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CCP! A lot of us want WiS

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 43 post(s)
Neve Talie-Ko EVE University Ivy League 28	Posted - 2011.10.25 19:27:00 - [391] - Quote I'd like to reiterate something I posted last week in the Trial users forum. I've tried this game three times and this is the first time I've pulled out the CC. The added layer of character metaphor having a person and a command center was what it took. I am not, however, firmly committed to any further WiS content. The core gameplay is what has always drawn me to Eve. There is the question of the competitive market, though.
Enik3 Greater Order Of Destruction Happy Endings 62	Posted - 2011.10.25 19:30:00 - [392] - Quote I suspect that most people would like WiS, but it would have to be something that was well developed. Not the ridiculous current incarnation that people were bored with after the first fifteen seconds. I weep at the thought of the type of person that would choose further development in WiS over fixing the myriad problems with core gameplay though.
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance 58	Posted - 2011.10.25 19:30:00 - [393] - Quote Montevius Williams wrote: I think most people DO want walking in stations, just not the way it was implemented. I'll be happier with it when there is someplaces to go and somethings to do.. the way it is the things we're doing are the things we were already doing just in a more cumbersome way. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG]
Kengutsi Akira Ministry of War Amarr Empire 372	Posted - 2011.10.25 19:34:00 - [394] - Quote Arin Fensfield wrote: No interest in getting involved in the inevitable arguments and insults, so all I'll say is I was very excited about the Incarna/Walking in Stations content, and I was extremely disappointed about the recent change of direction by the developers. I was more than happy to wait until the basic Incarna content was working properly before 'FiS' was focussed on again. so.... youd rather they run CCP into the ground than try to fix things? Yeah better if you do leave https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=255722#post255722 My stance on WiS
yumike Eve of Madness 53	Posted - 2011.10.25 19:36:00 - [395] - Quote Astor Daeoli wrote: I can't see EVE running at a playable FPS 40+ people instance with incarna's graphics while mainttaining a real time connection to theEVE's server? Would a CCP dev like to comment about this? Am I right or can CCP do this? I'm not entirely sure where your question is, if it is regarding the FPS then you may not understand (As many don't, and thats fine) the correlation between FPS and server. The tl;dr version is, They are not at all equal. You could have a 10second ping/latency and still run at 60frames per second. The longer version is, Server latency only describes game state updates (aka X person is moving to Z coordinates, but is currently at Y) and it leaves your client to render it. Your client is doing all the heavy lifting, This part in fact is no different then FiS. (X ship is moving to Z but is currently at Y) Your client intelligently handles everything else. Even for clothing on specific players walking around when someone walks into view you'll get a "game state update" X player is wearing YDHFJG(All the values for different appearances, that your client of course already has, and can render appropriately) In short, Yes the server can handle it. To the server it's irrelevant whether they are stick people, or perfectly animated 3d people. (Granted, the latter will probably include quite a few more values.) The issue isn't with CCP, it's with peoples computers. I honestly haven't played in cq at all, I shut it off the second I got in game but it's little different then rendering hundreds of ships slamming on a POS. If you have an older system your FPS will suffer, if not you should be good to go.
Hershman Creeper Collective 144	Posted - 2011.10.25 19:36:00 - [396] - Quote I agree that most people want support for WiS, but unfortunately the vocal minority will have the last word here. If ccp does the right thing and ignores the naysayers, we could feasibly get both FiS and WiS. You just need to moderate the amount of ingenuity dedicated in to station like features. My solution is like this: Hershman wrote: Come on ccp, our avatars aren't gettin any younger. Just do this please. Make a simple living room. It doesn't even matter how simple, take if from The Sims for all we care. Then turn "The Door" into an entity so when we click it, we spawn in the room. *plop* You are in the room with a few other avatars. That's it, done. Now you can put Incarna on the backburners. You've come too far to end it like this.
Kengutsi Akira Ministry of War Amarr Empire 372	Posted - 2011.10.25 19:39:00 - [397] - Quote Hershman wrote: I agree that most people want support for WiS, but unfortunately the vocal minority... see, its this **** that pisses most everyone off. The most vocal minority here are all the players here on the forums. The only opinion that matters is CCP's and CCP's is to shelve WiS https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=255722#post255722 My stance on WiS
Hershman G-Weezy 15	Posted - 2011.10.25 19:41:00 - [398] - Quote No, it is indeed true that most casual players are not the forumgoers you see posting here every day.
Aston Bradley Through the Looking Glass 21	Posted - 2011.10.25 19:41:00 - [399] - Quote Arin Fensfield wrote: Thanks for speaking up Aston, but I'm still about so I will answer. NP, but i will be honest with you, i am not agreeing on that let's wait for WiS to be finished before FiS part. FiS needs some new content, but most importantly it needs some fixes. CCP please fix my railguns I am still a supporter of WiS though, but not to the point that i will prefer to get WiS before some stuff in FIS get's fixed. Winter expansion is a good step in that direction. FiS should be the priority, but WiS should not be burried! Don't encourage CCP to make empty promises or Incarna will happen again!
Hershman G-Weezy 15	Posted - 2011.10.25 19:44:00 - [400] - Quote Here's my solution: link
EVE Stig Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 30	Posted - 2011.10.25 19:45:00 - [401] - Quote Kengutsi Akira wrote: Aston Bradley wrote: I don't think you are trolling, and believe or not. I strongly support your theory. Still, i believe WiS a worth working on. Even if takes an other 3 years (As long as FiS content keeps coming while it get's there.) lol see above. Im not changing my tune either, I felt this way all along. Its just the ppl that are now crying cause they shelved WiS that are pissing me off. GUYS let CCP HEAL before they decide to take another stab at WiS. Another round of mass unsub cause they shelved WiS is gonna do nothing but get more people on the street without a job. Its a Black Spiral theyre Dancing here. Mass unsub they shelf WiS/WoD. More mass unsubs They now HAVE to do somethting along the lines of working on several projects like they said they couldnt do in the first place. Unfinished content/underwhelming expansions follow and more mass unsubs (mind you all this time CCP (and the accounts) is getting smaller). When does it end? I can tell you there would be a point where it definately ends and not to "doom and gloom" but if we use mass unsubs to be the catalyst of that change thats where its GONNA end up. this. LET THEM HEAL OR WE **** IT ALL "Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!
Hershman G-Weezy 15	Posted - 2011.10.25 19:49:00 - [402] - Quote In reality its doable to have both WiS and FiS. You just need to moderate the amount of ingenuity dedicated to the station features and such and not bite off more than you can chew this time around.
Terminal Insanity Convex Enterprises 37	Posted - 2011.10.25 19:55:00 - [403] - Quote I think the majority dont care, however a significant minority does want it, and a small minority do not want it at all. nearly everyone including the haters are going to enjoy it, if only casually while they're making a trip to jita for pvp supplies or just waiting in their outpost for the next fleet op. It would also be a great way for ccp to experiment with MT like we know they want to, and it wouldn't have to effect internet spaceships in the process. if it makes them money, it makes eve's future that much more stable, and it would give them an avenue to abuse for that. I dont see why people Hate on CCP's MT anyway check out TF2 and see how much people actually spend to get glowing hats for their characters ... thats just a simulator... but THIS IS REAL. for those of you who dont play tf2 thats 750$ USD on a bunch of **** weapons and hats that everyone gets randomly anyways. All for the CHANCE of a HAT that GLOWS. This is why CCP wants in on MT, like every other videogame company. And its understandable, there are crazy ***** who blow thousands of dollars on this crap. Let them! and let it pad CCP's pockets and pay for less lag and more content. Anyways, WiS is awesome and is IMO a step needed to continue to compete in the MMO industry, even within its own 'space mmo' genre which it used to be virtually alone in, is now seeing competition, and WiS is something that could keep it ontop. WiS would also cater to the noobs who've had a bad experience in their spaceship, and would keep them around for another try. It would entirely change the newbie experience. Instead of just throwing them into a new ship and booting them back out to do it again, they would end up returning to WiS where they could talk with an agent 'in person' and have him explain what happened and what to do next, etc. It would make eve's newbs much more likely to stick around, which is sadly one of the ways eve loses a lot of players.
Aston Bradley Through the Looking Glass 21	Posted - 2011.10.25 19:57:00 - [404] - Quote Hershman wrote: In reality its doable to have both WiS and FiS. You just need to moderate the amount of ingenuity dedicated to the station features and such and not bite off more than you can chew this time around. Before we get to that they need to pimp the carbon engine. It's very nice to look at for sure, but it's unstable as hell. We only have CQ and look at all the bugs we have. FiS should be the priority, but WiS should not be burried! Don't encourage CCP to make empty promises or Incarna will happen again!
Kengutsi Akira Ministry of War Amarr Empire 107	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:00:00 - [405] - Quote Hershman wrote: In reality its doable to have both WiS and FiS. You just need to moderate the amount of ingenuity dedicated to the station features and such and not bite off more than you can chew this time around. Unfortionately, CCP have shown us they dont have the ability to DO this. And that was with MORE STAFF Now with less staff, Im thinking theyre even less likely to be able to do it Love the web team... I cant quote in a signature now Aidan Brooder: "And then do us all a favour and STFU ok? Because you are worse than The Mittani and the Goons." lol best praise ever
Barakkus 963	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:00:00 - [406] - Quote Astor Daeoli wrote: You are correct, I do not know how TQ runs. I am not a developer; however, I have played a lot of MMORPGs that launched with high level graphics. These game suffered from a lot of lag with smaller numbers of players per shard/shell than the average population of Jita. The graphics used in CQ already overheat my GPU (nvidea GTX260) with just one avatar in the room. In a few years time, say 2013 post Nvidea maxwell GPU (an expesive bit of kit when it comes out) we should get a gpu that can handle 40? to 125? incarna avatars with good fps. Maybe this would be the time for CCP to work on making "The Sims in Sapce" The problems other mmos you may have played could have been server side, most likely it was client side problems, poor optimization in the graphics engine most likely. Low FPS is not a server problem, it's a problem with your hardware not being able to keep up. All of the things you have mentioned are client side issues, nothing to do with overloading CCP's servers. I had no heat issues with an ATI HD 2600 XT, and I don't have any heat issues running 2 clients on an ATI HD 6750. There are a number of devblogs concerning the hardware used to run CQ, I highly recommend looking at them. It's really impressive. Lag is not defined by FPS, lag is when you click on something and nothing happens, like activating a module and it takes 30 seconds before the action actually happens. Poor FPS is entirely client side, and if you are getting low FPS you should be looking first at your GPU, then your CPU and other things.
Hershman G-Weezy 17	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:00:00 - [407] - Quote Terminal Insanity wrote: Anyways, WiS is awesome and is IMO a step needed to continue to compete in the MMO industry, even within its own 'space mmo' genre which it used to be virtually alone in, is now seeing competition, and WiS is something that could keep it ontop. WiS would also cater to the noobs who've had a bad experience in their spaceship, and would keep them around for another try. This is one of the things that makes wis good stuff. It increases accessibility to the game we all know and love. More players = more Eve. Why can't we have both WiS and rebalancing? I mean is it really that hard to change a few numbers like this: # Dramiel # cpuOutput: 145.0 => 133.0 # mass: 740700.0 => 950000.0 # maxVelocity: 473.0 => 460.0 # powerOutput: 38.0 => 37.0 # [*] scanResolution: 990.0 => 750.0
Kengutsi Akira Ministry of War Amarr Empire 107	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:02:00 - [408] - Quote Terminal Insanity wrote: nearly everyone including the haters are going to enjoy it, if only casually while they're making a trip to jita for pvp supplies or just waiting in their outpost for the next fleet op. Uh no... I turned it off and have no intention of using it at all. Unless they do like they were going to do and force it on us by removing the "opt out" button. Cause you cant see ppls' $1000 pants if you can choose not to load the station environment Love the web team... I cant quote in a signature now Aidan Brooder: "And then do us all a favour and STFU ok? Because you are worse than The Mittani and the Goons." lol best praise ever
Mekela Vinyl Roid 4	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:03:00 - [409] - Quote Kengutsi Akira wrote: Hershman wrote: I agree that most people want support for WiS, but unfortunately the vocal minority... see, its this **** that pisses most everyone off. The most vocal minority here are all the players here on the forums. The only opinion that matters is CCP's and CCP's is to shelve WiS Only problem with that is - CCP stated they were doing what they were doing because of the opinion of the vocal minority that didn't want WiS. Now we have basically a WiS war, and I am to the point where I am going to be one of those people that unsub probably when TOR comes out because I am bored with FiS. (I have done just about everything 0.0 alliance, low sec, and most everything that Highsec can offer and going backwards instead of forwards is not my idea of making the game better) I might come back if CCP ever gets its act together and stops screwing with me. Promise me something, make me wait 4 years then shelve it because they screwed up and decided to get greedy. (See NEX and WoD) No you can't have my stuff you greedy whiny beggers. I would rather burn it all than give it to you.
Astenion Spiritus Draconis 30	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:03:00 - [410] - Quote I'd love to have WiS, but I don't see why it's so hard to implement. Dumb down the graphics a bit for interaction so you don't blow up people's GPUs and voila! Establishments, entertainment, games, station missions, etc. would all be a welcome addition, I think, and I don't see why we have to choose between WiS and FiS. Start WiS out slowly with gameplay over graphics and just build from there. Eve's graphics weren't always as nice as they are now...they've been updated over time. As long as it doesn't look like Tennis on the Atari 2600, I don't see why it has to be shelved.
Kengutsi Akira Ministry of War Amarr Empire 107	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:05:00 - [411] - Quote Mekela wrote: Kengutsi Akira wrote: Hershman wrote: I agree that most people want support for WiS, but unfortunately the vocal minority... see, its this **** that pisses most everyone off. The most vocal minority here are all the players here on the forums. The only opinion that matters is CCP's and CCP's is to shelve WiS Only problem with that is - CCP stated they were doing what they were doing because of the opinion of the vocal minority that didn't want WiS. Now we have basically a WiS war, and I am to the point where I am going to be one of those people that unsub probably when TOR comes out because I am bored with FiS. (I have done just about everything 0.0 alliance, low sec, and most everything that Highsec can offer and going backwards instead of forwards is not my idea of making the game better) I might come back if CCP ever gets its act together and stops screwing with me. Promise me something, make me wait 4 years then shelve it because they screwed up and decided to get greedy. (See NEX and WoD) No you can't have my stuff you greedy whiny beggers. I would rather burn it all than give it to you. And it will be people like you that damage the game farther. Good job. WiS NAOW OR ILL LEEEEEEVE WAAAAAAAH God you sound two Love the web team... I cant quote in a signature now Aidan Brooder: "And then do us all a favour and STFU ok? Because you are worse than The Mittani and the Goons." lol best praise ever
Elanor Vega Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 19	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:05:00 - [412] - Quote Astenion wrote: I'd love to have WiS, but I don't see why it's so hard to implement. Dumb down the graphics a bit for interaction so you don't blow up people's GPUs and voila! Establishments, entertainment, games, station missions, etc. would all be a welcome addition, I think, and I don't see why we have to choose between WiS and FiS. Start WiS out slowly with gameplay over graphics and just build from there. Eve's graphics weren't always as nice as they are now...they've been updated over time. As long as it doesn't look like Tennis on the Atari 2600, I don't see why it has to be shelved. +10000
Hershman G-Weezy 17	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:06:00 - [413] - Quote Kengutsi Akira wrote: Hershman wrote: In reality its doable to have both WiS and FiS. You just need to moderate the amount of ingenuity dedicated to the station features and such and not bite off more than you can chew this time around. Unfortionately, CCP have shown us they dont have the ability to DO this. And that was with MORE STAFF Now with less staff, Im thinking theyre even less likely to be able to do it I believe CCP can do it if they try to lay the foundation for WiS: Get some small rooms with very basic interaction with other players... doing this but not trying to implement night clubs at the same time! I think since they said in the blog that more people are actually working on eve now because they are moved from that vampire mmo thing...
Elanor Vega Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 19	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:06:00 - [414] - Quote Hershman wrote: Terminal Insanity wrote: Anyways, WiS is awesome and is IMO a step needed to continue to compete in the MMO industry, even within its own 'space mmo' genre which it used to be virtually alone in, is now seeing competition, and WiS is something that could keep it ontop. WiS would also cater to the noobs who've had a bad experience in their spaceship, and would keep them around for another try. This is one of the things that makes wis good stuff. It increases accessibility. Why can't we have both WiS and rebalancing? I mean is it really that hard to change a few numbers like this: # Dramiel # cpuOutput: 145.0 => 133.0 # mass: 740700.0 => 950000.0 # maxVelocity: 473.0 => 460.0 # powerOutput: 38.0 => 37.0 # scanResolution: 990.0 => 750.0 +10000 i see some smart ppl here for a change...
Terminal Insanity Convex Enterprises 37	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:07:00 - [415] - Quote Kengutsi Akira wrote: Terminal Insanity wrote: nearly everyone including the haters are going to enjoy it, if only casually while they're making a trip to jita for pvp supplies or just waiting in their outpost for the next fleet op. Uh no... I turned it off and have no intention of using it at all. Unless they do like they were going to do and force it on us by removing the "opt out" button. Cause you cant see ppls' $1000 pants if you can choose not to load the station environment You're just afraid of change lol. You should have the option to never use WiS and you can ignore it completely, but the vast majority of players will find it amusing, even if only casually. It will introduce new content. MORE DIVERSE CONTENT, which will attract other groups of players who're interested in other things. And introduce them to your guns. I dont see the problem? You will just be locking yourself out of something because you're twisted up about them not fixing railguns for so long, or whatever your complaint is
Barakkus 1520	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:12:00 - [416] - Quote Astenion wrote: I'd love to have WiS, but I don't see why it's so hard to implement. Dumb down the graphics a bit for interaction so you don't blow up people's GPUs and voila! Establishments, entertainment, games, station missions, etc. would all be a welcome addition, I think, and I don't see why we have to choose between WiS and FiS. Start WiS out slowly with gameplay over graphics and just build from there. Eve's graphics weren't always as nice as they are now...they've been updated over time. As long as it doesn't look like Tennis on the Atari 2600, I don't see why it has to be shelved. There are lots of tricks many, if not all MMOs use to make the game playable client side when you have a lot of people visible in one area, I don't doubt they will utilize many of those tricks to make it playable. It wouldn't make sense to make everything rendered full quality if the objects aren't even close enough to be viewed in high quality rendering. Most MMOs (if not all) use a technique of rendering a set limit of avatars in high quality that are viewable and close enough to the camera, then switch everything else to low detail textures/shaders etc. CCP needs to fix the damn shaders for carbon though. They've actually released some fixes for a lot of the shader problems since CQ was released, but there's a lot more optimizations that need to be done to make it playable on a larger scale. http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc
Crucis Cassiopeiae EvE-COM 890	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:13:00 - [417] - Quote Hershman wrote: No, it is indeed true that most casual players are not the forumgoers you see posting here every day. casual players... or just players dont want to argue about things, they want to play... and thats why you dont see "just players" on forums too much... and on forums are ppl that like game so much or want to change things their way... or think that this is game that belongs only to them and attack ppl with "get out"... p.s. i want WiS
Aston Bradley Through the Looking Glass 22	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:14:00 - [418] - Quote Kengutsi Akira wrote: Mekela wrote: Kengutsi Akira wrote: Hershman wrote: I agree that most people want support for WiS, but unfortunately the vocal minority... see, its this **** that pisses most everyone off. The most vocal minority here are all the players here on the forums. The only opinion that matters is CCP's and CCP's is to shelve WiS Only problem with that is - CCP stated they were doing what they were doing because of the opinion of the vocal minority that didn't want WiS. Now we have basically a WiS war, and I am to the point where I am going to be one of those people that unsub probably when TOR comes out because I am bored with FiS. (I have done just about everything 0.0 alliance, low sec, and most everything that Highsec can offer and going backwards instead of forwards is not my idea of making the game better) I might come back if CCP ever gets its act together and stops screwing with me. Promise me something, make me wait 4 years then shelve it because they screwed up and decided to get greedy. (See NEX and WoD) No you can't have my stuff you greedy whiny beggers. I would rather burn it all than give it to you. And it will be people like you that damage the game farther. Good job. WiS NAOW OR ILL LEEEEEEVE WAAAAAAAH God you sound two Calm down, i think CCP got the message that FIS needs to be the priority. I think most of us here agree on that decision, and some are just asking that HiS is not totally forgotten. As for your remark about staff. Once Dust is launched they'll have more than the man power they need to keep improving it while keeping FiS the top concern. FiS should be the priority, but WiS should not be burried! Don't encourage CCP to make empty promises or Incarna will happen again!
Mekela Vinyl Roid 5	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:14:00 - [419] - Quote Kengutsi Akira wrote: And it will be people like you that damage the game farther. Good job. WiS NAOW OR ILL LEEEEEEVE WAAAAAAAH God you sound two Huh I can't state my opinion, and I never said WiS now or I'll leave I said I am pissed because they promised me something I waited 4 years and they told me - we aren't going to do it now. I also said I most likely will wait till december and if they can't get their act together then I might leave. I plan on voting my displeasure with my wallet sence they ignore me till that happens (Isn't this the whole reason we are having this debate CCP screwed up and people left. Well I am giving them fair warning I am not liking the way they have decided to fix things) The last bastion of people who can't form an arguement is to start calling them names and making personal attacks.
Barakkus 964	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:17:00 - [420] - Quote Btw, CCP since you're watching this, if you want Incarna to be successful, release more than 1 room and make it align with the video demonstrations you release. Showing those then getting something completely different and on a much smaller scale than what you get everyone hyped up about is what is killing you. When you show the public something, you need to align your release with those expectations. Incarna as it is now was just too small scale for anyone to really get into it. In addition, forcing people to mess with avatars, when it didn't really make logical sense for them to be getting out of their ships was the other mistake. I think they'll do a good job if they try to not rush it. Granted it's been in development for over 5 years now (probably closer to 7 or 8). Really don't rush it out next time, and start small, but don't make us jailed in a little room with no one to share the experience with. That's what an MMO is all about, shared experience, not sitting in a closet playing with your self /giggle.

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