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Hexxx	Posted - 2005.12.11 16:45:00 - [61] Edited by: Hexxx on 11/12/2005 16:45:48 Quote: "Medals & Awards External display of your accomplishments is a large part of many MMO's, the "level" ladder being the most prominent case of such display of achievement but more associated with the grind of course. For EVE, Medals & Awards is a general tool to hook something visible to an event, which is either just for show or gives some sort of benefit. As such, these should simply be "implants" which you can't remove (except by the game). This would be highly used by War Victory Conditions and Factional Warfare to name a few but also tied into ECR. This would complement fully the character creation overhaul, allowing the schools/ancestries to be a "medal" which can then be changed by going to school again. Advanced shools and training would also be possible, like through high level agents etc." Maybe they want to move to a better system than kill mails. Maybe Medals and what not for player Wars? Geez, everyone is always about "now, now, NOW", start thinking long term here. Help develop a better system. Be constructive. Make suggestions on how to make it better. I'd suggest working on the spelling and grammar in general as well but let's take things one step at a time. edit: Semantic error corrected.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.12.11 16:46:00 - [62] Originally by: Hexxx Quote: "Medals & Awards External display of your accomplishments is a large part of many MMO's, the "level" ladder being the most prominent case of such display of achievement but more associated with the grind of course. For EVE, Medals & Awards is a general tool to hook something visible to an event, which is either just for show or gives some sort of benefit. As such, these should simply be "implants" which you can't remove (except by the game). This would be highly used by War Victory Conditions and Factional Warfare to name a few but also tied into ECR. This would complement fully the character creation overhaul, allowing the schools/ancestries to be a "medal" which can then be changed by going to school again. Advanced shools and training would also be possible, like through high level agents etc." Maybe they want to move to a better system than kill mails. Maybe Medals and what not for player Wars? Geez, everyone is always about "now, now, NOW", start thinking long term here. Help develop a better system. Be constructive. Make suggestions on to make it better. I'd suggest working on the spelling and grammar in general as well but let's take things one step at a time. Its a nice idea, but eliminating the ability to see what the enemy lost when you killed him is a bit silly. - Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
Hexxx	Posted - 2005.12.11 16:47:00 - [63] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Hexxx Quote: "Medals & Awards External display of your accomplishments is a large part of many MMO's, the "level" ladder being the most prominent case of such display of achievement but more associated with the grind of course. For EVE, Medals & Awards is a general tool to hook something visible to an event, which is either just for show or gives some sort of benefit. As such, these should simply be "implants" which you can't remove (except by the game). This would be highly used by War Victory Conditions and Factional Warfare to name a few but also tied into ECR. This would complement fully the character creation overhaul, allowing the schools/ancestries to be a "medal" which can then be changed by going to school again. Advanced shools and training would also be possible, like through high level agents etc." Maybe they want to move to a better system than kill mails. Maybe Medals and what not for player Wars? Geez, everyone is always about "now, now, NOW", start thinking long term here. Help develop a better system. Be constructive. Make suggestions on to make it better. I'd suggest working on the spelling and grammar in general as well but let's take things one step at a time. Its a nice idea, but eliminating the ability to see what the enemy lost when you killed him is a bit silly. So have that included in the new "system" maybe. Instead of kill mails why not a record and log for each ship destruction event? How about the kind of formatted detail found in the wallet for journal entires? Comon!
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.12.11 16:49:00 - [64] Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Hexxx Quote: "Medals & Awards External display of your accomplishments is a large part of many MMO's, the "level" ladder being the most prominent case of such display of achievement but more associated with the grind of course. For EVE, Medals & Awards is a general tool to hook something visible to an event, which is either just for show or gives some sort of benefit. As such, these should simply be "implants" which you can't remove (except by the game). This would be highly used by War Victory Conditions and Factional Warfare to name a few but also tied into ECR. This would complement fully the character creation overhaul, allowing the schools/ancestries to be a "medal" which can then be changed by going to school again. Advanced shools and training would also be possible, like through high level agents etc." Maybe they want to move to a better system than kill mails. Maybe Medals and what not for player Wars? Geez, everyone is always about "now, now, NOW", start thinking long term here. Help develop a better system. Be constructive. Make suggestions on to make it better. I'd suggest working on the spelling and grammar in general as well but let's take things one step at a time. Its a nice idea, but eliminating the ability to see what the enemy lost when you killed him is a bit silly. So have that included in the new "system" maybe. Instead of kill mails why not a record and log for each ship destruction event? How about the kind of formatted detail found in the wallet for journal entires? Comon! That would be utterly sweet. - Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
rig0r	Posted - 2005.12.11 16:56:00 - [65] The medal and ranking stuff is all good and well, but we will be well into 2006 when that gets into the game (if it does at all). So, that's not an excuse for this killmail nerf.
Seleene	Posted - 2005.12.11 17:47:00 - [66] LEAVE. IT. ALONE! - The REAL Eve Political Map!
BloodSpoon	Posted - 2005.12.11 17:53:00 - [67] Originally by: Seleene LEAVE. IT. ALONE! /signed "ooooohh theres nothing wrong with killer robots from venus"
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.12.11 18:41:00 - [68] Originally by: babyblue Originally by: rig0r What's the point of using unicode for killmails anyway ? Well, Eve is now a Unicode client, due to the need for support of other language/locales. So we should be able to drop our OWN fonts in. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."

Oveur	Posted - 2005.12.11 19:11:00 - [69] Don't worry. The change decreases the killmail from 5000 to 3500 characters, but instead we're probably going to cut out some needless repeated stuff (less verbose) or send longer killmails as multiples mails. That is of course, until this will simply all be part of a seperate and new logging system, which is much more efficient and doesn't rely on evemails. ps. This decrease applies to all mails by the looks of it, the killmails are simply the most common thing that uses so many characters. Senior Producer EVE Online

Righteous Fury	Posted - 2005.12.11 20:59:00 - [70] Edited by: Righteous Fury on 11/12/2005 21:02:47 double post
Righteous Fury	Posted - 2005.12.11 21:03:00 - [71] Originally by: Oveur Don't worry. The change decreases the killmail from 5000 to 3500 characters, but instead we're probably going to cut out some needless repeated stuff (less verbose) or send longer killmails as multiples mails. For the sake of everyone who runs a killboard Oveur, please don't change the formatting of killmails too radically. Every time a killmail is changed, dozens of killboard maintainers have to rewrite their code to acommodate both new and old mails. I haven't had much of a gripe with the past mail changes because adding stuff like alliance's was useful. If you're going to change it, at the current time multiple mails would be much easier for the playerbase than rewriting the entire killmail system. edit: The changing of the mail system into automatically splitting up large mails would be very useful, for example I've lost count of the number of times that I've gone off on a rant in alliance mail, only to be stopped mid-sentence when I hit the character limit.
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.12.11 21:10:00 - [72] Originally by: Oveur Don't worry. The change decreases the killmail from 5000 to 3500 characters, but instead we're probably going to cut out some needless repeated stuff (less verbose) or send longer killmails as multiples mails. That is of course, until this will simply all be part of a seperate and new logging system, which is much more efficient and doesn't rely on evemails. ps. This decrease applies to all mails by the looks of it, the killmails are simply the most common thing that uses so many characters. First thing you can cut out is the security stati, the killer's security status isn't exactly killmail material (whoever is interested enough will just get the latest sec status from in game) and the system status can be removed as well (most self-respecting boards have a database registering each system and accompanying stats for it, many can even generate maps of custom systems...) Also a new format for the following: Type: Wrath Cruise Missile I (Cargo) Quantity: 233 Could be worked out such as simply: 233: Wrath Cruise Missile I (Cargo) This example would save 15 characters per item. Ar+es n. Greek Mythology - The god of war. v. Eve online - Expensive and useless

Oveur	Posted - 2005.12.11 21:31:00 - [73] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Oveur Don't worry. The change decreases the killmail from 5000 to 3500 characters, but instead we're probably going to cut out some needless repeated stuff (less verbose) or send longer killmails as multiples mails. That is of course, until this will simply all be part of a seperate and new logging system, which is much more efficient and doesn't rely on evemails. ps. This decrease applies to all mails by the looks of it, the killmails are simply the most common thing that uses so many characters. First thing you can cut out is the security stati, the killer's security status isn't exactly killmail material (whoever is interested enough will just get the latest sec status from in game) and the system status can be removed as well (most self-respecting boards have a database registering each system and accompanying stats for it, many can even generate maps of custom systems...) Also a new format for the following: Type: Wrath Cruise Missile I (Cargo) Quantity: 233 Could be worked out such as simply: 233: Wrath Cruise Missile I (Cargo) This example would save 15 characters per item. Yes, exactly, less verbose. Also called "cutting out needless repeated stuff" :) Senior Producer EVE Online

BloodSpoon	Posted - 2005.12.11 21:37:00 - [74] why not just call it cutting the fat?....like that showtime rotissorie does...jsut set-it and forget-it! "ooooohh theres nothing wrong with killer robots from venus"
Darmed Khan	Posted - 2005.12.11 21:48:00 - [75] Edited by: Darmed Khan on 11/12/2005 21:47:54 Originally by: Oveur ps. This decrease applies to all mails by the looks of it, the killmails are simply the most common thing that uses so many characters. That's because for the last year or so we've only been allowed to send evemails up to 1000 characters in length However I've just checked on the test server, and it is indeed true that we can send long evemails, certainly up to 3k characters. I'd give an exact figure, but mails that are too long seem to get eaten by the system without a warning goes to prepare bug report
Svett	Posted - 2005.12.12 00:05:00 - [76] Originally by: Amthrianius Originally by: Rells Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Rells Kill mails are a hack. If you want to track kill standings then CCP should just make an official kill board and not futz around with generated mails. Personally I couldnt care less about them. Then why did you whine that they should be nerfed? Please remind me where exactly I whined about kill mails being nerfed. I dont seem to see it in this post or any other post ive ever made. Originally by: Rod Blaine Hey, dont be angry :p What I mean is that in some cases (/me looks at some BoB pilots), the eagerness to get on the killmail is clouding better judgement. I'm glad that this change undoes some of that by simply making killboard ranking less valid. I know, some people really live for it, but tbh, I'm getting pretty damn annoyed by the killmail-focused play these days. Just my opinion, no need to get angry over it. Im with you on this. People get overawed by kill mails and fail to work as a team. Its not really about not being on the mail. Its the interest to see what was fitted. you just wana see how many stabs a crow can fit
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.12.12 00:08:00 - [77] Multiple mails Melikes. - Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
Fire Stone	Posted - 2005.12.12 00:10:00 - [78] Originally by: Oveur That is of course, until this will simply all be part of a seperate and new logging system, which is much more efficient and doesn't rely on evemails. Most interesting part highlighted....
Steven Dynahir	Posted - 2005.12.12 06:31:00 - [79] Originally by: Saeris Tal'Urduar Thats gonna suck for an alliance that pays it Pvpr's based on kills, like ASCN. Then they should use the game mechanics, and pay it PVPr's based on the corpses. And yes, I know that due to instawarp of a pod it's harder to get the corpse, but.. ElSmS on.. P.S. Kill mails = bad. --- Home, sweet home.
Steven Dynahir	Posted - 2005.12.12 06:41:00 - [80] Originally by: Oveur Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Oveur Don't worry. The change decreases the killmail from 5000 to 3500 characters, but instead we're probably going to cut out some needless repeated stuff (less verbose) or send longer killmails as multiples mails. That is of course, until this will simply all be part of a seperate and new logging system, which is much more efficient and doesn't rely on evemails. ps. This decrease applies to all mails by the looks of it, the killmails are simply the most common thing that uses so many characters. First thing you can cut out is the security stati, the killer's security status isn't exactly killmail material (whoever is interested enough will just get the latest sec status from in game) and the system status can be removed as well (most self-respecting boards have a database registering each system and accompanying stats for it, many can even generate maps of custom systems...) Also a new format for the following: Type: Wrath Cruise Missile I (Cargo) Quantity: 233 Could be worked out such as simply: 233: Wrath Cruise Missile I (Cargo) This example would save 15 characters per item. Yes, exactly, less verbose. Also called "cutting out needless repeated stuff" :) 233;203;0 (233 units, of itemcode 203, equiped as type 0 (cargo)) Would that be simpler. It has the same volume of information, but readability kind of sucks. Even tho I do not like the idea of kill mails at all, the thing is that when such a mail is send to someone who likes to see the mail, but who has no intention of using a "killboard".. Then the "233: Wrath Cruise Missile I (Cargo)" makes him wonder what this might be. More verbose aproach makes the human reader comprehend what is/has happened, the killboard doesn't care since the parser logic is coded in the program (by someone who understood). --- Home, sweet home.
Psych0	Posted - 2005.12.12 08:17:00 - [81] Here is a wild idea scrap kill mails 100% instead make a new system.. Introduce a new corp role.. Corp Secretary.(What ever) And make Kill Papers(ingame item) that ppl can request from a concord agent. ppl with the corp role can pick up papers for all ppl in the intire corp. These kill papers should be copyable so you can give proof of a kill to employee(if youre an assasin). And then the Paper ofc has the kill info. It wont create lag during fight bc it isnt automatic send to ppl. Perhaps even wait with generating the papers until DT.
Avon	Posted - 2005.12.12 09:20:00 - [82] Originally by: Oveur Yes, exactly, less verbose. Also called "cutting out needless repeated stuff" :) If "cutting out needless repeated stuff" is CCP's idea of "less verbose", then maybe the character limit will need to be increased afterwards? ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Selic	Posted - 2005.12.12 11:02:00 - [83] Could someone send me an evemail with some urls for these killboards? (I'm not sure if posting them here is allowed) I would love to see how everyone is fitting their ships for combat and how they fared. :)
rig0r	Posted - 2005.12.12 11:30:00 - [84] Edited by: rig0r on 12/12/2005 11:30:29 Originally by: Selic Could someone send me an evemail with some urls for these killboards? (I'm not sure if posting them here is allowed) I would love to see how everyone is fitting their ships for combat and how they fared. :) Linkage
Sable Moran	Posted - 2005.12.12 16:26:00 - [85] Originally by: Deja Thoris It's not about griefing, its about PvP. Theres a massive difference and you know it. It's not about PvP, its about ***** measurement. Theres (sic) a massive difference and you know it. ----- Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene 5, Moon 4, Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Ammo at affordable prices.
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.12.12 16:37:00 - [86] Originally by: Sable Moran Originally by: Deja Thoris It's not about griefing, its about PvP. Theres a massive difference and you know it. It's not about PvP, its about *** measurement. Theres (sic) a massive difference and you know it. Yup. The only thing that matters is who flies out of a battle and who doesn't. Killmails, killboards and "my Big ***** Gun strikes cardboard box for 91,200 damage" bios/sigs are only the crutch of the "Counterstrike in Space" crowd. You don't "keep score" in a war.
Somatic Neuron	Posted - 2005.12.12 16:53:00 - [87] Originally by: Oveur That is of course, until this will simply all be part of a seperate and new logging system, which is much more efficient and doesn't rely on evemails. I am hoping that it is something like this.. Killmail Proposal: Killmails should be sent to a kill log file (much like the game log is recorded now). The ability to turn killmail logging on and off, plus a simple XML storage format and an external reader would be nice. For instance: <killmail> <killmailID>1234567890</killmailID> <datetime>12/15/2005 14:05:37</datetime> <system>30000142</system> <victim> <characterID>472235806</characterID> <corporation>0000128753</corporation> <alliance>0000000289</alliance> <shiptype>17738</shiptype> <items> <item fitted="1" quantity="1">14696</item> <item fitted="1" quantity="1">14706</item> <item fitted="1" quantity="4">18068</item> <item fitted="1" quantity="3">18608</item> <item fitted="1" quantity="2">2032</item> <item fitted="0" quantity="30">11396</item> </items> </victim> <attackers> <attacker> <characterID>846463377</characterID> <corporation>0000128732</corporation> <alliance></alliance> <shiptype>606</shiptype> <weapontype>3638</weapontype> <finalblow>1</finalblow> </attacker> </attackers> </killmail> ----------
Hexxx	Posted - 2005.12.12 16:56:00 - [88] Sigh... Anyhow, the kill "mails" should, in a perfect world, be abolished. Keep reading please. I know the first reflex is to hit post and not read the entire thing. Mailing the information makes it difficult to sort through, creating the need for killboards. A better system, akin to the functions and organization of the wallet with general ledger entries, would be a much better solution. Combining this with the eventual integration of awards and medals would make it an even better system for all parties involved. At the moment, the Devs are addressing a mail issue from what I understand. A brief period of transition will follow as they adjust the current systems to the new limitations/restrictions. Perhaps surviving for a few weeks without your kill mails is the closet thing to getting stabbed in the eye, for the rest of us, we'll likely apply a bit of patience and suggest improvements. After all, they do have to change the format. Why not give them input on that? I don't see them lifting the changes to the mail system as the reason it was changed addresses a rather global issue (unicode). Saying much else is really just a waste of your time.
Hexxx	Posted - 2005.12.12 16:57:00 - [89] Originally by: Somatic Neuron Originally by: Oveur That is of course, until this will simply all be part of a seperate and new logging system, which is much more efficient and doesn't rely on evemails. I am hoping that it is something like this.. Killmail Proposal: Killmails should be sent to a kill log file (much like the game log is recorded now). The ability to turn killmail logging on and off, plus a simple XML storage format and an external reader would be nice. For instance: <killmail> <killmailID>1234567890</killmailID> <datetime>12/15/2005 14:05:37</datetime> <system>30000142</system> <victim> <characterID>472235806</characterID> <corporation>0000128753</corporation> <alliance>0000000289</alliance> <shiptype>17738</shiptype> <items> <item fitted="1" quantity="1">14696</item> <item fitted="1" quantity="1">14706</item> <item fitted="1" quantity="4">18068</item> <item fitted="1" quantity="3">18608</item> <item fitted="1" quantity="2">2032</item> <item fitted="0" quantity="30">11396</item> </items> </victim> <attackers> <attacker> <characterID>846463377</characterID> <corporation>0000128732</corporation> <alliance></alliance> <shiptype>606</shiptype> <weapontype>3638</weapontype> <finalblow>1</finalblow> </attacker> </attackers> </killmail> Excellent suggestion.
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.12.12 17:08:00 - [90] Originally by: Farjung It's nice to know why one party flew out of the battle and the other didn't though. Destroyed items reveal a large part of this. Ok, I'll grant you that. And yes, I'll admit a certain amount of strategic "keeping score" makes a lot of sense. I guess I'm just railing against the "I'll kill him so I'll get another killmail I can post on our alliance killboard!" mentality I see all too much of these days.

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