ROFL. Seriously, on the floor laughing.

A CNR does 900+ REAL dps to 90km+

ROFL Seriously, tell me why I would use a mach now over the CNR or the domi?

It's got terribad range now and using barrage on anything except angels is a joke.
A domi does 850+ REAL dps to 90km+
A CNR does 900+ REAL dps to 90km+

Mach fights in falloff and at perfect skills and implants it has 8+93km range using barrage and 1001 DPS using the most expensive implants possible.

This means that when it fights at an equal 90km it does around 700 DPS with explosive ammunition ONLY whereas the other 2 can change freely between any damage type.

While you're flying around like a moron at 700m/s to get within reasonable range to the npcs I'm sitting at the warp in blapping everything

To be fair, if I spent on a TFI what that mach costs, it'd outdamage at Mach at just about everything past about 30km. It's within a few DPS of your hail values at longer ranges, with selectable damage.

However my point stands - horses for courses (for example, that TFI cant move without losing a lot of DPS - its basically a giant sentry). These days, it's better to have a stable of ships, rather than rely on just one.

It must be a reading comprehension thing, or possibly a failure to use available tools, so I will do the work and see if it helps. This is why I use a Mach.

My Mach with my skills and implants.
Auto-cannons and a set of 4 guards
Hail-1597 DPS -4km Optimal, 46km Falloff
EMP- 1456 DPS -4km Optimal, 62km Falloff
Fusion- 1456 DPS -4km Optimal, 62km Falloff
Phased Plasma- 1456 DPS -4km Optimal, 62km Falloff

Artillery and a set of 4 Guards (Or whatever is appropriate)
Quake-1174 DPS -19km Optimal, 113km Falloff
EMP-1161 DPS -39km Optimal, 113km Falloff
Fusion-1161 DPS -39km Optimal, 113km Falloff
Phased Plasma-1161 DPS -39km Optimal , 113km Falloff

Tracking speed script changes Arties to 35km and 92km, and Auto-cannons to 3.5km and 50km

Add to those numbers the added benefit that youGÇÖre not flying a potato, and yes anytime you need to hit something on the move the 'approach' button works wonders ,especially to get the transversal to show a string of 0.00001

yes cause using 24km optimal gardes is going to absolutely wondrous for your applied DPS in a real situation

Please, try and get your numbers on EFT higher, it's extremely amusing.

That's why I stated ''Or whatever is appropriate' Add to that I rarely set drones out, but as you are discussing imaginary numbers, might as well throw all the numbers out there.

It should be noted that after three years of uninterrupted skill training and 73 mil SP, I have finished all the damage and drones skills to 5, and the Core and Targeting skills to elite, these numbers will not be available to anyone that is looking to get into the same ship this week. Unless they had it already, in witch case they wouldn't be asking in the forums for ship advice, they would be giving that advice.

That's why I stated ''Or whatever is appropriate' Add to that I rarely set drones out, but as you are discussing imaginary numbers, might as well throw all the numbers out there.

It should be noted that after three years of uninterrupted skill training and 73 mil SP, I have finished all the damage and drones skills to 5, and the Core and Targeting skills to elite, these numbers will not be available to anyone that is looking to get into the same ship this week. Unless they had it already, in witch case they wouldn't be asking in the forums for ship advice, they would be giving that advice.

I'm not at perfect skills yet for it but not too far either. The mach is just heavily overrated now, especially with the recent changes to the ships I have been talking about. It still is a great ship and I'd be stupid not to acknowledge that but I just cringe a little bit in every "what ship for level 4s" thread everyone and their mother just defaults to "machariel" and it's simply not true anymore.

Hi
Assuming you have the right skills and isk what would be the best level 4 security mission running ship?
By best I mean fastest. I want to get the missions done as fast as possible.

I dual box Machs, two screens makes life simple, for instance Angel Extrav yesterday in 12 minutes including bonus room. Pulsed the XL booster 3 times cause the red shield annoys me :)

5 rooms of an Extravaganza in 12 minutes? I call bullsh!te.

ROFL Seriously, tell me why I would use a mach now over the CNR or the domi?

It's got terribad range now and using barrage on anything except angels is a joke.
A domi does 850+ REAL dps to 90km+
A CNR does 900+ REAL dps to 90km+

Mach fights in falloff and at perfect skills and implants it has 8+93km range using barrage and 1001 DPS using the most expensive implants possible.

This means that when it fights at an equal 90km it does around 700 DPS with explosive ammunition ONLY whereas the other 2 can change freely between any damage type.

While you're flying around like a moron at 700m/s to get within reasonable range to the npcs I'm sitting at the warp in blapping everything

Because I have used all 3 and the Mach is the fastest out of the 3. It is significantly faster than the Dominix. No mission requires me to fight at 90KM. People who understand the methodology simply pop the triggers first instead of last and pull the farther spawns with a TP while shooting the closer spawns. That coupled with long range sentry drones create a much better damage projection than the Dominix and CNR. I have tested it both on PYFA and actual application over and over. Have you?

Because I have used all 3 and the Mach is the fastest out of the 3. It is significantly faster than the Dominix. No mission requires me to fight at 90KM. People who understand the methodology simply pop the triggers first instead of last and pull the farther spawns with a TP while shooting the closer spawns. That coupled with long range sentry drones create a much better damage projection than the Dominix and CNR. I have tested it both on PYFA and actual application over and over. Have you?

No mission requires you to fight at 90km but doesnt mean you shouldnt if you are able to.

Why would I spend 20 seconds flying towards something when I can shoot it from where I stand?

Your method of shooting triggers first is all fine and dandy, but unfortunately the rats that spawn 70, 90, 110km out dont magically appear within range after they aggro, most rats fly at under 400m/s apart from some frigates and it takes a significant amount of time for them to get within feasible range of the mach even if you're flying toward them.

Furthermore since rats don't always spawn in one nice big blob, they often spawn opposite ends of the deadspace area meaning that if you fly towards one group then you have to spend extra time flaying BACK IN THE OTHER DIRECTION to either get to the gate or the other group.

You've obviously never flown the dominix since odyssey and if you have you've been doing it wrong.

Yes, you should not shoot at targets 90km away if other targets are closer no matter what ship you are in. There is no ship that has 100% projection at all ranges.

I dont spend any time burning down at all so you are comparing apples to oranges.

The rats that spawn within 70k catch as much damage from my Mach as they do from your Domi. Its not Magic, its damage projection.

The Blockade is the only mission worth running that has rats spawn at opposite ends. I finish the entire mission in one bounty tick. I would love to see a Dominix do that. Love it.

Flying a Domi when you have a Mach IS doing it wrong.

how on earth does your mach do the same damage as my domi at 70k?

Even so, given the Cruise Missile buff, the missile battleships overhaul and the Dominix re-bonusing, I would want to see completion times for the various hulls to see whether the difference is significant or not.

Cypher Jones don't bother, Tsukino Stareine is convinced that she has the perfect boat just like we are convinced we have the perfect boat. Only difference is I agree with you and she agrees with herself.

In the last hour I have completed Mordus Headhunters, Gone Berzerk, Buzz Kill and Damsel in distress.. but my Mach doesn't work against anything but angels,

leave crazy to crazy they only drag you in they never join you.

I didn't care for how slow the Nightmare is and always dealing with cap problems.
I hate how short range the Vindicator is and rails just suck.
The Rattlesnake and all other Cruise/Torp BS's always felt like shooting from a POS.
A Mach feels light and quick, does massive damage and slips through a storm of rats like Leon.

ok ill rephrase: go do a sansha, serpentis or guristas mission and tell me how good your completions times are when you're TDed, damped or jammed :)

Because I'm a rookie and don't know how to counter.

Thanks for playing, I concede Mr Gore. You invented the internets and the Dominix is king.

5 rooms of an Extravaganza in 12 minutes? I call bullsh!te.

12 minutes sounds doable to me, if he blows up the buildings and stops the spawns. That or he actually does the mission with 2 Machs.

I'd be surprised if he actually killed EVERYTHING with one Mach though in 12 minutes. That would be truly epic if you could do that and if true I'm retraining for a Mach ASAP.