Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
301
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 03:42:00 -
[121] - Quote
Quote:Do you have reading comprehension issues or are you just bad at Eve?
Go ahead and tell me how you can manage to predict an angular entry to make sure you're in smartbomb range of someone warping in. And especially how the server's session change interruption can totally let you get more than one or two shots off. :P
Quote:Show me a non-covops fit that will get you through a normal border camp. Show me a reliable indicator (other than an alt) to look at before jumping. I'm honestly fascinated by how deluded your supposedly superior Eve knowledge is.
DotLan.
Quote:I'm arguing against the status quo because everyone (except the border gate campers) agrees that border gate camps are lame and have no solo counter-play. I'm also arguing because your logic jumped out at me as farcically bad, but it's getting very tiresome battling an unarmed opponent. I don't know how you griefers do it all day.
Ah yeah, because you totally have data and playerbase surveys and stuff to back that statement up, right? I mean, if you were going to claim to represent the playerbase as a whole against the evil, horrible gankers, you'd actually make sure you were, instead of just going off of a vocal and incredibly whiny minority of players on the forums that only the vast minority of players actually use, right?
Yep, you go right ahead and declare victory and graciously bow out. Suits me fine. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Ari Laveran
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
61
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 03:43:00 -
[122] - Quote
Look at your map, are there more than five pilots in space in that low sec entry point if yes also check ships destroyed in the last hour if it is not a FW system and that number is also higher than 5 it might be a camp.
Go around, not very hard at most low sec borders. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2519
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 03:47:00 -
[123] - Quote
Quote: Low-Security Space is VERY hostile towards new players.
~FTFY
Title FLAGGED: MISLEADING
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
301
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 03:48:00 -
[124] - Quote
Ari Laveran wrote:Look at your map, are there more than five pilots in space in that low sec entry point if yes also check ships destroyed in the last hour if it is not a FW system and that number is also higher than 5 it might be a camp.
Go around, not very hard at most low sec borders.
Yeah, but you see, they are arguing that "not being stupid" isn't enough of an appropriate counter.
It's tricky to argue with someone like that, because they have already convinced themselves that they are right, and because they are floating an emotional appeal and not a logical argument, if you disagree you must be a psycho who loves making people cry irl and kills kittens and hates everyone around them because no one loves them because they're so horrible.
It's not like, you know, we're playing a video game here. Go figure. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Lugia3
Pirates Incorporated
430
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 03:50:00 -
[125] - Quote
EvE Online is a harsh game. If you don't like it, get out. The game isn't going to change because you're too soft to deal with it. Yarr |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
311
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 03:51:00 -
[126] - Quote
I don't like things that are hard either...and I want to fly a titan...today...CCP please stop being so skill hostile towards us new players. |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
39
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 03:56:00 -
[127] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:Do you have reading comprehension issues or are you just bad at Eve? Go ahead and tell me how you can manage to predict an angular entry to make sure you're in smartbomb range of someone warping in. And especially how the server's session change interruption can totally let you get more than one or two shots off. :P Geometry too huuuurd. In your own words, the people who pull off basic pvp maneuvers deserve their killmails; you don't.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:Show me a non-covops fit that will get you through a normal border camp. Show me a reliable indicator (other than an alt) to look at before jumping. I'm honestly fascinated by how deluded your supposedly superior Eve knowledge is.
DotLan.
DotLan is both an anti-gate-camp fit and tells you who's on the other side of a gate? Wow! learn something new everyday.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Ah yeah, because you totally have data and playerbase surveys and stuff to back that statement up, right? I mean, if you were going to claim to represent the playerbase as a whole against the evil, horrible gankers, you'd actually make sure you were, instead of just going off of a vocal and incredibly whiny minority of players on the forums that only the vast minority of players actually use, right?
Yep, you go right ahead and declare victory and graciously bow out. Suits me fine.
That's your concluding argument? That people like getting insta-popped w/o counter-play? |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
39
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 04:00:00 -
[128] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: if you disagree you must be a psycho who loves making people cry irl and kills kittens and hates everyone around them because no one loves them because they're so horrible.
Your griefer tears are painful to watch; stop please. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
301
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 04:05:00 -
[129] - Quote
Quote:DotLan is both an anti-gate-camp fit and tells you who's on the other side of a gate? Wow! learn something new everyday.
DotLan is how you find out if there are people there, yeah. It lets you weigh the risk by giving you data to act upon. But I refuse to answer a false dichotomy posed to me, especially one like "post a gatecamp proof fit or GTFO!". Don't you get it yet, that there is no guarantee of safety in EVE? No, you will never be able to totally prevent them from killing you based on your ship, you can only improve your safety as a result of your actions.
Quote: That's your concluding argument? That people like getting insta-popped w/o counter-play?
But there is counter play. If you aren't being stupid. It's relatively easy to avoid and counter and thereby increase your own margin of safety.
You either:
Don't want to have to go to the trouble, in which case, entitlement mentality, and you don't deserve it.
Can't actually get your head around them, in which case, nothing should be balanced around the lowest common denominator of intelligence.
Or you just don't want to listen, in which case, why should your ego get to dictate anyone else's gameplay? Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Mark Rain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 04:06:00 -
[130] - Quote
Stay in high-sec until you trained up....problem solved.
Winter is coming. |
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
301
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 04:07:00 -
[131] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: if you disagree you must be a psycho who loves making people cry irl and kills kittens and hates everyone around them because no one loves them because they're so horrible. Your griefer tears are painful to watch; stop please.
Why? Especially considering how much butthurt I am exacting from you alone in this thread. Your mindset of entitlement to safety has become clear for all to see, and it gets funnier with every page. The other guys at my work are laughing themselves silly. So by all means, let's continue. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
39
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 04:16:00 -
[132] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:But I refuse to answer a false dichotomy posed to me, especially one like "post a gatecamp proof fit or GTFO!".
You're the one who said the motivation was not wanting to "fit" for lowsec. Similarly, I never said "gatecamp proof", I said a normal border gatecamp.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Don't you get it yet, that there is no guarantee of safety in EVE? No, you will never be able to totally prevent them from killing you based on your ship, you can only improve your safety as a result of your actions.
No one suggested a safety guarantee. They suggested making your job harder and the new player's job easier.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cvdgPlEKW9k/TRq7nI9HNjI/AAAAAAAABlA/ETl9RrJu0kU/s1600/Straw_Man.jpg
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Don't want to have to go to the trouble, in which case, entitlement mentality, and you don't deserve it.
Can't actually get your head around them, in which case, nothing should be balanced around the lowest common denominator of intelligence.
Or you just don't want to listen, in which case, why should your ego get to dictate anyone else's gameplay?
You don't want to have to go to the trouble of doing more than lazily sitting on a gate. If you're feeling really adventurous, you might switch systems occasionally to abuse the dotlan delay.
See how this works? |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
39
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 04:19:00 -
[133] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:The other guys at my work are laughing themselves silly. So by all means, let's continue.
Out of idle curiosity, do you not understand how pathetic this sounds? |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
301
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 04:22:00 -
[134] - Quote
Quote:No one suggested a safety guarantee. They suggested making your job harder and the new player's job easier.
Ah, so no one suggested a safety guarantee? So the "30 sec of total immunity" in the OP was what? Sarcasm?
To hell with the new player. Life is easier than ever before for new players, and the "30 seconds immunity" suggestion would have the cute little side effect of making all the whiners who can't manage to alt-tab for the time it takes to check DotLan finally have the total immunity they've been crying for for years.
You do not get to be immune to other people. and new players don't get special treatment. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
301
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 04:31:00 -
[135] - Quote
So, let's reiterate here.
Change is being asked for. The only argument being presented is either "I hate gatecamps!", or "gatecamps are unfair to new players!".
Anyone have anything that actually matters? Because the first is just whining, and the second? New players are bound to get burned in one way or another, it's the nature of the game. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
39
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 04:34:00 -
[136] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:No one suggested a safety guarantee. They suggested making your job harder and the new player's job easier.
Ah, so no one suggested a safety guarantee? So the "30 sec of total immunity" in the OP was what? Sarcasm?
Do you not understand that immunity from your particular braindead tactic is not a safety guarantee? Oh, I forgot: smartbombs, bubbles, scouts, and chasing are all too huuuurd.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:To hell with the new player. Life is easier than ever before for new players,
Inb4 "back in my day" rage.
Eve has gotten easier for everyone mate. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
301
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 04:37:00 -
[137] - Quote
Quote:Do you not understand that immunity from your particular braindead tactic is not a safety guarantee? Oh, I forgot: smartbombs, bubbles, scouts, and chasing are all too huuuurd.
^^
Thinks you can use bubbles in lowsec. Suggests that chasing is viable.
Argues about PvP like he has a clue.
I need to make a meme about you, dude.
[Edit: Oh, and the brain dead tactic isn't camping people. The brain dead tactic is coming onto the forums to complain, instead of altering your behavior to compensate. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
39
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 04:42:00 -
[138] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Thinks you can use bubbles in lowsec. Suggests that chasing is viable.
You do know that hisec borders null in places right? Besides, you literally said bubbles were too hard to be considered: "Bubbles and grid-fu aside(and if you can pull those tricks off, you deserve that killmail)"
Quote:Argues about PvP like he has a clue.
Agues about PVP like hisec ganking and gate camps are PVP. |
Alex Grison
Grison Industrial Group
468
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 04:46:00 -
[139] - Quote
Space doesn't space people. people space space people. http://www.twitter.com/Alex__Grison |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
279
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 04:46:00 -
[140] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:
Show me a non-covops fit that will get you through a normal border camp. Show me a reliable indicator (other than an alt) to look at before jumping. I'm honestly fascinated by how deluded your supposedly superior Eve knowledge is.
Covops aren't that safe in a gate camp either, ever see what happens you you hit a Kerses with four remote sensor boosters? You can lock a cov-ops before it can recloak, and you can do it for lachesis ranges. A lot of them even make it easier stabbing like crazy which blows up the sig so that they definately aren't getting back into cloak
I've broken more camps with AB frigates than with cov-ops, either way you are rolling the dice smoking cruisers and battlecruisers is light work. Hope they don't have intercetors
S Byerley wrote: I'm arguing against the status quo because everyone (except the border gate campers) agrees that border gate camps are lame and have no solo counter-play. I'm also arguing because your logic jumped out at me as farcically bad, but it's getting very tiresome battling an unarmed opponent. I don't know how you griefers do it all day.
No counter in solo play? Go four systems over and jump there. With the exception of high/null junctures, getting in and out of low sec is cake. Either that or learn to gate crash.
its not that hard in low-sec, you don't even have to deal with bubbles. |
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
301
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 04:48:00 -
[141] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Thinks you can use bubbles in lowsec. Suggests that chasing is viable. You do know that hisec borders null in places right? Besides, you literally said bubbles were too hard to be considered: "Bubbles and grid-fu aside(and if you can pull those tricks off, you deserve that killmail)" Quote:Argues about PvP like he has a clue. Agues about PVP like hisec ganking and gate camps are PVP.
The entire game is PVP. Anything in which you are pitting yourself against another player is PVP.
See, now we've gotten to the core of your problem. You have the wrong expectations of the game. Ganking is PVP. It's not some asinine honorable duel, if that's what you mean. It's not rolling around asking in local "LF 1v1s!". You do not get a fair fight. Tough luck.
I didn't say they were too hard to be considered. I said, if you are advanced enough to pull off such a thing, then you deserve to get the kill on your foe. It's a good trick. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Fenix Caderu
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 04:52:00 -
[142] - Quote
But...it's low security, as in less security...it's meant to be dangerous. If such a thing existed IRL, it would be just as deadly for inexperienced pilots, if not more. It's human nature. Survival of the fittest. I think it's intended that way in game.
Also, it makes the rewards better for taking the risks. Otherwise, it'd get boring. making more lowsec or resources to go around would spread space too thin. As it is, there are many systems in low/null you pass through that are completely empty. It would make getting fights harder, taking a lot away from PVP.
You can, by the way, jump right into lowsec in a fast frigate. It doesn't take much training. If you know what you're doing, lowsec doesn't have to be such an unfriendly place. You could join a lowsec corp, setup your safe spots, etc. |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
39
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 05:00:00 -
[143] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:See, now we've gotten to the core of your problem. You have the wrong expectations of the game. Ganking is PVP. It's not some asinine honorable duel, if that's what you mean. It's not rolling around asking in local "LF 1v1s!". You do not get a fair fight. Tough luck.
I didn't say they were too hard to be considered. I said, if you are advanced enough to pull off such a thing, then you deserve to get the kill on your foe. It's a good trick.
I wasn't aware I had a problem. I do expect CCP to continue balancing their mechanics around interesting and emergent encounters as it makes the game more fun and makes them more money.
Here's hoping you rage quit if they ever take your newbie camping bottle away. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
276
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 05:05:00 -
[144] - Quote
Skill Training Online wrote:The Problem: Far too many "little of everything" ships piloted by EVE's most valuable sort of player "The Brave Newcomer" are destroyed in low-sec on a daily basis.
The problem is universal: it's the PvP concept in itself.
People PvP to simply gank. It's the mindset of mouthbreathers.
Whenever on game forums someone mentions EvE, I make it a point to mention this. Think of WoW with level 90s preying on level 30s and believing they all have level 90s to come back to PvP. They don't care if it was truly a new player, they do it because it's easy kills. So games like EvE isn't truly about welcoming new players, because if new players got their breaks, there's less ganking (and scamming and worse -- surprised CCP frowns about can flipping and terrorist bombing, when wholesale thieving is allowed by policy. How can one be cruel to new players, while the "white collar" crime is not? Picking and chosing morals?). Then the guys who are thrown into lockers in real life need some "revenge" will go ape, because they can't dish out payback via pixels.
So when folks look back and wonder why their game has 500,000 players (including all the multiple accounts), and still puzzled why it's 500,000 players that need to even multibox at gatecamps to be "kewl", they still haven't learned that killing the young kills having players left over for the next generation. With PC gaming slipping more each year and these older MMOs aren't porting their games for consoles, it's a slow drip death sentence.
CCP is more welcoming in keeping it's veteran PC gamers with IsBox, than alluring players for the first time to enjoy the franchise for a lifetime (it's how Blizzard is #1, they make sure to get every new player and make it enjoyable to stay for years).
Mouthbreathers don't look at the future, they live for the moment. The result is the mess that is masqueraded as "PvP". "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
301
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 05:06:00 -
[145] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:See, now we've gotten to the core of your problem. You have the wrong expectations of the game. Ganking is PVP. It's not some asinine honorable duel, if that's what you mean. It's not rolling around asking in local "LF 1v1s!". You do not get a fair fight. Tough luck.
I didn't say they were too hard to be considered. I said, if you are advanced enough to pull off such a thing, then you deserve to get the kill on your foe. It's a good trick. I wasn't aware I had a problem. I do expect CCP to continue balancing their mechanics around interesting and emergent encounters as it makes the game more fun and makes them more money. Here's hoping you rage quit if they ever take your newbie camping bottle away.
Nah, no point in ragequtting. I love this game, in all it's glory. I'll just have to get better at bumping people undocking instead, since that is the second major point of vulnerability a player has(the first is gates, btw). Just fit me up a stabber, knock people 40-50km off the undock, and gank them that way instead. And, hilariously, all without lowering my sec status.
We will always find a way to harvest tears. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
280
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 05:06:00 -
[146] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:See, now we've gotten to the core of your problem. You have the wrong expectations of the game. Ganking is PVP. It's not some asinine honorable duel, if that's what you mean. It's not rolling around asking in local "LF 1v1s!". You do not get a fair fight. Tough luck.
I didn't say they were too hard to be considered. I said, if you are advanced enough to pull off such a thing, then you deserve to get the kill on your foe. It's a good trick. I wasn't aware I had a problem. I do expect CCP to continue balancing their mechanics around interesting and emergent encounters as it makes the game more fun and makes them more money. Here's hoping you rage quit if they ever take your newbie camping bottle away.
So again, what is so hard about going around a gate camp? You learn the places to be on your toes in pretty quick, and if you have like any friends, you should have an intel channel. There used to be intel channels run by the anti-pirate corps or role players in most of the regions I ran around, and that was basically Metropolis to Essence.
Even then, its pretty rare that you run into a a camp with real snap lockers, most have I have seen are looking for speed tanking FW plexes and aren't really set up to kill a ship with a real tank before it can get back to the gate. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2519
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 05:13:00 -
[147] - Quote
for the record i one time blew up a nub in a badger 1 in lowsec running transport mission. Others were running cap parts so couldn't let him go. I gave him 10x ship and mission value. That's pretty nub friendly imho. everyone else fair game...
|
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
280
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 05:20:00 -
[148] - Quote
Gogela wrote:for the record i one time blew up a nub in a badger 1 in lowsec running transport mission. Others were running cap parts so couldn't let him go. I gave him 10x ship and mission value. That's pretty nub friendly imho. everyone else fair game...
I've paid a couple noobies after I killed them and noticed that they were on trial time. |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
435
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 06:07:00 -
[149] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Skill Training Online wrote:The Problem: Far too many "little of everything" ships piloted by EVE's most valuable sort of player "The Brave Newcomer" are destroyed in low-sec on a daily basis. The problem is universal: it's the PvP concept in itself. People PvP to simply gank. It's the mindset of mouthbreathers. Whenever on game forums someone mentions EvE, I make it a point to mention this. Think of WoW with level 90s preying on level 30s and believing they all have level 90s to come back to PvP. They don't care if it was truly a new player, they do it because it's easy kills. So games like EvE isn't truly about welcoming new players, because if new players got their breaks, there's less ganking (and scamming and worse -- surprised CCP frowns about can flipping and terrorist bombing, when wholesale thieving is allowed by policy. How can one be cruel to new players, while the "white collar" crime is not? Picking and chosing morals?). Then the guys who are thrown into lockers in real life need some "revenge" will go ape, because they can't dish out payback via pixels. So when folks look back and wonder why their game has 500,000 players (including all the multiple accounts), and still puzzled why it's 500,000 players that need to even multibox at gatecamps to be "kewl", they still haven't learned that killing the young kills having players left over for the next generation. With PC gaming slipping more each year and these older MMOs aren't porting their games for consoles, it's a slow drip death sentence. CCP is more welcoming in keeping it's veteran PC gamers with IsBox, than alluring players for the first time to enjoy the franchise for a lifetime (it's how Blizzard is #1, they make sure to get every new player and make it enjoyable to stay for years). Mouthbreathers don't look at the future, they live for the moment. The result is the mess that is masqueraded as "PvP".
First you compared Wow to Eve which was a fallacy in and of itself. Also People PvP for many different reasons. One being power and control over certain regions of space, defending Pos's, Poco's assets, territory, valuable trade routes or high traffic areas etc.
Ganks are a very narrow form of "pvp" and simply a target of such combat can range from a new player in a shiny new BC to a veteran in a travel fit Titan or Super falling prey to a bigger force. Point being is "ganks" aren't the issue rather it's the perception of the victim itself.
Eve requires you to think, to be constantly on guard and aware at all times. Such is the immersion factor and one of the greater qualities of the game that keep people playing. Simply calling pvp players "mouthbreathers" only invalidates what redeeming points in whatever argument you were trying to make.
You forget we were ALL new players at one point and all have fallen victim in some form or fashion. It's just an element of the game you accept. There's an old saying "It's not IF you will lose your ship but WHEN." such holds true today.
Also there are some of us here whom take great pride in helping newer players myself included. I even began a guide aiding new players in dabbling in Piracy and even giving tips to protect against being ganked, scammed etc. So the resources are there.
You just have to have the initiative and the intellect to seek such material and digest it. |
Caldari Citizen 20120308
State War Academy Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 06:22:00 -
[150] - Quote
Skill Training Online wrote:The Problem: #3 Entering low-sec is very difficult This leads us to two paths Increase the Size of Low-sec gates so they are not as easily camped Create a Jump timer where folks changing "sec" get a 30 second invulnerability timer to warp off, making camping inter-sec gates profitless.
Entering low sec isn't difficult. Last time I checked, there is a thing called a map. Use this and go to statistics > average pilots in space. Find an area that isn't as populated.
I do agree that more content (pve and pvp) should be added.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |