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Doed
Tyrfing Industries
Viro Mors Non Est
8
   |
Posted - 2013.07.02 12:09:00 -
[61] - Quote
Navy Domi is a top contender vs Serp and Gurista, also very good vs Sansha and Blood Raiders due to TD abuse(CNR is even better here though)
Normal Domi is one of the best, if not the best low SP runner(other contender for this being the Raven. |
ExcalibursTemplar
Citadel Enterprises
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 12:53:00 -
[62] - Quote
Goldiiee wrote:ExcalibursTemplar wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:Goldiiee wrote:I dual box Machs, two screens makes life simple, for instance Angel Extrav yesterday in 12 minutes including bonus room. Pulsed the XL booster 3 times cause the red shield annoys me :) 5 rooms of an Extravaganza in 12 minutes? I call bullsh!te.  12 minutes sounds doable to me, if he blows up the buildings and stops the spawns. That or he actually does the mission with 2 Machs. I'd be surprised if he actually killed EVERYTHING with one Mach though in 12 minutes. That would be truly epic if you could do that and if true I'm retraining for a Mach ASAP. Well I spent a few hours yesterday trying to get FRAPS and several other Game video recording software on my PC, when I finally got Fraps on I went in search of the mission, but still haven't had it offered yet. When I do I will make a recording so I can stop being called a liar, :) Dualboxing Machs one 800 autos the other 1400 artillery, always shoot the trigger BS with the arties, usually one shot pop them or so much that it is one or two cycles from the autos to finish it off, yes killed everything in every room including the turrets in room 3? so my friend in his noctis could come through. first gate to last rat took me 12 minutes two days ago, so if I can just get it offered again I record it and have another boring PVE video for everyone to fall asleep watching on YouTube
I believe you in fact I'm guessing you could pull of a similar time with two CNR. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
695
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 18:43:00 -
[63] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:Quote:ok ill rephrase: go do a sansha, serpentis or guristas mission and tell me how good your completions times are when you're TDed, damped or jammed :) Because I'm a rookie and don't know how to counter. Thanks for playing, I concede Mr Gore. You invented the internets and the Dominix is king. I'll translate this for people who don't speak fluent moron: "I can't find a suitable rebuttal so I will draw upon the powers of archaic internet cliches to attempt to throw off anyone reading up until this point so they cannot see how truly foolish I am"
I've given the proper rebuttal already. I said I've flown both and the Mach is faster. Your response to that was an Ad hominem attack.
Other people obviously understand;
Quote:
Normal Domi is one of the best, if not the best low SP runner(other contender for this being the Raven.
and in fact you yourself have already conceded...
Yep, that's what we run.
Eve is Real |
Goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
432
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 18:53:00 -
[64] - Quote
Is this a what you consider 3 slot or 5 slot tank (Rigs considered a slot?)
[Machariel, Mission Mach 1400]
7x 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II (Quake L)
Automated Targeting Unit I
Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Pith A-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Federation Navy Tracking Computer (Tracking Speed Script)
Gist X-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
4x Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
2x Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Signal Amplifier II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II
Large Ancillary Current Router I
4x Federation Navy Garde
5x Warrior II
Things that keep me up at night;-á
Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs?
Couch Camoflage, If you sit very still maybe they wont see you. |
Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
430
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 20:18:00 -
[65] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:blargh
still havent responded on how well your mach performs on a pirate faction that actually has real ewar :) |
Goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
432
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 20:50:00 -
[66] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:blargh still havent responded on how well your mach performs on a pirate faction that actually has real ewar :)
IDK about Cipher but E-War doesn't affect me, I dualbox when one ship gets Jammed, TD, or Damped my other ship takes out the offender and I continue on. 
Things that keep me up at night;-á
Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs?
Couch Camoflage, If you sit very still maybe they wont see you. |
Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
431
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 22:36:00 -
[67] - Quote
Goldiiee wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:blargh still havent responded on how well your mach performs on a pirate faction that actually has real ewar :) IDK about Cipher but E-War doesn't affect me, I dualbox when one ship gets Jammed, TD, or Damped my other ship takes out the offender and I continue on.
so wait, all your experience comes from using TWO machariels?
|
Goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
432
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 23:05:00 -
[68] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Goldiiee wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:blargh still havent responded on how well your mach performs on a pirate faction that actually has real ewar :) IDK about Cipher but E-War doesn't affect me, I dualbox when one ship gets Jammed, TD, or Damped my other ship takes out the offender and I continue on. so wait, all your experience comes from using TWO machariels?
NO he first two years of playing I was a maelstrom loving noob, then 2 years ago did most missions with a noctis alt and a mach, sleipnir abadon, apoc, tengu. and last year been pretty much two machs and give away book marks to sites in abandoned cans at the station. Kinda covered it all :)
Things that keep me up at night;-á
Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs?
Couch Camoflage, If you sit very still maybe they wont see you. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
695
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 03:00:00 -
[69] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:blargh still havent responded on how well your mach performs on a pirate faction that actually has real ewar :)
I responded, albeit sarcastic. The answer is that I have 2-3 utility slots to counter whatever the NPC's throw at me, and know how to use them. The NPC's melt quickly no matter what faction they belong to, as long as you understand the best methodology to running each individual mission.
The consensus of the thread for everybody but you is that the Navy Domi is one of the best against Serpentis, the CNR is improved, and the Mach is overall top dog, with the NM being top dog vs Sansha's.
Eve is Real |
Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
433
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 03:12:00 -
[70] - Quote
no it's YOUR consensus that mach is top dog, it isn't any longer and just by the fact you think nightmare performs well against TDing sanshas makes me think you really have no idea what you are talking about.
The fact that you have to sacrifice slots to counter npc ewar makes the mach inferior to the domi, I don't have to replace anything and still retain 800+ dps at much longer ranges than the mach |
Doed
Tyrfing Industries
Viro Mors Non Est
8
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 05:55:00 -
[71] - Quote
The only blockade a Domi possibly can't easily do in under 20 minutes is Serp one, I've only ran domi a few times there but did get it under 20 minutes once, out of like, 3 goes or something. Sansha/Blood and esp Angel is very easily done in under 20.
ANd when I said low sp runner ,I also considered low isk aswell, if you can jump into a faction ship right away the obv the normal domi can't get close to competing.
Navy Domi > Normal Domi
A Navy Domi does 1300 to 1400 dps at 50km, depending on your fit. |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
871
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 06:25:00 -
[72] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:no it's YOUR consensus that mach is top dog, it isn't any longer and just by the fact you think nightmare performs well against TDing sanshas makes me think you really have no idea what you are talking about.
The fact that you have to sacrifice slots to counter npc ewar makes the mach inferior to the domi, I don't have to replace anything and still retain 800+ dps at much longer ranges than the mach
Firstly, I agree the Machariel isn't top dog anymore (although I've been saying this even before the TE nerf). But I will say that I have absolutely no problems against TDing Sanshas with my Tachyon Nightmare. I have solod Blockades with Sanshas no problems. Train some skills.
The Machariel is the best by far against Angels, but against every other type of rats, it is at best a close second. People just haven't realised this yet. |
Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
433
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 07:12:00 -
[73] - Quote
Doed wrote:The only blockade a Domi possibly can't easily do in under 20 minutes is Serp one, I've only ran domi a few times there but did get it under 20 minutes once, out of like, 3 goes or something. Sansha/Blood and esp Angel is very easily done in under 20.
ANd when I said low sp runner ,I also considered low isk aswell, if you can jump into a faction ship right away the obv the normal domi can't get close to competing.
Navy Domi > Normal Domi
A Navy Domi does 1300 to 1400 dps at 50km, depending on your fit. Also produces over 1k dps at 80km with 75% kin 25% therm damage.
No deep falloff and less issues with jamming, tds, etc.
would love to see a navy domi doing 1k dps at 80km considering you cannot get gardes to hit that far.
also the claim for 1300 dps at 50km is a little far fetched also, you sure you're not fitting blasters and forgetting their range? |
Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
433
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 07:20:00 -
[74] - Quote
Paikis wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:no it's YOUR consensus that mach is top dog, it isn't any longer and just by the fact you think nightmare performs well against TDing sanshas makes me think you really have no idea what you are talking about.
The fact that you have to sacrifice slots to counter npc ewar makes the mach inferior to the domi, I don't have to replace anything and still retain 800+ dps at much longer ranges than the mach Firstly, I agree the Machariel isn't top dog anymore (although I've been saying this even before the TE nerf). But I will say that I have absolutely no problems against TDing Sanshas with my Tachyon Nightmare. I have solod Blockades with Sanshas no problems. Train some skills. The Machariel is the best by far against Angels, but against every other type of rats, it is at best a close second. People just haven't realised this yet.
I find that pretty hard to believe but I'll take your word on it, quite a few tding elite cruisers spawn on blockade, surely that will drop your optimal to pretty dangerous levels? |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
375
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 07:48:00 -
[75] - Quote
Navy domi is something that i would pick more than anything else atm..
Mach is still an valid option on many missions imo while it dmg range is nerfed it still can project big dps from 0 to 50km so if target or group of targets are sitting at 80k or so(not on many missions tho) it just need to move in 20km or so and that take seconds to do in mwd mach.
But i just like Ndomi more it is slow as turd ,1400+ dps monster that is hard to tank while maintaining gank cap can be an issue,there is almost always some trade of in modules you want to fit but thanks to bonus'd drones it is pretty much immune to e-war.
http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
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Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
375
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 07:55:00 -
[76] - Quote
"also the claim for 1300 dps at 50km is a little far fetched also, you sure you're not fitting blasters and forgetting their range?"
war potato i am lacking rail spec to l5 and t2 ammo for totally fake paper dps but yes domi hits hard ..very hard.
http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
|
Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
433
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 07:59:00 -
[77] - Quote
yeah that's not going to hit to 50km |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
375
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 08:01:00 -
[78] - Quote
it already does
http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
|
Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
435
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 08:26:00 -
[79] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:it already does
show me where you do 1400 dps at 50km because you wont with that fit.
also wtf you have genos and a +6% pwg implant |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
375
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 08:37:00 -
[80] - Quote
Garde have 60km optimal and guns have 36+30 with plenty room for improvement for example basic t2 te and unscripted tc will push that to 50km falloff and 42km opty for guns
so yeah it is preety much spot on 1300-1400 dps to 50k or are you saying that 8km in falloff of 50km is somehow killing ship dps by huge number?
Edit yes i am implanted i don't run empty clones if i play nice.
http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
|
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
298
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 08:43:00 -
[81] - Quote
You can get 14xx at 39.6 + 36 (on a real fit, I could push that further out artificially).
Needs CN antimatter and both 6% hybrid damage and RoF.
It's close enough, you could doubtless eft something else higher up (rigs, TCs etc) but that fit I'm testing is one you could actually....use. I didn't change a thing on the actual fitting, just skills v, the implants and the faction ammo. |
Khanid Voltar
Third Way Retirement Corp
12
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 08:53:00 -
[82] - Quote
Why has the space you are missioning in not entered into this argument yet?
IMHO it is the critical factor and most likely the problem here.
My alt flies in minnie space - I dont think he has ever had Guristas extravaganze, caldari missions only pop up for the most part when they are caldari + amarr missions, and serpentis missions are perhaps the most prevalent of the not very often missions.
Like I think Cipher said if you are dual boxing EW becomes a non issue for the most part as the EW rats dont seem to split their fire, and hence the other alt just elimiates the problem.
I dual box in minnie high sec, using two mwd ac machs and while I am not getting Godilees times I am finding it unbelievably fast.
But I reckon Tsukino is almost definitely not doing missions in minnie high sec, and is possibly from his responses single boxing as well. So it's really comparing apples to oranges.
Anyway, in response to the original question "What is the best mission ship?" I would answer it is dependant on a number of factors, the most significant of which is which npc faction owns the space you are missioning in.
And since, rightly or wrongly, the most lucrative missions are often perceived to be angel missions you want to maximise your chances of getting them, and being in a ship that is going to cope the best with the missions in that space, then the best mission ship therefore is the mach.
Maybe at lower skill level, in other space, other ships are more appropriate. But for my skill level, and the type of rat I want to get missions to fight, the Mach is an end game mission ship.
Just my two cents.
|
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
375
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 08:56:00 -
[83] - Quote
well it is almost warranted that you will need tracking mods at least two so like it or not range will go up from stock 36km or you will hit for crap otherwise
also domi i linked in pic is incursion one it have wrong rig(em II) it should be therm and it have scope chip it should be kin II rig..that way with correct invul you are good for therm/kin/explo rats and some easier em(drones/merc) missions!
But it is doable as i said my preferred ship atm.
http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
|
Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
435
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 09:12:00 -
[84] - Quote
you do understand that at 50km you ARE going to take more damage than your 3 slot shield tank will allow? |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
375
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 09:17:00 -
[85] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:you do understand that at 50km you ARE going to take more damage than your 3 slot shield tank will allow?
i think that you underestimate what 1400 instant dps does to stuff anyway i did fraps some time ago(and post on this forums) very similar domi in action 0 cap mods some tank and it worked then it works now.
You are always free to believe and fly what you want,i was just showing that 1400 dps rail domi isn't unreachable.
http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
|
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
298
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 09:59:00 -
[86] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:you do understand that at 50km you ARE going to take more damage than your 3 slot shield tank will allow?
Mine is not a 3 slot tank, and it's the boat I use to blap short range, low travel serpentis/guristas missions so it's hardened against them (booster, invuln, kin & therm hardener(s) and a couple of rigs for taste/ in case I feel like more general purpose work). The only sacrifice it makes is a large, rather than X-large booster - because it doesnt need it. The speed at which it melts things is quite hilarious.
Again though, it just goes back to my "have a stable of ships, pick the best for the mission" belief. But for guristas/serpentis work up close, that thing is a pain spewing monster
Edit: Mind you, the TFI I have is *better* still, but sometimes a change of pace is nice. |
Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
435
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 10:08:00 -
[87] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:you do understand that at 50km you ARE going to take more damage than your 3 slot shield tank will allow? i think that you underestimate what 1400 instant dps does to stuff anyway i did fraps some time ago(and post on this forums) very similar domi in action 0 cap mods some tank and it worked then it works now. You are always free to believe and fly what you want,i was just showing that 1400 dps rail domi isn't unreachable.
1400 dps is very reachable but EFT numbers mean very little in the real game, 1400 dps means you have a 3 slot tank and many missions you will be breaking before you can even get locks on the more important things unless you're running some ridiculous pith-x large shield booster setup with an a-type invuls and stuff. Not to mention some missions have rats that can shoot you from much further than your engagement range.
Plus 50km engagement range is pretty poor to start with, many things spawn at 70, 90 and even over 100km at times, no DLA means you got a 60km max drone control range too. |
ExcalibursTemplar
Citadel Enterprises
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 10:45:00 -
[88] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:"also the claim for 1300 dps at 50km is a little far fetched also, you sure you're not fitting blasters and forgetting their range?" war potato i am lacking rail spec to l5 and t2 ammo for totally fake paper dps but yes domi hits hard ..very hard.
I could be wrong but I'm pretty certain that's not your DPS.
Undock then deploy drones and look at your dps.
EDIT: Ignore this i've just run the numbers through EVEHQ fit and they seem right. I just have a weird bug in my game when docked up all the drone damage is added together instead of just the drones i can use. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
298
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 10:46:00 -
[89] - Quote
There's really no reason I couldnt rig my navy domi for drone control range to squeeze it further out - its current rigs are...optional.
It could be wiggled to get drone range out to 80km with keeping max guns managing 4 figure DPS out to that range, before implants and a good enough tank (considering its DPS).
Only reason I didnt was...it was a hull I built for an explicit purpose.
edit: and no deadspace items, faction is where that tops out. |
Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
435
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 10:57:00 -
[90] - Quote
ExcalibursTemplar wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:"also the claim for 1300 dps at 50km is a little far fetched also, you sure you're not fitting blasters and forgetting their range?" war potato i am lacking rail spec to l5 and t2 ammo for totally fake paper dps but yes domi hits hard ..very hard. I could be wrong but I'm pretty certain that's not your DPS. Undock then deploy drones and look at your dps.
when you deploy drones the ones out are removed from the DPS calculation on the fitting screen |
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