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BlueOrca
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Posted - 2005.11.28 18:29:00 -
[31]
I just hope thet the stats are just for show, if not any of the T2 Brutixs are not worth buying!
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.11.28 18:37:00 -
[32]
Here we see the end of any kind of solo pvp.
If T2 BC will have HAC abilities, then we look at a ship without any engaging limits apart from engaging nossing-BS wich will still be able to counter somewhow. But other ship stand no chance in the world against for example Minmatar T2 Cyclone with 7 220 IIs or even better 7 425 IIs. It will rip apart every single ship that will engage it and wont be able to drain its cap dry. Same goes for other T2 BCs. So now what we see is that all HAC specialized pilots can do a nice thing and throw ages of training into a garbage can. people who trained HAC 5 and other related skills to 5 now go nerfed without a single chance against a ' New Vagabond' with +50% DPS and Defence, or a 'New Deimos' with even more DPS.
Nice move! You just forced people to fly bigger ships....and completly nerfed those who putted ages of training into one particular HAC. Thanks a whole lot.
-=-
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.11.28 18:47:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: KilROCK
Edited by: KilROCK on 28/11/2005 18:05:25
Oh joy, and i thought my high charisma was useless 
Yeah goodie goodie, squadron command is a bit of a pain though.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
FalloutBoy
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Posted - 2005.11.28 18:51:00 -
[34]
oh god the tech 2 brutix can fit a full rack of neutrons, MWD, and dual medium rep tank and have grid left over 
and people complained about hacs being a mobile pwn mobile
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Shira d'Radonis
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Posted - 2005.11.28 18:51:00 -
[35]
I dunno... Squad Command V for the assault battle cruisers seems excessive to me though I can understand it for the logistical ship... I mean, it just seems to me that if you have two different kinds of ships, it should cater to two different kinds of people who have followed very different skill paths.
Are both getting gang assist module bonuses? I think this should be limited to the logistical ship if that's not already the case.
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ôàquod ad ius naturale attinet, omnes homines aequales suntö
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.11.28 18:55:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Sky Hunter
Here we see the end of any kind of solo pvp.
If T2 BC will have HAC abilities, then we look at a ship without any engaging limits apart from engaging nossing-BS wich will still be able to counter somewhow. But other ship stand no chance in the world against for example Minmatar T2 Cyclone with 7 220 IIs or even better 7 425 IIs. It will rip apart every single ship that will engage it and wont be able to drain its cap dry. Same goes for other T2 BCs. So now what we see is that all HAC specialized pilots can do a nice thing and throw ages of training into a garbage can. people who trained HAC 5 and other related skills to 5 now go nerfed without a single chance against a ' New Vagabond' with +50% DPS and Defence, or a 'New Deimos' with even more DPS.
Nice move! You just forced people to fly bigger ships....and completly nerfed those who putted ages of training into one particular HAC. Thanks a whole lot.
Only thing that is lost is HAC lvl 5, everything else is still usable, it takes a butload more training into leadership, and is slower and a helluvalot bigger sig wise. Would the assault style BC rip a HAC a new one, quite likely so. But I'd rather fly my HAC against a BS then a BC.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.11.28 19:16:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Sky Hunter
Here we see the end of any kind of solo pvp.
If T2 BC will have HAC abilities, then we look at a ship without any engaging limits apart from engaging nossing-BS wich will still be able to counter somewhow. But other ship stand no chance in the world against for example Minmatar T2 Cyclone with 7 220 IIs or even better 7 425 IIs. It will rip apart every single ship that will engage it and wont be able to drain its cap dry. Same goes for other T2 BCs. So now what we see is that all HAC specialized pilots can do a nice thing and throw ages of training into a garbage can. people who trained HAC 5 and other related skills to 5 now go nerfed without a single chance against a ' New Vagabond' with +50% DPS and Defence, or a 'New Deimos' with even more DPS.
Nice move! You just forced people to fly bigger ships....and completly nerfed those who putted ages of training into one particular HAC. Thanks a whole lot.
Only thing that is lost is HAC lvl 5, everything else is still usable, it takes a butload more training into leadership, and is slower and a helluvalot bigger sig wise. Would the assault style BC rip a HAC a new one, quite likely so. But I'd rather fly my HAC against a BS then a BC.
Like people said here already, everyone who can will fly T2 BC rather then BS. And i dont like that any training is lost. HAC lvl 5 is a long skill, so people who trained it need to use it. Now HAC is most focused pvp/combat ship. Why change it? Why add another 'i win' button? To nerf it later on and make people again trash their time and efforts? I really dont see the goal it this 'nerf up, nerf down' game that developers playing atm. want to try keep game interesting? Dont brake people`s specializations!
-=-
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Helmut Rul
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Posted - 2005.11.28 19:21:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Helmut Rul on 28/11/2005 19:24:07
I must say that i continue to be impressed by this bizzarre sense of entitlement that some of the HAC users have, It seems almost like they experienced an personal insult or feel betrayed because their favored ship is not king of the hill anymore.
After all this is nothing new just about every other class of ships(excepting perhaps interceptors) have been pushed off the pedestal some of them repeatedly.
Unless i am mistaken no Dev have ever gone on record saying that HACs will be the ultimate ships in eve from the moment of their creation to the end of the game.
Bring on the assault battleships i say.
(yes i know i exaggerate, Most HAC users are perfectly fine people as are most other eve players. But i am amazed by those that scream with outrage at the idea that the Devs may want to introduce other ships that in some way outperform their favourite class.)
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Shira d'Radonis
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Posted - 2005.11.28 19:32:00 -
[39]
Any game is going to require tweaking over time. Most things that have been nerfed have been done so because they were overpowered somehow. It's not meant to make one group able to dominate the others for a length of time.
Hopefully, when they make it onto the Tranquility server, the t2 BC's will have a role that they will play and will be rather limited outside of that role... as it should be. And also hopefully the HAC will have a place now rather than being an all-purpose killing machine.
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ôàquod ad ius naturale attinet, omnes homines aequales suntö
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.11.28 19:38:00 -
[40]
Well it's not that hard to understand really, HACs rule, I'm a maxed out deimos pilot, if you ignore the lack of drone spec 5, that's a lot of skillpoints, and they're beautiful ships. Having to retrain cause there's something that does what HACs do!!!! better then a HAC is a idea that is gonna inspire some anger and OMGNO feelings. But I seriously doubt that they'll become better HACs. They're too slow, and too big, they better not get damage bonuses though.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2005.11.28 19:42:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Hoshi
Here are screens with the stats of all the tech 2 BCs, the text logistics/hac I have added note which one of the requiers the Hac and which requiers the Logistics skill.
Amarr
Caldari
Gallante
Minmatar
Wait just a damn second, the nighthawk is the assult BC and it has worse resists than the logistics ship?
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Quote:
1 Billion isk currently sells on ebay for about $225
90 day GTC $38.95 Currently selling for 300mill
Therefore 1Bill isk costs you $129.50. |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.11.28 19:43:00 -
[42]
Yes, and better offense, the all out support one has better tanking. Makes sense.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Shadowsword
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Posted - 2005.11.28 19:52:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Wait just a damn second, the nighthawk is the assult BC and it has worse resists than the logistics ship?
That's because the combat command battlecruisers aren't meant to be the Be-All-End-All of Eve... Well, not quite anyway, they still are almost as slow than a BS and almost as easy to hit, but that wouldn't matter all that much if they had assault-like resistances, and they would solo lv4 and maybe even the future lv5 missions without breaking a sweat.
The Fleet command battlecruisers, on the other hand, will be primary targets of any battle, so they need something more in the way of survivability.
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Helmut Rul
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Posted - 2005.11.28 20:00:00 -
[44]
That is my point Gariuys, HACs rule.
And most of those that use HACs have had a year or more of virtually unopposed reign as the ship of choice for just about anything except mission running, Over this year almost everything else in the game have changed but still the HACs are top dogs.
It is now time to reward those players that have been taking "unpopular" choices, Those who have trained gang skills, those who have been using Battlecruisers and other ships that have fallen by the side as the juggernaut that is the HAC trampled them into the dust all these months ago.
While i do understand the complaint about the new ships stealing the HACs spotlight the simple thruth is that any ship that are going to enjoy widespread use in EvE needs to do and take damage otherwise they get relegated to perhaps important but still very narrow niches(And no the HAC being a badass pwnmobile is not a niche).
I also symphatize with those of you that do not look forward to the chore of training up a ton of new skills but that is for good or bad the basic way EvE works, I have myself trained up for frigates, cruisers, battleships then interceptors arrived then assault ships then heavy assault ships then covert ops and i have trained them all, not to speak of that the last year i have trained up both the entire new set of EW skills and also the new set of missile skills that both essentialy just allowed me to use EW and missiles in the same way as before, my point is not that you are wrong in feeling bummed about having to train new skills but that almost everyone that have played in EvE for a while have experienced the same.
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Shira d'Radonis
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Posted - 2005.11.28 20:00:00 -
[45]
Yeah, at least at the moment, an enemy fleet is not entirely sure whether a BC in the fight has gang assist modules or not or which do and which do not... but when you start seeing the logistic battlecruisers out there, it'll take about two seconds to figure out who you should be locking weapons on
The logistics ships definitely need a defensive edge.
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ôàquod ad ius naturale attinet, omnes homines aequales suntö
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Tolan
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Posted - 2005.11.28 20:44:00 -
[46]
yup, will be fantastic, lovely ships ...
but before you get those skills trained....yet another T2 release with limited T2 BPO's....will become the most exclusive and expensive ships on market, destined only for the extremely rich
HAC's now > 100 -150 mil
wonder how much T2 BC's will go for.....???
maybe im being too cynical..but it would be such a shame if all this developement and content is just destined for a small percentage of the player base.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.11.28 20:54:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Helmut Rul
Edited by: Helmut Rul on 28/11/2005 19:24:07
I must say that i continue to be impressed by this bizzarre sense of entitlement that some of the HAC users have, It seems almost like they experienced an personal insult or feel betrayed because their favored ship is not king of the hill anymore.
After all this is nothing new just about every other class of ships(excepting perhaps interceptors) have been pushed off the pedestal some of them repeatedly.
Unless i am mistaken no Dev have ever gone on record saying that HACs will be the ultimate ships in eve from the moment of their creation to the end of the game.
Bring on the assault battleships i say.
(yes i know i exaggerate, Most HAC users are perfectly fine people as are most other eve players. But i am amazed by those that scream with outrage at the idea that the Devs may want to introduce other ships that in some way outperform their favourite class.)
HACs arent a top-ships at all. Thats my point mate, you can loose your HAC to a smart setted BC or BS pretty easy. HAC do have engaging limitations, while the BC will have even less. I mean even tho their dont have damage bonuses, they still have more tankig abilities, wich will give them chance to tank anything no problem, or at least tank till you bring target down. Now what we will see if youd say and we suddenyl get Assalut BS? Imagine yourself living in 0.0. Now imagine yourself a T2 tempest(Vagabond analog), hopping into system....lets see....speed would be like 200m/s base, so about 500m/s with AB II....now add to it insane resistances and insane dmg output from 7x Dual 650 IIs.(For an example lets say T2 Tempest will have 7 turret slots).
Now.....what you gonna counter this with? Any BS getting close to this one will die. hence this thing will take down 2 BS and wont even get its hull scratched. Yay for another 'i win' button?
Now what would happen to HAC if it would try to take on any target pilot see? He would loose it very very fast, sicne like i said, alot of people think that HAC is unltimate ship that puts down anything it engages.....no way. It does have good amount of ships and setups in cant counter, or can counter but with great risk.
-=-
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2005.11.28 21:04:00 -
[48]
These guys like Sky Hunter ***** me up.
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Stratosfear
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Posted - 2005.11.28 21:06:00 -
[49]
Anyone else expecting their BPO's to produce 2-3 ships a week, with extreme prices being charged?
Before you get too excited, these will be 200-300m ships. Yes, you can buy one or two, but you won't be able to replace em easily.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.11.28 21:09:00 -
[50]
ôWait just a damn second, the nighthawk is the assult BC and it has worse resists than the logistics ship?"
The Logistics are not really full Logistics ships but Command ships for Commanders. ItÆs pretty normal for Commanders to be in the toughest ships. I see no problem for the Full command ships to have better resistanceÆs then the HAC version as long as they have less fire power.
The problem is most people think of the pure command ship as a Logistical support ship. DonÆt think of them like thatÆs, they have the Logistics skill but they are not pure logistic ships.
ôWhat setup did you find work best in your testing may i ask?ö
Well itÆs only theory numbers. 2 Invul Fields seem to give better results then 1 Field and if you use 3 gang assist and 2 fields thatÆs 20ish cap/sec drain. So a full shield relay setup wonÆt work. You have to use PDS or a mix of PDS and relays
Tank wise no gang assist, missiles so no cap drain and pure shield relays is best. But not using gang assist feels wrong so I would say 2 shield relays and the rest PDS modules. I also didnÆt factor in gang assist resistance boost as I donÆt know how it stacks with the fields.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Helmut Rul
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Posted - 2005.11.28 21:29:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Helmut Rul on 28/11/2005 21:32:13
Sky Hunter HACs are top ships otherwise there would not be such a demand for them and people would certainly not be paying 140 million or so for many of them neither would they have to have month long waiting lists for them.
While HAcs are not invulnerable that does not mean that HACs are not the most favoured ships today with an amazing blending of firepower tanking speed and agility.
Honestly just what would constitute a top ship from your point of wiew ?
I also agree that it makes sense for the command ship to have better tanking than the damage focused ship after all if there ever was a ship that would be called primary that is the command ship.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.11.28 21:30:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Ghoest
These guys like Sky Hunter ***** me up.
Maybe because your trained all races and now sit happy?
If you didnt noticed, some people like to have focused skill path...
-=-
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Evil Edna
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Posted - 2005.11.28 21:43:00 -
[53]
Originally by: FalloutBoy
oh god the tech 2 brutix can fit a full rack of neutrons, MWD, and dual medium rep tank and have grid left over
and people complained about hacs being a mobile pwn mobile
drool
Killboard.co.uk
In game channel kr0m-public |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.11.28 21:52:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Sky Hunter
Originally by: Ghoest
These guys like Sky Hunter ***** me up.
Maybe because your trained all races and now sit happy?
If you didnt noticed, some people like to have focused skill path...
And you focused on HACs. So you are going to miss out on the Command ships.
~Captain Cutie, ISC Event Horizon
Biomass fears me.
Sovereignty 2.0 |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2005.11.28 21:53:00 -
[55]
Actually I only fly 2 races.
BTW really cant understand why the forum turned that word into "******". Its a slang for "laughter" or "crazy" nothing bad about it.
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2005.11.29 09:57:00 -
[56]
Originally by: FalloutBoy
oh god the tech 2 brutix can fit a full rack of neutrons, MWD, and dual medium rep tank and have grid left over
and people complained about hacs being a mobile pwn mobile
Yeah.. but imagine the price .. Ouch..
With great power, comes great responsibility. |
Critta
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Posted - 2005.11.29 10:36:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Sky Hunter
Here we see the end of any kind of solo pvp.
If T2 BC will have HAC abilities, then we look at a ship without any engaging limits apart from engaging nossing-BS wich will still be able to counter somewhow. But other ship stand no chance in the world against for example Minmatar T2 Cyclone with 7 220 IIs or even better 7 425 IIs. It will rip apart every single ship that will engage it and wont be able to drain its cap dry. Same goes for other T2 BCs. So now what we see is that all HAC specialized pilots can do a nice thing and throw ages of training into a garbage can. people who trained HAC 5 and other related skills to 5 now go nerfed without a single chance against a ' New Vagabond' with +50% DPS and Defence, or a 'New Deimos' with even more DPS.
Nice move! You just forced people to fly bigger ships....and completly nerfed those who putted ages of training into one particular HAC. Thanks a whole lot.
So, some rough stats have been put up on the test server and already the sky is falling around us?
Chill dude. I'm sure once the original rush of "must have a t2 BC" has passed, everyone will realise that they're to expensive to fly, and we'll all go back to flying what we were flying before.
Nobody's being forced to do anything, last I checked we got free reign to do what we like in eve.. including choosing what ships we train for and fly.
Hey, you never know, HAC prices may even get cheaper :-D
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2005.11.29 10:39:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Critta
Originally by: Sky Hunter
Here we see the end of any kind of solo pvp.
If T2 BC will have HAC abilities, then we look at a ship without any engaging limits apart from engaging nossing-BS wich will still be able to counter somewhow. But other ship stand no chance in the world against for example Minmatar T2 Cyclone with 7 220 IIs or even better 7 425 IIs. It will rip apart every single ship that will engage it and wont be able to drain its cap dry. Same goes for other T2 BCs. So now what we see is that all HAC specialized pilots can do a nice thing and throw ages of training into a garbage can. people who trained HAC 5 and other related skills to 5 now go nerfed without a single chance against a ' New Vagabond' with +50% DPS and Defence, or a 'New Deimos' with even more DPS.
Nice move! You just forced people to fly bigger ships....and completly nerfed those who putted ages of training into one particular HAC. Thanks a whole lot.
So, some rough stats have been put up on the test server and already the sky is falling around us?
Chill dude. I'm sure once the original rush of "must have a t2 BC" has passed, everyone will realise that they're to expensive to fly, and we'll all go back to flying what we were flying before.
Nobody's being forced to do anything, last I checked we got free reign to do what we like in eve.. including choosing what ships we train for and fly.
Hey, you never know, HAC prices may even get cheaper :-D
Amen.
My words exactly.. They will cost a S***load of isk, and the waiting time anyone ?.. ouch!
/Mav
With great power, comes great responsibility. |
LWMaverick
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Posted - 2005.11.29 10:41:00 -
[59]
Originally by: BlueOrca
I just hope thet the stats are just for show, if not any of the T2 Brutixs are not worth buying!
Uhm ?.. why ?..
Full rack t2 neutrons, 2x t2 med reps(or faction), MWD + cap injector... ?
Now thats kick ass.. But as said above again and again -> Teh Price!
With great power, comes great responsibility. |
Elfaen Ethenwe
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Posted - 2005.11.29 11:13:00 -
[60]
just comparing the versions.
weird how each race has a seperate weekness / strength.
amarr = explosive...
caldari - thermal (yey)
gallante = kinetic
minmatar = em
These numbers have to be wrong...
You could tank like a B****** with these things.
Command cruiser with officer hardners 4tw
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