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Liet Traep	Posted - 2005.11.28 12:19:00 - [1] They look fecking awesome. It looks to me that with the new patch pvp stylwe is going to swing to HAC's, BC's and the new Command Ships. I don't have the skills on sisi to fly one yet. Has anyone test flown these yet? They have the same resists as assault ships and HAC's. I'm wondering if the resistance bonus that the ferox and prophecy have which is listed on the ships is effective. If so they'll be disgusting in combat. Who needs BS?
Glassback	Posted - 2005.11.28 12:26:00 - [2] Yup to the stats, but the actual ships are not on sisi yet, just showing on the market.
JediGuardian	Posted - 2005.11.28 12:28:00 - [3] whats skills are required for there ships? "If god created the universe, then he also created evil, so the source of all evil is god"
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.11.28 12:40:00 - [4] ôwhats skills are required for there ships?ö A number of level 5 leadership skills which need Charisma. Tough luck on all those with Charisma in the single digits. ôI'm wondering if the resistance bonus that the ferox and prophecy have which is listed on the ships is effective.ö If EM is on less then 25 then its without the Ferox 5% per level bonus. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Liet Traep	Posted - 2005.11.28 12:42:00 - [5] Well there are 2 elite bc's for each race. Each Battle ship requires BC 5, racial cruiser 5, Command ships 1. Command ships requires leadership 5 and squadron command 5. Additionally one Elite BC of each race requires logistics 4. So most pilots including most HAC pilots will need a bit of training before they can use one. The damnation one is a khanid ship and has the half turrets/half missiles thing going which I don't like. The 2 brutix based ones look insane. I can see those shredding BS and HAC's in combat. Oh and they put up the stats for the interdictors, t2 destroyers also. But that's another thread for another day.
Liet Traep	Posted - 2005.11.28 12:46:00 - [6] Originally by: Pottsey ôwhats skills are required for there ships?ö A number of level 5 leadership skills which need Charisma. Tough luck on all those with Charisma in the single digits. ôI'm wondering if the resistance bonus that the ferox and prophecy have which is listed on the ships is effective.ö If EM is on less then 25 then its without the Ferox 5% per level bonus. Oh and Pottsey I'm sure you'll love the idea of passive shield tanking a vulture or nighthawk or in your case as you fly gallente an astarte or eos.
Ortu Konsinni	Posted - 2005.11.28 12:58:00 - [7] So what exactly is/are the difference(s) between the two ships in each race? --- Ortu Konsinni Chief diplomat - French Force Alliance --- EVE Player Ship Gallery
Shadowsword	Posted - 2005.11.28 13:15:00 - [8] Originally by: Liet Traep Well there are 2 elite bc's for each race. Each Battle ship requires BC 5, racial cruiser 5, Command ships 1. Command ships requires leadership 5 and squadron command 5. Additionally one Elite BC of each race requires logistics 4. So most pilots including most HAC pilots will need a bit of training before they can use one. The damnation one is a khanid ship and has the half turrets/half missiles thing going which I don't like. The 2 brutix based ones look insane. I can see those shredding BS and HAC's in combat. Oh and they put up the stats for the interdictors, t2 destroyers also. But that's another thread for another day. I think most of us now have a pretty good idea of what their stats looks like. What we don't know, however, are the bonuses they get, and the number of turret/missile hardpoints they have. Can someone with access to Sisi give us some infos?
Liet Traep	Posted - 2005.11.28 13:23:00 - [9] Originally by: Ortu Konsinni So what exactly is/are the difference(s) between the two ships in each race? One appears to be more of a combat ship like hacs and assaults. the other appears to have less low slots and more medium slots for ew or command coprocessors. the gallente ones in particular have very little to distinguish them at first glance. slightly different slot layout.
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.11.28 13:35:00 - [10] Can anyone tell me what the non-Khanid T2 BC's bonuses are?
Anarkia Evangel	Posted - 2005.11.28 13:47:00 - [11] Can someone post screen shots of the stats please :)
Professor McFly	Posted - 2005.11.28 13:52:00 - [12] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Can anyone tell me what the non-Khanid T2 BC's bonuses are? The descriptions are incomplete, they both seem to have the same bonus: Quote: Absolution The Prophecy is built on an ancient Amarrian warship design dating back to the earliest days of starship combat. Originally intended as a full-fledged battleship, it was determined after mixed fleet engagements with early prototypes that the Prophecy would be more effective as a slightly smaller, more mobile form of artillery support. Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in Medium Energy Weapon capacitor use and 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level 99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules. Best price in station is: None available 0 unit available Damnation The Prophecy is built on an ancient Amarrian warship design dating back to the earliest days of starship combat. Originally intended as a full-fledged battleship, it was determined after mixed fleet engagements with early prototypes that the Prophecy would be more effective as a slightly smaller, more mobile form of artillery support. Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in Medium Energy Weapon capacitor use and 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level 99% reduction in the CPU need __________________ Retard's handbook
Hoshi	Posted - 2005.11.28 13:53:00 - [13] The fluff text (which includes the bonuses) is not updated yet. They have the text for the tech 1 versions right now. As for the difference between the 2 types (not including bonuses) here are the difference between the 2 ferox versions The Logistics version compared to the hac version have: 44% more shields and hull 30% more resists to kin and thermal on both armor/shield 1 more low and 1 more mid slot 5/5 turret/missile while the hac has 1/6 (both with 7 high) 45 less cpu, 410 more PG. I don't know about you but this looks very strange to me, the hac version must have some REALLY good bonuses for there to be a reason to fly it over the logistics version.
Hoshi	Posted - 2005.11.28 14:24:00 - [14] Here are screens with the stats of all the tech 2 BCs, the text logistics/hac I have added note which one of the requiers the Hac and which requiers the Logistics skill. Amarr Caldari Gallante Minmatar
Harisdrop	Posted - 2005.11.28 14:50:00 - [15] These ships will just be insane. I think the best part is the change for the HAC market. There is no one ship that will own. Each and ever ship will be great as long as the pilot has the right skills. No more looking at the ship name and Knowing what to exspect. You can resitances beyond the ships capabilities. -------------------------- Does it matter why, its when is more crucial!
KilROCK	Posted - 2005.11.28 14:53:00 - [16] To be, it just looks like placeholders... Aslong as i won't see any bonus, i won't be celebrating anything
Cadman Weyland	Posted - 2005.11.28 14:56:00 - [17] I can see the HAC varient getting nice rof and damage bonus`s while using a single gang mod. The Logistics varient id expect gets to use Multiple gang mods, rather than just the single one, and will get bonus`s to remote reps, energy transfers etc like a Logistics cruiser. Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
Spartan 1185	Posted - 2005.11.28 15:06:00 - [18] I can see, as a 0.0 pilot, how those new BC's would be extremely useful, take the mimnitar one for example, with the low slot config on the logistic's model, you can run 1 800 plate, 1 64% em, 164% 1 passive regenerative plate, and a t2 or corpum med rep, and your tank against, say, bloods would rock, perfect for the "tanker" duty in 8/10 or 10/10 complexes.
Arleonenis	Posted - 2005.11.28 15:31:00 - [19] squadron commander to lvl5 is bit to rough... i like battlecruisers, they have one of best models imho but i dont want to train for few months for them and than pay like 300-400m for a ship, i would prefer to get another machariel
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.11.28 15:55:00 - [20] ôOh and Pottsey I'm sure you'll love the idea of passive shield tanking a vulture or nighthawk or in your case as you fly gallente an astarte or eos.ö I almost fall on the floor not believing my results. According to my rough theoretical numbers without gang assist modules a passive shield tank will be about x3 to x4 times more effective then an active tank that can run none stop. Tanking 600DPS (without gang assit) should be easy and you have 80%+ resistance with 20k+ shield hitpoints. Depending on bonusÆs and with gang assist tanking 1000 DPS as a Passive shield tank might be doable. But of course theory and practise are not always the same. Once we know what the bonusÆs are I will be doing lots of pointless math in more detail. That and I am still a little confused with how the new stacking rules, Invul Fields, gang assist and the vulture or nighthawk resistance bonusÆs all stack. But they look like great ships and are at the top of my shopping list. They are perfect for a gang assist passive shield tanking player. I already have all the skills to fly one as well apart form Command ships. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Ralitge boyter	Posted - 2005.11.28 16:07:00 - [21] Well I'm going for that for sure. After one night with a ferox I was hooked and I will certainly want to try the upgraded model. ------------------------------------------- Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me.
Liet Traep	Posted - 2005.11.28 16:13:00 - [22] Originally by: Pottsey ôOh and Pottsey I'm sure you'll love the idea of passive shield tanking a vulture or nighthawk or in your case as you fly gallente an astarte or eos.ö I almost fall on the floor not believing my results. According to my rough theoretical numbers without gang assist modules a passive shield tank will be about x3 to x4 times more effective then an active tank that can run none stop. Tanking 600DPS (without gang assit) should be easy and you have 80%+ resistance with 20k+ shield hitpoints. Depending on bonusÆs and with gang assist tanking 1000 DPS as a Passive shield tank might be doable. But of course theory and practise are not always the same. Once we know what the bonusÆs are I will be doing lots of pointless math in more detail. That and I am still a little confused with how the new stacking rules, Invul Fields, gang assist and the vulture or nighthawk resistance bonusÆs all stack. But they look like great ships and are at the top of my shopping list. They are perfect for a gang assist passive shield tanking player. I already have all the skills to fly one as well apart form Command ships. What setup did you find work best in your testing may i ask?
Munin Crow	Posted - 2005.11.28 16:18:00 - [23] Woha... we need leadership... seriously!? Does that mean that those of us who started with very low leadership are SOL?
Dameon Blackthorne	Posted - 2005.11.28 16:56:00 - [24] Originally by: Munin Crow Woha... we need leadership... seriously!? Does that mean that those of us who started with very low leadership are SOL? Not really, just that those of us who have trained it over the years are better off when it comes to T2 BC's... --Dameon Blackthorne One with your nightmares. Feared by all, known by no one. Blend with darkness, gone. --Death's Guise
Shin Ra	Posted - 2005.11.28 17:27:00 - [25] Edited by: Shin Ra on 28/11/2005 17:28:23 Vulture: Blasters Shield tank DMG control, 4 dmg mods Minmitar ones are good too, dunno if they get shield bonuses but gank + tank setups would be awesome.
Drako Invictus	Posted - 2005.11.28 17:36:00 - [26] skills skills skills íííííííííííí what skillsííí
Crellion	Posted - 2005.11.28 17:43:00 - [27] Big LOL @ CCP for making what looks to be potentially the best combat ships available to "charismatic" characters. I consider this ridiculous. Boo to you mighty Devs. [If you considerdroping gang assist modules and leadership requirements on the "HAC" versions and give them as good or better tamking as logistics version and give combat bonuses only to HAC versions THEN I might consider being your friend again. Until then you are the suxzors ]
Munin Crow	Posted - 2005.11.28 17:44:00 - [28] So, this is probably a good time for me to ask: The stats, how exactly DO they effect the skill? Is it just training time, or does it also affect some of the numeric stats you get when flying the ship (such as damage, etc)? Thanks again (and sorry if its a dumb question. I am still wading my way through learning about EVE).
Hoshi	Posted - 2005.11.28 18:03:00 - [29] Originally by: Drako Invictus skills skills skills íííííííííííí what skillsííí Here they are, this is for the caldari versions, only replace the race cruiser skill for the others. Skills
KilROCK	Posted - 2005.11.28 18:05:00 - [30] Oh joy, and i thought my abnormaly high charisma was useless
BlueOrca	Posted - 2005.11.28 18:29:00 - [31] I just hope thet the stats are just for show, if not any of the T2 Brutixs are not worth buying!
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.11.28 18:37:00 - [32] Here we see the end of any kind of solo pvp. If T2 BC will have HAC abilities, then we look at a ship without any engaging limits apart from engaging nossing-BS wich will still be able to counter somewhow. But other ship stand no chance in the world against for example Minmatar T2 Cyclone with 7 220 IIs or even better 7 425 IIs. It will rip apart every single ship that will engage it and wont be able to drain its cap dry. Same goes for other T2 BCs. So now what we see is that all HAC specialized pilots can do a nice thing and throw ages of training into a garbage can. people who trained HAC 5 and other related skills to 5 now go nerfed without a single chance against a ' New Vagabond' with +50% DPS and Defence, or a 'New Deimos' with even more DPS. Nice move! You just forced people to fly bigger ships....and completly nerfed those who putted ages of training into one particular HAC. Thanks a whole lot. -=-
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.11.28 18:47:00 - [33] Originally by: KilROCK Edited by: KilROCK on 28/11/2005 18:05:25 Oh joy, and i thought my high charisma was useless Yeah goodie goodie, squadron command is a bit of a pain though. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
FalloutBoy	Posted - 2005.11.28 18:51:00 - [34] oh god the tech 2 brutix can fit a full rack of neutrons, MWD, and dual medium rep tank and have grid left over and people complained about hacs being a mobile pwn mobile
Shira d'Radonis	Posted - 2005.11.28 18:51:00 - [35] I dunno... Squad Command V for the assault battle cruisers seems excessive to me though I can understand it for the logistical ship... I mean, it just seems to me that if you have two different kinds of ships, it should cater to two different kinds of people who have followed very different skill paths. Are both getting gang assist module bonuses? I think this should be limited to the logistical ship if that's not already the case. ----------------------------------------------- ôàquod ad ius naturale attinet, omnes homines aequales suntö
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.11.28 18:55:00 - [36] Originally by: Sky Hunter Here we see the end of any kind of solo pvp. If T2 BC will have HAC abilities, then we look at a ship without any engaging limits apart from engaging nossing-BS wich will still be able to counter somewhow. But other ship stand no chance in the world against for example Minmatar T2 Cyclone with 7 220 IIs or even better 7 425 IIs. It will rip apart every single ship that will engage it and wont be able to drain its cap dry. Same goes for other T2 BCs. So now what we see is that all HAC specialized pilots can do a nice thing and throw ages of training into a garbage can. people who trained HAC 5 and other related skills to 5 now go nerfed without a single chance against a ' New Vagabond' with +50% DPS and Defence, or a 'New Deimos' with even more DPS. Nice move! You just forced people to fly bigger ships....and completly nerfed those who putted ages of training into one particular HAC. Thanks a whole lot. Only thing that is lost is HAC lvl 5, everything else is still usable, it takes a butload more training into leadership, and is slower and a helluvalot bigger sig wise. Would the assault style BC rip a HAC a new one, quite likely so. But I'd rather fly my HAC against a BS then a BC. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.11.28 19:16:00 - [37] Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Sky Hunter Here we see the end of any kind of solo pvp. If T2 BC will have HAC abilities, then we look at a ship without any engaging limits apart from engaging nossing-BS wich will still be able to counter somewhow. But other ship stand no chance in the world against for example Minmatar T2 Cyclone with 7 220 IIs or even better 7 425 IIs. It will rip apart every single ship that will engage it and wont be able to drain its cap dry. Same goes for other T2 BCs. So now what we see is that all HAC specialized pilots can do a nice thing and throw ages of training into a garbage can. people who trained HAC 5 and other related skills to 5 now go nerfed without a single chance against a ' New Vagabond' with +50% DPS and Defence, or a 'New Deimos' with even more DPS. Nice move! You just forced people to fly bigger ships....and completly nerfed those who putted ages of training into one particular HAC. Thanks a whole lot. Only thing that is lost is HAC lvl 5, everything else is still usable, it takes a butload more training into leadership, and is slower and a helluvalot bigger sig wise. Would the assault style BC rip a HAC a new one, quite likely so. But I'd rather fly my HAC against a BS then a BC. Like people said here already, everyone who can will fly T2 BC rather then BS. And i dont like that any training is lost. HAC lvl 5 is a long skill, so people who trained it need to use it. Now HAC is most focused pvp/combat ship. Why change it? Why add another 'i win' button? To nerf it later on and make people again trash their time and efforts? I really dont see the goal it this 'nerf up, nerf down' game that developers playing atm. want to try keep game interesting? Dont brake people`s specializations! -=-
Helmut Rul	Posted - 2005.11.28 19:21:00 - [38] Edited by: Helmut Rul on 28/11/2005 19:24:07 I must say that i continue to be impressed by this bizzarre sense of entitlement that some of the HAC users have, It seems almost like they experienced an personal insult or feel betrayed because their favored ship is not king of the hill anymore. After all this is nothing new just about every other class of ships(excepting perhaps interceptors) have been pushed off the pedestal some of them repeatedly. Unless i am mistaken no Dev have ever gone on record saying that HACs will be the ultimate ships in eve from the moment of their creation to the end of the game. Bring on the assault battleships i say. (yes i know i exaggerate, Most HAC users are perfectly fine people as are most other eve players. But i am amazed by those that scream with outrage at the idea that the Devs may want to introduce other ships that in some way outperform their favourite class.)
Shira d'Radonis	Posted - 2005.11.28 19:32:00 - [39] Any game is going to require tweaking over time. Most things that have been nerfed have been done so because they were overpowered somehow. It's not meant to make one group able to dominate the others for a length of time. Hopefully, when they make it onto the Tranquility server, the t2 BC's will have a role that they will play and will be rather limited outside of that role... as it should be. And also hopefully the HAC will have a place now rather than being an all-purpose killing machine. ----------------------------------------------- ôàquod ad ius naturale attinet, omnes homines aequales suntö
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.11.28 19:38:00 - [40] Well it's not that hard to understand really, HACs rule, I'm a maxed out deimos pilot, if you ignore the lack of drone spec 5, that's a lot of skillpoints, and they're beautiful ships. Having to retrain cause there's something that does what HACs do!!!! better then a HAC is a idea that is gonna inspire some anger and OMGNO feelings. But I seriously doubt that they'll become better HACs. They're too slow, and too big, they better not get damage bonuses though. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2005.11.28 19:42:00 - [41] Originally by: Hoshi Here are screens with the stats of all the tech 2 BCs, the text logistics/hac I have added note which one of the requiers the Hac and which requiers the Logistics skill. Amarr Caldari Gallante Minmatar Wait just a damn second, the nighthawk is the assult BC and it has worse resists than the logistics ship? ------------------------------------ Quote: 1 Billion isk currently sells on ebay for about $225 90 day GTC $38.95 Currently selling for 300mill Therefore 1Bill isk costs you $129.50.
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.11.28 19:43:00 - [42] Yes, and better offense, the all out support one has better tanking. Makes sense. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Shadowsword	Posted - 2005.11.28 19:52:00 - [43] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Wait just a damn second, the nighthawk is the assult BC and it has worse resists than the logistics ship? That's because the combat command battlecruisers aren't meant to be the Be-All-End-All of Eve... Well, not quite anyway, they still are almost as slow than a BS and almost as easy to hit, but that wouldn't matter all that much if they had assault-like resistances, and they would solo lv4 and maybe even the future lv5 missions without breaking a sweat. The Fleet command battlecruisers, on the other hand, will be primary targets of any battle, so they need something more in the way of survivability.
Helmut Rul	Posted - 2005.11.28 20:00:00 - [44] That is my point Gariuys, HACs rule. And most of those that use HACs have had a year or more of virtually unopposed reign as the ship of choice for just about anything except mission running, Over this year almost everything else in the game have changed but still the HACs are top dogs. It is now time to reward those players that have been taking "unpopular" choices, Those who have trained gang skills, those who have been using Battlecruisers and other ships that have fallen by the side as the juggernaut that is the HAC trampled them into the dust all these months ago. While i do understand the complaint about the new ships stealing the HACs spotlight the simple thruth is that any ship that are going to enjoy widespread use in EvE needs to do and take damage otherwise they get relegated to perhaps important but still very narrow niches(And no the HAC being a badass pwnmobile is not a niche). I also symphatize with those of you that do not look forward to the chore of training up a ton of new skills but that is for good or bad the basic way EvE works, I have myself trained up for frigates, cruisers, battleships then interceptors arrived then assault ships then heavy assault ships then covert ops and i have trained them all, not to speak of that the last year i have trained up both the entire new set of EW skills and also the new set of missile skills that both essentialy just allowed me to use EW and missiles in the same way as before, my point is not that you are wrong in feeling bummed about having to train new skills but that almost everyone that have played in EvE for a while have experienced the same.
Shira d'Radonis	Posted - 2005.11.28 20:00:00 - [45] Yeah, at least at the moment, an enemy fleet is not entirely sure whether a BC in the fight has gang assist modules or not or which do and which do not... but when you start seeing the logistic battlecruisers out there, it'll take about two seconds to figure out who you should be locking weapons on The logistics ships definitely need a defensive edge. ----------------------------------------------- ôàquod ad ius naturale attinet, omnes homines aequales suntö
Tolan	Posted - 2005.11.28 20:44:00 - [46] yup, will be fantastic, lovely ships ... but before you get those skills trained....yet another T2 release with limited T2 BPO's....will become the most exclusive and expensive ships on market, destined only for the extremely rich HAC's now > 100 -150 mil wonder how much T2 BC's will go for.....??? maybe im being too cynical..but it would be such a shame if all this developement and content is just destined for a small percentage of the player base.
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.11.28 20:54:00 - [47] Originally by: Helmut Rul Edited by: Helmut Rul on 28/11/2005 19:24:07 I must say that i continue to be impressed by this bizzarre sense of entitlement that some of the HAC users have, It seems almost like they experienced an personal insult or feel betrayed because their favored ship is not king of the hill anymore. After all this is nothing new just about every other class of ships(excepting perhaps interceptors) have been pushed off the pedestal some of them repeatedly. Unless i am mistaken no Dev have ever gone on record saying that HACs will be the ultimate ships in eve from the moment of their creation to the end of the game. Bring on the assault battleships i say. (yes i know i exaggerate, Most HAC users are perfectly fine people as are most other eve players. But i am amazed by those that scream with outrage at the idea that the Devs may want to introduce other ships that in some way outperform their favourite class.) HACs arent a top-ships at all. Thats my point mate, you can loose your HAC to a smart setted BC or BS pretty easy. HAC do have engaging limitations, while the BC will have even less. I mean even tho their dont have damage bonuses, they still have more tankig abilities, wich will give them chance to tank anything no problem, or at least tank till you bring target down. Now what we will see if youd say and we suddenyl get Assalut BS? Imagine yourself living in 0.0. Now imagine yourself a T2 tempest(Vagabond analog), hopping into system....lets see....speed would be like 200m/s base, so about 500m/s with AB II....now add to it insane resistances and insane dmg output from 7x Dual 650 IIs.(For an example lets say T2 Tempest will have 7 turret slots). Now.....what you gonna counter this with? Any BS getting close to this one will die. hence this thing will take down 2 BS and wont even get its hull scratched. Yay for another 'i win' button? Now what would happen to HAC if it would try to take on any target pilot see? He would loose it very very fast, sicne like i said, alot of people think that HAC is unltimate ship that puts down anything it engages.....no way. It does have good amount of ships and setups in cant counter, or can counter but with great risk. -=-
Ghoest	Posted - 2005.11.28 21:04:00 - [48] These guys like Sky Hunter ***** me up.
Stratosfear	Posted - 2005.11.28 21:06:00 - [49] Anyone else expecting their BPO's to produce 2-3 ships a week, with extreme prices being charged? Before you get too excited, these will be 200-300m ships. Yes, you can buy one or two, but you won't be able to replace em easily.
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.11.28 21:09:00 - [50] ôWait just a damn second, the nighthawk is the assult BC and it has worse resists than the logistics ship?" The Logistics are not really full Logistics ships but Command ships for Commanders. ItÆs pretty normal for Commanders to be in the toughest ships. I see no problem for the Full command ships to have better resistanceÆs then the HAC version as long as they have less fire power. The problem is most people think of the pure command ship as a Logistical support ship. DonÆt think of them like thatÆs, they have the Logistics skill but they are not pure logistic ships. ôWhat setup did you find work best in your testing may i ask?ö Well itÆs only theory numbers. 2 Invul Fields seem to give better results then 1 Field and if you use 3 gang assist and 2 fields thatÆs 20ish cap/sec drain. So a full shield relay setup wonÆt work. You have to use PDS or a mix of PDS and relays Tank wise no gang assist, missiles so no cap drain and pure shield relays is best. But not using gang assist feels wrong so I would say 2 shield relays and the rest PDS modules. I also didnÆt factor in gang assist resistance boost as I donÆt know how it stacks with the fields. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Helmut Rul	Posted - 2005.11.28 21:29:00 - [51] Edited by: Helmut Rul on 28/11/2005 21:32:13 Sky Hunter HACs are top ships otherwise there would not be such a demand for them and people would certainly not be paying 140 million or so for many of them neither would they have to have month long waiting lists for them. While HAcs are not invulnerable that does not mean that HACs are not the most favoured ships today with an amazing blending of firepower tanking speed and agility. Honestly just what would constitute a top ship from your point of wiew ? I also agree that it makes sense for the command ship to have better tanking than the damage focused ship after all if there ever was a ship that would be called primary that is the command ship.
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.11.28 21:30:00 - [52] Originally by: Ghoest These guys like Sky Hunter ***** me up. Maybe because your trained all races and now sit happy? If you didnt noticed, some people like to have focused skill path... -=-
Evil Edna	Posted - 2005.11.28 21:43:00 - [53] Originally by: FalloutBoy oh god the tech 2 brutix can fit a full rack of neutrons, MWD, and dual medium rep tank and have grid left over and people complained about hacs being a mobile pwn mobile drool Killboard.co.uk In game channel kr0m-public
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.11.28 21:52:00 - [54] Originally by: Sky Hunter Originally by: Ghoest These guys like Sky Hunter ***** me up. Maybe because your trained all races and now sit happy? If you didnt noticed, some people like to have focused skill path... And you focused on HACs. So you are going to miss out on the Command ships. ~Captain Cutie, ISC Event Horizon Biomass fears me. Sovereignty 2.0
Ghoest	Posted - 2005.11.28 21:53:00 - [55] Actually I only fly 2 races. BTW really cant understand why the forum turned that word into "******". Its a slang for "laughter" or "crazy" nothing bad about it.
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.11.29 09:57:00 - [56] Originally by: FalloutBoy oh god the tech 2 brutix can fit a full rack of neutrons, MWD, and dual medium rep tank and have grid left over and people complained about hacs being a mobile pwn mobile Yeah.. but imagine the price .. Ouch.. With great power, comes great responsibility.
Critta	Posted - 2005.11.29 10:36:00 - [57] Originally by: Sky Hunter Here we see the end of any kind of solo pvp. If T2 BC will have HAC abilities, then we look at a ship without any engaging limits apart from engaging nossing-BS wich will still be able to counter somewhow. But other ship stand no chance in the world against for example Minmatar T2 Cyclone with 7 220 IIs or even better 7 425 IIs. It will rip apart every single ship that will engage it and wont be able to drain its cap dry. Same goes for other T2 BCs. So now what we see is that all HAC specialized pilots can do a nice thing and throw ages of training into a garbage can. people who trained HAC 5 and other related skills to 5 now go nerfed without a single chance against a ' New Vagabond' with +50% DPS and Defence, or a 'New Deimos' with even more DPS. Nice move! You just forced people to fly bigger ships....and completly nerfed those who putted ages of training into one particular HAC. Thanks a whole lot. So, some rough stats have been put up on the test server and already the sky is falling around us? Chill dude. I'm sure once the original rush of "must have a t2 BC" has passed, everyone will realise that they're to expensive to fly, and we'll all go back to flying what we were flying before. Nobody's being forced to do anything, last I checked we got free reign to do what we like in eve.. including choosing what ships we train for and fly. Hey, you never know, HAC prices may even get cheaper :-D
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.11.29 10:39:00 - [58] Originally by: Critta Originally by: Sky Hunter Here we see the end of any kind of solo pvp. If T2 BC will have HAC abilities, then we look at a ship without any engaging limits apart from engaging nossing-BS wich will still be able to counter somewhow. But other ship stand no chance in the world against for example Minmatar T2 Cyclone with 7 220 IIs or even better 7 425 IIs. It will rip apart every single ship that will engage it and wont be able to drain its cap dry. Same goes for other T2 BCs. So now what we see is that all HAC specialized pilots can do a nice thing and throw ages of training into a garbage can. people who trained HAC 5 and other related skills to 5 now go nerfed without a single chance against a ' New Vagabond' with +50% DPS and Defence, or a 'New Deimos' with even more DPS. Nice move! You just forced people to fly bigger ships....and completly nerfed those who putted ages of training into one particular HAC. Thanks a whole lot. So, some rough stats have been put up on the test server and already the sky is falling around us? Chill dude. I'm sure once the original rush of "must have a t2 BC" has passed, everyone will realise that they're to expensive to fly, and we'll all go back to flying what we were flying before. Nobody's being forced to do anything, last I checked we got free reign to do what we like in eve.. including choosing what ships we train for and fly. Hey, you never know, HAC prices may even get cheaper :-D Amen. My words exactly.. They will cost a S***load of isk, and the waiting time anyone ?.. ouch! /Mav With great power, comes great responsibility.
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.11.29 10:41:00 - [59] Originally by: BlueOrca I just hope thet the stats are just for show, if not any of the T2 Brutixs are not worth buying! Uhm ?.. why ?.. Full rack t2 neutrons, 2x t2 med reps(or faction), MWD + cap injector... ? Now thats kick ass.. But as said above again and again -> Teh Price! With great power, comes great responsibility.
Elfaen Ethenwe	Posted - 2005.11.29 11:13:00 - [60] just comparing the versions. weird how each race has a seperate weekness / strength. amarr = explosive... caldari - thermal (yey) gallante = kinetic minmatar = em These numbers have to be wrong... You could tank like a B****** with these things. Command cruiser with officer hardners 4tw
TuRtLe HeAd	Posted - 2005.11.29 11:25:00 - [61] Yep they do look pretty nice. Is the skill set thats on sisi going to be the same when they come onto Main server ?
Feta Solamnia	Posted - 2005.11.29 11:34:00 - [62] If they turn out to be as usefull as indicated, I bet their price will be >200m when enough people have skills for them Originally by: Oveur I have access to all market data. Believe me, we have not reached anything close to deflation yet.
Goberth Ludwig	Posted - 2005.11.29 11:34:00 - [63] I bet whoever win a bpo of those HABC will be an happy fellow - Gob (also known as Admiral Goberius)
Ilmonstre	Posted - 2005.11.29 11:36:00 - [64] oooh finally a ship i am not gonna train for yay for me
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2005.11.29 11:37:00 - [65] The module you need to use more than one gang assist module requires squadron command 5, so that kinda makes sense for the command ship variant, doesn't really make sense for both unless they can both use multiple gang assist modules though. . ----- Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Darwinia	Posted - 2005.11.29 11:39:00 - [66] Originally by: Tolan yup, will be fantastic, lovely ships ... but before you get those skills trained....yet another T2 release with limited T2 BPO's....will become the most exclusive and expensive ships on market, destined only for the extremely rich HAC's now > 100 -150 mil wonder how much T2 BC's will go for.....??? maybe im being too cynical..but it would be such a shame if all this developement and content is just destined for a small percentage of the player base. My guesstimate would be 400-500 mil.. 50 mil covered by insurance
Yarek Balear	Posted - 2005.11.29 11:50:00 - [67] Gotta laugh at all the "Oh no, I'm a hac pilot, my time is wasted" comments. They're kinda like "Oh no, a BMW M3 is faster than my 1972 Vauxhaul Viva, all that time I spent hand-painting stripes on the side was a waste !!!" and yes - I'm a HAC pilot, but bring it on I say - more diversity the better. As for the whining... get a grip and evolve with the game - it's one of the things that keeps people playing and keep bringing new people in - which is the ultimate goal, otherwise we'd all lose interest and the game would die...
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.11.29 12:43:00 - [68] Originally by: Yarek Balear Gotta laugh at all the "Oh no, I'm a hac pilot, my time is wasted" comments. They're kinda like "Oh no, a BMW M3 is faster than my 1972 Vauxhaul Viva, all that time I spent hand-painting stripes on the side was a waste !!!" and yes - I'm a HAC pilot, but bring it on I say - more diversity the better. As for the whining... get a grip and evolve with the game - it's one of the things that keeps people playing and keep bringing new people in - which is the ultimate goal, otherwise we'd all lose interest and the game would die... Qft. With great power, comes great responsibility.
Any Targrt	Posted - 2005.11.29 12:53:00 - [69] Originally by: Sky Hunter Here we see the end of any kind of solo pvp. If T2 BC will have HAC abilities, then we look at a ship without any engaging limits apart from engaging nossing-BS wich will still be able to counter somewhow. But other ship stand no chance in the world against for example Minmatar T2 Cyclone with 7 220 IIs or even better 7 425 IIs. It will rip apart every single ship that will engage it and wont be able to drain its cap dry. Same goes for other T2 BCs. So now what we see is that all HAC specialized pilots can do a nice thing and throw ages of training into a garbage can. people who trained HAC 5 and other related skills to 5 now go nerfed without a single chance against a ' New Vagabond' with +50% DPS and Defence, or a 'New Deimos' with even more DPS. Nice move! You just forced people to fly bigger ships....and completly nerfed those who putted ages of training into one particular HAC. Thanks a whole lot. It won't be able to counter a jamming, nossing Dom! You are been a little narrow minded and CCP don't want 1v1 they want team play
Kunming	Posted - 2005.11.29 12:56:00 - [70] I got HAC lvl 5 trained and I'm really looking forward to the T2 BCs (even though it means alot of training for me). Btw fyi, 1vs1 a BC could take on a HAC and survive without going to hull. It was always a stronger ship so cant see the problem here. HACs are faster and more agile, they are kinda the nemesis design of BSs which have a really hard time against HACs. BCs on the other hand are more like the HAC killers. BSs shouldnt have much of a difficulty to take on BCs, since they are not as agile as HACs. I'd say we have to wait and see how this will impact combat before we throw in wild theories on the forums. Website Killboard
Any Targrt	Posted - 2005.11.29 12:59:00 - [71] Originally by: Sky Hunter Originally by: Helmut Rul Edited by: Helmut Rul on 28/11/2005 19:24:07 I must say that i continue to be impressed by this bizzarre sense of entitlement that some of the HAC users have, It seems almost like they experienced an personal insult or feel betrayed because their favored ship is not king of the hill anymore. After all this is nothing new just about every other class of ships(excepting perhaps interceptors) have been pushed off the pedestal some of them repeatedly. Unless i am mistaken no Dev have ever gone on record saying that HACs will be the ultimate ships in eve from the moment of their creation to the end of the game. Bring on the assault battleships i say. (yes i know i exaggerate, Most HAC users are perfectly fine people as are most other eve players. But i am amazed by those that scream with outrage at the idea that the Devs may want to introduce other ships that in some way outperform their favourite class.) HACs arent a top-ships at all. Thats my point mate, you can loose your HAC to a smart setted BC or BS pretty easy. HAC do have engaging limitations, while the BC will have even less. I mean even tho their dont have damage bonuses, they still have more tankig abilities, wich will give them chance to tank anything no problem, or at least tank till you bring target down. Now what we will see if youd say and we suddenyl get Assalut BS? Imagine yourself living in 0.0. Now imagine yourself a T2 tempest(Vagabond analog), hopping into system....lets see....speed would be like 200m/s base, so about 500m/s with AB II....now add to it insane resistances and insane dmg output from 7x Dual 650 IIs.(For an example lets say T2 Tempest will have 7 turret slots). Now.....what you gonna counter this with? Any BS getting close to this one will die. hence this thing will take down 2 BS and wont even get its hull scratched. Yay for another 'i win' button? Now what would happen to HAC if it would try to take on any target pilot see? He would loose it very very fast, sicne like i said, alot of people think that HAC is unltimate ship that puts down anything it engages.....no way. It does have good amount of ships and setups in cant counter, or can counter but with great risk. Again to Sky, you are so narrow minded, a black bird could jam, scramble, NOS (to run jammers) and missile the drones then hold it there till a lovley t1 frig fleet pop along and boom it. Get out of the box people change is good!
shakaZ XIV	Posted - 2005.11.29 13:00:00 - [72] If you trained HAC lvl 5, you took the risk of putting all your "eggs in 1 basket". I hope the command BC's won't go the way of the Logistics Cruiser, by having too high skill req's, in otherwise pretty useless skills. I'm pretty sure that won't happen though, as these ships are actually "good". :P
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.11.29 13:28:00 - [73] Edited by: Pottsey on 29/11/2005 13:32:49 ôAlso anyone noticed that T2 BCs have lower resists then HACs? Is it same even on those fighting BCs?ö Once you take into account the 25% resistance bonus from the base T1 BCÆs and the 15%+ from gang assist they have better resistanceÆs then HACÆs. That and half the T2 BCÆs have the same not lower resistance then HACÆs without the 25% bonus or gang assit. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Khaldorn Murino	Posted - 2005.11.29 13:47:00 - [74] Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 29/11/2005 13:32:49 ôAlso anyone noticed that T2 BCs have lower resists then HACs? Is it same even on those fighting BCs?ö Once you take into account the 25% resistance bonus from the base T1 BCÆs and the 15%+ from gang assist they have better resistanceÆs then HACÆs. That and half the T2 BCÆs have the same not lower resistance then HACÆs without the 25% bonus or gang assit. Only half the BC's have the resistance bonus Pottsey. - Just a simple warrior.
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.11.29 14:44:00 - [75] Edited by: Sky Hunter on 29/11/2005 14:45:58 Originally by: shakaZ XIV If you trained HAC lvl 5, you took the risk of putting all your "eggs in 1 basket". I hope the command BC's won't go the way of the Logistics Cruiser, by having too high skill req's, in otherwise pretty useless skills. I'm pretty sure that won't happen though, as these ships are actually "good". :P Thats the exact point of specialization. Im not narrow minded and i already pointed out that HAC do have engaging limits like against blackbirds and some BC setups. Also CCP should understand that theres alot of pilots who actually dont like 'oh noes 50vs50 people blob warfare'. Where the sucess is only dependant mostly on how good fleet commander is and how fast pilots can react on his commands. No decissions from pilot needed, no expirience gain as how to avoid chase, how to use scanner, how to pick your targets. More of that, the most dmg in any war is done not via blobs but via guerilla warfare, means solo or small group. In fleet combat each side looses closely equal number of ships. Unless ofc heavily outgunned/outnumbered/out exprienced(for example alliance with industrial edge vs alliance with pvp edge). So dont say theres not enough solo or small group pvp pilots. It gives alot of expirience....you learn alot more things about pvp and how it works... Like above people said, making a T2 BC requre skills to lvl 5 with Charisma is bad. I doubt anyone from pvp pilots even bothered with Charisma. Making mostly supporting skill tree and combat skill tree to meet up in one point? I mean who here from those who pvp constantly and arent doing any gang leading duties, have any of the new gang skills trained? Or logistics? I doubt everyone. And i doubt even half. Im not against T2 BC. I like the idea, but dont make them 'i win' button. HAC arent that button at all, like already been pointed a single HAC can be brought down without problems. Just need to do it with right approach. -=-
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.11.29 15:42:00 - [76] Edited by: Gariuys on 29/11/2005 15:44:05 I ment HACs rule as in I love em to death, cause they're the thing I love to fly, just fast enough, and not too fast too make it twitch like inties, I like the style. Saying they're the top dogs of eve is complete bull. Good BCs can give em a run for their money, and so can BSs in more ways then just a couple of heavy nos/neut. And a lot of them have issues against the really fast ships as well. And for long range engagements, well my money is still on the BS. But I was already planning on going for the BC next, I've run out of stuff to train for my HAC, or close enough that the benefits hardly matter. Really don't like the idea of HACs becoming a cheaper t2 BC, but that's it. And t2 BC won't be a I win button, will they become powerful, without a doubt, but BS will always have the range advantage, and can run a better tank, hard to come close to XL boosters, and Large reps with med sized boosters and reps, even when you get a couple of free hardners fitted. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.11.29 16:47:00 - [77] ôOnly half the BC's have the resistance bonus Pottsey.ö All of then have access to a resistance bonus, it just the amount changeÆs ship to ship. All get a minimum of 15% to all resistance from gang assist with decent skills. Half of them get a further 25% on top of that 15%. The 15% might even be higher depending on the ships other bonus and implants. I would say 15% minimum and possibly 40% max at a guess for all BCÆs then add on 25% for half of them. Another half of the BCÆs have the same base resistanceÆs as HACÆs without the above bonusÆs. ôLike above people said, making a T2 BC requre skills to lvl 5 with Charisma is bad.ö ItÆs not a bad idea itÆs about time us high Charisma leadership people got our own ships. There are enough combat ships how it is. At long last we know have a Command ship and it makes perfect sense for it to need Charisma based skills. I donÆt see any good reason to change the ships away from Charisma based skills. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.11.29 18:47:00 - [78] Well then i doubt anyone with 9 charisma will train lvl 5 skill just to waste their training time when they can train 2-3x more SP on the other skill. Ah and btw, maxxing HAC skills isnt just T2 gun spec to lvl 5 and HAC to lvl 5. I meant most part of navigation to lvl 5 as well same as gunnery in such skills like trajectory analysis and surgical strike....i myself arent there yet...but thats what im going for and i like this path. -=-
SengH	Posted - 2005.11.29 18:50:00 - [79] Lets be honest here... the people who are really winning are those with balanced stats... The command cruisers require 2 charisma primary 4 perp primary and 2 intel primary skills those with balanced stats slighly skewed towards perp/intel are the reall winners. Everyone who has unbalanced stats is shafted.
keepiru	Posted - 2005.11.29 18:52:00 - [80] I R a winnah then \o/ ------------- Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
xenorx	Posted - 2005.11.29 19:37:00 - [81] Originally by: Liet Traep Well there are 2 elite bc's for each race. Each Battle ship requires BC 5, racial cruiser 5, Command ships 1. Command ships requires leadership 5 and squadron command 5. Additionally one Elite BC of each race requires logistics 4. So most pilots including most HAC pilots will need a bit of training before they can use one. The damnation one is a khanid ship and has the half turrets/half missiles thing going which I don't like. The 2 brutix based ones look insane. I can see those shredding BS and HAC's in combat. Oh and they put up the stats for the interdictors, t2 destroyers also. But that's another thread for another day. Are these skill requirements accurate? I fully expected the BC skill to lvl 5 and the racial cruisers skill to lvl 5. I also expected some other skill or two to have to be at lvl 5. So far no problem here. However, I dont see any mention of the Heavy Assault Ship Skill! In my mind these ships are just gonna be a heavier version of a heavy assault ship. Why no heavy assault ship lvl 4-5 in those requirements I wonder.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.11.29 19:43:00 - [82] Edited by: j0sephine on 29/11/2005 19:44:37 "All of then have access to a resistance bonus, it just the amount changeÆs ship to ship. All get a minimum of 15% to all resistance from gang assist with decent skills." By this logic all EVE ships have access to 15% resistance bonus, because you can get any of them in gang with a ship that runs necessary module. Which is somewhat pointless thing to state, then, since it's nothing ship class-specific. (just because the ship in question is tech.2 battlecruiser designed for using gang modules doesn't automagically mean the pilot will be trained in that particular branch, nor that they'll be running that particular module)
SengH	Posted - 2005.11.29 19:48:00 - [83] If your gonna spend close to 2 mil SP training for squadron command 5 you might as well get a gang assist mod bonus to take advantage of it.
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.11.29 19:49:00 - [84] Originally by: SengH If your gonna spend close to 2 mil SP training for squadron command 5 you might as well get a gang assist mod bonus to take advantage of it. Er right, but theres 4 trees for gang assist and only 2 of them have resistance modules.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.11.29 19:53:00 - [85] "If your gonna spend close to 2 mil SP training for squadron command 5 you might as well get a gang assist mod bonus to take advantage of it." Yes, but only as long as the fleet you're part of doesn't request you to run different (set of) gang modules, because it happens to suit whatever they're doing better... -.o
SengH	Posted - 2005.11.29 19:54:00 - [86] Edited by: SengH on 29/11/2005 19:54:24 Only one of the 2 is specific to the bonuses of the BC that your currently flying. Edit: Its only an extra 2 mil SP to be able to use all 4 sets of gang mods....
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.11.29 20:01:00 - [87] ôBy this logic all EVE ships have access to 15% resistance bonus, because you can get any of them in gang with a ship that runs necessary module. Which is somewhat pointless thing to state, then, since it's nothing ship class-specific. (just because the ship in question is tech.2 battlecruiser designed for using gang modules doesn't automagically mean the pilot will be trained in that particular branch, nor that they'll be running that particular module)ö You have to have one of the needed skills for that 15% at level 5 just to fly the ship and only BC can fit the modules. When the skill that gives that large resistance bonus is in the skill list needed to fly the ship and only that class of ship can fit the module I think its fair to say that ship has access to the boost. I choose the word access as its clear not all the pilots will choose that module. ôEr right, but theres 4 trees for gang assist and only 2 of them have resistance modules.ö Good point but the 4th tree Information Warfair is useless and as far as I know nobody useÆs those modules. So 2 out of the 3 useful tress give a resistance bonus. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.11.29 20:05:00 - [88] ôYes, but only as long as the fleet you're part of doesn't request you to run different (set of) gang modules, because it happens to suit whatever they're doing better... -.oö I always take two sets with me I even have two sets fitted on my T1 BC, it gives fleet/gang leaders more options. For the T2 ship just run both sets at once or 1 set + the resistance module. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.11.29 20:10:00 - [89] Edited by: Hllaxiu on 29/11/2005 20:10:16 Originally by: Pottsey ôEr right, but theres 4 trees for gang assist and only 2 of them have resistance modules.ö Good point but the 4th tree Information Warfair is useless and as far as I know nobody useÆs those modules. So 2 out of the 3 useful tress give a resistance bonus. /me looks at his Gallente specialist skills, then at the Eos and cries
Shadrin	Posted - 2005.11.29 20:38:00 - [90] I have to say, this is an exciting time for a pilot just starting to think about specializing in T2 ships. I also am excited that my high charisma that I didn't know to avoid, is going to help me later on. ------------------------------------ Shadrin Gemini Investment and Trading Company Making your money work for you.
ric0	Posted - 2005.11.29 21:30:00 - [91] finaly a reason to train up the charisma/leadership skills :)
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.11.29 21:41:00 - [92] Still not worth it for some of those who didnt trained charisma or didnt payed attention to it....will loose more time while can use same time alot more effectively to train BS lvl 5 for example. -=-
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.11.30 17:22:00 - [93] Originally by: Sky Hunter Still not worth it for some of those who didnt trained charisma or didnt payed attention to it....will loose more time while can use same time alot more effectively to train BS lvl 5 for example. It's unfair that all gunnery stuff has perception as primary, cause I'm intaki and started the game with only 3..... Just have to suck it up, but I'm sure as hell glad I didn't ignore any of my attributes, and can be in such a nice shippy by the time they're available.. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Sadayiel	Posted - 2005.11.30 19:07:00 - [94] Edited by: Sadayiel on 30/11/2005 19:10:01 From my point of view, new Bc aren't as bad as much of the HAC's pilot whine. The Bc tech II are lot expensive than just HAC's so get for sure they are not going to face them lot of times, also if you see one, the movility and response gives you the advantage to avoid it ( as sure you will do with a well fitted close range blasterthron right?) they just balance the HAc's use so you will keep in mind some warp stabs and not just weapon mods to increase dmg i think Bc may change before get in Tranquility lowering their dmg abilitys but keeping the tank ones (they are there to survive and lead others not to ripe any ship they face) The skills needed are a pain and it seems a real major specialization, so not all ppl will go behind those, and i still believe 3 or 4 HAC gang together is cheaper to build and can ripe those Bc without much trouble. P.S. you can keep fliying Hac by 1vs 1 just keep care of any tech 2 BC also any guy single fliying those things is just wasting lot of cash and skills in a ship made for Group that prolly can be kicked by a decent pvp BS fitted.
Rafein	Posted - 2005.11.30 19:37:00 - [95] I remembe seeing the bonus to the Vulture? The gun based Caldari BC. had the Ferox bonuses for BC. And 10% optimal range and 5% RoF for mediums for the other set of bonuses. so fully trained, +100% optimal range
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.11.30 19:42:00 - [96] Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Sky Hunter Still not worth it for some of those who didnt trained charisma or didnt payed attention to it....will loose more time while can use same time alot more effectively to train BS lvl 5 for example. It's unfair that all gunnery stuff has perception as primary, cause I'm intaki and started the game with only 3..... Just have to suck it up, but I'm sure as hell glad I didn't ignore any of my attributes, and can be in such a nice shippy by the time they're available.. Notice that im also Intaki and Gallente, but i just setted my attributes right, gladly i was starting a game under advices from more expirienced friend -=-
Sadayiel	Posted - 2005.11.30 20:19:00 - [97] Originally by: Gariuys It's unfair that all gunnery stuff has perception as primary, cause I'm intaki and started the game with only 3..... Just have to suck it up, but I'm sure as hell glad I didn't ignore any of my attributes, and can be in such a nice shippy by the time they're available.. why it's unfair, the skills are there and you only need a couple of days to learn how the attributes work (not a great loss of time) Also Gallentes are not supposed to be the best fighters (prolly they avoided wide battles until the caldari/gallente war) each race have their good and bad points, the only difference counts in the time to learn, also perception as primary is common sense if you can't see your enemy or spot the weak points then is useless fire to your enemy right?
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.11.30 21:16:00 - [98] Well...any race and bloodline can be good combat character...all depends on creation path really... -=-
velocoraptor	Posted - 2005.12.02 04:03:00 - [99] Originally by: Pottsey “whats skills are required for there ships?” A number of level 5 leadership skills which need Charisma. Tough luck on all those with Charisma in the single digits. Hey, could I dare to assume that I was right to insist on getting my charisma to 18 (scot lvl 4)!!!?? Eeeeer, what? No? Still a mistake to loose all that time? Baaah, whatever
Lucian Alucard	Posted - 2005.12.02 10:17:00 - [100] Edited by: Lucian Alucard on 02/12/2005 10:23:55 heres an idea wait for t2 bs chances are they are going to do the same thing with those that they did with BC and tho these things are pwnmobiles you have to get them in range,so if a sniping t2 cyclone is at say 145km you sneak a few stealth bombers in under the guns and do the old scram and slam. This makes Cloaking ships a boat load more useful,the remark of this forcing us to use bigger ships is stupid,it forces you to think outside the box and use your brain as opposed to relying on this forum for set ups, Eve is NOT FOR CASUAL GAMERS or more to the point brainless ones,you want casual gaming go to WoW. Secondly,tracking disruptors on a malediction or stilleto instead of the normal tackling gear would cut any turret t2 bc down to size add on top of that the fact ur in a dinky inty thats fast as heck with a sinfully small sig raidius and those daunting beams,artys and rails just came down with a crippling case of erectile dysfunction. Yes I hate you all, now go away. The best joke ever!!!! [url]http://www.livejournal.com/users/sweet__kitty/40953.html?mode=reply
Sadayiel	Posted - 2005.12.02 10:50:00 - [101] As i pointed before, there is no ultimate ships, and there is ever someway to counter any ship setup. The only ones with major troubles would be pure soloers, but of course a lonely suscessfull pirate is usually smarter enough to survive
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.12.02 11:10:00 - [102] T2 BC will be pwnmobile? Makes me laugh Defence/Offence not far better the HAC but slow like a turtle....pwnmobile? Doubt it. Rather good gang ship and for BS support...but for regular day-to-day pvp? nah -=-
Tozmeister	Posted - 2005.12.02 11:48:00 - [103] Sky Hunter, do you now see your intial post 2 pages back was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction? you've gone from BC's II being the ultimate pwn mobile to seeing ways of beating them. you spent the time training HAC 5?, congratulations. But don't think for 1 second that thats the end of the evolutionary tree for tech 2 ships. Adapt and survive, don't be a sabre-toothed tiger looking at the first flowers pushing up through the snow and thinking it's getting a bit warm. Train BS 5 and starship command 5, get into a good position for the launch of BS II's then sit back and wait for the stream of invective from all the BC II pilots whining they've wasted their time training sqaudron command 5. not trolling, just my 2 pence.
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.12.02 12:03:00 - [104] Edited by: Sky Hunter on 02/12/2005 12:04:50 Good point tho And btw, Spaceship command lvl 5 is HAc requerment...and yet again i dont have HAC lvl 5 yet, but im going there EDIT: Simply when i just saw this topic i pretty much over-rated their stats and didnt took time thinkin about actual combat abilities... -=-
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.12.02 13:30:00 - [105] ôDefence/Offence not far better the HAC but slow like a turtle....pwnmobile? Doubt it. Rather good gang ship and for BS support...but for regular day-to-day pvp? nah ö The defense is way better then a HAC. My theory setup can tank well over 600DPS none stop and I am pretty sure I an make it tank 1000 DPS none stop. 95% of ships if not more will not be able to kill my T2 BC 1v1. Even Battelships will fail to break the tank. HACÆs cannot hit that type of tank and they run out of cap and they for sure dont have the firepower to break a tank like that. If you take a HAC v a T2 BC I only see two outcomes 1v1 with a decent setup. A draw or the HAC loserÆs. Well a 3rd outcome is someone calls freinds in to help. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.12.02 17:15:00 - [106] Edited by: Sky Hunter on 02/12/2005 17:17:02 3rd outcome is no outcome....HAC will enter a fight at his own will while BC can try to chase it and end up either far behind or in trap. T2 BC still wont be as much combat focused as HAC....pvp focused if you want to make it precise. Also, did you also thought about that 40-50% of solo BS have at least one heavy nos? Will then youll be able to run everything indefinatly? Also, dont forget that you still wont be able to engage something like typhoon with autocannon/nos combo or dominix.... EDIT: And i doubt youll do a small gang runs into day-to-day pvp in T2 BC. It simply wont keep up with other ships, causing all gang to slow down and be easy target for camp in the direction of movement. So basicly a BS in the BC hull...gang combat and not deep solo runs..... -=-
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.12.02 17:44:00 - [107] Edited by: Pottsey on 02/12/2005 17:45:13 ôAlso, did you also thought about that 40-50% of solo BS have at least one heavy nos? Will then youll be able to run everything indefinatly?ô I did take that into account and the Nos would have 0 impact and I could run eveything indefinatly. öAlso, dont forget that you still wont be able to engage something like typhoon with autocannon/nos combo or dominix....ö Actually with my setup on a T2 BC you could very easily take on a typhoon with autocannon/nos combo or dominix. Tanking the damage would not be a problem. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.12.02 18:00:00 - [108] Problem wouldnt be the tanking. Typhoon can bring his armor to 7.4k of resist as 80/50/63/67 if i remember correctly +-5%. Now add dual 650 II dmg output with adjustable dmg type and 9 heavy drones with also apporiate dmg type. Dont forget that youll be prolly brought to a full stop being webbed as well. You simply wont keep your cap while being nossed by 4 heavy nos....you wont be able to out-nos even half of it if typhoon pilots activates noses in sequence and not all at once. Basicly youll be looking at -110cap @ 3 sec.(assuming nosses are named) -=-
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.12.02 18:06:00 - [109] ôYou simply wont keep your cap while being nossed by 4 heavy nos....you wont be able to out-nos even half of it if typhoon pilots activates noses in sequence and not all at once. Basicly youll be looking at -110cap @ 3 sec.(assuming nosses are named)ö Nos doesnÆt mean anything to me. Someone can do -110cap @ 3 sec or worse and it wont stop me firing and it wont stop my defence. The only thing it will stop is my gang assist but if its 1v1 thatÆs not on anyway. That and for sure if he has 4 Nos's he will never break my tank. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.12.02 18:35:00 - [110] can i ask for your approx setup and maybe some backup info? Since things you saying are seem to be impossible. You say that your tank isbreable only with 2 uber dmg dealers and full 8 heavy nos ship? sorry but thats just plain wrong. -=-
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.12.02 19:21:00 - [111] Edited by: Pottsey on 02/12/2005 19:24:23 Edited by: Pottsey on 02/12/2005 19:23:10 "Since things you saying are seem to be impossible. You say that your tank isbreable only with 2 uber dmg dealers and full 8 heavy nos ship? sorry but thats just plain wrong." This is my baseline setup. Once I get the ship I will start playing and makeing improvements but this will be my first layout. Before undocking I will try other setups. Ship Vulture with my anti Nos Setup. Midslots 1 Dread Invulnerability Field, 4 large T2 shield extenders. Low slots 5 T1 shield relays. 19,687 shield hitpoints and a 233 second shield recharge. ThatÆs 211 HP regen per second with 0 cap drain and using T1 low slot module. Say your Typhoon is shooting with Carbonized Lead L which I believe is its strongest ammo. So that Thermal and Kinetic damage. My Resistance is 89.4% Thermal and 84.1% Kinetic without gang assist which boosts it another 20%+. So I can tank 1594.2 DPS per second without gang assist. Not made my mind up on the weapon system yet and I am also looking at similar setup for the Gallante ship. Passive shied tanked of course. The Typhoon after the change does what 800 to 900 DPS? As my ships a passive shield tank like all my setups I have almost 0 cap drain. All my cap go towards that 1 Invulnerability Field which hardly drains any cap and if my cap somehow runs out the Invulnerability Field turns into a passive hardener so my resistance is still pretty good. Note: Actually according to the new stacking rules my resistance will be higher then above. But I donÆt know the formula for the new rules so I am using the old rules. So I might be able to make an even stronger tank. Note2: I have a large stock pile of Dread Invulnerability Fields as I have been using them for years and everyone thinks they are useless. I do fit them on all my ships over T2 Invulnerability FieldÆs. If you prefer I can run the math again with T2 fields but that wont be what I am flying. Note3: More often then not you will find me in a gang running gang assist for higher resistance and few if any weapons. I tend to boost gangs and relay on there firepower and my drones. I would have a minimum of 3 high slots used up for gang assist. Unless I was solo hunting then max weapons. But I hunt in groups mostly. Note 4: I might fit 2 fields or 1 field and 1 EM passive hardner. Not sure yet. Also need to try 1 or 2 PDS modules and the rest relays for extra cap regen. I am pretty sure I will need PDS modules for 3 gang assit. But not when solo hunting. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.12.02 19:27:00 - [112] Exactly mate, you wont kill basicly anything bigger then cruiser or BC with this...some ships will easily get out. You cant make your target stay, since you dont have place for webber/disruptor....wich is 2 med slots....more of that almost every HAC got itself an AB or MWD, so he will easily stay out of your range, see your tank, and get out.... All you can do with this setup is acting as bait for a gang or like you said hunt in group.... -=-
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.12.02 19:32:00 - [113] Edited by: Pottsey on 02/12/2005 19:33:06 ôAll you can do with this setup is acting as bait for a gang or like you said hunt in group....ö Well it is a gang based ship so I plan to do all my hunting in groups apart from some solo NPC work which itÆs going be great for. I think I edited my post during your replay as well. Oops I hate doing that. Someone else with a similar setup could always lower the tank down to 1000 DPS and fit a webber and scrambler. ThatÆs still deadly and a strong tank. EDIT: Another version of the tank is to take PDS over relays and fit Cap naturalises.. That drains almost x3 more cap then a Nos ship. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
SengH	Posted - 2005.12.02 19:33:00 - [114] Edited by: SengH on 02/12/2005 19:33:48 Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 02/12/2005 19:27:46 "Since things you saying are seem to be impossible. You say that your tank isbreable only with 2 uber dmg dealers and full 8 heavy nos ship? sorry but thats just plain wrong." This is my baseline setup. Once I get the ship I will start playing and makeing improvements but this will be my first layout. Before undocking I will try other setups. Ship Vulture with my anti Nos Setup. Midslots 1 Dread Invulnerability Field, 4 large T2 shield extenders. Low slots 5 T1 shield relays. 19,687 shield hitpoints and a 233 second shield recharge. ThatÆs 211 HP regen per second with 0 cap drain and using T1 low slot module. Say your Typhoon is shooting with Carbonized Lead L which I believe is its strongest ammo. So that Thermal and Kinetic damage. My Resistance is 89.4% Thermal and 84.1% Kinetic without gang assist which boosts it another 20%+. So I can tank 1594.2 DPS per second without gang assist. Not made my mind up on the weapon system yet and I am also looking at similar setup for the Gallante ship. Passive shied tanked of course. The Typhoon after the change does what 800 to 900 DPS? As my ships a passive shield tank, like all my setups I have almost 0 cap drain. All my cap go towards that 1 Invulnerability Field which hardly drains any cap and if my cap somehow runs out the Invulnerability Field turns into a passive hardener so my resistance is still pretty good. Note: Actually according to the new stacking rules my resistance might be higher then above. But I donÆt know the formula for the new rules so I am using the old rules. Note2: I have a large stock pile of Dread Invulnerability Fields as I have been using them for years and everyone thinks they are useless. I do fit them on all my ships over T2 Invulnerability FieldÆs. If you prefer I can run the math again with T2 fields but that wont be what I am flying. Note3: More often then not you will find me in a gang running gang assist for higher resistance and few if any weapons. I tend to boost gangs and relay on there firepower and my drones. I would have a minimum of 3 high slots used up for gang assist. Unless I was solo hunting then max weapons. But I hunt in groups mostly at the moment. Note 4: I might fit 2 fields or 1 field and 1 EM passive hardner. Not sure yet. Also need to try 1 or 2 PDS modules and the rest relays for extra cap regen. I am pretty sure I will need PDS modules for 3 gang assit. But not when solo hunting. The perfect ratio of PDS to shield relays is not something I can work out without the ship. Carb L is the weakest... EMP/Fusion/Phased plasma is the strongest. Also dont discount the 4 missile slots that can be used for cruises + its massive dronebay which is 2nd biggest for BS after the dominix. Also the phoon isnt a real damage dealer boat. Try T2 800mm tempest for that.
Roxanne	Posted - 2005.12.02 19:39:00 - [115] Edited by: Roxanne on 02/12/2005 19:40:00 Originally by: Pottsey If you take a HAC v a T2 BC I only see two outcomes 1v1 with a decent setup. A draw or the HAC loserÆs. Well a 3rd outcome is someone calls freinds in to help. Your setup cannot even hold the HAC. So assuming that your tank is as uber as you stated, there is only one outcome for the duel and that is a draw, since the HAC can always leave. Considering the cost, I would say that a ship that cannot kill anything is rather moot. Edit: you started the discussion by stating that the t2 BC will be a 1v1 killer and then you proceeded to construct a gang assist t2 BC setup.
Darth Revanant	Posted - 2005.12.02 19:51:00 - [116] Originally by: Roxanne Your setup cannot even hold the HAC. So assuming that your tank is as uber as you stated, there is only one outcome for the duel and that is a draw, since the HAC can always leave. If someone leaves the feild of battle, then they have lost the battle. You don't have to destroy someone to "win". Originally by: Roxanne Considering the cost, I would say that a ship that cannot kill anything is rather moot. Except that it's not designed to kill. Covops can't kill anything either; they're far from moot. _______________
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.12.02 19:52:00 - [117] ôEdit: you started the discussion by stating that the t2 BC will be a 1v1 killer and then you proceeded to construct a gang assist t2 BC setup.ö I started the discussion because Sky Hunter said the BC T2 has not got much better defence tank then a HAC and I wanted to show how it could be a much better tank. In my old post I said there are only two outcomes the BC T2 wins or a draw 1v1. There is no way for the HAC to win without calling in friends. I never said the BC was a killer only that itÆs pretty much unbeatable 1v1. ôYour setup cannot even hold the HAC. So assuming that your tank is as uber as you stated, there is only one outcome for the duel and that is a draw, since the HAC can always leave.ö It would be easy to modify the tank to be able to hold a HAC. I tend to go extreme and use up all my slots for defence. But you donÆt have to. You could drop the defence from being able to tank 1500dps down to being able to tank 1000DPS and free up some slots for EW. ThatÆs not something I would ever do in combat but others could. ôConsidering the cost, I would say that a ship that cannot kill anything is rather moot.ö Not using dread and using T2 the total cost for equipment is 10million give or take 2 million. As for not killing anything its a gang assist ship not made to kill anything. I am not getting a Command ship to kill with. I am getting one to boost my gang mates. If my math is right the Command ship can 20+% boost to all shield resistance 20+% boost to shield boost amount 20+% less capacitor needed for shield boosters 10% shield hitpoint boost 10% armor hitpoint boost 10% speed boost 10% Longer Target range 10% Faster Targeting Those 20% gets a lot higher if we get mind link. I might not kill much but giving all those bonusÆs to everyone in the gang is not a moot ship. Due to the way NPCÆs and players act towards gang assist ships I plan to make a very strong tank and not weaken it by fitting EW. ThatÆs the gangs job. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Roxanne	Posted - 2005.12.02 19:55:00 - [118] Originally by: Darth Revanant Originally by: Roxanne Your setup cannot even hold the HAC. So assuming that your tank is as uber as you stated, there is only one outcome for the duel and that is a draw, since the HAC can always leave. If someone leaves the feild of battle, then they have lost the battle. You don't have to destroy someone to "win". I suggest you read up on the start of the discussion between Sky Hunter and Pottsey. It was all about 1v1. And setting up ships that are all but unkillable in 1v1 is not that difficult, setting them up to actually kill is something different. Making your opponents run away might be your goal, I would rather destroy an opponent's ship when I have the opportunity. I do not consider the t2 BCs as moot, far from it actually. But they are gang orientated.
Roxanne	Posted - 2005.12.02 20:00:00 - [119] Not going to quote everything. How much DPS will your setup do? As far as I can tell you have used up almost all lows and mids for tanking. What kind of weapons will fit? And the ship will cost a bit, with almost no insurance return. While the cost of your setup is interesting, it bears no point on the massive isk loss that losing one t2 BC will cause. And I am not saying that they are bad. Just that they are wasted on solo pvp.
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.12.02 20:11:00 - [120] Edited by: Pottsey on 02/12/2005 20:10:55 ôHow much DPS will your setup do? As far as I can tell you have used up almost all lows and mids for tanking. What kind of weapons will fit?ö Not got a clue. I have short listed my self down to two ships but until I choose between the Gallante and Caldari Logistical class BCÆs I donÆt know my DPS. What ever my DPS is though it will be low. All my combat skill points are in drones and I use T2 drones. I only have 500k skillpoints in missiles and 750k in Hybrid turrets and no plans to train more. The Gallente ship has a done bonus and the Caldari one has a Hybrid bonusÆs so some sort of combination of the two. Perhaps missiles. I was even thinking about going extreme and using 6 gang assist modules and no weapons. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
SengH	Posted - 2005.12.02 20:47:00 - [121] tbh i'd trade the HAC resistances for the ability to use a covt ops cloak on the T2 Fleet BC. Having a visual on the battlefield really aids gang mod micromanagement, however in big fleet battles these ships will most likely be sitting at safes aligned and doing their thing.
Darth Revanant	Posted - 2005.12.02 21:13:00 - [122] Originally by: Roxanne And I am not saying that they are bad. Just that they are wasted on solo pvp. The fleet command ships, yes. But I bet the absolution will give any HAC a very bad day. _______________
Darth Revanant	Posted - 2005.12.02 21:15:00 - [123] Originally by: SengH however in big fleet battles these ships will most likely be sitting at safes aligned and doing their thing. I thought the gang assist mods only worked in the same grid. I'm pretty sure that's the way they are. If not, they should be. _______________
Antiope	Posted - 2005.12.02 21:18:00 - [124] Originally by: Darth Revanant Originally by: SengH however in big fleet battles these ships will most likely be sitting at safes aligned and doing their thing. I thought the gang assist mods only worked in the same grid. I'm pretty sure that's the way they are. If not, they should be. systemwide
Parallax Error	Posted - 2005.12.02 21:24:00 - [125] They work system wide, god forbid we have a reason to spread battles out over systems rather than group up into one big blob
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.12.02 23:46:00 - [126] Remember that simple web+scrambler combo is not always enough to hold down an expirienced pilot. First he simply wont get into 10km range withoutchecking your setup. Ah and btw, if someone warps in fight it doesnt considered a loss. Same as an af can warp out from a tanked mining apoc when unable to break its tank. So people saying 'he warped i beat him' are making awfully wrong statements. -=-
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.12.02 23:47:00 - [127] If someone has to warp or die, I would call that a victory. Warping because you are bored of the fight is what we call a stalemate. ~Captain Cutie, ISC Event Horizon Biomass fears me. Sovereignty 2.0
Nyxus	Posted - 2005.12.03 00:25:00 - [128] Edited by: Nyxus on 03/12/2005 00:26:02 Fighting Pottsey is simple. You know it's gonna be a HUGE passive tank You know it's gonna be omfg 85% resists You know that cap is not a factor Solution: Call Pottsey primary. If the ship doesn't immediately fall into armor you just jamzor and move on to secondary target. Problem solved. Either Pottsey will die immediately, or will be indestructable. No in between. Nyxus Plasmatique> "Cry 'Cartiff' and let slip the dogs of war!"
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.12.03 00:40:00 - [129] Originally by: Nyxus Edited by: Nyxus on 03/12/2005 00:26:02 Fighting Pottsey is simple. You know it's gonna be a HUGE passive tank You know it's gonna be omfg 85% resists You know that cap is not a factor Solution: Call Pottsey primary. If the ship doesn't immediately fall into armor you just jamzor and move on to secondary target. Problem solved. Either Pottsey will die immediately, or will be indestructable. No in between. Nyxus Just have all the jammers fit an extra gallente racial and jam Pottsey. Then again, ISS aren't exactly known for their large fleet battles.
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.12.03 01:12:00 - [130] Well, theres always first time Most of ISS pilots are nice however.....sorry for off-topic -=-
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.12.03 08:24:00 - [131] ôSolution: Call Pottsey primary. If the ship doesn't immediately fall into armor you just jamzor and move on to secondary target.ö ThatÆs the best solution as long as you donÆt take to many ships. If a large fleet show up I head to a safe spot and start boosting all the friendly ships. As I always get called primary partly due to my name and partly due to what my ship does. The only battles I hang around are small battles. ôJust have all the jammers fit an extra gallente racial and jam Pottsey.ö I wouldnÆt recommend that as the main modules on my ship work without target locks so your wasteing your jammers. Gang assist modules boost the gang with no target locks. In fact you donÆt even have to be in the combat area. ôMost of ISS pilots are nice however.....sorry for off-topic ö Thanks and thatÆs true. I am happy to give gang assist boosts to any corps who are friendly towards ISS and hunting NPCÆs in the same are of space as me. I never go out looking for trouble being mostly a PvE pilot. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Embattle	Posted - 2005.12.03 12:57:00 - [132] Originally by: Crellion Big LOL @ CCP for making what looks to be potentially the best combat ships available to "charismatic" characters. I consider this ridiculous. Boo to you mighty Devs. [If you considerdroping gang assist modules and leadership requirements on the "HAC" versions and give them as good or better tamking as logistics version and give combat bonuses only to HAC versions THEN I might consider being your friend again. Until then you are the suxzors ] WoW so my 24 points in Charisma will finally help me ----------- I would have a sig but it might break a arm, leg or even worse a rule.
keepiru	Posted - 2005.12.03 13:21:00 - [133] Meh. If i were you id withold judgement until they change CC's cap from the standard T1 figures. When they have final cap figures, then we shall see what you can actually run on these things. ------------- Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
MrCjEvans	Posted - 2005.12.03 13:25:00 - [134] how will they compare to HACS?
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.12.03 13:49:00 - [135] ôhow will they compare to HACS?ö ItÆs hard to say. I think the Fleet command have far better defence but a lot less firepower and better gang support. The other one has more firepower and less or the same defence. Its hard to judge. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.12.03 14:44:00 - [136] HACs wont get compared to T2 BCs....different roles for different pilots. All i can say that with armor/shield resistances skills(+5% per level) and overall +25% hp to all ships within patch....HACs will get some nice abilities as well Imagine what % of explosive resistance will Zealot have on armor with 80% base + explosive armor skill to lvl 4 -=-
Moss Rose	Posted - 2005.12.03 17:14:00 - [137] uhm hum ... Thx for the agrueing ... I though I got the picture here : It's gonna be another ballance ships for sure
Liet Traep	Posted - 2005.12.05 07:59:00 - [138] The combat versions of the command ships whill have only slightly worse resists than hacs with more shield and armor hit points and an extra daamage bonus. So the Brutix version will have 2 damage bonuses on it's turrets. Looks to me like they'll be plenty effective in combat.

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