like, completely killing everything?

pirate faction BS are the best. machariel, vindi, nightmare and rattlesnake i believe

Machariel is still one of the best.
Thanks to MWD and Falloff bonus it has a nice damage projection.

Cruise missiles boats are catching up though, of they haven't done it already.

Actually I've heard battle cruisers are faster at running the level4s, because battle ships use large guns and its hard for the large guns to take down the smaller targets.

Actually I've heard battle cruisers are faster at running the level4s, because battle ships use large guns and its hard for the large guns to take down the smaller targets.

Machariel is still one of the best.
Thanks to MWD and Falloff bonus it has a nice damage projection.

Cruise missiles boats are catching up though, of they haven't done it already.

just to add the capability quickly, train Drones IV and Scout Drone Operation to III or IV

4 T1 light drones strictly for killing web and point frigates is much more effective than using main guns for the same purpose. for missioning, the cost of T2 drones make them impractical.

Actually I've heard battle cruisers are faster at running the level4s, because battle ships use large guns and its hard for the large guns to take down the smaller targets.

I dual box Machs, two screens makes life simple, for instance Angel Extrav yesterday in 12 minutes including bonus room. Pulsed the XL booster 3 times cause the red shield annoys me :)

I was wondering who I remember saying they dual box machariels... one artillery, one autocannon... was that you?

Mach is not one of the best. It is the best one.

Rattlesnake by a mile.

You can get 1241 dps and pick the damage type now.

Still has awsome tank and can run a MWD.

Sentries ruin smaller targets with ease.

Anyone still preaching other ships hasn't seen what the changes to cruise missiles on top of drone damage upgrades have done.

Rattlesnake by a mile.

You can get 1241 dps and pick the damage type now.

Still has awsome tank and can run a MWD.

Sentries ruin smaller targets with ease.

Anyone still preaching other ships hasn't seen what the changes to cruise missiles on top of drone damage upgrades have done.

mach is good on paper but especially after the TE nerf and buffs to other ships it's gotten behind things like the CNR and even the regular dominix...

Yes, but... what's the DPS of the MWD Rattlesnake while the MWD is active? =/

Hi
Assuming you have the right skills and isk what would be the best level 4 security mission running ship?
By best I mean fastest. I want to get the missions done as fast as possible.

ROFL. Seriously, on the floor laughing.

A CNR does 900+ REAL dps to 90km+

ROFL Seriously, tell me why I would use a mach now over the CNR or the domi?

It's got terribad range now and using barrage on anything except angels is a joke.
A domi does 850+ REAL dps to 90km+
A CNR does 900+ REAL dps to 90km+

Mach fights in falloff and at perfect skills and implants it has 8+93km range using barrage and 1001 DPS using the most expensive implants possible.

This means that when it fights at an equal 90km it does around 700 DPS with explosive ammunition ONLY whereas the other 2 can change freely between any damage type.

While you're flying around like a moron at 700m/s to get within reasonable range to the npcs I'm sitting at the warp in blapping everything

To be fair, if I spent on a TFI what that mach costs, it'd outdamage at Mach at just about everything past about 30km. It's within a few DPS of your hail values at longer ranges, with selectable damage.

However my point stands - horses for courses (for example, that TFI cant move without losing a lot of DPS - its basically a giant sentry). These days, it's better to have a stable of ships, rather than rely on just one.

It must be a reading comprehension thing, or possibly a failure to use available tools, so I will do the work and see if it helps. This is why I use a Mach.

My Mach with my skills and implants.
Auto-cannons and a set of 4 guards
Hail-1597 DPS -4km Optimal, 46km Falloff
EMP- 1456 DPS -4km Optimal, 62km Falloff
Fusion- 1456 DPS -4km Optimal, 62km Falloff
Phased Plasma- 1456 DPS -4km Optimal, 62km Falloff

Artillery and a set of 4 Guards (Or whatever is appropriate)
Quake-1174 DPS -19km Optimal, 113km Falloff
EMP-1161 DPS -39km Optimal, 113km Falloff
Fusion-1161 DPS -39km Optimal, 113km Falloff
Phased Plasma-1161 DPS -39km Optimal , 113km Falloff

Tracking speed script changes Arties to 35km and 92km, and Auto-cannons to 3.5km and 50km

Add to those numbers the added benefit that youGÇÖre not flying a potato, and yes anytime you need to hit something on the move the 'approach' button works wonders ,especially to get the transversal to show a string of 0.00001

yes cause using 24km optimal gardes is going to absolutely wondrous for your applied DPS in a real situation

Please, try and get your numbers on EFT higher, it's extremely amusing.

That's why I stated ''Or whatever is appropriate' Add to that I rarely set drones out, but as you are discussing imaginary numbers, might as well throw all the numbers out there.

It should be noted that after three years of uninterrupted skill training and 73 mil SP, I have finished all the damage and drones skills to 5, and the Core and Targeting skills to elite, these numbers will not be available to anyone that is looking to get into the same ship this week. Unless they had it already, in witch case they wouldn't be asking in the forums for ship advice, they would be giving that advice.

That's why I stated ''Or whatever is appropriate' Add to that I rarely set drones out, but as you are discussing imaginary numbers, might as well throw all the numbers out there.

It should be noted that after three years of uninterrupted skill training and 73 mil SP, I have finished all the damage and drones skills to 5, and the Core and Targeting skills to elite, these numbers will not be available to anyone that is looking to get into the same ship this week. Unless they had it already, in witch case they wouldn't be asking in the forums for ship advice, they would be giving that advice.

I'm not at perfect skills yet for it but not too far either. The mach is just heavily overrated now, especially with the recent changes to the ships I have been talking about. It still is a great ship and I'd be stupid not to acknowledge that but I just cringe a little bit in every "what ship for level 4s" thread everyone and their mother just defaults to "machariel" and it's simply not true anymore.

Hi
Assuming you have the right skills and isk what would be the best level 4 security mission running ship?
By best I mean fastest. I want to get the missions done as fast as possible.

I dual box Machs, two screens makes life simple, for instance Angel Extrav yesterday in 12 minutes including bonus room. Pulsed the XL booster 3 times cause the red shield annoys me :)

5 rooms of an Extravaganza in 12 minutes? I call bullsh!te.

ROFL Seriously, tell me why I would use a mach now over the CNR or the domi?

It's got terribad range now and using barrage on anything except angels is a joke.
A domi does 850+ REAL dps to 90km+
A CNR does 900+ REAL dps to 90km+

Mach fights in falloff and at perfect skills and implants it has 8+93km range using barrage and 1001 DPS using the most expensive implants possible.

This means that when it fights at an equal 90km it does around 700 DPS with explosive ammunition ONLY whereas the other 2 can change freely between any damage type.

While you're flying around like a moron at 700m/s to get within reasonable range to the npcs I'm sitting at the warp in blapping everything

Because I have used all 3 and the Mach is the fastest out of the 3. It is significantly faster than the Dominix. No mission requires me to fight at 90KM. People who understand the methodology simply pop the triggers first instead of last and pull the farther spawns with a TP while shooting the closer spawns. That coupled with long range sentry drones create a much better damage projection than the Dominix and CNR. I have tested it both on PYFA and actual application over and over. Have you?

Because I have used all 3 and the Mach is the fastest out of the 3. It is significantly faster than the Dominix. No mission requires me to fight at 90KM. People who understand the methodology simply pop the triggers first instead of last and pull the farther spawns with a TP while shooting the closer spawns. That coupled with long range sentry drones create a much better damage projection than the Dominix and CNR. I have tested it both on PYFA and actual application over and over. Have you?

No mission requires you to fight at 90km but doesnt mean you shouldnt if you are able to.

Why would I spend 20 seconds flying towards something when I can shoot it from where I stand?

Your method of shooting triggers first is all fine and dandy, but unfortunately the rats that spawn 70, 90, 110km out dont magically appear within range after they aggro, most rats fly at under 400m/s apart from some frigates and it takes a significant amount of time for them to get within feasible range of the mach even if you're flying toward them.

Furthermore since rats don't always spawn in one nice big blob, they often spawn opposite ends of the deadspace area meaning that if you fly towards one group then you have to spend extra time flaying BACK IN THE OTHER DIRECTION to either get to the gate or the other group.

You've obviously never flown the dominix since odyssey and if you have you've been doing it wrong.

Yes, you should not shoot at targets 90km away if other targets are closer no matter what ship you are in. There is no ship that has 100% projection at all ranges.

I dont spend any time burning down at all so you are comparing apples to oranges.

The rats that spawn within 70k catch as much damage from my Mach as they do from your Domi. Its not Magic, its damage projection.

The Blockade is the only mission worth running that has rats spawn at opposite ends. I finish the entire mission in one bounty tick. I would love to see a Dominix do that. Love it.

Flying a Domi when you have a Mach IS doing it wrong.

how on earth does your mach do the same damage as my domi at 70k?

Even so, given the Cruise Missile buff, the missile battleships overhaul and the Dominix re-bonusing, I would want to see completion times for the various hulls to see whether the difference is significant or not.

Cypher Jones don't bother, Tsukino Stareine is convinced that she has the perfect boat just like we are convinced we have the perfect boat. Only difference is I agree with you and she agrees with herself.

In the last hour I have completed Mordus Headhunters, Gone Berzerk, Buzz Kill and Damsel in distress.. but my Mach doesn't work against anything but angels,

leave crazy to crazy they only drag you in they never join you.

I didn't care for how slow the Nightmare is and always dealing with cap problems.
I hate how short range the Vindicator is and rails just suck.
The Rattlesnake and all other Cruise/Torp BS's always felt like shooting from a POS.
A Mach feels light and quick, does massive damage and slips through a storm of rats like Leon.

ok ill rephrase: go do a sansha, serpentis or guristas mission and tell me how good your completions times are when you're TDed, damped or jammed :)

Because I'm a rookie and don't know how to counter.

Thanks for playing, I concede Mr Gore. You invented the internets and the Dominix is king.

5 rooms of an Extravaganza in 12 minutes? I call bullsh!te.

12 minutes sounds doable to me, if he blows up the buildings and stops the spawns. That or he actually does the mission with 2 Machs.

I'd be surprised if he actually killed EVERYTHING with one Mach though in 12 minutes. That would be truly epic if you could do that and if true I'm retraining for a Mach ASAP.

Well I spent a few hours yesterday trying to get FRAPS and several other Game video recording software on my PC, when I finally got Fraps on I went in search of the mission, but still haven't had it offered yet. When I do I will make a recording so I can stop being called a liar, :)

Dualboxing Machs one 800 autos the other 1400 artillery, always shoot the trigger BS with the arties, usually one shot pop them or so much that it is one or two cycles from the autos to finish it off, yes killed everything in every room including the turrets in room 3? so my friend in his noctis could come through. first gate to last rat took me 12 minutes two days ago, so if I can just get it offered again I record it and have another boring PVE video for everyone to fall asleep watching on YouTube

I'll translate this for people who don't speak fluent moron:

"I can't find a suitable rebuttal so I will draw upon the powers of archaic internet cliches to attempt to throw off anyone reading up until this point so they cannot see how truly foolish I am"

Normal Domi is one of the best, if not the best low SP runner(other contender for this being the Raven.

3 slot tank

blargh

still havent responded on how well your mach performs on a pirate faction that actually has real ewar :)

IDK about Cipher but E-War doesn't affect me, I dualbox when one ship gets Jammed, TD, or Damped my other ship takes out the offender and I continue on.

so wait, all your experience comes from using TWO machariels?

still havent responded on how well your mach performs on a pirate faction that actually has real ewar :)

no it's YOUR consensus that mach is top dog, it isn't any longer and just by the fact you think nightmare performs well against TDing sanshas makes me think you really have no idea what you are talking about.

The fact that you have to sacrifice slots to counter npc ewar makes the mach inferior to the domi, I don't have to replace anything and still retain 800+ dps at much longer ranges than the mach

The only blockade a Domi possibly can't easily do in under 20 minutes is Serp one, I've only ran domi a few times there but did get it under 20 minutes once, out of like, 3 goes or something. Sansha/Blood and esp Angel is very easily done in under 20.

ANd when I said low sp runner ,I also considered low isk aswell, if you can jump into a faction ship right away the obv the normal domi can't get close to competing.

Navy Domi > Normal Domi

A Navy Domi does 1300 to 1400 dps at 50km, depending on your fit. Also produces over 1k dps at 80km with 75% kin 25% therm damage.

No deep falloff and less issues with jamming, tds, etc.

Firstly, I agree the Machariel isn't top dog anymore (although I've been saying this even before the TE nerf). But I will say that I have absolutely no problems against TDing Sanshas with my Tachyon Nightmare. I have solod Blockades with Sanshas no problems. Train some skills.

The Machariel is the best by far against Angels, but against every other type of rats, it is at best a close second. People just haven't realised this yet.

it already does

you do understand that at 50km you ARE going to take more damage than your 3 slot shield tank will allow?

you do understand that at 50km you ARE going to take more damage than your 3 slot shield tank will allow?

i think that you underestimate what 1400 instant dps does to stuff anyway i did fraps some time ago(and post on this forums) very similar domi in action 0 cap mods some tank and it worked then it works now.

You are always free to believe and fly what you want,i was just showing that 1400 dps rail domi isn't unreachable.

"also the claim for 1300 dps at 50km is a little far fetched also, you sure you're not fitting blasters and forgetting their range?"

war potato i am lacking rail spec to l5 and t2 ammo for totally fake paper dps but yes domi hits hard ..very hard.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty certain that's not your DPS.

Undock then deploy drones and look at your dps.

Why has the space you are missioning in not entered into this argument yet?

IMHO it is the critical factor and most likely the problem here.

My alt flies in minnie space - I dont think he has ever had Guristas extravaganze, caldari missions only pop up for the most part when they are caldari + amarr missions, and serpentis missions are perhaps the most prevalent of the not very often missions.

Like I think Cipher said if you are dual boxing EW becomes a non issue for the most part as the EW rats dont seem to split their fire, and hence the other alt just elimiates the problem.

I dual box in minnie high sec, using two mwd ac machs and while I am not getting Godilees times I am finding it unbelievably fast.

But I reckon Tsukino is almost definitely not doing missions in minnie high sec, and is possibly from his responses single boxing as well. So it's really comparing apples to oranges.

Anyway, in response to the original question "What is the best mission ship?" I would answer it is dependant on a number of factors, the most significant of which is which npc faction owns the space you are missioning in.

And since, rightly or wrongly, the most lucrative missions are often perceived to be angel missions you want to maximise your chances of getting them, and being in a ship that is going to cope the best with the missions in that space, then the best mission ship therefore is the mach.

Maybe at lower skill level, in other space, other ships are more appropriate. But for my skill level, and the type of rat I want to get missions to fight, the Mach is an end game mission ship. That isnt to say that its only good angels, in general it copes well with all rat types. When single boxing I do hate ECM missions, but I guess I could just use ECCM if I hated them that much or even refuse them. But generally I didnt and since I have started to dual box again simply wouldnt single box an EW mission. Its just silly.


Just my two cents.

The only advantage navy version has is if engaging anything under 50km which is not very often.

Anyway, in response to the original question "What is the best mission ship?" I would answer it is dependant on a number of factors, the most significant of which is which npc faction owns the space you are missioning in.

Well, lets add some conditions.
-Across all level 4 missions like some weird mission-olympics.
-One ship, one set of rigs, and one character.
-Full mission clears for potential salvaging purposes.
-Decent resilience for drunken or careless missioning.
-Reasonable ammo.

that would require everyone to have the same relevant skills for it to be a fair test.

you do understand that at 50km you ARE going to take more damage than your 3 slot shield tank will allow?

I was going to be done with this, but really, here's the bottom line; You have no idea what missioning in a Mach is like. There is no l4 mission that can even set off the alarm on my Mach with 3 slot tank. Not one. Your gank is your tank. There is specific methodology you use to kill things. DPS is not the only factor. 4 unbonused sentries in a mach are plenty to one shot dessies and 2 shot cruisers. Your AC's are plenty to 1 shot frigs & 2 shot battlecruisers. Every 7-8 seconds you drop 2-4 incoming ships. So all that you have left is battleships, and they are well within the 1000dps zone by the time I start shooting them. Angel missions I don't even have to rep. Serpentis missions I only have to cycle the repper to half cap at most. Sometimes Serpentis BCs take 3 volleys to kill, depending on range. I can get as high of a bounty on Sanshas as I can on Angels without the alarm going off (the whole mission, 20 mil).

There is simply no way a Domi is better than a Mach at any mission, sorry. The Navy Domi is as good as a mach at a couple of missions. The CNR is as good as the Arty Mach at sniping in some instances. The NM is as good as the Mach at Sansha/BR. Overall, there is no best, but the one that's either best or tied for best in the most instances is the Mach. The domi is not the best at any mission, sorry. Its why the Navy Domi exists.

I know you're a Mach fan, but you should honestly have a look at the nonsense a TFI can pull. Seriously, it's ridiculous.

Ed: the Achilles heel is manoeuvrability, there's a /lot/ of DPS from those sentries. Although its not criminal, it's worth mentioning.

ok ill rephrase: go do a sansha, serpentis or guristas mission and tell me how good your completions times are when you're TDed, damped or jammed :)

I was going to be done with this, but really, here's the bottom line; You have no idea what missioning in a Mach is like. There is no l4 mission that can even set off the alarm on my Mach with 3 slot tank. Not one. Your gank is your tank. There is specific methodology you use to kill things. DPS is not the only factor. 4 unbonused sentries in a mach are plenty to one shot dessies and 2 shot cruisers. Your AC's are plenty to 1 shot frigs & 2 shot battlecruisers. Every 7-8 seconds you drop 2-4 incoming ships. So all that you have left is battleships, and they are well within the 1000dps zone by the time I start shooting them. Angel missions I don't even have to rep. Serpentis missions I only have to cycle the repper to half cap at most. Sometimes Serpentis BCs take 3 volleys to kill, depending on range. I can get as high of a bounty on Sanshas as I can on Angels without the alarm going off (the whole mission, 20 mil).

There is simply no way a Domi is better than a Mach at any mission, sorry. The Navy Domi is as good as a mach at a couple of missions. The CNR is as good as the Arty Mach at sniping in some instances. The NM is as good as the Mach at Sansha/BR. Overall, there is no best, but the one that's either best or tied for best in the most instances is the Mach. The domi is not the best at any mission, sorry. Its why the Navy Domi exists.

Just curious, how much pimp has to be put on the ship to be able to attain that elvel of crazyness? Caldari BS V and I still have the shield alarm go off pretty fast if I make misstakes after being told is a tanky BS.

News flash: She can't even fly a CNR.

-Jaz

Completely depends on your DPS and the rats you're fighting. I was able to drop more mods as my DPS went up. If you're fighting rats that counter your tank you need a lot more.

Completely depends on your DPS and the rats you're fighting. I was able to drop more mods as my DPS went up. If you're fighting rats that counter your tank you need a lot more.
I guess the easiest example is to think about any time you and a friend did a LVL-4 mission together. If done correctly you two had so much DPS nothing survived long enough to scratch your tank. So if you take the DPS numbers of two ships in a site and get that into one ship the whole tank thing resolves itself.

I'm going to say it so it's a little clearer to your tiny peanut brain:

Yes THIS CHARACTER cannot fly a CNR.

You fell absolutely flat in the other thread you tried to debate with me in, you really sure you want to try again?

Internet arguments are serious business. You can definitely "win" them and achieve life-long fame, riches, and sexual favors. You should definitely spend more time "winning" debates on public forums.

Rattlesnake by a mile.

You can get 1241 dps and pick the damage type now.

Still has awsome tank and can run a MWD.

Sentries ruin smaller targets with ease.

Anyone still preaching other ships hasn't seen what the changes to cruise missiles on top of drone damage upgrades have done.

golem or rni are alot better than rattler in every situation.
that sentry / drone stuff is only cool story...

while rattler looks cool and tanks like brick, it's still tedious

by the time you have killed 2-3 battleships @100km with golem, your rattler is starting to get in lock/engage range....

golem or rni are alot better than rattler in every situation.
that sentry / drone stuff is only cool story...

while rattler looks cool and tanks like brick, it's still tedious


by the time you have killed 2-3 battleships @100km with golem, your rattler is starting to get in lock/engage range....

The days of the Mach being the answer to every question posed in EVE never existed. And that's a good thing.

I'm curious about the various fittings used for the Domi. Ugly as it is, I can use Garde II's and assorted other T2 drones, as well as fly the Domi, but I've never considered using it on level 4's. While gate to gate travel can be a little slow, I'm interested in what sort of investment a ship like that would take. I've been running L4's in a Loki, and while it does it's job decently, certain combinations like web + neut can result in a dead Loki rather quickly.

For someone that is tired of speed tanking, what are these L4 Domi fits?

I'm curious about the various fittings used for the Domi. Ugly as it is, I can use Garde II's and assorted other T2 drones, as well as fly the Domi, but I've never considered using it on level 4's. While gate to gate travel can be a little slow, I'm interested in what sort of investment a ship like that would take. I've been running L4's in a Loki, and while it does it's job decently, certain combinations like web + neut can result in a dead Loki rather quickly.

For someone that is tired of speed tanking, what are these L4 Domi fits?

[Dominix, mission]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Large Micro Jump Drive
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, unscripted

Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L

Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Ancillary Current Router II


Garde II x5

812 DPS with my skills out to 86km

Would you suggest fitting some tracking beams (to bring loot in) and salvaging mod to make more $$$?

[Dominix, mission]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Large Micro Jump Drive
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, unscripted

Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L

Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Ancillary Current Router II


Garde II x5

812 DPS with my skills out to 86km

Just wanted to add my 2 cents,

Ive recently switched to a navy issue geddon, i absolutely love it , the dps is a solid 1.1k + and i get a good 712dps tank,

highs
7x pulse II 1x drone aug
mids :: 1x AB 1x TC 2x cap rech
lows :: 3x heat sinks / 4 hardeners / LAR
rigs ::nano pump + 2x ccc's
now i don't get the range of a NM / snake / mach, all ships ive used in the past, but it hits for 1.1k dps as mentioned ( 7 pulse & 5 sentry's is OP imo... ), at about 65km with scorch, more then you need for most missions, i have to slow-boat on a few tho ( 400ms with ab )

and your looking at 500m isk vs 1.5b isk + for ship + fittings.

imagine an abaddon with sentries = NI geddon :)

A seriously overlooked ship IMO.

My TFI is 1200 DPS at 75k. Ran it vs the Mach in the Assault back to back. On paper it should complete the mission 25% faster because of damage projection on paper. . In reality both completed it in just under 35 minutes. Bounty ticks were identical. The Machs certainly not the fastest ship @ every mission, but paper DPS lies IMHO. You just have to get a feel for each ship. So far the only 'top mission runner' I dont use is the NM.

Ok, I can see the different suggestions working in regards to dps, but how do you manage the sentry drones? Sitting still isn't exactly the best thing to do in a level 4, at least in my experience.

I am always hearing about running level 4's in these ships, but the methods always seem contrary to what makes sense in a battle (i.e. not sitting in one spot).

Ok, I can see the different suggestions working in regards to dps, but how do you manage the sentry drones? Sitting still isn't exactly the best thing to do in a level 4, at least in my experience.

I am always hearing about running level 4's in these ships, but the methods always seem contrary to what makes sense in a battle (i.e. not sitting in one spot).

The Fleet Phoon is awesome, I've experimented with it in Null and it compared favorable to the mach in isk generation but still can't match it overall (i won't be using a fleet phoon to tank a 10/10 like i do with my mach lol).

Before Odyssey there were some arguments about the Fleet Phoon vs the CNR and it was mostly an eft-warrioring argument that the CNR was useless against the fleet phoon. We know that'`s not totally true now, and I made the argument that a ship in EVE is sooo much more than it's paper DPS or even is "damage projection" ability. I put my isk were my space-mouth was and bought up a bunch of CNRs to sell post patch.

Yes... if you havent "driven" golem you really do not know what you are missing.


1. 112km lock range. (to that range you apply max dps 1050ish + drones, crusies actually fly 166km)
2. 4 launcers, 100% bonus damage (economical :D )
3. tractors/salvagers
4. tp bonus
5. can tank like "I dont give a ****"
6. can fit mwd or ab without nerfing dmg apply or tank that much.
7. can be aligned while you enter mission, you can warp out asap if mission triggers go down or there is threat to be ganked. (remember 112km lock range? )

also if you keep hardeners on all the time and you do not autopilot to gates then there is almost no chance that anyone could gank you. Just dont do missions next to jita or any other trading hub, simple as that.

Isn't the Golem a very expensive investment for L4s? I mean, one has to run 300 missions before starting to see a return on his/her investment.

I have been running a domi with t1 sentries and using wardens until stuff gets close. Training sentry drone V right now. It works pretty well. The mission with the waves spawning on a timer was a bit rough, had to keep warping around with the jump drive due to having so many BS out at a time (was fighting the minmatar pirates) Since I have a ton of laser skills I will have to give the Geddon a try

Golem also does not do 1050 DPS at lock range.

Can you speak more to your TFI experience? The few times I've used it in level 4s, I found myself waiting for things to get into my 80km missile and/or ~60km drone range. You're not having any problems with range? or drone tracking? any micromanagement issues?

why would you not use them?

?

Because unless you're bad, you don't use them all the time.

Try using bouncers instead they do more damage to angels than wardens, also consider purchasing navy sentry drones, they are a significant upgrade to T1 and a good stopgap for the 20 day sentry drone V train.

Golem also does not do 1050 DPS at lock range. Drone control range is 84km with perfect skills and a T2 DLA, plus sentry drone optimals with 1 fed navy omni range between 68km to 97km. You could use 2 omnis but that means space for only 1 painter.

http://i.imgur.com/gCPnSGU.jpg

That's as close to 1050 DPS at lock range as I can get, bouncers have an optimal of 98km and curators 86km. You wouldnt usually use furys either, faction missiles drops the DPS down to 983.

If you're taking 30 seconds to kill an NPC battleship I think I'll stick with my domi.

And you're bad if you use furies for every target because they don't apply full damage for anything bigger than a cruiser.

Target painters also don't apply all the time past 45km (10 seconds of a wasted cycle)

If you're taking 30 seconds to kill an NPC battleship I think I'll stick with my domi.

ofcourse I'm not going to shoot spider drone with fury, what the hell dude? :D

Anyway.. by the time I need to switch ammo, my haubgaublins have already killed anything smaller than cruisers... makes sence?


Please do show me proof or video or whatever how do you kill NPC battleship in less than 30 seconds with dominix when that target is 100km away.

TP's - I dont even need more than that because when all BS-es are dead, all crusiers are already at 45ish distance or closer so... your point is again invalid.

The rats that spawn within 70k catch as much damage from my Mach as they do from your Domi. Its not Magic, its damage projection.

The Blockade is the only mission worth running that has rats spawn at opposite ends. I finish the entire mission in one bounty tick. I would love to see a Dominix do that. Love it.

Flying a Domi when you have a Mach IS doing it wrong.

If you're taking 30 seconds to kill an NPC battleship I think I'll stick with my domi.

And you're bad if you use furies for every target because they don't apply full damage for anything bigger than a cruiser.

Target painters also don't apply all the time past 45km (10 seconds of a wasted cycle)

You wouldnt usually use furys either, faction missiles drops the DPS down to 983.

Furies are pretty much the only missile you use nowadays. Slap 4 TPs on a Golem and go to town. If you're dealing with Mercenary Commanders or elite Angel cruisers, then Precision or CN can save you a volley. You can also load Precision and two volley elite angel frigates.

With Fury, Battleships take three volleys to kill (~24s) or four for something like a Gist Seraphim (~32s) wheres CN will sometimes require an extra volley or two. BCs and Gruistas cruisers take one volley. CN or Precision missiles save you a volley against Mercenary Commanders (small fast cruiser) or elite angel cruisers (e.g. Arch Gistum Centurion,) so if you run across three or more such ships, then it's technically worth the 20s of reloading CN/Prec ammo to kill them.

And that's without Rigor or Flare rigs. If you leave your missile speed rigs on the Golem (left over from the Golem Was a Torpedo Boat days) you get nearly 15km/s missile speed so there's no DPS loss to volley miscounting out to 80+km.


Personally, I can't be bothered to switch ammo types except for extreme cases.

Yeah I somehow doubt your 5 unbonused hobs will do much damage in the grand scheme of things and wont solo much before you're done with the battleships with your missiles.

When I mission, I kill the small stuff first and the bigger stuff is still 70km+ off because the domi is just that good.

I can't show you a video but I think anyone who knows anything about missioning is going to laugh if at you if you think 30 seconds to kill bs rat is good (at any range).

You've clearly not done any missioning since retribution was released, if you send hobs that far out on an unbonused ship you're almost guaranteed to either lose a couple or have to pull them back constantly.

And you never said anything about entering pocket, coming out of warp etc before, but the domi still could do it faster since it doesnt have the scan resolution of a mole.

I can't show you a video but I think anyone who knows anything about missioning is going to laugh if at you if you think 30 seconds to kill bs rat is good (at any range).

You've clearly not done any missioning since retribution was released, if you send hobs that far out on an unbonused ship you're almost guaranteed to either lose a couple or have to pull them back constantly.

@stoic 4 painters is nice in theory but again you're missing the point that they have a 45km optimal (thats with perfect painting skills) plus you have to actually MANAGE those 4 painters on targets and with marauders and their horrible scan res you're spending a lot of time actually targeting, retargeting, painting and then shooting. Some time is lost in all that micro.

5 hobgob tech2 -s kill small frigates/destroyers so fast that I rarely need to switch ammo, honestly.

yes you kill small stuff in domi first because it's how you do it with gunboats and sentrys anyway... low transversal means targets go *pop*

but in golem you kill BS-es long range or whatever range inside 112km radius while hobgoblins kill all small stuff AT THE SAME TIME!!!!!!!!!!

this is just the most effective mission running there can be.. I'm here in eve since 2005 and believe me I've done everything here and tryed too many different ships and setups to even remember.

Only Mach can compete!


and clearly you are ignorant, refusing to understand what I even type.. maybe you dont even read at all? can you?


lauging who? at what? 30 sec npc kill.. well please DO SHOW me ship that can kill NPC BS in under 30 seconds FROM ETNERING POCKET, COMING OUT OF WARP.. BANG.. 112km range BS dead under 30 seconds! PROVE IT.

do I need to write more in caps? can you now read?

just in case I'll write it up again.

Enter mission pocket, come out of warp, lock target @ 100km something, kill it under 30 seconds - show me ship that can do it.
afaik there is only RNI or Golem for that.. (not so much RNI because 96ish lock range meaning you'd still have to slowboat a bit)

I don't get how anyone using a MJD and having to wait for the cool down to get back to the gate would think that's the best ship for the job. I clear most rooms faster than 3 minutes, not to mention waiting another 3 minutes before hitting the next gate to do the trick again.

I guess 'The best ship to do LVL-4's' is the ship that lets you complete them without losing the ship, but if it is a 3 room mission and you are waiting 6 minutes in the first room and 6 minutes in the second room then you are waiting for a cool down when I am accepting the next mission.

But if you love your ship then it is the right ship for you.

NOW go make video how you own RNI GOLEM NM MACH @ missioning with your dominix.

OR GTFO! simple as that

no u

I've seen all those videos and my domi does it better, you're posting on an alt and all your arguments are terrible. You have no credibility so the one who needs to prove themselves is you.

Plenty of people post on their mains, sane or not .I think people who post on alts have nothing of worth to say since you do it to protect your credibility if you say something idiotic.

start to record video already damit.. dont waste time here blablabla... like politician.. go away and make that epic dominix video happen already.


if you dont do it then all you have said does not have any backup and your just stupid whiny kid

nothing you said has any value anyway, i dont need to prove anything.

There there... I know it hurts

please do that video, please... look how I beg you. I want to be as good as you! Teach me to eve and dominix, plz

so you have no rebuttals for any of my points so you just revert to trolling =/

well I can't say I didn't expect anything else.

Dominix = AFK lazy mode

Dominix can beat Nightmare in Blood/Sansha missions? I'd like to see you doing 1000 dps with rails and Curator IIs.

So your method is something like...

1. warp in
2. jump 100km
3. drop drones
4. pop rats till they get too close
5. recover drones
6. jump
7. rinse repeat
8. profit.

?

So your method is something like...

1. warp in
2. jump 100km
3. drop drones
4. pop rats till they get too close
5. recover drones
6. jump
7. rinse repeat
8. profit.

?

So your method is something like...

1. warp in
2. jump 100km
3. drop drones
4. pop rats till they get too close
5. recover drones
5,a. Jump back to gate
5,b. Wait for 3 minutes to prevent getting killed in next room
6. jump
7. rinse repeat
8. profit.
8,a. Spend ISK on a Mach when skills are complete.
9. Profit
10. get trolled in forums by new 'Know it all's' that have a bad idea and wont let it go.

?

I've not yet been in a mission where I have had to MJD off gate immediately to avoid damage

Your problem is that you do missions in Caldari space.

Also, using four 1200s to kill a frigate?

YOU dont use sentry drones because you don't know their capabilities. They aren't just there to blap a couple of frigs, they can contribute to your dps out to 100km as well. Clearly not EVERYONE uses light and salvage drones because I am one person who does not (well I do have a flight of lights in my domi but they rarely see any use).

I'm so confused by your post

use what in a mach?

use what in a domi?

What videos?

Of course you are confused. It's a logical rebuttal to what you have posted in this thread.

use what in a mach?