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ric0
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Posted - 2005.11.29 21:30:00 -
[91]
finaly a reason to train up the charisma/leadership skills
:)
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.11.29 21:41:00 -
[92]
Still not worth it for some of those who didnt trained charisma or didnt payed attention to it....will loose more time while can use same time alot more effectively to train BS lvl 5 for example.
-=-
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.11.30 17:22:00 -
[93]
 Originally by: Sky Hunter
Still not worth it for some of those who didnt trained charisma or didnt payed attention to it....will loose more time while can use same time alot more effectively to train BS lvl 5 for example.
It's unfair that all gunnery stuff has perception as primary, cause I'm intaki and started the game with only 3..... Just have to suck it up, but I'm sure as hell glad I didn't ignore any of my attributes, and can be in such a nice shippy by the time they're available..
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Sadayiel
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Posted - 2005.11.30 19:07:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Sadayiel on 30/11/2005 19:10:01
From my point of view, new Bc aren't as bad as much of the HAC's pilot whine.
The Bc tech II are lot expensive than just HAC's so get for sure they are not going to face them lot of times, also if you see one, the movility and response gives you the advantage to avoid it ( as sure you will do with a well fitted close range blasterthron right?)
they just balance the HAc's use so you will keep in mind some warp stabs and not just weapon mods to increase dmg i think Bc may change before get in Tranquility lowering their dmg abilitys but keeping the tank ones (they are there to survive and lead others not to ripe any ship they face)
The skills needed are a pain and it seems a real major specialization, so not all ppl will go behind those, and i still believe 3 or 4 HAC gang together is cheaper to build and can ripe those Bc without much trouble.
P.S. you can keep fliying Hac by 1vs 1 just keep care of any tech 2 BC also any guy single fliying those things is just wasting lot of cash and skills in a ship made for Group that prolly can be kicked by a decent pvp BS fitted.
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Rafein
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Posted - 2005.11.30 19:37:00 -
[95]
I remembe seeing the bonus to the Vulture? The gun based Caldari BC. had the Ferox bonuses for BC. And 10% optimal range and 5% RoF for mediums for the other set of bonuses.
so fully trained, +100% optimal range
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.11.30 19:42:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Sky Hunter
Still not worth it for some of those who didnt trained charisma or didnt payed attention to it....will loose more time while can use same time alot more effectively to train BS lvl 5 for example.
It's unfair that all gunnery stuff has perception as primary, cause I'm intaki and started the game with only 3..... Just have to suck it up, but I'm sure as hell glad I didn't ignore any of my attributes, and can be in such a nice shippy by the time they're available..
Notice that im also Intaki and Gallente, but i just setted my attributes right, gladly i was starting a game under advices from more expirienced friend 
-=-
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Sadayiel
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Posted - 2005.11.30 20:19:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Gariuys
It's unfair that all gunnery stuff has perception as primary, cause I'm intaki and started the game with only 3..... Just have to suck it up, but I'm sure as hell glad I didn't ignore any of my attributes, and can be in such a nice shippy by the time they're available..
why it's unfair, the skills are there and you only need a couple of days to learn how the attributes work (not a great loss of time)
Also Gallentes are not supposed to be the best fighters (prolly they avoided wide battles until the caldari/gallente war) each race have their good and bad points, the only difference counts in the time to learn, also perception as primary is common sense if you can't see your enemy or spot the weak points then is useless fire to your enemy right?
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.11.30 21:16:00 -
[98]
Well...any race and bloodline can be good combat character...all depends on creation path really...
-=-
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velocoraptor
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Posted - 2005.12.02 04:03:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Pottsey
“whats skills are required for there ships?”
A number of level 5 leadership skills which need Charisma. Tough luck on all those with Charisma in the single digits.
Hey, could I dare to assume that I was right to insist on getting my charisma to 18 (scot lvl 4)!!!??
Eeeeer, what? No? Still a mistake to loose all that time?
Baaah, whatever
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Lucian Alucard
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Posted - 2005.12.02 10:17:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Lucian Alucard on 02/12/2005 10:23:55
heres an idea wait for t2 bs chances are they are going to do the same thing with those that they did with BC and tho these things are pwnmobiles you have to get them in range,so if a sniping t2 cyclone is at say 145km you sneak a few stealth bombers in under the guns and do the old scram and slam. This makes Cloaking ships a boat load more useful,the remark of this forcing us to use bigger ships is stupid,it forces you to think outside the box and use your brain as opposed to relying on this forum for set ups, Eve is NOT FOR CASUAL GAMERS or more to the point brainless ones,you want casual gaming go to WoW.
Secondly,tracking disruptors on a malediction or stilleto instead of the normal tackling gear would cut any turret t2 bc down to size add on top of that the fact ur in a dinky inty thats fast as heck with a sinfully small sig raidius and those daunting beams,artys and rails just came down with a crippling case of erectile dysfunction.
Yes I hate you all, now go away.
The best joke ever!!!!
[url]http://www.livejournal.com/users/sweet__kitty/40953.html?mode=reply |
Sadayiel
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Posted - 2005.12.02 10:50:00 -
[101]
As i pointed before, there is no ultimate ships, and there is ever someway to counter any ship setup.
The only ones with major troubles would be pure soloers, but of course a lonely suscessfull pirate is usually smarter enough to survive 
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.02 11:10:00 -
[102]
T2 BC will be pwnmobile? Makes me laugh
Defence/Offence not far better the HAC but slow like a turtle....pwnmobile? Doubt it. Rather good gang ship and for BS support...but for regular day-to-day pvp? nah
-=-
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Tozmeister
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Posted - 2005.12.02 11:48:00 -
[103]
Sky Hunter, do you now see your intial post 2 pages back was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction? you've gone from BC's II being the ultimate pwn mobile to seeing ways of beating them.
you spent the time training HAC 5?, congratulations. But don't think for 1 second that thats the end of the evolutionary tree for tech 2 ships. Adapt and survive, don't be a sabre-toothed tiger looking at the first flowers pushing up through the snow and thinking it's getting a bit warm.
Train BS 5 and starship command 5, get into a good position for the launch of BS II's then sit back and wait for the stream of invective from all the BC II pilots whining they've wasted their time training sqaudron command 5.
not trolling, just my 2 pence.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.02 12:03:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Sky Hunter on 02/12/2005 12:04:50
Good point tho
And btw, Spaceship command lvl 5 is HAc requerment...and yet again i dont have HAC lvl 5 yet, but im going there
EDIT: Simply when i just saw this topic i pretty much over-rated their stats and didnt took time thinkin about actual combat abilities...
-=-
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.12.02 13:30:00 -
[105]
ôDefence/Offence not far better the HAC but slow like a turtle....pwnmobile? Doubt it. Rather good gang ship and for BS support...but for regular day-to-day pvp? nah ö
The defense is way better then a HAC. My theory setup can tank well over 600DPS none stop and I am pretty sure I an make it tank 1000 DPS none stop.
95% of ships if not more will not be able to kill my T2 BC 1v1. Even Battelships will fail to break the tank.
HACÆs cannot hit that type of tank and they run out of cap and they for sure dont have the firepower to break a tank like that.
If you take a HAC v a T2 BC I only see two outcomes 1v1 with a decent setup. A draw or the HAC loserÆs. Well a 3rd outcome is someone calls freinds in to help.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.02 17:15:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Sky Hunter on 02/12/2005 17:17:02
3rd outcome is no outcome....HAC will enter a fight at his own will while BC can try to chase it and end up either far behind or in trap.
T2 BC still wont be as much combat focused as HAC....pvp focused if you want to make it precise.
Also, did you also thought about that 40-50% of solo BS have at least one heavy nos? Will then youll be able to run everything indefinatly?
Also, dont forget that you still wont be able to engage something like typhoon with autocannon/nos combo or dominix....
EDIT: And i doubt youll do a small gang runs into day-to-day pvp in T2 BC. It simply wont keep up with other ships, causing all gang to slow down and be easy target for camp in the direction of movement. So basicly a BS in the BC hull...gang combat and not deep solo runs.....
-=-
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.12.02 17:44:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Pottsey on 02/12/2005 17:45:13
ôAlso, did you also thought about that 40-50% of solo BS have at least one heavy nos? Will then youll be able to run everything indefinatly?ô
I did take that into account and the Nos would have 0 impact and I could run eveything indefinatly.
öAlso, dont forget that you still wont be able to engage something like typhoon with autocannon/nos combo or dominix....ö
Actually with my setup on a T2 BC you could very easily take on a typhoon with autocannon/nos combo or dominix. Tanking the damage would not be a problem.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.02 18:00:00 -
[108]
Problem wouldnt be the tanking.
Typhoon can bring his armor to 7.4k of resist as 80/50/63/67 if i remember correctly +-5%.
Now add dual 650 II dmg output with adjustable dmg type and 9 heavy drones with also apporiate dmg type.
Dont forget that youll be prolly brought to a full stop being webbed as well.
You simply wont keep your cap while being nossed by 4 heavy nos....you wont be able to out-nos even half of it if typhoon pilots activates noses in sequence and not all at once. Basicly youll be looking at -110cap @ 3 sec.(assuming nosses are named)
-=-
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.12.02 18:06:00 -
[109]
ôYou simply wont keep your cap while being nossed by 4 heavy nos....you wont be able to out-nos even half of it if typhoon pilots activates noses in sequence and not all at once. Basicly youll be looking at -110cap @ 3 sec.(assuming nosses are named)ö
Nos doesnÆt mean anything to me. Someone can do -110cap @ 3 sec or worse and it wont stop me firing and it wont stop my defence. The only thing it will stop is my gang assist but if its 1v1 thatÆs not on anyway. That and for sure if he has 4 Nos's he will never break my tank.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.02 18:35:00 -
[110]
can i ask for your approx setup and maybe some backup info?
Since things you saying are seem to be impossible. You say that your tank isbreable only with 2 uber dmg dealers and full 8 heavy nos ship? sorry but thats just plain wrong.
-=-
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.12.02 19:21:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Pottsey on 02/12/2005 19:24:23
Edited by: Pottsey on 02/12/2005 19:23:10
"Since things you saying are seem to be impossible. You say that your tank isbreable only with 2 uber dmg dealers and full 8 heavy nos ship? sorry but thats just plain wrong."
This is my baseline setup. Once I get the ship I will start playing and makeing improvements but this will be my first layout. Before undocking I will try other setups.
Ship Vulture with my anti Nos Setup.
Midslots 1 Dread Invulnerability Field, 4 large T2 shield extenders. Low slots 5 T1 shield relays.
19,687 shield hitpoints and a 233 second shield recharge. ThatÆs 211 HP regen per second with 0 cap drain and using T1 low slot module.
Say your Typhoon is shooting with Carbonized Lead L which I believe is its strongest ammo. So that Thermal and Kinetic damage.
My Resistance is 89.4% Thermal and 84.1% Kinetic without gang assist which boosts it another 20%+. So I can tank 1594.2 DPS per second without gang assist. Not made my mind up on the weapon system yet and I am also looking at similar setup for the Gallante ship. Passive shied tanked of course.
The Typhoon after the change does what 800 to 900 DPS? As my ships a passive shield tank like all my setups I have almost 0 cap drain. All my cap go towards that 1 Invulnerability Field which hardly drains any cap and if my cap somehow runs out the Invulnerability Field turns into a passive hardener so my resistance is still pretty good.
Note: Actually according to the new stacking rules my resistance will be higher then above. But I donÆt know the formula for the new rules so I am using the old rules. So I might be able to make an even stronger tank.
Note2: I have a large stock pile of Dread Invulnerability Fields as I have been using them for years and everyone thinks they are useless. I do fit them on all my ships over T2 Invulnerability FieldÆs. If you prefer I can run the math again with T2 fields but that wont be what I am flying.
Note3: More often then not you will find me in a gang running gang assist for higher resistance and few if any weapons. I tend to boost gangs and relay on there firepower and my drones. I would have a minimum of 3 high slots used up for gang assist. Unless I was solo hunting then max weapons. But I hunt in groups mostly.
Note 4: I might fit 2 fields or 1 field and 1 EM passive hardner. Not sure yet. Also need to try 1 or 2 PDS modules and the rest relays for extra cap regen. I am pretty sure I will need PDS modules for 3 gang assit. But not when solo hunting.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.02 19:27:00 -
[112]
Exactly mate, you wont kill basicly anything bigger then cruiser or BC with this...some ships will easily get out.
You cant make your target stay, since you dont have place for webber/disruptor....wich is 2 med slots....more of that almost every HAC got itself an AB or MWD, so he will easily stay out of your range, see your tank, and get out....
All you can do with this setup is acting as bait for a gang or like you said hunt in group....
-=-
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.12.02 19:32:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Pottsey on 02/12/2005 19:33:06
ôAll you can do with this setup is acting as bait for a gang or like you said hunt in group....ö
Well it is a gang based ship so I plan to do all my hunting in groups apart from some solo NPC work which itÆs going be great for.
I think I edited my post during your replay as well. Oops I hate doing that.
Someone else with a similar setup could always lower the tank down to 1000 DPS and fit a webber and scrambler. ThatÆs still deadly and a strong tank.
EDIT: Another version of the tank is to take PDS over relays and fit Cap naturalises.. That drains almost x3 more cap then a Nos ship.
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.12.02 19:33:00 -
[114]
Edited by: SengH on 02/12/2005 19:33:48
Originally by: Pottsey
Edited by: Pottsey on 02/12/2005 19:27:46
"Since things you saying are seem to be impossible. You say that your tank isbreable only with 2 uber dmg dealers and full 8 heavy nos ship? sorry but thats just plain wrong."
This is my baseline setup. Once I get the ship I will start playing and makeing improvements but this will be my first layout. Before undocking I will try other setups.
Ship Vulture with my anti Nos Setup.
Midslots 1 Dread Invulnerability Field, 4 large T2 shield extenders. Low slots 5 T1 shield relays.
19,687 shield hitpoints and a 233 second shield recharge. ThatÆs 211 HP regen per second with 0 cap drain and using T1 low slot module.
Say your Typhoon is shooting with Carbonized Lead L which I believe is its strongest ammo. So that Thermal and Kinetic damage.
My Resistance is 89.4% Thermal and 84.1% Kinetic without gang assist which boosts it another 20%+. So I can tank 1594.2 DPS per second without gang assist. Not made my mind up on the weapon system yet and I am also looking at similar setup for the Gallante ship. Passive shied tanked of course.
The Typhoon after the change does what 800 to 900 DPS? As my ships a passive shield tank, like all my setups I have almost 0 cap drain. All my cap go towards that 1 Invulnerability Field which hardly drains any cap and if my cap somehow runs out the Invulnerability Field turns into a passive hardener so my resistance is still pretty good.
Note: Actually according to the new stacking rules my resistance might be higher then above. But I donÆt know the formula for the new rules so I am using the old rules.
Note2: I have a large stock pile of Dread Invulnerability Fields as I have been using them for years and everyone thinks they are useless. I do fit them on all my ships over T2 Invulnerability FieldÆs. If you prefer I can run the math again with T2 fields but that wont be what I am flying.
Note3: More often then not you will find me in a gang running gang assist for higher resistance and few if any weapons. I tend to boost gangs and relay on there firepower and my drones. I would have a minimum of 3 high slots used up for gang assist. Unless I was solo hunting then max weapons. But I hunt in groups mostly at the moment.
Note 4: I might fit 2 fields or 1 field and 1 EM passive hardner. Not sure yet. Also need to try 1 or 2 PDS modules and the rest relays for extra cap regen. I am pretty sure I will need PDS modules for 3 gang assit. But not when solo hunting. The perfect ratio of PDS to shield relays is not something I can work out without the ship.
Carb L is the weakest... EMP/Fusion/Phased plasma is the strongest. Also dont discount the 4 missile slots that can be used for cruises + its massive dronebay which is 2nd biggest for BS after the dominix. Also the phoon isnt a real damage dealer boat. Try T2 800mm tempest for that.
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Roxanne
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Posted - 2005.12.02 19:39:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Roxanne on 02/12/2005 19:40:00
Originally by: Pottsey
If you take a HAC v a T2 BC I only see two outcomes 1v1 with a decent setup. A draw or the HAC loserÆs. Well a 3rd outcome is someone calls freinds in to help.
Your setup cannot even hold the HAC. So assuming that your tank is as uber as you stated, there is only one outcome for the duel and that is a draw, since the HAC can always leave. Considering the cost, I would say that a ship that cannot kill anything is rather moot.
Edit: you started the discussion by stating that the t2 BC will be a 1v1 killer and then you proceeded to construct a gang assist t2 BC setup.
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Darth Revanant
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Posted - 2005.12.02 19:51:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Roxanne
Your setup cannot even hold the HAC. So assuming that your tank is as uber as you stated, there is only one outcome for the duel and that is a draw, since the HAC can always leave.
If someone leaves the feild of battle, then they have lost the battle. You don't have to destroy someone to "win".
Originally by: Roxanne
Considering the cost, I would say that a ship that cannot kill anything is rather moot.
Except that it's not designed to kill. Covops can't kill anything either; they're far from moot.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.12.02 19:52:00 -
[117]
ôEdit: you started the discussion by stating that the t2 BC will be a 1v1 killer and then you proceeded to construct a gang assist t2 BC setup.ö
I started the discussion because Sky Hunter said the BC T2 has not got much better defence tank then a HAC and I wanted to show how it could be a much better tank. In my old post I said there are only two outcomes the BC T2 wins or a draw 1v1. There is no way for the HAC to win without calling in friends. I never said the BC was a killer only that itÆs pretty much unbeatable 1v1.
ôYour setup cannot even hold the HAC. So assuming that your tank is as uber as you stated, there is only one outcome for the duel and that is a draw, since the HAC can always leave.ö
It would be easy to modify the tank to be able to hold a HAC. I tend to go extreme and use up all my slots for defence. But you donÆt have to. You could drop the defence from being able to tank 1500dps down to being able to tank 1000DPS and free up some slots for EW. ThatÆs not something I would ever do in combat but others could.
ôConsidering the cost, I would say that a ship that cannot kill anything is rather moot.ö
Not using dread and using T2 the total cost for equipment is 10million give or take 2 million. As for not killing anything its a gang assist ship not made to kill anything. I am not getting a Command ship to kill with. I am getting one to boost my gang mates. If my math is right the Command ship can
20+% boost to all shield resistance
20+% boost to shield boost amount
20+% less capacitor needed for shield boosters
10% shield hitpoint boost
10% armor hitpoint boost
10% speed boost
10% Longer Target range
10% Faster Targeting
Those 20% gets a lot higher if we get mind link. I might not kill much but giving all those bonusÆs to everyone in the gang is not a moot ship.
Due to the way NPCÆs and players act towards gang assist ships I plan to make a very strong tank and not weaken it by fitting EW. ThatÆs the gangs job.
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Roxanne
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Posted - 2005.12.02 19:55:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Darth Revanant
Originally by: Roxanne
Your setup cannot even hold the HAC. So assuming that your tank is as uber as you stated, there is only one outcome for the duel and that is a draw, since the HAC can always leave.
If someone leaves the feild of battle, then they have lost the battle. You don't have to destroy someone to "win".
I suggest you read up on the start of the discussion between Sky Hunter and Pottsey. It was all about 1v1.
And setting up ships that are all but unkillable in 1v1 is not that difficult, setting them up to actually kill is something different. Making your opponents run away might be your goal, I would rather destroy an opponent's ship when I have the opportunity.
I do not consider the t2 BCs as moot, far from it actually. But they are gang orientated.
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Roxanne
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Posted - 2005.12.02 20:00:00 -
[119]
Not going to quote everything. How much DPS will your setup do? As far as I can tell you have used up almost all lows and mids for tanking. What kind of weapons will fit?
And the ship will cost a bit, with almost no insurance return. While the cost of your setup is interesting, it bears no point on the massive isk loss that losing one t2 BC will cause.
And I am not saying that they are bad. Just that they are wasted on solo pvp.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.12.02 20:11:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Pottsey on 02/12/2005 20:10:55
ôHow much DPS will your setup do? As far as I can tell you have used up almost all lows and mids for tanking. What kind of weapons will fit?ö
Not got a clue. I have short listed my self down to two ships but until I choose between the Gallante and Caldari Logistical class BCÆs I donÆt know my DPS. What ever my DPS is though it will be low.
All my combat skill points are in drones and I use T2 drones. I only have 500k skillpoints in missiles and 750k in Hybrid turrets and no plans to train more.
The Gallente ship has a done bonus and the Caldari one has a Hybrid bonusÆs so some sort of combination of the two. Perhaps missiles. I was even thinking about going extreme and using 6 gang assist modules and no weapons.
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