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Anti Cloaking Weapon Updated

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Ran Koraka Volition Cult The Volition Cult 0	Posted - 2013.07.05 07:06:00 - [1] - Quote ((REDO/UPDATE) Because the other thread is inaccessible) Cloaking devices remain one of the very few modules which do not have a practical counter. The current counter, as it has been explained, is to 1. be lucky and 2. be going fast enough with that good luck to have flung yourself in the right direction at the right speed at just the right time to cross the path of said cloaked vehicle within a 2500m sphere. I don't want to change cloaking. I don't want to break or nerf cloaking. I just do not believe that the the cloak in its current form precipitates the interaction desired by the developers. ItGÇÖs meant as a tool, not a near-panacea to protect its users. I am petitioning here to revisit an idea for a counter to it, a new tool for the sandbox. Focused Anti-Cloaking Sensor Module Module should be HIGH CPU but low PG and low cap use per cycle. Should be a high slot same as a cloak. Like a cloak you may fit only 1 module. Base T1, acts like a flashlight with a 30 degree beam out of the front of the ship specific range lets say 25 KM (I assume it would need to be playtested to see how it behaves) Base T2, same with a 45 (1.5 of the T1 module) degree beam out of the front of the ship with a 30 KM range (play testing as above for real numbers). Scripts to enhance the reach at cost of breadth and vice versa might be neat. Skill Focused Astrometric Detection : Each level adds 1% to the breadth and range of the Focused Anti-Cloaking Module. 5% reduction in CPU fitting requirements. Several other devices of similar basic descriptions using different shapes and sizes have existed here's where this will differ. IT WOULD ONLY MAKE THE SHIP APPEAR IN THE VISIBLE SPECTRUM. THE CLOAKED SHIP COULD NOT BE TARGETED ONLY MANUALLY APPROACHED. The cloaked ship would show up on the overview as a flickering intermittent signal and you could focus your camera on him. The scanner only enables the cloaked ship to be seen, manually approached, and then de-cloaked if the NORMAL 2500 m area is breached. same as it is currently. The trick is that there would be no sign that the detecting ship has the scanner, it would have no "beam" or graphic, no warning for the cloaked vessel. Keeping the entire interaction a Space-goers version of Red October.. a guessing game. One ping only Vasilli :) If you cloak camp off grid this isn't going to change that, you can still camp all you want. This module and skill just means you can be found if your on-grid "interacting". If you want to play, there should be a risk. Nothing in all of EVE diminishes the risk of success more than the current behavior of the cloaking system, pulse warp, and the various ships which use it nearly without contest. Luck should play a part, character skill and player skill must play a part. The current cloak users have all that and a module and special ships to take advantage of that situation. CCP even the playing field, give us our opportunity to play with, and challenge the comfort level just a little, of the cloak using players. I think the proposal meets those goals of moderation and equity for all players in the world and fits the spirit of the game by being another tool to play with in the sand. Sincerely and Thank you, Ran Koraka
Tchulen Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult 497	Posted - 2013.07.05 07:25:00 - [2] - Quote This doesn't balance cloaks, it completely unbalances them. Cloaks already nerf your ship. Cov ops cloaked ships are inherently bad in comparison to other ships in their size class to balance the cov ops cloak. EDIT - Should have read the rest of your post. On an interceptor this would allow it to easily decloak a cloaked ship. It would drastically reduce the uses of cloaks. If this were to be introduced, all negative aspects of cloaks would need to be removed and the use of MWD and afterburners at the same time as using a cloak needs to be added to balance it out. If you're on grid, cloaked, you are at risk. There are plenty of times a cloaked ship gets found by accident or by design already. I've lost cloaked ships on grid. They are definitely at risk currently. You just want them to be much more at risk, thus the need for balance measures.
HiddenPorpoise BG-1 The Craniac 8	Posted - 2013.07.05 07:28:00 - [3] - Quote A devise that proxy decloaks as it goes? Why, where I'm from we call those bombs.
Mr Doctor Los Polos Hermanos. Happy Cartel 25	Posted - 2013.07.05 07:41:00 - [4] - Quote The only anticloak idea that I've read on here that sounded in any way half decent was the one that was a pulse that emanates for 15km round your ship, only works once every 10 seconds, can only be fit to specialised ships (T2 versions of the new destroyers) and doesnt decloak, only shows a vague silhouette for a few seconds. It was a decent well thought out idea that could kind of work without a huge nerf to cloaky ships. Anything that decloaks at range is stupid though and should never be in the game.
Jint Hikaru OffWorld Exploration Inc 671	Posted - 2013.07.05 08:06:00 - [5] - Quote Came expecting system wide cloak probes..... Found an i-win button for gate camps Left disappointed. Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Purps Anatidae Rising 1	Posted - 2013.07.05 08:08:00 - [6] - Quote And can we have a device for Cov-Ops ships that completely removes the effects from armour/shield mods, burners, drones, and MWDs please.
Maldiro Selkurk CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS strain SELKURK 13	Posted - 2013.07.05 08:50:00 - [7] - Quote There are two things between me and even beginning to support your idea: 1) you allow any vessel to effectively become cloak ship hunters when most cloaked ships operate horribly with a cloak on them. 2) part of the reason cloaks exist is to give ships a chance to beat gatecamps and this would basically make gatecamps impenetrable, ship eating machines. I understand there is serious frustration about cloaked ships afk camping in Sov space if i understand it correctly but that problem needs addressed another way, this wont work. I tried for at least an hour to come up with a counter proposal but no matter what i thought up it made gatecamps impenetrable and / or it made exploration vessels worthless.
Maldiro Selkurk CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS strain SELKURK 13	Posted - 2013.07.05 08:58:00 - [8] - Quote Jint Hikaru wrote: Came expecting system wide cloak probes..... Found an i-win button for gate camps Left disappointed. 1. please add an appropriate reference credit to "Hitchhiker's" to your quote. 2. If your system wide cloak probes comment was an endorsement of such an idea they destroy exploration vessels actually being used for exploration.
Mr Doctor Los Polos Hermanos. Happy Cartel 25	Posted - 2013.07.05 09:07:00 - [9] - Quote Not if they keep moving becuase pinpoint+warptime gives any frigate time to coast away from a landing ship even if it releases drones. Which also makes the idea mostly useless too since AFK cloakers will just fit overdrives, fly minmatar and keep going at max speed down.... so it kind of solves nothing. Well.... T1 frigs+proto cloak could perhaps get caught....
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 15082	Posted - 2013.07.05 09:09:00 - [10] - Quote Cloaks already have counters and are balanced. So why is this idea even required? Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Jint Hikaru OffWorld Exploration Inc 672	Posted - 2013.07.05 09:47:00 - [11] - Quote Maldiro Selkurk wrote: 2. If your system wide cloak probes comment was an endorsement of such an idea they destroy exploration vessels actually being used for exploration. God no, no endorsement from me. It's just what i have come to expect from threads titled like this one. Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Danika Princip Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team 1437	Posted - 2013.07.05 10:29:00 - [12] - Quote Sure, if I can have a button to force you to undock and/or eject you from a POS.
Meditril T.R.I.A.D 296	Posted - 2013.07.05 10:54:00 - [13] - Quote Simply NO! As long cloaked ships can't engage you cloaked there is really no need for an uncloaking device. Next you will ask for an "undocking device" to undock people docked up in a station or what?
Sura Sadiva Entropic Tactical Crew 480	Posted - 2013.07.05 11:14:00 - [14] - Quote lol, NO
Verity Sovereign Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter 488	Posted - 2013.07.05 11:20:00 - [15] - Quote Jint Hikaru wrote: Came expecting system wide cloak probes..... Found an i-win button for gate camps Left disappointed. Same here... I've nearly been decloaked on a gate in a slasher plodding along with a T1 cloak, while a groups of about 5 people were orbiting the gate in different directions with MWDs on, drones out... one got to within 5km.... and I had initiated an evasive turn well in advance, my nannod and ODd slasher was making, I dunno, something around 60 m/s. They would have decloaked me... though I think I also would have stood a good chance of just warping off before being locked - never bothering with a cloak at all. If they allow this, I want a probe launcher that can launch a probe through gates and WHs to give a list of things visible on overview on the other side, and maybe even allow for D scanning as well. If someone comes on grid and cloaks up, I don't have a problem with a way to hunt them. I like that this idea is limited to ships on the same grid. but it would just make gate camps, which are already too OPd, way too OPd. So, if we're given a reliable way to avoid gate camps (that is better than have a <900k sp alt with no implants fly ahead of you in a rookie ship), then I could consider such proposals
Johan Toralen IIIJIIIITIIII 174	Posted - 2013.07.05 12:04:00 - [16] - Quote I love how such threads always start with "i don't want to nerf cloak" before then proposing a big nerf to cloaking.
Balthazar Lestrane Happy Endings. The Retirement Club 16	Posted - 2013.07.05 12:12:00 - [17] - Quote This thread barely even warrants a response at all. Here you go: http://25.media.tumblr.com/225a3750eb58a87f552dd714ab9a63dc/tumblr_mpfdk2iZ9t1r5o8a8o1_500.gif
Azrael Dinn The 20th Legion Mildly Sober 140	Posted - 2013.07.05 12:29:00 - [18] - Quote Mag's wrote: Cloaks already have counters and are balanced. So why is this idea even required? Cause they are not balanced and no one can't find them if they would like to go out and find them. +1 to any idea that allows people to find cloaked ships.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 10536	Posted - 2013.07.05 12:38:00 - [19] - Quote Azrael Dinn wrote: Mag's wrote: Cloaks already have counters and are balanced. So why is this idea even required? Cause they are not balanced and no one can't find them if they would like to go out and find them. +1 to any idea that allows people to find cloaked ships. Your idea is insanely unbalanced. 1 Kings 12:11
Samillian Angry Mustellid 266	Posted - 2013.07.05 13:33:00 - [20] - Quote Another one for the list. The List NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Lallante Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 364	Posted - 2013.07.05 13:35:00 - [21] - Quote The OP would make most cloaking completely pointless. Every gatecamp would have an inty fit with that module.
Nikk Narrel Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor 1988	Posted - 2013.07.05 14:24:00 - [22] - Quote You are already being told, automatically and for no effort, every time a pilot enters or leaves a system. Adding in the means to follow up on this intel, with the ability to determine if a new pilot is cloaked or simply off grid, is not balanced. Require effort to become aware of pilots entering system before suggesting any means to add new detection ability that builds on this free intel. Building on free intel is not balanced, in this context. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK.
TheGunslinger42 All Web Investigations 1473	Posted - 2013.07.05 14:44:00 - [23] - Quote Ran Koraka wrote: ((REDO/UPDATE) Because the other thread is inaccessible) Cloaking devices remain one of the very few modules which do not have a practical counter Stopped reading there as the entire premise is flawed. This topic cannot be salvaged due to such a fundamentally flawed concept.
Ronny Hugo Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc. 3	Posted - 2013.07.05 15:26:00 - [24] - Quote Actually, I like the idea of having the ability to "ping" and discover if there are cloaked vessels around me. If the ability only could be activated lets say once per 50km radius bubble per five minutes, and didn't show the placement or number of cloaked vessels, only a weird space-time distortion effect across the whole field, if cloaked vessels are present within 50km radius, then it would add to the gameplay I think. The waiting between each five minute ping would be like Red October excitement and when you get a positive result all you can do is hope you can warp out before the cloakers decloak and rip you to pieces (they see the spacetime distortion as you do and know you know they're there). EDIT: Perhaps the ping could only result in spacetime distortion if a cloaker is moving? So even if you get a negative result there could be cloakers standing still around you, and it would add to the positive pings, because then you know they're moving, and could be moving towards you read to bomb you. Would really make things exciting, or what do you think?
Oldgrimeyass Demonic. Dominatus Atrum Mortis 11	Posted - 2013.07.05 15:37:00 - [25] - Quote Or maybe CCP could just make it so drones can be set to Patrol or Orbit at different distances from the ship
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 15088	Posted - 2013.07.05 15:44:00 - [26] - Quote Azrael Dinn wrote: Mag's wrote: Cloaks already have counters and are balanced. So why is this idea even required? Cause they are not balanced and no one can't find them if they would like to go out and find them. +1 to any idea that allows people to find cloaked ships. Well actually they are balanced. As no one can't find them, does this mean that someone can find them? You certainly know they are present. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Onomerous Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking 171	Posted - 2013.07.05 17:44:00 - [27] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Sure, if I can have a button to force you to undock and/or eject you from a POS. +1
Lance Stratos Stratos Industries Brothers of Tangra 2	Posted - 2013.07.05 23:46:00 - [28] - Quote Cloaking is not a problem, to use a model that says "oh you have been here for not even 10 minutes, let me de-cloak you." isn't fair or balanced. The best solution is something that is extremely difficult for a player to do or takes long enough that it gives the cloaker fair game, if he is there. my recommend solution would be something like a specific probe for scanning cloaky people. however it has a low scanner strength, can detect cloaked people. People in non-Cov Ops Ships take less time to scan, but still takes like 5 minutes to pinpoint (warp in would be a minimum of 10 or 20 rather then 0, so you still have to try and decloak them), and people in cov ops ships or cloaky T3s take longer. this means that for you to scan them they must be sitting still, if they are moving around they you know they are active. someone could be a bot warping around in your system cloaked for 3 hours non-stop? REPORT THEM or tell them to open a convo or you will. again this is just an idea, so hate on me all you like.
Nikk Narrel Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor 1991	Posted - 2013.07.06 00:14:00 - [29] - Quote Lance Stratos wrote: Cloaking is not a problem, to use a model that says "oh you have been here for not even 10 minutes, let me de-cloak you." isn't fair or balanced. The best solution is something that is extremely difficult for a player to do or takes long enough that it gives the cloaker fair game, if he is there. my recommend solution would be something like a specific probe for scanning cloaky people. however it has a low scanner strength, can detect cloaked people. People in non-Cov Ops Ships take less time to scan, but still takes like 5 minutes to pinpoint (warp in would be a minimum of 10 or 20 rather then 0, so you still have to try and decloak them), and people in cov ops ships or cloaky T3s take longer. this means that for you to scan them they must be sitting still, if they are moving around they you know they are active. someone could be a bot warping around in your system cloaked for 3 hours non-stop? REPORT THEM or tell them to open a convo or you will. again this is just an idea, so hate on me all you like. How does this increase the chances of PvE pilots exploding? You have clearly increased the odds of cloaked ships being found, just not as easy as the OP. As a miner, competing against my peers in other corps and alliances require them to risk going boom, and avoiding this by making better efforts. If I wanted a pure time-sink game, I would keep it the same, or balance more in favor of PvE survival like you or the OP. But I want to compete. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK.
Azrael Dinn The 20th Legion Mildly Sober 141	Posted - 2013.07.06 06:26:00 - [30] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Azrael Dinn wrote: Mag's wrote: Cloaks already have counters and are balanced. So why is this idea even required? Cause they are not balanced and no one can't find them if they would like to go out and find them. +1 to any idea that allows people to find cloaked ships. Your idea is insanely unbalanced. Well present a better solution to the problem then so that this talk about cloaks can end after years of complaining and we can start talking about something else. It's a topic that merges too often and there are always the two sides to it. And as much as you say my idea is out of balance I see that with the current mechanics the cloaks are even more out of balance. So present a solution to the problem mr CMS. I realy don't care what it is as long as something happens even if you get local removed and then add probes but something needs to be done.

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