EVE Search - Ice mining Solution Ebil Macro miners.... I got it....no really I have

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Ice mining Solution Ebil Macro miners.... I got it....no really I have

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Antipodean Minx	Posted - 2005.11.28 10:52:00 - [61] Ice is used for what again? And you can only deploy them where? Remove ice from 0.5 and above security systems.
Kreegor	Posted - 2005.11.28 11:39:00 - [62] Edited by: Kreegor on 28/11/2005 11:42:29 Ive seen loads of micros in retreavers, and they all been trail acounts, they must buy 30 day trail accounts i think, im sure though they can get in barge within 2 weeks not 100% sure though. What about if ccp extended the learning time over 30 days, to get in barge, and bring another minning ship into the game, what you can train for within 2 weeks but cant mine ice, it wont get rid of all the micros, but would help the market lots, withought moving ice belts out of empire.
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.11.28 13:21:00 - [63] Originally by: Martin Gore Ok, it seems to me that the worst problem with macro minining is the ice belts. Just look in the Jita Ice belts 99% macro mining. The problem with ice, is that it doesn't deplete, or move and you don't need to jet can mine as you can fill your cargo ...warp to st...unload...warp back to bm for another load. I've seen this trend happening now. My solution is to take ice belts out of 0.4 and up. Only have Npc's sell it in empire. Ice is needed a lot due to all the pos's so is an everlasting supply of isk for the macro miners. No risk ..no work needed. Take the ice away form empire and you would have messed up their macro mining ops. Let Npc's sell it and you won't hurt the pos people. Only let it be mined in 0.3 and below, try mining ice there macro heads he he. Just kill them and stop trying to come up with deranged methods of hobbling legit' miners. JUST KILL THEM!! A Good Deed is nothing more than a Bad Deed in need of a Drink
Biometric	Posted - 2005.11.28 13:44:00 - [64] ok Im dumb here most likely, but why can't CCP just tell eBay that they are breaking the law by allowing the sale of in game items on their website and instruct them to stop? If its against the EULA then those people selling are breaking the law, ergo eBay condone this action.... If i need to get a clue, let me know what it is please....
Serpensis	Posted - 2005.11.28 13:50:00 - [65] Originally by: Antipodean Minx Remove ice from 0.5 and above security systems. How intelligent, move all the barges down to the nice men in .4 and below, so they can buy the miners ice cheap, and then blow up their barge to take their iceminers afterwards. Brilliant solution -- "Fear accompanies the possibility of death, calm sheperds its certainty."
Flyyn	Posted - 2005.11.28 13:58:00 - [66] Ok lets end this thread. ALL non-Macro miners please send $0.25 extra to CCP This should make up $957.00 that CCP will lose from just ONE macro minning crew, if they banned them. ANOTHER thought. one account...$15.95 2nd account...$16.00 3rd account...$17.00 4th account...$18.00 5th account...you get the idea. Another thought... Make an alt. log on...look at corp chat... Pull up information on characters in "Newbie corp". See how uber they are to you bunch of noobs There are people in these "newbie corps" That are active players, that have never...ever...joined a player corp. So kicking out a 2.5 year old character from a newbie corp wont work. He/she has already made up their minds, and dont want to play with the rest of us... Another thought... Do what CCP has already good and leagal....Petition them...and rob them blind...
Dragodrone	Posted - 2005.11.28 14:16:00 - [67] Originally by: sonofollo Ok well there is a big problem with alts anyway any player with corp 1 skill can start their own corp - please list the problems u speak of (ok alt spies well they would have to be in a corp or inactive) im in favour of nerfing alts 100% but that wont happen so a 80% corp tax for players older than 1 month old in NPC corps The alternative totally seperate to help deal with macro miners and mining sweatshops - farmers is to remove all trial accounts to a seperate free server of 500 systems maximum (im sure CCP could just rejig a few nodes) this would reduce empire lag to just paying players on tq. trail accounts 100% seperate (items characters and ISK) cannot be trasnferred over to tq players can try the game if they like they can pay to play on the real deal after 14 days (quite reasonable suggestion i think many other MMOs do it) and then at least the macro miners or the ppl behind them would be paying $15 US a month for each character thereby cutting their motivation via trial accoutns in mining and also alt usage in that regard I'm a 2 men corporation. Me and my alt. The only thing why i made my own corp is that i can use a corp hangar and put every stuff in it and both chars have full access to it. For macrominers i think not the game has to change - cut the root. CCP has to code some routines in our client version, which detects such actions not taken by a human - which isn't really easy like understanding the english i'm writing here. Just some thoughts... Maybe cut the 'accounts per creditcard' to max 3. Which normal person plays eve with more than 3 accounts at the same time? So there you'll have a basic indicator for a possible macrominer. A tool which searches for blacklisted automation tools in the list of running processes (even if the're hiding) and prevents eve from playing. That way you don't have to recruit masses of hungry, dehydrated people searching for signatures in databases in a small, dark room... Yes i know.. that sound euphoric (check for spelling please and mail me ingame) but it's just a thought i had last night while get podded in egghelende... this name ... egg -> pod... sounds similar... maybe there is a bible code for that.. let me check on this. <logout>
pk blinder	Posted - 2005.11.28 14:35:00 - [68] Erm, I think everyone would if they could! Kill them I mean. But if they are in noob corp, you can't touch them unless you suicide attack. TBH, if there is a market for isk, then we will attract those who will farm it and sell it, by any method. It just so happens that ice mining is the no brainer choice for macro isk making and suffers the most from it. So what do we want to do? Eradicate ebay isk? You need to tackle that from the supply and demand end.I suggest making ice reducable just like roids which will force macroers to move on and away from highway systems, which will reduce their profitability. From the demand end? I would tackle the POS fuel needs (too high IMO - 15 hours game play time in a Coveter per week ice mining for a Large POS!), drop more Tech2 BPOs and increase insurance for high end ships. PK
David Corbett	Posted - 2005.11.28 14:42:00 - [69] Hehe, I'd support moving ice to 0.0... But that's because I'm an ebil alliance PvPer. Oh, speaking of that, why don't we get as many whines about those anymoer? Come on, I miss the attention!
gfldex	Posted - 2005.11.28 14:45:00 - [70] Some points to this thread :) - force players to a non NPC corp Macro users would end with n accounts in n corps. How many wars can you file at the same time befor you run out of money? - forcing ice miners to low sec Getting new gear is a question of ISK and ISK is the least problem of a ISK seller. As somebody else stated befor here on the forum ISK seller may even create their own allicance and kick sane players out. Keep in mind they work the same time as they play. - limit accounts per credit card 3 Words: Game Time Card - talk to eBay A lot companies tried and all failed. It simply wont work. - add anti cheat tool on client side Well ... it will not work. I played a lot CoD and every time Punk Buster got a update my kill count hit the roof. Two days later ppl went back to normal business as ****er (they are not hacker!) updated their cheats. Maybe the new office CCP moved to (/me gives the CCP a big hug because moving a company is a pain i the beep*) will get use some in game police. Spawning NPCs near afk miners 4tw. -- $ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill\|lost my ship\|gank\|gate camp\|Verone/;'
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.11.28 14:49:00 - [71] Originally by: pk blinder Erm, I think everyone would if they could! Kill them I mean. But if they are in noob corp, you can't touch them unless you suicide attack. TBH, if there is a market for isk, then we will attract those who will farm it and sell it, by any method. It just so happens that ice mining is the no brainer choice for macro isk making and suffers the most from it. So what do we want to do? Eradicate ebay isk? You need to tackle that from the supply and demand end.I suggest making ice reducable just like roids which will force macroers to move on and away from highway systems, which will reduce their profitability. From the demand end? I would tackle the POS fuel needs (too high IMO - 15 hours game play time in a Coveter per week ice mining for a Large POS!), drop more Tech2 BPOs and increase insurance for high end ships. PK 3 Kessies with minimal skills can take down a Mining Barge, before Concord ganks you. Total cost is about 200k each, not counting all the stuff you recover - yours and the Mining barges... Sometime you can even make a profit A Good Deed is nothing more than a Bad Deed in need of a Drink
gfldex	Posted - 2005.11.28 14:55:00 - [72] One more point :) I consult a corp filled with noobs atm and those young guys didn't know that buying ISK is not allowed. One of them nearly commited this crime because the person who tried to sell some ISK told him it is legal. He is totaly new to MMORPGs so i had to tell him what macros are too. (I had to tell him what NPC stands for. :-\| ) Would you ban him? And please dont refere to the EULA. Nobody is reading a legal document beside loyers. Young EvE players are unaducated and not aware of what is forbidden and allowed. They even think that Pirates are doing something wrong too! -- $ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill\|lost my ship\|gank\|gate camp\|Verone/;'
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.11.28 15:05:00 - [73] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 28/11/2005 15:06:04 The burden of learning the provisions of the law (in this case eula) lies with the individual. Or: you better read the eula and if unsure ask a gm. How anyone, even without prior MMO expeirence, could simply assume buying isk for cash is legal and allowed without even enough doubt to go look for more information is beyond me. edit: so yes, I'd ban them allright. It's a temporary ban on first offense anyway. _______________________________________________ Power to the players !
Martin Gore	Posted - 2005.11.28 15:08:00 - [74] I still think moving Ice to npc sales and 0.4 and below would solve a lot of problems.
Orrin Danestarr	Posted - 2005.11.28 17:15:00 - [75] Edited by: Orrin Danestarr on 28/11/2005 17:19:20 I had a thought that would make it difficult... move ice out to .5 space and below. All space adjacent to low security systems has a possibility of spawning tougher than normal rats depending what system is next to it... i.e. getting cruiser rat spawns in .5 and .6 systems adjacent to a .3. It would have a 2 fold effect. 1, it would make mining a lot more dynamic and require more thought. 2. With ice still in .5 space, its still possible to mine in empire space but the rats will discourage both ice and ore macro miners, as stringer rat spawns will tear through the defenses that these macro'ers put upa nd leave a nice loot drop for anyone in the system to casually loot from. But its only my idea. "Imagination is the key that unlocks the door." - ME
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.11.28 18:26:00 - [76] Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 28/11/2005 18:26:43 My latest thoughts... From what I have been hearing, a combat macro has no problem tearing through a low sec cruiser spawn. And it makes sense. They macro mine in 0.6 and 0.5 easily enough, and the guys I have seen were in Feroxes and Apocs. It's not much work to fit assault launchers to a Ferox and nothing in 0.4 except a player will touch them. In 0.3, they'd lose to a faction cruiser spawn every time, but that's a rare operating expense. Here is a synthesis of the more reasonable solutions so far... *Taking ice belts out of 0.5+* will remove one source of unlimited wealth. This will harm only a negligible number of players, as ice is a component of low sec and 0.0 industry. Its presence in safe Empire is an anomaly. Ice prices will rebound and justly reward those numerous players already taking the low-sec risk and mining it. And it would be about time. Regarding the macro miners willing to brave low-sec... *RMR will introduce battlecruiser spawns into 0.3 and below, as well as two tiers of faction spawns and NPC EW capability.* This could not have come at a better time! A player confident enough to be belt-ratting in 0.3 and below should be no stranger to cap drains, sensor dampers, tracking disruptors, target-jamming and the like. For a macro, this is one hell of a steep learning curve, as their defense is static. Why are their weapons suddenly ineffective? Nothing but precious skillpoints diverted away from industry will save them, and the coding required for combat maneuvres is probably beyond them. *The key to making this defence effective, is ensuring that EW-capable NPC spawns have a high probability of occurence in 0.3 and below!* CCP, I hope you are listening. If you are not planning full-spectrum EW to be a common feature of < 0.3 NPCs, you really need to change your code. Any macros still foolishly venturing into low sec will therefore find that only 0.4 contains NPCs easy enough to defend against, or else require constant supervision by a real human flying a combat character in a large properly-fitted ship. I am sure the player-pirates of EVE would rise to the challenge. The macros will of course adapt and refocus their efforts onto high-sec asteroid belts. This is where the next phase of changes comes in - *introduction of belt rats into 0.9, and removal of ALL belts from 1.0.* AFK mining in indys will die out, but few will mourn that loss. *The new mining environment will be this - no mining anywhere without NPC spawns.* This will mean that all macro miners in EVE will be forced to use combat macros. For those that currently do not, this will mean an added inconvenience. Now what I suggest to any CCP guys reading this thread, is this - don't look for one single brilliant idea to solve the problem. It will never happen. *You need to implement each measure collated in this post as a bare minimum, no later in January, just to START work on the problem.* Note that we are still left with a massive gap in the strategy, if we are taking the above-named measures as a given: - How to address combat-macro-capable macro miners in high-sec Empire? I feel like such an idiot for not spotting the obvious flaw that another player has pointed out. If the noobcorps kick players over a month old, we will have one-man macro corps. Corp 12345, Ticker [12345] etc, and with war dec fees at 2m per week, and several thousand offending accounts, that's a lot of money for the community to stump up. It really would hurt the newbies more than the macros. So it's back to the drawing board about what to do with high sec.
Reiisha	Posted - 2005.11.28 20:00:00 - [77] Originally by: Cmdr Sy I feel like such an idiot for not spotting the obvious flaw that another player has pointed out. If the noobcorps kick players over a month old, we will have one-man macro corps. Corp 12345, Ticker [12345] etc, and with war dec fees at 2m per week, and several thousand offending accounts, that's a lot of money for the community to stump up. It really would hurt the newbies more than the macros. So it's back to the drawing board about what to do with high sec. Leave 1.0 belts (for new players, there ARE people who seriously want to learn how to play the game, and also mine), introduce belt rats in up to 0.9 i agree with. However, you could simply only have scordite and veldspar, maybe even only veldspar in 1.0 (this already seems to be the case though). Something to add: Can flagging. It will be put in soon, BUT: only flag people who steal from non-npc corp cans.. This way, macro miners will have to live with 2 things: a) Their ore can get stolen if they stay in an npc corp. b) They can simply be war decced on if NOT in an npc corp. I'd say, let people pop npc corp cans or just steal the ore from them, instead of flagging them. Most npc corp players are either advanced lvl 4 runners or otherwise working on stuff not involving mining, or they simply use secure cans and/or cargo mining instead of can mining, which isn't really a problem. So, if they're in an npc corp, pop their cans repeatedly, and if they're not, wardec. This would require having to leave can flagging for npc corp cans out tho, which should not really be a problem for anyone. Save Darwinia!
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.11.28 20:39:00 - [78] Originally by: Reiisha Leave 1.0 belts (for new players, there ARE people who seriously want to learn how to play the game, and also mine), introduce belt rats in up to 0.9 i agree with. However, you could simply only have scordite and veldspar, maybe even only veldspar in 1.0 (this already seems to be the case though). Sorry, but I do not believe this is an option. Giving players an environment in which they can mine without NPC attack, is letting the macros win. On my first day in EVE, I was ninja-mining Kernite with a frigate in a 0.6. There is neither a need nor an excuse for a rat-free mining environment. EVE has grown and evolved to the extent that it has become a target for professional currency farmers, and that means some demands previously made by NPC corps are no longer realistic. This is a concession they will have to make, otherwise all other measures are negated. In any case, a trip to any 1.0 asteroid belt will show you what's left for newbies to practice their mining on. Nothing. The macros destroy the belts the moment they begin to regenerate.
Martin Gore	Posted - 2005.11.28 21:38:00 - [79] A well rounded post, cheers for sorting through all the ideas. I hope ccp are listening.
Xascor	Posted - 2005.11.29 00:32:00 - [80] I like Reiisha's can flagging idea. That would at least encourage the macro miners to make their own corp which could be war-decced. It might lead to some newbie griefing but I doubt it'd be too bad. I'm still a newbie and belong to a newbie corp. I plan on staying there for around 3 months. Figure that way I'm less a burden on a player corp. It also gives me time to learn about the player corps. When I join a guild/clan/corp I don't ever plan to leave. Kicking me out to fend for myself or making me pay 80% taxes would force me to join a player corp before I feel I'm ready. Not good. As for the 1.0/0.9 mining issues. I have AFK mined a few times while at work. Netted virtually nothing (about 500k a day). I'd give it up (well...I already have )to allow rats in the asteroid fields. Rats wouldn't hurt macro miners too much though. I've seen them in lower security zones as well. This game is all about risk vs reward. Why should anyone be rewarded for a no risk mining venture like 0.9 and 1.0 is right now? Make a new type of ore (Noobite?) that can't be refined and only be sold to an NPC for a set rate. Lock the amount able to be mined/sold at like a few 100k ISK per month per account. It only spawns in 1.0. Make the only miners that can mine it the Miner I or the Basic Miner. The low yield will still be enough for newbies like me to get our first few frigates equipped but not enough to allow belt stripping to be a problem. If making a new ore type is an issue, change Veldspar to only allow Miner I or the Basic Miner. Should help a lot. Newbies could make money from the Trit and veterans could still get plenty of Trit from Scordite. Macro miners wouldn't be able to make hardly anything because of the low yield rate of the miners. Maybe I shouldn't be participating in this discussion because I'm such a newbie, but I see the same miners in my home system every time I log in with all the signs of being macroers. Belts that were full are always stripped now by the time I get on to play. No risk/high reward. Not good. Please shoot holes in everything I just said. That's what discussions are for. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ <---Is a newbie. Probably working on
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.11.29 00:53:00 - [81] Originally by: Xascor Maybe I shouldn't be participating in this discussion because I'm such a newbie, but I see the same miners in my home system every time I log in with all the signs of being macroers. Belts that were full are always stripped now by the time I get on to play. No risk/high reward. Not good. Please shoot holes in everything I just said. That's what discussions are for. Far from it. Veterans deal with economic abstractions, and we need more constructive input from the people at the receiving end of this issue. At the moment too many people assume what NPC corp residents think, and this imposes limits on the discussion. The fact that you are willing to tolerate belt rats and the demise of AFK hauler mining, is a valauble contribution in itself. It shows that there is a healthy attitude to risk in that community, and some sort of compromise is possible.
Martin Gore	Posted - 2005.11.29 07:15:00 - [82] A mate of mine just joined an anti macro corp called "Marco Miner Murdering Association" yes... with the spelling mistake. They took out a load of macro mining barges, I'll be joining them tonight :)
Lygos	Posted - 2005.11.29 07:30:00 - [83] I vote we get rid of ice entirely. Just omit it from every equation. POS don't need fuel. Targetting Sig Variance -- "Everything I love is combustible."
Tuatha Moonstalker	Posted - 2005.11.29 08:21:00 - [84] I am a newbie to Eve. I however am not a newbie to MMORPGs. This very same problem (farmers/ebayers) is rampant in other games as well. Similar solutions to those that have been mentioned here have been tried and failed. Making life a bit harder for the macroers yes but mostly hurting new players or old time honest players. Newbies need to have a relativly safe place to get themselves started in whatever path they decide on. The idea of a new roid type that processes in to something like noobite is actually kind of a good idea. Fill the 1.0 sectors with that and make it only sellable to NPCs. The roid can only be mined with the basic miner, and make the basic miner only mountable on the rookie ship and maybe frigates. .9 and lower have rat spawns. However I want to say something about that too. As a new player in a frigate that only has 2 highspots trying to get enough mining done to afford a bigger ship is not as easy as you all seem to think. Even with 1 miner and 1 gun you get a spawn of 3 rats and chances are you going to get blown up or have to warp out. Remember as a newbie, especially one that used the Miner template and going for a miner career, is going to suck really bad in combat. So think on things like that before going for the extreme. Moving Ice to .4 or lower on the surface sounds pretty good, but again you are taking out a whole slew of potential honest miners that would like to mine ice but have non pvp skills. Putting a limit on the ice in Empire would probably be a better soloution.. like making them pop like normal roids for instance. So far I have yet to run in to a macroer in Eve... again I am a newbie so thats not saying much. And looking at the skills needed for a strip miner and barge... at least with my attributes is not something that is going to happen in 14 days so I don't understand that one. If I am wrong and it is possible to get in to a barge with a strip miner in under 14 days then just up the difficulty so that to get a barge its going to take you at least 30 days. That whole tax idea on newbie corps is just .... I can't even say it. I have been talking with people in the npc corp I am in and some of them have been in that corp for over a year. They don't want to be in an npc corp for various reasons. Personally I don't really want to be in a player corp anytime soon either. If I am online and want to do a group thing its not hard to get together a party when the npc corp you are in has over 300 people online who are just as pumped up as you are. With any problem you have to look at it from all angles... not just yours. Look at it from Old players, New players, and also the Company. CCP has to walk a very fine line here and no one seems to understand that... which seems to be the case with any MMO. The Company has to look at the situation from all sides not just one. I'm going to shut up now that I have written a book as my first post.
Martin Gore	Posted - 2005.11.29 08:56:00 - [85] Nooby ore that only noobie's can mine, that's a great idea :) have it so that you can only mine it if your less tan 2 weeks old.
Tauruz	Posted - 2005.11.29 10:27:00 - [86] Last I heard, CCP was planning to build the macro miners their own shard
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.11.29 10:51:00 - [87] good ideas all round the 80% NPC corp tax afer 1 month would be the biggest deterent and ..... push players into other corps as CCP want
britishfish	Posted - 2005.11.29 11:10:00 - [88] Remove ice from 0.5 and above sound` like teh best plan. and like someone in a previous post said. shouldn`t mining for ice in 0.4 and bellow be apart of the owning of a POS.
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.11.29 11:17:00 - [89] one small problem CCP are introducing POS into up to 0.7 systems - i think the reporting system continues to be the best as well as NPC corp tax after 1 month of 80% - and moving trial accounts to a seperate free server (and making sure they cannot be trasnferred to TQ without a) restarting and b) no items or ISK can be moved. Will encourage ISK farmers to also pay their monthly subscription And further still but unlikley remove alts
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2005.11.29 11:22:00 - [90] Ollo, do you pay attention to the threads in which you post your so called replies at all ? There will be no measures against npc corp members, period. Oveur said as much. So unless you can come up with a good idea for a change, why don't you try posting less ...

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.