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Martin Gore
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Posted - 2005.11.27 10:39:00 -
[1]
Ok, it seems to me that the worst problem with macro minining is the ice belts. Just look in the Jita Ice belts 99% macro mining.
The problem with ice, is that it doesn't deplete, or move and you don't need to jet can mine as you can fill your cargo ...warp to st...unload...warp back to bm for another load. I've seen this trend happening now.
My solution is to take ice belts out of 0.4 and up. Only have Npc's sell it in empire. Ice is needed a lot due to all the pos's so is an everlasting supply of isk for the macro miners. No risk ..no work needed.
Take the ice away form empire and you would have messed up their macro mining ops. Let Npc's sell it and you won't hurt the pos people.
Only let it be mined in 0.3 and below, try mining ice there macro heads he he.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.27 10:44:00 -
[2]
just allow us to shoot em quite simple
any characters over 1 month old anytime they go into a NPC corp they get 80% tax rate (will force players into player corps or just stuff up MMs anyway_
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Martin Gore
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Posted - 2005.11.27 10:46:00 -
[3]
I think this would be a good solution as it only harms macro miners, no one mines ice these days.
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Hellspawn01
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Posted - 2005.11.27 10:47:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Martin Gore
I think this would be a good solution as it only harms macro miners, no one mines ice these days.
Why are they mining only ice then? There must be some value left.
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BlogÖ |
Scyrdein
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Posted - 2005.11.27 10:47:00 -
[5]
Originally by: sonofollo
just allow us to shoot em quite simple
any characters over 1 month old anytime they go into a NPC corp they get 80% tax rate (will force players into player corps or just stuff up MMs anyway_
What is a problem for macrominer to create it`s own corp, huh? :)
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.27 10:59:00 -
[6]
well tbh quite a few have created player corps (im about to issue a war dec on one ive been tracking for some time) and they have moved onto mining kernite in 0.6 - 0.7 (isogen is the big money value) as i said all NPC corp members that cant be dec'd on after 1 month of player players should be in a player corp anyway (CCP multiplayer angle) those that arent automatic 80% corp tax and if someone comes out of a corp same thing unitl they create or join another 80% NPC Corp tax
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Martin Gore
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Posted - 2005.11.27 11:03:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Originally by: Martin Gore
I think this would be a good solution as it only harms macro miners, no one mines ice these days.
Why are they mining only ice then? There must be some value left.
I mean't no real person does...only machine macro's. 
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.27 11:10:00 -
[8]
well no real players mine ice in jita do they (the profit margin on such basic ice just ain there for most players)
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kurtz abraham
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Posted - 2005.11.27 11:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Martin Gore
Ok, it seems to me that the worst problem with macro minining is the ice belts. Just look in the Jita Ice belts 99% macro mining.
The problem with ice, is that it doesn't deplete, or move and you don't need to jet can mine as you can fill your cargo ...warp to st...unload...warp back to bm for another load. I've seen this trend happening now.
My solution is to take ice belts out of 0.4 and up. Only have Npc's sell it in empire. Ice is needed a lot due to all the pos's so is an everlasting supply of isk for the macro miners. No risk ..no work needed.
Take the ice away form empire and you would have messed up their macro mining ops. Let Npc's sell it and you won't hurt the pos people.
Only let it be mined in 0.3 and below, try mining ice there macro heads he he.
I mine ice in empire, LOTS of ice. I am however very lucky not to be affected by macros as I fill monthly contracts which include delivery. The Macros that are mining ice in empire are the problem why nobody mines ice for the market these days, getting rid of ice in empire is not the solution, getting rid of the macros that mine ice is. Get rid of them... the price of ice will go back to the rate it used to be at and real players will start mining ice again, as it is it is much more profitable to mine common ores, I am afraid to say though that with the rapid rise of isk farmers and macros mining ore it will soon be more profitable to go rat hunting in empire belts. I am sure CCP are doing all they can to get rid of macros without resorting to draconian solutions such as this, I can however understand your anger that made you resort to thinking up this solution as every time I log in these days I see these people and nearly every system you pass through has random text string names in the local window.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.27 11:14:00 -
[10]
well lets hope those that are behind these nasty little bots continue to have their bots take any can in range (esp with the take and replace method that will become useful in RMR) then just shooting em up.
This should at leats disrupt their invasion of eve hehe
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.27 11:16:00 -
[11]
THE REAL SOLUTION IS PUT ALL TRAIL NON PAYING ACCOUNTS ON A SCALED DOWN SERVER IE MAXIMUM 500 SYSTEMS KEEP ALL THE 15000 TRIAL ACCOUNTS THERE AND WHEN THEY ARE READY TO PAY TO PLAY THEN THEY CAN RESTART AS NOOBS ON TQ.
THIS WILL HAVE SEVERAL RELIEF ELEMENTS - THOSE MACRO MINERS WILL HAVE TO PAY MONTHLY ACCOUNT FEES REDUCING THE PROFITABILITY AND AT LEAST PUTTING MONEY IN SHOULD THEY CHOOSE TO RUN THE RISK OF GETTING CAUGHT
THE TRIAL SERVER COULD HAVE A) BE FREE BUT LIMITED TO DESTROYERS AND B) MAKE SURE THAT NO ITEMS CAN BE TRANSFERRED TO TQ C) PLAYERS THAT WANT TO ONPLAY WILL HAVE TO START AGAIN AND PAY UPFRONT
THIS IS A MUCH MORE MANDAINE SOLUTION THAT WILL HELP.
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Galk
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Posted - 2005.11.27 11:20:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Galk on 27/11/2005 11:22:48
Originally by: sonofollo
any characters over 1 month old anytime they go into a NPC corp they get 80% tax rate (will force players into player corps or just stuff up MMs anyway_
This will only hurt inocent players.
Your suggestion is very stupid, and ccp will never addopt that.
I don't belive i actualy need to give you a reply as to why, only to point it out.
edit*
And your last reply is just as short sighted, 'trial server' that negates 90% of the games content... OK......
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When they asked me if i knew you, id smile and say you were a friend of mine.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.27 11:25:00 -
[13]
Ok well there is a big problem with alts anyway any player with corp 1 skill can start their own corp - please list the problems u speak of (ok alt spies well they would have to be in a corp or inactive) im in favour of nerfing alts 100% but that wont happen so a 80% corp tax for players older than 1 month old in NPC corps
The alternative totally seperate to help deal with macro miners and mining sweatshops - farmers is to remove all trial accounts to a seperate free server of 500 systems maximum (im sure CCP could just rejig a few nodes) this would reduce empire lag to just paying players on tq.
trail accounts 100% seperate (items characters and ISK) cannot be trasnferred over to tq players can try the game if they like they can pay to play on the real deal after 14 days (quite reasonable suggestion i think many other MMOs do it) and then at least the macro miners or the ppl behind them would be paying $15 US a month for each character thereby cutting their motivation via trial accoutns in mining and also alt usage in that regard
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Serpensis
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Posted - 2005.11.27 11:27:00 -
[14]
I dropped by Jita last night in a shuttle to check out the prices, and the price on white glaze has fallen to 50% in less than 2 weeks.
How can dedicated miners compete with that? I have no idea, and it made me wonder why I care to play this game.
Right now, the only ones damaged by the macroing and Ebay sales, are those who play the game by the rules. Sad state or affairs this is.
How the flagging is going to help agains macrominers, I cant see. The hauler/miner will have to open a can that does not belong to them, and actually confirm the pop-up dialogbox, which will most likely never happen. If these players have to rewrite the macro to compensate for the changes with RMR, I seriously doubt they will rewrite so it makes them vulnerable to this simple move.
As a proffessional miner by trade, I want to obliterate these guys.
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"Fear accompanies the possibility of death,
calm sheperds its certainty." |
Galk
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Posted - 2005.11.27 11:37:00 -
[15]
Not everybody in a npc corp is a) an alt b) a macro user.
Shallow perception if you belive that they are, ccp know that also, why your idea is totaly wrong, and it goes nowhere.
The problem is people exploiting trial accounts, kinda tricky because stoping of the current system and moving trial accounts to one side and placing restrictions you mention will degrade the experience of the perfectly valid trial user.
That id imagine is ccp's current dilemma.
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When they asked me if i knew you, id smile and say you were a friend of mine.
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boubou bzh
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Posted - 2005.11.27 11:58:00 -
[16]
about your 80% taxe rate....
they just have to give the mining product to another guy, and on this way, they are not affected.. so, not a good way, i think.
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carpe diem / no more playing for some times.
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Martin Gore
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Posted - 2005.11.27 12:11:00 -
[17]
I know a few real ice miners would lose out, but who mines ice for profit anyway.... it's dropped in price so much latly that it's not worth it.
I would say a huge amount of ebay source money comes from ice mining and the increase in need for pos fuel. The amount of ice miners has gone up a silly amount the past month. Kill the ice miners...kill a lot of the macro miners profit.
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Ralitge boyter
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Posted - 2005.11.27 12:13:00 -
[18]
How about a combination of the following two solutions.
Make the EVE client identify it self with a unique hash created from several system variables, this way when a user is banned this computer cannot be used again by macro users. (should help CCP a lot) Sure some internet cafe's might get upset but then again they would simply be told to police their systems better or risk a permanent ban (3 strikes and you are out)
Then CCP should make a new group NOT GM's who have no GM powers but are able to do the analisis for the GM's and when they reach the conclusion a user is really using a macro these users call in a GM to make a final check of the colected data and decide upon the faith of the susspected account.
This way we have several solutions one the GM's have more time on their hands and do not need to look at macro miners until they have a 99% sure macro miner on their hands, and instead of banning the IP or something stupid like that the computers that are used get banned. This will make the macro miners life very very difficult indeed as they can come back (the 3 strike system) but they are instandly identified as someone who needs to get a little extra attention. Should the user make the same mistake again they get kicked again and after time 3 they simply do not come back anymore.
Of course the macro miners can reinstall EVE but the system variables will stay the same and thus they will stay banned. So they will have to make changes to their computer after every ban this should make them think a few hundred times about the profitibility of macroing in EVE.
Of course the group that can do these checkes needs to be of sufficient size and should be kept in check by the GM's as here the same rules should apply abuse your powers and you get a warning continue to to so and you will be kicked from the group and striped of your powers.
the trail accounts should stay and they should stay on TQ but CCP should make the client identify it self for every PC that way they can simply ban a computer instead of an account.
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Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me. |
Martin Gore
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Posted - 2005.11.27 12:23:00 -
[19]
How would they get pc hardware info though?
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Kharakan
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Posted - 2005.11.27 12:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Scyrdein
Originally by: sonofollo
just allow us to shoot em quite simple
any characters over 1 month old anytime they go into a NPC corp they get 80% tax rate (will force players into player corps or just stuff up MMs anyway_
What is a problem for macrominer to create it`s own corp, huh? :)
Because if a macro mining bunch create their own corp, we can war dec them and pwn them from left to right =D
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.11.27 12:44:00 -
[21]
the problem isnt the macro's but the farming.
if you remove the possibility to use macros, you will simple move the farming from unattended to sweatshop-attended.
No gain.
What you need to tackle is the ability to control more then say 5 accounts at a time. Even when on different pc's.
Wait, that's not possible !
So, you can't remove farming, period.
What you can do, is take away its feeding grounds: isk buyers in the 'illegal' circuit.
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Power to the players !
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Martin Gore
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Posted - 2005.11.27 12:55:00 -
[22]
Ice price has dropped by 50%, macro miners have gone up mining ice buy a LOT, ebay price has fallen a lot. All of this in a month...
Too much of a coincedence??
You can't really run 5 or more accounts actually playing the game properly. So from afk mining ice 23/7 to actually playing game (which they just won't do) will cut macro'ers/sweatshops money buy a huge amount.
It wasn't until ice could be mined and the recent increase in pos's and adding not much being done by ccp to stop it.... that this al became a real problem.
Take away the easy money, and you take away a lot of their isk.
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Martin Gore
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Posted - 2005.11.27 12:59:00 -
[23]
Npc's selling ice I reckon would totally mess up there business. You can't really make a huge amount of money in this game unless you are very good at playing it properly (unless you macro). I doubt if these people would have the patience or will to train up char's for months and months to be able to survive 0.0
I think dev's should try taking ice out of empire belts for a month or 2 to see what happens :) Pos owners won't be hurt as Npc's will sell it like they do robotics. A few ice miners might be hit, but come on ... no one mines ice for profit... unless he he 
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Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2005.11.27 13:09:00 -
[24]
I fully agree, only I would say keep the 0.4 sec ice belts, and remove only 0.5 and up.
There are plenty of real players out there mining ice for their POS all the way down to 0.0. It should all be part of the risks of running POS, as far as I am concerned.
This won't hurt the asteroid macros miners, but on the other hand the number of real players this will hurt, is miniscule.
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.11.27 13:27:00 -
[25]
It wouldn't solve macroing but it sure makes sense. I agree.
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.11.27 13:28:00 -
[26]
Kill everyone, it is the only way to be sure...
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The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Thomus
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Posted - 2005.11.27 13:31:00 -
[27]
cant the ice just be removed from 0.8-1.0, that way, the NPC rats will kill them for us, unless the one guy controlling 20 PCs can shoot them.... :-S
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Tom |
Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2005.11.27 14:05:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Thomus
cant the ice just be removed from 0.8-1.0, that way, the NPC rats will kill them for us, unless the one guy controlling 20 PCs can shoot them.... :-S
They can kill existing NPCs in 0.5+ with ease.
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Gray Carmicheal
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Posted - 2005.11.27 14:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
Originally by: Thomus
cant the ice just be removed from 0.8-1.0, that way, the NPC rats will kill them for us, unless the one guy controlling 20 PCs can shoot them.... :-S
They can kill existing NPCs in 0.5+ with ease.
Or 0.2, like Khabi. We popped a group that was there with a player controlled Tempest "protecting" them. But I think the hauler was way out of region/on it's way back, because someone got that later when it showed up for the bajillions of cans floating in the belt.
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<- Hates Whiners and people with generally crappy attitudes. Does not play well with morons. |
Martin Gore
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Posted - 2005.11.27 15:09:00 -
[30]
Yep there is no need for ice in empire. It won't solve the whole problem but I think it will kill of 60% of macro miners. Good to see some decent ideas rather than the trolls 
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