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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2006.01.02 16:33:00 -
[181]
It doesn't matter which country they are from!
Hire some interns from a local university, perform an ISK trail audit, and ban the lot. We lose a couple of thousand macro accounts and a couple of thousand player accounts, who's going to care? The resulting economic distortions will be trivial, and we could be rid of half the troublemakers at a stroke. What's more, the panic this will create will ensure that no-one will dare buy ISK again. EVE is unique, thank god, in that you can't just power-level a character back to where you were.
It will also cost CCP some money from lost revenue, but if they are serious about the vision they had when they started work on the game, they will be willing to sacrifice a few percent of their revenue stream.
And it is simple to start. There are what, 80,000 accounts? I have scanned through 125,000 accounts in 3 days on a web forum before, it's feasible, just make a shortlist of the random gibberish names and commence your investigation there.
I have nothing to hide, and nothing to fear from this. I just doubt CCP has the manpower. 
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Cleric JohnPreston
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Posted - 2006.01.02 17:55:00 -
[182]
Like thats going to happen. Im sure CCps accountants would have something to say about reducing their revenue.
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Jennai
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Posted - 2006.01.02 18:00:00 -
[183]
 Originally by: Bongo Smith
And this helps against Brazilian, Filipino, American, European, Indonesian and Whoknowswhattian farmers how?
A quarter reduction in eBay farmers is nice, but it's only a quarter.
a hell of a lot more than 1/4 of them are Chinese sweatshop farmers. since patch, I saw ONE report of eastern European isk farmers in anti-macro channel, and all the rest were Chinese.
-------
macro hunters - join channel MacroIntel
macro miner killboard: www.anti-macro.com |
Dendrin Koljn
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Posted - 2006.01.02 21:05:00 -
[184]
Well after reading this and other related threads.....
1. The idea that CCP don't care is ridiculus imo - If it was MY game - I'd be doing all i can to stop it. The revenue loss arguement is pathetic - If the number of 'I'm quiting' posts because of this is correct then 10-20 players a week are leaving so CCP are losing revenue by not doing anything. And if by killing 200 macro accounts keeps these people playing then CCP will make up any percived lose pretty quick.
2. Stopping it and keeping the game playable is not a simple as most people seem to think - As long as they can profit from it it will continue - it's a game wide problem not just EVE's - What is needed are solutions that increase the RL cost to the macro'ers without affecting anyone else. Limiting trial accounts which has been done is one way that has no real impact on the game - so well done CCP.
With that in mind...
All macrominer groups appear to be in the same NPC corp so..
1. A change in the character creation so charcters created within the same time period all end up in different starter corps - With the delay for character deletion this would mean extra time required in RL to get macro groups together - which increases their costs. And has no impact on game play for anyone else (that i can see)
OR
2. Assign Mining Rights to NPC corps in high security space - so each NPC corp can only mine in certain 'HOME' systems. Add a pop-up window to let you know your breaking a treaty and you get concorded if you mine.
Obviously 2 will have an impact to the game, but i think it to be more of a short term one of stripped systems and new players being frustrated with the lack of minable ore, but the benifit is obvious, the macro'ers are either have to move into 0.5 and below (where they can be dealt with in game) or Stripmine the same system over and over (everyone knows where they are, and can be dealt with) - which should cut their profit right down, due to the sudden limit of ore. They could of course form a corp, (again they can be dealt with ingame).
How easy this would be for CCP to impliment I have no idea, not as easy as most of us would think i'd imagine. |
Cleric JohnPreston
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Posted - 2006.01.02 21:13:00 -
[185]
couldnt trial accounts just be put on a completely different cluster with little or no asteroid belts or a modified market so that theyre worthless???
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2006.01.02 21:25:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Dendrin Koljn
1. A change in the character creation so charcters created within the same time period all end up in different starter corps - With the delay for character deletion this would mean extra time required in RL to get macro groups together - which increases their costs. And has no impact on game play for anyone else (that i can see)
Pointless. MMs from different corps are operating together all of the time. I don't see how this would even slightly affect their performance. It's not like they use the NPC corp channel or anything... it's completely irrelevant.
Originally by: Dendrin Koljn
2. Assign Mining Rights to NPC corps in high security space - so each NPC corp can only mine in certain 'HOME' systems. Add a pop-up window to let you know your breaking a treaty and you get concorded if you mine.
Now this idea is interesting... it would still allow legitimate miners to do their own thing but at the same time would have an immediate effect on the ore / isk farming industry. It might encourage players to join player corps, and maybe even the MMs too so we could finally start wardeccing them 
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2006.01.02 21:27:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Cleric JohnPreston
couldnt trial accounts just be put on a completely different cluster with little or no asteroid belts or a modified market so that theyre worthless???
Trial accounts really don't matter. Most MMs are past the trial period as it is. If trial accounts were severely limited, the companies that run these operations would simply pay for the account right from the start intead of after the trial period.
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WarpDrive
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Posted - 2006.01.02 21:41:00 -
[188]
Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd
What if those accounts are 14day trial accounts ?
There are no trail accounts.. most of them are 30d and older, cause they sit in an Apoc or a medium barke...
so training skills are more then 1 month
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Smacky Smack
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Posted - 2006.01.02 22:08:00 -
[189]
Edited by: Smacky Smack on 02/01/2006 22:09:04
Edited by: Smacky Smack on 02/01/2006 22:08:36
- Move all ore, but veld to 0.7 and down.
- Move "low sec" from 0.1 to 0.7
- In .5 - .7 keep concord patrols at gates and stations, so travel wont be affected, but allow players engage in belts freely
- In 0.8 - 1.0 re-design belts by moving the roids apart at a great distances and lowering the amount of ore in the roids dramaticaly. (noob operating a frig should have no trouble moving from small roid to another, a barge wont be able to mine for hours from the same spot)
- Lower the security hit for piracy IN THE BELTS and planets, while keeping it high at gates and stations. Concider bringing back "security status gain over time". All this because people are too constrained with security hits to police the macrominers. Yet true ganker pirates dont care and just snipe at gates.
PS
Yeah yeah, I dont have main at the time so what? :)
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Squelch
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Posted - 2006.01.02 22:22:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Dendrin Koljn
2. Assign Mining Rights to NPC corps in high security space - so each NPC corp can only mine in certain 'HOME' systems. Add a pop-up window to let you know your breaking a treaty and you get concorded if you mine.
This is one of the best ideas I've heard yet. Make it 1.0 systems only and the macros will be fighting each other to get to what few roids are available after dt each day.
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Cleric JohnPreston
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Posted - 2006.01.02 23:06:00 -
[191]
wow, could someone make sure a dev see this idea? please !!
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Jennai
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Posted - 2006.01.02 23:11:00 -
[192]
Originally by: WarpDrive
Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd
What if those accounts are 14day trial accounts ?
There are no trail accounts.. most of them are 30d and older, cause they sit in an Apoc or a medium barke...
so training skills are more then 1 month
most are 2-3 month old accounts with barge/apoc, but there's still a few that use trials in ospreys or destroyers.
-------
macro hunters - join channel MacroIntel
macro miner killboard: www.anti-macro.com |
Arcsine
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Posted - 2006.01.02 23:12:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Squelch
Originally by: Dendrin Koljn
2. Assign Mining Rights to NPC corps in high security space - so each NPC corp can only mine in certain 'HOME' systems. Add a pop-up window to let you know your breaking a treaty and you get concorded if you mine.
This is one of the best ideas I've heard yet. Make it 1.0 systems only and the macros will be fighting each other to get to what few roids are available after dt each day.
OMG. CCP, hire this guy. What a FRICKING GREAT IDEA!
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Chorllte Decie
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Posted - 2006.01.02 23:30:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Darkdashing
Originally by: Teri Ipeh
Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin
Heya folks,
Is there anybody here that can shed some light as to why it's so hard to punish these guys? Thier macro is predictable and thier behavior is so rediculously abnormal that I dont see why they are not banned right away.
Like right now I've spotted macrominers with the following namenclature
Player1
Player2
Player3
Player4
Player5
Player6
Player7
Player8
Player9
Player10
Hauler1
Hauler2
Hauler3
Hauler4
Hauler5
Can someone, maybe even a CCP person shed some light on this? I'm doing what I can about them but in the overall scheme of things I'm maybe only setting them a day or two back.
15 accounts @ $14.95/month each account.
You want to know why CCP don't jump on the case right away?
$225.00 per month in the CCP coffers is why.
You don't really expect them to do anything but take their time with banning so many accounts when it does nothing but cost them money?
The law-abiding playerbase and the good of the game come second to the almighty dollar I'm afraid. It's about time people stopped expecting too much from a business like CCP and realised the bottom line for any company is how much profit they can make each month - and not how macromining scumbags screw the game over for the rest of us.
qft
QFT seen it all before in many games..
CCP ive seen these macro miners .. there over 3 months old..
and in large barges ice mining and strip mining belts ROFL Kiron.. might wanna take another look at those Macro miners Creation date :) oh and btw why should we petition these guys anymore??? youve just said it yourself you dont have the Resources :)
maybe if we shared the server and have 2 teams contanly working on Issues of the playerbase would be alot better.. (just a suggestion)
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Posmart
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Posted - 2006.01.03 02:00:00 -
[195]
Edited by: Posmart on 03/01/2006 02:05:20
Edited by: Posmart on 03/01/2006 02:04:17
Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin
$225.00 per month in the CCP coffers is why.
You don't really expect them to do anything but take their time with banning so many accounts when it does nothing but cost them money?
qfbs more like
A real player is worth 10 or 100 times a macro account.
A real player:
- buys other stuff off CCP like merchandise and magazines.
- does free marketing for CCP by telling their friends about it and raving about it on websites and other media.
- enhances the game experience for other real players, and helps new players not to quit due to the complexity of it.
- has goals and ambitions beyond making real money, and won't quit if they can't turn a real-life profit.
If mined-out noob-system belts cause new players to quit it costs CCP far more than any revenue from farmers.
However much money macro accounts provide, CCP would still want to ban them, because macroers work against the long-term future of the game. Farmers have other games to move on to, CCP don't.
If you were a major shareholder in CCP, would you say
"Oh, good job on skimming a few extra $ off those Chinese farmers" or would you say
"Some games get messed up by farmers. I don't know if this game is one of them, but I don't want to take that chance. What are you doing to eliminate this risk and protect my investment?".
Well, we're all sort-of investors, because we've all invested time and money in the game (although we won't see a financial return).
Macroers are so desperately easy to spot for players. There are several give-away criteria, you can be fairly certain in 5 or 10 minutes. These accounts when reported should be investigated on the spot and suspended. They should be presumed guilty and forced to prove they are innocent.
If it comes to it, and a few innocents get banned too, well so what? Eve's a pretty exclusive club already, its brand has prestige, it's worth protecting (here's another prestige brand - "Blizzard" - 'nuff said really). Exclusivity, integrity, these are unique selling points too for a game that has bugger all traditional marketing. Eve's growing faster than CCP can keep up with anyway. If you want to play you got to contribute more than just 15 accounts mining in 1.0, macro or no macro.
Wow I am such a hard-line authoritarian when it comes to this game!
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Saul Thrace
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Posted - 2006.01.03 02:44:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Arcsine
Assign Mining Rights to NPC corps in high security space - so each NPC corp can only mine in certain 'HOME' systems. Add a pop-up window to let you know your breaking a treaty and you get concorded if you mine.
Probably the only valid anti-macro miner idea I've ever read on those threads (and I've read a lot). How do we mod that up? ;)
--
Saul Thrace |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.01.03 03:10:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Torquemanda Corteaz
Doesn't repeating yourself so many times drive you mad jacques?
Nah, he uses a macro to auto-respond to threads about macro mining.
Originally by: Asnar
Bush:but most importantly wtf was my carrier doing without support?
Admiral: well sorry mr president, guess you're not that stupid after all.....
Bush: /me shoots Admiral
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Tasuric Orka
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Posted - 2006.01.03 03:30:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Saul Thrace
Originally by: Arcsine
Assign Mining Rights to NPC corps in high security space - so each NPC corp can only mine in certain 'HOME' systems. Add a pop-up window to let you know your breaking a treaty and you get concorded if you mine.
Probably the only valid anti-macro miner idea I've ever read on those threads (and I've read a lot). How do we mod that up? ;)
This is the best idea i have seen so far.
macrominers will..
1: start their own corp, in which case <1000 players are ready to wardeck and DESTROY mm's on sight. (i wish they would..)
2: mine in noob systems, competition amongst the mm's would drive 60% of the mm's straight out of EVE, the other 40 could be mopped up by ccp volounteers.
One thing however, there should be more missions/ways for a noob to make some isk when they start out. Ore would be scarce when the mm's get forced into noob systems.(one other thing, players in a non-npc corp shouldnt be able to mine in newby systems).
I cant see anything wrong with this suggestion.. i want to kiss the person who thought this up, brilliant.
CCP, ovah here!
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Zavernus Hamarabi
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Posted - 2006.01.03 03:40:00 -
[199]
<ccp> Hi
<ebay> hullo
<ccp> see those auctions selling isk to our copyrighted game?
<ebay> yup
<ccp> we own eve you know..
<ebay> yup
<ccp> stop hosting auctions to our game or we'll wtfbbq you in court
Tada!
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Kamui Shiro
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Posted - 2006.01.03 04:01:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Zavernus Hamarabi
<ccp> Hi
<ebay> hullo
<ccp> see those auctions selling isk to our copyrighted game?
<ebay> yup
<ccp> we own eve you know..
<ebay> yup
<ccp> stop hosting auctions to our game or we'll wtfbbq you in court
Tada!
Hehe i prefer are more realistic reply.
<ccp> stop hosting auctions to our game or we'll wtfbbq you in court
<ebay> go ahead and eat me! We'll just move service to asia where you cant touch us.
Going to court with e-bay will be like the music industry trying to get rid of file sharers. You cant win.
Macro miners exploit the system of the game to avoid having their operations disrupted. So i have to agree that to stop them, ccp has only to change some mechanics of how the npc corps work. Be it forcing out people into other NPC corps that can be war dec'ed or the new idea of having mining limited to specific areas for every npc corp.
The solution can only be attained from changing the mechanics of the game not from any court case, banning of accounts, or software to detect macro's. Just make it harder for them to keep their operations going. Take the pvp servers of other games. You will see that even if those games are populated there are little to no bots in them because players could kill them on sight. While the other semi-pvp servers have bots all over the safe areas.
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Tasuric Orka
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Posted - 2006.01.03 04:16:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Dendrin Koljn
2. Assign Mining Rights to NPC corps in high security space - so each NPC corp can only mine in certain 'HOME' systems. Add a pop-up window to let you know your breaking a treaty and you get concorded if you mine.
Dendrin Koljn for president! :D
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Fallout2man
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Posted - 2006.01.03 04:52:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Zavernus Hamarabi
<ccp> Hi
<ebay> hullo
<ccp> see those auctions selling isk to our copyrighted game?
<ebay> yup
<ccp> we own eve you know..
<ebay> yup
<ccp> stop hosting auctions to our game or we'll wtfbbq you in court
Tada!
The conversation would actually be more like
<ebay> hello *doesn't bother to see who it is*
<ccp> We want info on auctions *insert long list of eve auctions here*
<ebay> Here you go! we also threw in their social security numbers, now don't do anything illegal with it.
<ccp> thanks!
<ebay> bye!
Ebay will give info to anyone seeming like a corp or the government without even asking, there is no privacy on ebay.
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Corrd
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Posted - 2006.01.03 07:19:00 -
[203]
Or CCP could just give someone an account with infinite isk and minerals so they can sell them on ebay cheaper than the farmers. They tell CCP the details of the buyer, CCP uses ban stick. Because CCP bans the buyer, the mins don't enter the economy and the farmers can't compete with infinite amount of free mins and isk used to undercut them every time. That'll fix the problem from both ends.
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Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2006.01.03 08:04:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Dendrin Koljn
2. Assign Mining Rights to NPC corps in high security space - so each NPC corp can only mine in certain 'HOME' systems. Add a pop-up window to let you know your breaking a treaty and you get concorded if you mine.
That would have to be very restricting to work. Like, NPC corp only mines in 0.7+ within its own sovereignty.
It would kill noobcorp mining too, but I doubt many people will care.
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Amaii Templ
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Posted - 2006.01.03 08:15:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Corrd
Or CCP could just give someone an account with infinite isk and minerals so they can sell them on ebay cheaper than the farmers. They tell CCP the details of the buyer, CCP uses ban stick. Because CCP bans the buyer, the mins don't enter the economy and the farmers can't compete with infinite amount of free mins and isk used to undercut them every time. That'll fix the problem from both ends.
.... BEST IDEA I'VE SEEN IN AGES.
Corrd FTW!
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Aenigma
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Posted - 2006.01.03 08:47:00 -
[206]
Though the mining restrictions for 0.7 is a good idea, there are some other things you can think about.
Given that:
a) Macrominers are mostly in NPC-corps
b) The more advanced (the ones having most impact) fly barges and battleships.
c) The more advanced are over a month old.
d) They have a controller behind an account, who monitors the macro.
CCP should:
a) Prevent members of NPC corps from using battleships, tech II modules and mining barges.
b) Should impound isk penalties to money transfer, item transfer and market transfers done by NPC corp members over a month old. Make this scale with time spend in the NPC corp.
c) Implement the idea of restricting mining in NPC corps to only parts of space.
This has the following consequences:
a) More NPC corp members will form corporations or join existing ones.
b) The Macrominers in NPC corps cannot do ice mining or serious stripmining.
c) Macrominers in NPC corps can't easily liquidate assets.
d) The Macrominers will have to join/create a corp to get the big isk.
e) By creating a corp they become vulnerable to war decs.
f) They will lose more ships by starting a corp.
g) They make less money either way.
h) Professional miners can make more isk.
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Kim Chee
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Posted - 2006.01.03 09:44:00 -
[207]
Well, most macro-miner groups either have their ships gang'd together, or are in the same starter-corp. They seldom mine alone, but usually have at least a couple of ships that mine together and warp together to the next location.
How about making some of those concord ships actually patrol the belts? ;)
If several characters in the same gang/corp are all sitting in one place for some amount of time, a concord ship could warp in and announce themselves in Local. If they don't get any response after a reasonable amount of time (10 minutes?), they could lock target on them and send them a private message.
If still no response after another 10 minutes, well... boom. 
The only people who ever AFK mine are n00bs in industrial ships (I still have a Miner II on my Bestower), so exclude solo industrial ships from the criteria.
Vila Restal: I'm entitled to my opinion.
Kerr Avon: It is your assumption that we are entitled to it as well that is irritating.
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Martin Gore
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Posted - 2006.01.03 09:48:00 -
[208]
Actually thats a damn good idea. You could send a mini war declaration...if they don't respond within 10 mins then you can attack them.
If they were not macro mining then they would be able to respond. If they are a controller watching 10 pc's then I doubt if they would be able to keep up with this.
So you send a mini war dec to a miner you suspect, he has 10 mins to reply. If he doesn't ...boooooooommm
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Santiac
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Posted - 2006.01.03 10:49:00 -
[209]
Edited by: Santiac on 03/01/2006 10:49:41
Originally by: Corrd
Or CCP could just give someone an account with infinite isk and minerals so they can sell them on ebay cheaper than the farmers. They tell CCP the details of the buyer, CCP uses ban stick. Because CCP bans the buyer, the mins don't enter the economy and the farmers can't compete with infinite amount of free mins and isk used to undercut them every time. That'll fix the problem from both ends.
Seeing as CCP does not have the manpower to do this on their own, could it be an idea to form a new branch of their player driven organisations, specifically designed to encourage those who want to foil naughty eBay'ers and MM's, to do so? :)
For example, all transactions from those accounts given the infinite isk & mins would at all times be tracked, logged and checked.
The accounts that buy from these, would gain the isk or mins to prevent legal issues, but would be deactivated, either permanently or for a good deal of time.
The main problems with this is, you have to trust the organisation members completely to not begrudge anyone to the extent that they will wrongfully point out players, from spite or whatnot.
And secondly there is also the issue of the money involved with the transaction, should CCP take it from the eBay'ers, ban their accounts for doing so, and use the money on improving the game? Should they pay back the eBay'ers after they've been banned? Or is there a third option not involving accepting the money in the first place, but somehow still gain proof of the RL transaction?
For this i can only see barely plausible solutions, for example a player who thought himself wrongfully banned would file a petition to the organisation, where a senior (someone with the "CCP Approved" stamp) would then go through the logs - both in-game and financial - and then re-evaluate the player claiming to be innocent.
Now correct me if this is not possible, but for the sake of it, lets say the organisation had a common account where only "CCP approved" staff could withdraw money from, for repaying eBay'ers if this is chosen as a plausbile conduct, this would generate proof that someone had indeed paid real life money for in-game items, acting as a sa***uard for "law abiding" players, but seeing as the eBay'ers would get their money back eventually, would not clash with any legal issues either.
Again correct me if i'm wrong :)
________________________________________
<insert clever/witty comment here>
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Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2006.01.03 18:33:00 -
[210]
You can never hope to solve the problem using out-of-game methods. No MMO ever has. The solution has to come from the environment itself. EVE's game mechanics have to be changed to discourage ISK farming. Restricting NPC corp mining to a limited portion of own-sovereignty high-sec is a great example of this thinking. So are whatever methods people can come up with to penalise AFKness in belts.
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