driving force such as macrominers supplying a good deal of the minerals instead of the players with the skills that they spent months developing.
*Looks at his 4 Covetors in storage*
Maybe if mining were not such a boring and mindless activity, more people would do it and not just buy their minerals off the market. Even with a group of friends together mining, you still aren't even paying attention to the game, except to select another asteroid or move ore to the can...other than that, you are chatting on in gang chat, or talking on Teamspeak (we usually play trivial pursuit, or take turns telling jokes) when we bother taking the time to mine.
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Macro Slasher
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Posted - 2005.11.22 15:08:00 -
[103]
One reason is that many of them are NOT macro miners but Chinese (etc) sweatshop things. They farm ISK, sell for real money. Answering or reacting to you mostly serves no purpose to them. (No, destroying them just takes coupel percents off their income. It's mostly a small irritation.) And they can't "get caught" anyhow.
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Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2005.11.22 15:11:00 -
[104]
Ineed there was two groups of 5 barges, in ayd last night beeing controlled by a korean guy, in the end he had to move on to tolle.
The problem is they dont see it as wrong i got one guy to talk to me and he admitted that he was paid to mine and it was a job, Now if i post the log file for ccp will he be band?
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Rat Hubble
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Posted - 2005.11.22 15:34:00 -
[105]
From a locked similar thread :-)
Originally by: Bl4zer
Originally by: Macro Slasher
Macroers might be still easy to nail. These guys are not.
Yes, I agree. Easier just to target all miners. Yarrrrrr.
LMAO
I mine a fair bit, but I like your atitude - targeting all miners will make mining more risky and will lead to less airy fairy mining while watching TV or cooking dinner etc.
Eventually the miners will grow ears and eyes like rabbits so that they can detect any slight gravitational field disruption as someone warps in. This will lead to miners working under more duress and lower yeilds and higher market prices.
Only the smart and quick will survive - Veldspar will become a valued commodity and miners will rise up and be recognised for their skills as a space pilot and not just as a burger munching telly watcher.
In my short but intense time, I have grown to hate 1.0.....Force those " put on the cruise control, sit back, and watch your ars& grow " farmers to get out into low sec where they need to earn a living with some degree of risk equal to the rewards.
Or...
Re spawn roids in 1.0 and maybe .9 - once a week
That is just my humble self opinionated opinion. 
The Capacitor is empty. |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2005.11.22 15:36:00 -
[106]
Originally by: kieron
We are looking at options to interrupt the flow of trial accounts available to the people abusing the EULA, the trial account system and impacting the ability of our paying customers enjoyment of EVE.
Damnit Kieron... I really don't know how many more times I have to tell you guys: The only friggin' thing needed to stop the abuse is a small improvement to mining! A small enhancement to the mechanics of mining which provides more entertainment for players and protection against macro abuse at the same time.
Instead of paying GMs all of this wasted time on macro abuse you should pay two programmers or whoever the hell it takes to change mining so that macro-mining becomes impossible and the problem solved once and for all.
Sheesh...
Mai's Idealog |
Haeloic
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Posted - 2005.11.22 15:43:00 -
[107]
As far as I can tell there is only one solution for this problem, and that is for EVE players to not BUY money ONLINE. They're filling a demand obviously, and as long as people buy money on EBAY, there will be macrominers, farmers, etc. etc. World of Warcraft has been plagued by these poeple since the game went live and there has been absolutely no solution thus far, there are just too many too often...and I've personally seen them contribute heavily to servers dying due to out-of-whack economies.
Report them when you see them, but don't expect the problem to end.
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Haeloic
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Posted - 2005.11.22 15:47:00 -
[108]
BTW Rat Hubble, I like your thinking!
p.s. - how do I get my avatar to show up?
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.11.22 15:49:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Haeloic
As far as I can tell there is only one solution for this problem, and that is for EVE players to not BUY money ONLINE.
Wow its so simple, i wonder why noone else thought of that -.o
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Jennai
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Posted - 2005.11.22 15:52:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Macro Slasher
One reason is that many of them are NOT macro miners but Chinese (etc) sweatshop things. They farm ISK, sell for real money. Answering or reacting to you mostly serves no purpose to them. (No, destroying them just takes coupel percents off their income. It's mostly a small irritation.) And they can't "get caught" anyhow.
if you steal their ore, they get tremendously ****ed and spam local with Chinese and hilarious engrish.
qwrgfhbo > He take me stone ,I've lost lost's money!!!!!!
if you continue stealing their ore, they have to stop mining. some will just sit there and try to bore you away, some will move around. either way, just run a locator on them half an hour later and you can screw up their operation again.
after RMR we can grief them even more than now, and maybe even blow them up, and they won't be able to afford many replacement ships since a lot of people will be out for macroer blood, and they won't have much money since everything they mine is going to ebay sellers.
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Rhyslin
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Posted - 2005.11.22 16:05:00 -
[111]
Frankly, this whole macromining business is really a big fault in game play design. You have:
1. A game mechanic that is so mind numbingly repetitive, devoid of interest or fun, and requires no player skill that a very simple macro can do 99% of the work.
2. The result is a commodity (either the commodity itself or the ISK it can sell for) which is a VITAL component of the gameplay for a real player, thus setting up the huge demand.
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ChironV
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Posted - 2005.11.22 16:15:00 -
[112]
There may be a simple solution to this, but it is dependent on the dev's and if the new accounts can be "limited".
New trial accounts should not have the ability to give or sell items to paying accounts. If the trial macro'ed accounts cannot give the minerals or isk to the paying shill accounts they use to distribute the isk then they are kaput.
________________________________________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
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franny
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Posted - 2005.11.22 16:17:00 -
[113]
do we have a channel for people who/to hunt macro miners?
the ore theives have 'tookurstuff' (they do help with macro miners tho)
the pirates/anti-pirates have 'bounty'
go with the alt that can use small high firepower frigs(they are cheap, and easy to replace) and a hauler
steal their ore for a bit, then suicide them
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Haeloic
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Posted - 2005.11.22 16:22:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Originally by: Haeloic
As far as I can tell there is only one solution for this problem, and that is for EVE players to not BUY money ONLINE.
Wow its so simple, i wonder why noone else thought of that -.o
Unfortunately it only sheds light on it, but it's still not a viable solution...people will always try to take the easy way out. I'll always be confused as to how people enjoy a game they buy, then buy thier way through. Isn't part of the enjoyment the progress...or is it just the destination?
I guess the answer is apparent.
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Hellspawn01
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Posted - 2005.11.22 16:35:00 -
[115]
How about removing some features for a trial account? Like usage of certain skills for barges, lvl3 cruisers and all ships above to prevent suicide attacks.
This would remove a big load of exploiters cuz they must get a full account to macro mine, and that will cost them alot.
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BlogÖ |
Butter Dog
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Posted - 2005.11.22 16:40:00 -
[116]
I posted this in the features and ideas thread but it seems to be equally relevant here.
-------------
*sigh*
It IS EASY to stop macrominers. Here is how.
1 - limit trial account to frigates (even more reason to upgrade to full account, and you can see all the game dynamics in a frigate so can't see why not)
2 - a simple and short security code to copy before a jetcan pops out, as I outlined a few posts above
3 - reduce jetcan life to 30 minutes
CCP - is there any good reason why this cannot happen?
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mikos
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Posted - 2005.11.22 16:43:00 -
[117]
Well this is just an idea one of many being kicked around here
The problems dont all seem to be caused by trial accounts. Most macro miners that ive seen are all in npc start up corp not on trial accounts. Howe about limiting the time someone can remain in an NPC corps to say 4 weeks. The advantage would be that the Eve player base could simply decalare war on those that abuse the system.
I add this is a suggestion only there are no doubt many reasons why this wouldnt be an approprate route to go down no doubt im gonig to hear some now.
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rig0r
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Posted - 2005.11.22 16:44:00 -
[118]
Edited by: rig0r on 22/11/2005 16:46:15
How about making all trial accounts outlaws ? 
Seriously, nerf the noobcorps. Solves two problems, the macromining and the large number of noobcorp alts that are used for spying and such. Give them a seperate piece of space where they have limited functionality.
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Skelum
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Posted - 2005.11.22 17:02:00 -
[119]
Well look if CCP doesnt do anything then maybe we all shoul.
Have a channel dedicated to sharing locations of sighted macro miners. If ppl in the channel are close they can go and kill them or steal there ore.
Channel - Macro Hunters
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mikos
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Posted - 2005.11.22 17:05:00 -
[120]
There are 213 people in oursulaert at the moment the majority are macro miners.... i dont see that CCP have any choice thay will have to do something otherwise the Market in Eve will just slowly die....people will get fed up and leave.
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