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neur0n
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Posted - 2005.12.03 04:42:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Tribunal
Originally by: neur0n
Originally by: Tribunal
In short, you want WCS to be harder on the user but scramblers to stay as they are, when in reality the scrambler has the advantage because there is a 2 strength version.
People usually use more than 1 stab so the +2 scrambler does as much as a +1 scrambler. What's the point on fighting a bunch of ships with 4+ stabs on lows?
Use 3 +2 scramblers then? So that ONE player has used 4 low slots, but can be held in place by 3 people all using one medium slot. Even if we are talking 1 on 1 you will still have to use medium slots to hold him in place then he has to use to warp out.
How is this not balanced? The player with the WCS has given up 4 lot of slots to use 4 WCS, and you only have to give up 3 slots to hold him in place or bring two other friends so everyone has to use one slot.
And be under 7.5km range. the time a BS took to approach another battleship he would have ran anyways
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Syreen
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Posted - 2005.12.03 04:42:00 -
[32]
Originally by: neur0n
Originally by: Angus Therm0pyle yes some sort of penlty shoudl be put in place so I woudl stop using them like warp drive operation lv5 training and like removed 1 missile and turrent hardpoint for each stab and you shoudl be unable to fit smartbombs and nos
That's an idea.
Yes, the same one on the last page. "(effectively) remove them from PvP"
<Insert Random Witty Signature Here> |
Sun Ra
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Posted - 2005.12.03 04:53:00 -
[33]
Originally by: neur0n CCP should do something about warp core stabs as they are ruining perfectly good fights.
I suggest adding a penalty of -50% rof or turret damage to them in order to make them a only useful for moving ships and not for combat. What's the point of fighting someone when they are stabbed up? they wont die unless you have a ton of tacklers with you, so small fights become kind of pointless as you dont have enough strenght to hold your opponents.
BESTEST IDEA EVER!1111
We're coming for you |
Tribunal
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Posted - 2005.12.03 04:54:00 -
[34]
Originally by: neur0n
Originally by: Tribunal
Originally by: neur0n
Originally by: Tribunal
In short, you want WCS to be harder on the user but scramblers to stay as they are, when in reality the scrambler has the advantage because there is a 2 strength version.
People usually use more than 1 stab so the +2 scrambler does as much as a +1 scrambler. What's the point on fighting a bunch of ships with 4+ stabs on lows?
Use 3 +2 scramblers then? So that ONE player has used 4 low slots, but can be held in place by 3 people all using one medium slot. Even if we are talking 1 on 1 you will still have to use medium slots to hold him in place then he has to use to warp out.
How is this not balanced? The player with the WCS has given up 4 lot of slots to use 4 WCS, and you only have to give up 3 slots to hold him in place or bring two other friends so everyone has to use one slot.
And be under 7.5km range. the time a BS took to approach another battleship he would have ran anyways
I have been around a very long time, and in my experience people do not use BSs to tackle. The +1 warp scrambler is 20km which is still an extremely close range for a starting engagement for a battleship. Most battleships (that you do not get lucky and warp on top of or warp to another in your gang) will easyly be able to warp out even at the 20km mark if you are trying to tackle it with another BS.
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s1m0ne
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Posted - 2005.12.03 04:56:00 -
[35]
The point is not about people npcing or something I dont give a crap about ganks like that what sux is when people actually engages you in combat loaded with stabs so they can save their ships if something bad was to happen .
Some kind of penalty should be added like stabs using caps and needs activation . A disrupter uses caps and uses a slot on your ship so a stab should too .
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neur0n
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Posted - 2005.12.03 04:57:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Tribunal
I have been around a very long time, and in my experience people do not use BSs to tackle. The +1 warp scrambler is 20km which is still an extremely close range for a starting engagement for a battleship. Most battleships (that you do not get lucky and warp on top of or warp to another in your gang) will easyly be able to warp out even at the 20km mark if you are trying to tackle it with another BS.
It also applies to interceptors and cruisers, 1 interceptor alone, except a stiletto with 3 +2 scramblers (which imo is retarded), wouldnt do the job.
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Tribunal
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Posted - 2005.12.03 05:10:00 -
[37]
Originally by: s1m0ne The point is not about people npcing or something I dont give a crap about ganks like that what sux is when people actually engages you in combat loaded with stabs so they can save their ships if something bad was to happen .
Some kind of penalty should be added like stabs using caps and needs activation . A disrupter uses caps and uses a slot on your ship so a stab should too .
Um, well guess what? A change to WCS would effect me and what I enjoy doing (PvE), so this very much does concern my point.
You want WCS to use cap? Perfect, they can use 25 energy each, which is the exact same used by a warp disruptor I.
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Powder
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Posted - 2005.12.03 05:13:00 -
[38]
word
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.12.03 05:14:00 -
[39]
How about a penalty to capacitor, like 15% per warpcore, cause it has to redirect capacitor energy to strengthen your warp field or some technobabble like that. ------ Campaign to remove shield hardener effects, they suck!! |
Tribunal
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Posted - 2005.12.03 05:15:00 -
[40]
Originally by: neur0n
Originally by: Tribunal
I have been around a very long time, and in my experience people do not use BSs to tackle. The +1 warp scrambler is 20km which is still an extremely close range for a starting engagement for a battleship. Most battleships (that you do not get lucky and warp on top of or warp to another in your gang) will easyly be able to warp out even at the 20km mark if you are trying to tackle it with another BS.
It also applies to interceptors and cruisers, 1 interceptor alone, except a stiletto with 3 +2 scramblers (which imo is retarded), wouldnt do the job.
Well, this is the problem that many have been complaining about with interceptors for a long time. They are too focused on damaged and not focused enough on tackling. Of course there are quite a few people who are very happy with them as they are.
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Emperor Coth
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Posted - 2005.12.03 05:17:00 -
[41]
Would such a change make piracy easier or more difficcult?
Answer that and you will come to realize ccp has pandered to lazy pirates for far too long
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.12.03 05:18:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Emperor Coth Would such a change make piracy easier or more difficcult?
Answer that and you will come to realize ccp has pandered to lazy pirates for far too long
how do you figure? instas alone make piracy pretty much crap. ------ Campaign to remove shield hardener effects, they suck!! |
Dryxonedes Sae
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Posted - 2005.12.03 05:28:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Dryxonedes Sae on 03/12/2005 05:28:34 Maybe a -% to powergrid and/or cpu? i.e. reverse effect of power cores and cpu's. Fitting them would suck a lot of juice from the ship, and require a lot of monitoring. It wouldn't need to be a huge decrease, and it surely would inhibit people fitting a lot of them when they discover fitting weapons and a tank wouldn't be possible with a few wcs fitted. Is it possible to reverse the stacking penalty too? I was thinking that the penalty for fitting just 1 shouldn't be too harsh (if your hunting in a battleship, really you oughtta have a tackler), but the more you fit, the worse the -% gets. this would be because a flat % would have reduced effect as the powergrid/cpu shrinks. Just a spam..
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.12.03 05:32:00 -
[44]
How about 2 types of WCS.
1. Stackable with damage/cap/resistance/shield/armor nerf. Can't just penalize damage or it will be unfair.
2. Strength stack peanalty w/o nerfing. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
mk ultra
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Posted - 2005.12.03 05:39:00 -
[45]
Originally by: s1m0ne The point is not about people npcing or something I dont give a crap about ganks like that what sux is when people actually engages you in combat loaded with stabs so they can save their ships if something bad was to happen .
Some kind of penalty should be added like stabs using caps and needs activation . A disrupter uses caps and uses a slot on your ship so a stab should too .
sry it didnt post with my main that post was from me
------------------------ <Beeth> Girls are like internet domain names, the ones I like are already taken. <honx> well, you can stil get one from a strange country :-P
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Man Upright
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Posted - 2005.12.03 05:46:00 -
[46]
my idea is that warp cores take 25% of the total power of a ships grid.
this means 4 would be max, and you could still fit nano's and od's for travel.
then, people would stop fitting 2, without vastly changing their gank setup to make them weaker (as cores in numbers are, weak)
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neur0n
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Posted - 2005.12.03 05:49:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Man Upright my idea is that warp cores take 25% of the total power of a ships grid.
this means 4 would be max, and you could still fit nano's and od's for travel.
then, people would stop fitting 2, without vastly changing their gank setup to make them weaker (as cores in numbers are, weak)
That's an excellent idea!
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mk ultra
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Posted - 2005.12.03 05:50:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Tribunal
Originally by: s1m0ne The point is not about people npcing or something I dont give a crap about ganks like that what sux is when people actually engages you in combat loaded with stabs so they can save their ships if something bad was to happen .
Some kind of penalty should be added like stabs using caps and needs activation . A disrupter uses caps and uses a slot on your ship so a stab should too .
Um, well guess what? A change to WCS would effect me and what I enjoy doing (PvE), so this very much does concern my point.
You want WCS to use cap? Perfect, they can use 25 energy each, which is the exact same used by a warp disruptor I.
i enjoy pve as well and never fitted a damn stab for that ... whats wrong with keeping an eye on local chat .... maybe i can give you a hint on how to see local chat at all time ... dont stack it with other chat windows .........
and before someone says it YES i did use stabs in the past for pvp and realised it sux i dont anymore .
all were are doing here is duscussing ideas to compensate .
------------------------ <Beeth> Girls are like internet domain names, the ones I like are already taken. <honx> well, you can stil get one from a strange country :-P
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Ante
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Posted - 2005.12.03 05:55:00 -
[49]
A couple ways you could go about it.
My favourite ideas are: - Make WCS active modules that have 30 second activation time, +1 WCS is only added at end of activation time. - Make WCS active modules that penalise -10% cap recharge rate per module.
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Devvon Maelstrom
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Posted - 2005.12.03 05:58:00 -
[50]
I do believe warp core stabs are overpowered to a degree but I feel they also play a big part in the support/battleship tatics during battles. I really don't think they should nerf the combat power of a ship. However, I wouldn't mind seeing a 10% penalty to ship agility per stab. This would allow for more time for support to reach a ship before it warps. It also could be explained in game that the lack of agility is necessary to help stabilize the warp field.
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Jinxi
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Posted - 2005.12.03 06:05:00 -
[51]
Totally agree that WCS need some kind of penalty. It should vastly limit the combat ability of a ship, after all this module was supposed to help you avoid combat completely not run out of a fight.
For ppl saying it would ruin hit and run tactics, I have done many hit and runs succesfully never using a WCS. You have ECM, sensor damps and different ranges u can fight.. one module to rule combat, no strike that one module to ruin all combat; I wish not.
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Apache
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Posted - 2005.12.03 06:07:00 -
[52]
I know there is a lot of whining about WCS and if they are too effective/not effective enough. A lot of the complaints about them being too effective come from pvpers obviously, but not for the reasons most of the non-pvp type think. A great many people fit pvp setups with lots of warp core stabs, and combined with ewar makes them effectively unstoppable unless a gank squad goes after them. This, in my opinion, is hurting the pvp scene at the moment.
As for NPCers, haulers, etc, I don't have a problem with them using stabs, as its part of the fun in trying to catch them, and gives them a chance to get away if they arent rigged for pvp.
Now how do we solve the one problem, without making WCS unusable for people who use them properly? My suggestion is to give WCS a penalty on scan resolution, with a penalty sufficient enough to discourage people from trying to actively engage in pvp with the intent of just running away. With the changes to damage mods etc, I have a feeling we'll see a lot more 3+ wcs ships flying around, making solo pvp pretty much pointless.
Since any decent NPCer can tank the spawn he is fighting indefinitely, it should not effect their game play by taking an extra few seconds to lock something, and for people trying to avoid combat, it should have no effect on them at all. Hopefully it would discourage the ewar/wcs setups that are becoming so common these days, while still allowing legitimate use of them to those who need them.
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Kunming
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Posted - 2005.12.03 06:07:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Kunming on 03/12/2005 06:06:59 That above post is mine (Jinxi). Something wrong with the forums? I see lots of ppl post with their alts even though they havent choosen to do so.. hmm wierd!
Website Killboard |
Sky Net
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Posted - 2005.12.03 06:22:00 -
[54]
Let me understand this if I may, most of the people on this thread are crying about NOT being able to FORCE people to sit in a PVP encounter.... even though you do have the means to do that if you really wanted to.
Your crying about your +2 mods not being able to hold a person giving up 4 low slots for for +1 mods....
You basically dont want the other person having the ability to decide when its time to run and when its time to fight because it makes the game "boring" for you...
and they said pvpers are selfish..... that they want all the enjoyment of killing others and not giving them a chance in hell to get away... Awwwww...
Think you guys are forgetting that even though eve is a VERY pvper style of game there are other aspects to it, but heaven forbid anyone would want to do anything other than pvp... heaven forbid someone would want to PvE in low sec without having to fit 4+ WCS and lose his/her ship to someone set up for Pvping.. Grow the hell up the world of eve doesnt revolve around you.
Its perfectly balanced if someone wants to "gimp" his/her set up with 4 WCS... well then hes "gimped" penalty enough.. If you could kill him fast enough (with webs/jamers/nuets/nos's and the ENDLESS other mods to help you gank) then he could warp away in the first place. oh and... Stop using Bs's to try to scramble people dont think they are meant for that.. do you?
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Megadon
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Posted - 2005.12.03 06:29:00 -
[55]
I think they need to be made so they take up 0-10 CPU and give them each +2 strength so you don't have to worry about gimping your setup so much when you fit them.
It would also be cool if you could somehow use them to disrupt the ship of anyone who agresses you with your warp stabs so they would blow up. Almost like a smart bomb really.
Right now, warp core stabs are very unbalanced. Why can't CCP see this. Give the Warp Stab some stab lovin'.
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Tribunal
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Posted - 2005.12.03 06:29:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Tribunal on 03/12/2005 06:31:25
Originally by: mk ultra
Originally by: Tribunal
Originally by: s1m0ne The point is not about people npcing or something I dont give a crap about ganks like that what sux is when people actually engages you in combat loaded with stabs so they can save their ships if something bad was to happen .
Some kind of penalty should be added like stabs using caps and needs activation . A disrupter uses caps and uses a slot on your ship so a stab should too .
Um, well guess what? A change to WCS would effect me and what I enjoy doing (PvE), so this very much does concern my point.
You want WCS to use cap? Perfect, they can use 25 energy each, which is the exact same used by a warp disruptor I.
i enjoy pve as well and never fitted a damn stab for that ... whats wrong with keeping an eye on local chat .... maybe i can give you a hint on how to see local chat at all time ... dont stack it with other chat windows .........
and before someone says it YES i did use stabs in the past for pvp and realised it sux i dont anymore .
all were are doing here is duscussing ideas to compensate .
I figured out the "watch local" tactic over a year ago. This was a period of time when players could exploit the system and log in but not show on local.
The point is that no one is perfect and it is easy to miss someone entering local when you are in a busy area and doing something that requires attention. WCS are the little extra insurance for me to escape if I screw up. I pay a big price for putting them on my ship, but they have also saved me quite a few times.
Also, not all pirate groups are retarded enough to storm into a area, because they know that everyone will run for the dock. I can not count the number of times a positive sec, non pirate corp player tried to tackle me so his pirate buds could warp into the area and help finish me off. Some people use their brains, so I prepare for those people and dodge the retards with local.
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Sky Net
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Posted - 2005.12.03 06:32:00 -
[57]
by the way Reikoku I think yours is the FIRST suggestion I have heard made any sense on this issue, that's a good idea.
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neur0n
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Posted - 2005.12.03 06:50:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Sky Net by the way Reikoku I think yours is the FIRST suggestion I have heard made any sense on this issue, that's a good idea.
huh? this was my opinion not rkk's opinion. Either way your previous post is pointless to this discussion as it doesnt present any valid argument to the problem being discussed here.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.12.03 06:59:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Man Upright my idea is that warp cores take 25% of the total power of a ships grid.
this means 4 would be max, and you could still fit nano's and od's for travel.
then, people would stop fitting 2, without vastly changing their gank setup to make them weaker (as cores in numbers are, weak)
Yep, that would work quite well and something really needs to be done before rmr hits. ________________________________________________________
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Skzcaptain
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Posted - 2005.12.03 07:15:00 -
[60]
Maybe if you didn't go around rtrying to gank tiny ships you wouldn't have a problem. I suppose a frig is supposed to sit around and duke it out just waiting to be blown up? Train up your scrambling skills
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