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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Amthrianius
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Posted - 2005.12.09 21:59:00 -
[1]
Seems to cause more problems than its worth tbh. It ruins the eve font and now
"Due to Unicode changes, a maximum character limit of 3,500 characters has been added to killmails. This is to prevent errors and lack of receipt of a killmail when a mails length exceeded the limit. "
:/
Say bye bye to items destroyed and more than certain amounts of people people on mails :/
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.12.09 22:17:00 -
[2]
...No ****.
Lots of repeated words and double spaces I bet are still there too.
(The UI and supporting features take a step back every patch it seems)
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Rells
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Posted - 2005.12.09 22:20:00 -
[3]
So what?
Do you PvP for a reason or just to find some part of your anatomy to measure against someone else?
◄ I must not fear.
◄ Fear is the mind-killer.
◄ Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.
◄ -- Paul Atreides
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.12.09 22:20:00 -
[4]
Sorry, but why should I care again ?
Ok, so you can't calculate the damage done to cargo ro fitted mods exactly anymore... Nor can you have a consistently accurate killboard ranking either.
Sorry, only see good sides to this personally, especially the alst bit.
_______________________________________________
Power to the players !
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.12.09 22:24:00 -
[5]
Then remove killmails.
Because bluntly if the game lies, the information's less than worthless and it's a waste of space. No killmails, EVER. And no mails to the player to inform him things like skills loss. After all, he should be able to work it out, right?
YES THAT WAS SARCASM.
Or you could realise that some of us LIKE killmails? If you don't want em, make an option for that. Don't nerf the UI and supporting features for the rest of us with your whining.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.12.09 22:27:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Rells
Kill mails are a hack. If you want to track kill standings then CCP should just make an official kill board and not futz around with generated mails.
Personally I couldnt care less about them.
Then why did you whine that they should be nerfed?
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Rells
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Posted - 2005.12.09 22:27:00 -
[7]
Kill mails are a hack. If you want to track kill standings then CCP should just make an official kill board and not futz around with generated mails.
Personally I couldnt care less about them.
◄ I must not fear.
◄ Fear is the mind-killer.
◄ Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.
◄ -- Paul Atreides
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.12.09 22:27:00 -
[8]
Hey, dont be angry :p
What I mean is that in some cases (/me looks at some BoB pilots), the eagerness to get on the killmail is clouding better judgement.
I'm glad that this change undoes some of that by simply making killboard ranking less valid.
I know, some people really live for it, but tbh, I'm getting pretty damn annoyed by the killmail-focused play these days.
Just my opinion, no need to get angry over it.
_______________________________________________
Power to the players !
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MysticNZ
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Posted - 2005.12.09 22:29:00 -
[9]
If you don't care, don't post.
This is stupid IMO.
Originally by: Nyphur
I'm hungry and naked. That answer your question?
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Rells
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Posted - 2005.12.09 22:31:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Rells
Kill mails are a hack. If you want to track kill standings then CCP should just make an official kill board and not futz around with generated mails.
Personally I couldnt care less about them.
Then why did you whine that they should be nerfed?
Please remind me where exactly I whined about kill mails being nerfed. I dont seem to see it in this post or any other post ive ever made.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Hey, dont be angry :p
What I mean is that in some cases (/me looks at some BoB pilots), the eagerness to get on the killmail is clouding better judgement.
I'm glad that this change undoes some of that by simply making killboard ranking less valid.
I know, some people really live for it, but tbh, I'm getting pretty damn annoyed by the killmail-focused play these days.
Just my opinion, no need to get angry over it.
Im with you on this. People get overawed by kill mails and fail to work as a team.
◄ I must not fear.
◄ Fear is the mind-killer.
◄ Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.
◄ -- Paul Atreides
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Amthrianius
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Posted - 2005.12.09 22:32:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Rells
Kill mails are a hack. If you want to track kill standings then CCP should just make an official kill board and not futz around with generated mails.
Personally I couldnt care less about them.
Then why did you whine that they should be nerfed?
Please remind me where exactly I whined about kill mails being nerfed. I dont seem to see it in this post or any other post ive ever made.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Hey, dont be angry :p
What I mean is that in some cases (/me looks at some BoB pilots), the eagerness to get on the killmail is clouding better judgement.
I'm glad that this change undoes some of that by simply making killboard ranking less valid.
I know, some people really live for it, but tbh, I'm getting pretty damn annoyed by the killmail-focused play these days.
Just my opinion, no need to get angry over it.
Im with you on this. People get overawed by kill mails and fail to work as a team.
Its not really about not being on the mail. Its the interest to see what was fitted.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.12.09 22:32:00 -
[12]
That's darwinism in Eve, Rod.
I don't personally have a problem with it.
I do have problems with truncated evemails which could cause issues, besides killboards. For example, 21 pilots shoot me. 20 -10, and 1 +10. The +10 didn't do much damage, and isn't on the mail. He denies he did it. Oops, proof?
Making killboards less valid will also lead, bluntly, to more whining and name calling on the forums and in-game. I DON'T see how that helps - quite the opposite.
I find NERFS to the UI and supporting features like this which will cause a lot of grief to some players annoying, and part of the general issue with the poor UI of Eve.
I would now, bluntly, like a CCP-made killboard in the wake of this change. Something I wasn't in support of before.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.12.09 22:34:00 -
[13]
Rells, does
"Do you PvP for a reason or just to find some part of your anatomy to measure against someone else?
look familiar. Because it's up this thread. So, want to deny it again?
Originally by: Rells
Im with you on this. People get overawed by kill mails and fail to work as a team.
How is this a problem? It's quite the opposite. PLAYER SKILL.
And, bluntly, people WILL get angry about being left off killmails. Especially the small ship pilots. It's another huge slap directly in our faces.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Azuriel Talloth
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Posted - 2005.12.09 22:47:00 -
[14]
What a crappy change.
________________
"Pain is an illusion of the flesh. Despair is an illusion of the mind." |
TFer Atvar
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Posted - 2005.12.09 22:53:00 -
[15]
CCP, if this is true, I'd suggest some creative editing of Killmails to maximize that 3,500 characters. While that might be enough for standard 1v1 fights between cruisers and the like, it certainly won't be enough if someone kills a freighter full of assorted goods or if someone's fighting in a fleet action, and multiple people hit the killed ship.
Therefore, I'd suggest several editing measures to trim character counts.
1. Remove corporation names from killmails. Since you have names, you can look them up if, by chance, you're in a massive alliance fleet battle and don't know who you've killed. That's about the only circumstance I can think of when you might need to know the corp.
2. Remove high/mid/low slot distinction. If you're reading a killmail, you're experienced to know that a Heavy Neutron Blaster I doesn't go in a low slot. Keep the Fitted/Cargo distinction, but there's no reason to have that high/mid/low designation.
3. Remove the quantity line in destroyed items. Replace it with a number in parentheses before the item name. That will replace a 13 character line with four characters on the same line as existing text.
4. Eliminate whitespace. Currently, there's a blank line between each destroyed item. I suggest combining cargo and fitted items into paragraphs that don't have whitespace between them. You'd have a single blank line between the list of destroyed cargo and destroyed fitted items, but that's it. For longer killmails, you could save 20+ characters.
All these are pretty simple changes, and on their own don't change that much, but in longer mails, they might combined enable another killer to be inserted into the mail. I, for one, want to keep the list of destroyed items, and hopefully through a little creative editing, it might be possible to do so.
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Aitrus
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Posted - 2005.12.09 22:59:00 -
[16]
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you think that kill-counts are important, then you've missed the point of this game. Kill mails were a bad idea in the first place, and kill-boards are even worse.
In Eve, kills != success
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Selena 001
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Posted - 2005.12.09 22:59:00 -
[17]
If you can fill a killamil with more than 3500 letters then you dont deserve one... cause that means you've ganked some poor bastard with 10 ships... 
(10 is just a made up number... I have better things to be doing than working out just how many ships you need to fill a killmail)
___________
Dont mind me, I'm Forum-Whoring cause I dont have anything better to do with my life... |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.12.09 23:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Selena 001
If you can fill a killamil with more than 3500 letters then you dont deserve one... cause that means you've ganked some poor bastard with 10 ships...
(10 is just a made up number... I have better things to be doing than working out just how many ships you need to fill a killmail)
Fleet fights?
And yes, I LOVE to see peoples setups. It's either a good lesson or a good giggle.
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Saeris Tal'Urduar
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Posted - 2005.12.09 23:02:00 -
[19]
Thats gonna suck for an alliance that pays it Pvpr's based on kills, like ASCN.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.12.09 23:10:00 -
[20]
And mercs
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Jezala
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Posted - 2005.12.09 23:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Aitrus
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you think that kill-counts are important, then you've missed the point of this game. Kill mails were a bad idea in the first place, and kill-boards are even worse.
In Eve, kills != success
But inflicting economic loss = success
and right now kill mails do a good job of allowing the victor to guage how much economic damage has been inflicted upon the victim.
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Aitrus
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Posted - 2005.12.09 23:25:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jezala
Originally by: Aitrus
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you think that kill-counts are important, then you've missed the point of this game. Kill mails were a bad idea in the first place, and kill-boards are even worse.
In Eve, kills != success
But inflicting economic loss = success
and right now kill mails do a good job of allowing the victor to guage how much economic damage has been inflicted upon the victim.
But kills do not always equate to significant economic loss. Especially if your opponent has a solid industrial/economic backbone. Disrupting that is much more effective than killing a bunch of insured ships.
killing lots of stuff won't win you a war. Killing the RIGHT stuff will. People obsessed with killboards tend to forget this rather important difference.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.12.09 23:33:00 -
[23]
Fact remains, killmails are useful tools. They're being nerfed.
This is not good.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2005.12.09 23:34:00 -
[24]
I enjoy killboards. Good to learn something about fittings. I'll miss it. 
___________
'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
Rendill
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Posted - 2005.12.09 23:40:00 -
[25]
In-game automatic killboards and rankings in Kali render this argument moot.
CEO |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.12.09 23:54:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Rendill
In-game automatic killboards and rankings in Kali render this argument moot.
Does this look like Kali to you? Looks like RMR to me.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
dantes inferno
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Posted - 2005.12.09 23:57:00 -
[27]
Quote:
In-game automatic killboards and rankings in Kali render this argument moot.
Kali is a long way of so in the interim the argument is far from moot.
_____
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Kage Getsu
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Posted - 2005.12.10 00:24:00 -
[28]
An official killboard would be hot. It would solve a lot of the bickering and arguing over who killed who.
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Wanoah
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Posted - 2005.12.10 00:49:00 -
[29]
Removing the items destroyed part of killmails will just about remove the only point of killboards as a useful tool. They will become the straightforward e-peen measurement tool they have always threatened to be. Using killboards as a source of intelligence on your enemies' fittings etc was about the only saving grace of the things. Without that, they will just be automatic forum smack and locked thread generators.
So, I'm generally hoping that there are some alternatives to removing the useful details from the killmails. I don't personally need to know whether I've been killed or I've killed someone - me or them sitting in a pod usually gives me a pretty big clue, but I do like to know what they used to kill me, and what they had on their ship when I killed them.
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Evil Edna
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Posted - 2005.12.10 02:03:00 -
[30]
gonna suck for blobbers and mass gankers then isnt it lolz not all getting on the mail
you know who you are 
Killboard.co.uk
In game channel kr0m-public |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.10 02:03:00 -
[31]
"In-game automatic killboards and rankings in Kali render this argument moot."
There's going to be ELO-based ranking for players in Kali. Who ever said it'll be actually accompanied by official list of players sorted by these rankings, or official killboard?
It might be as simple as "ranking: xxxx" under your character name on the "show info" panel, with no in-game means to compare it with anyone else, other than by hand.
(as far as original subject goes: gonna miss the ability to have peek at setups people use. or finding out what nice cargo blew up along with the ship :/
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.12.10 02:19:00 -
[32]
ah well modules require scanning modules to note setups so in that way good i guess - economic damage well just kill em more often to hurt em - best way to watch is when they start fielding inferior ships with cheaper modules
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Prothos
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Posted - 2005.12.10 03:54:00 -
[33]
Down side to no modules listed, is i now have to check the can manually if my ship gets blown up by rats in belts or missions. it was nice to check the mail and see if anything worth going back after was left.
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Gouglash
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Posted - 2005.12.10 04:14:00 -
[34]
Terrible change.
It's very nice to pop a plump hauler and see thousands of megacyte or zydrine fall out, or to kill a BS in full faction setup.
Being able to see the killmail provides all kinds of fun. You can see the financial cost on the player you killed. You can laugh at their terrible setups. You can point out the best ones with your corp and alliance mates.
Or, you can load up all the free space in your cargo hold with 120 separate piles of exotic dancers, livestock and spiced wine, and hope your killers get a chuckle out of it.
Taking this out is lame, I think it is a bad change. 
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Vishnej
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Posted - 2005.12.10 05:41:00 -
[35]
This is stupid and should be fixed. Simply extend the limit.
Same as the copy size limitations.
----------------------------
T2 Destroyers: a proposal
Requested Changes: An alphabet's worth |
danneh
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Posted - 2005.12.10 06:10:00 -
[36]
    
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Dakath
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Posted - 2005.12.10 16:55:00 -
[37]
Oh Noooesss! 
Pity the poor griefers. Their e-peenage just got nerfed! 
Solo playing is a valid play style. Or at least CCP thinks the money they get is valid. |
rig0r
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Posted - 2005.12.10 18:20:00 -
[38]
This is a baaaad change. Why the limit anyway ? I'd like to know what exactly the problem is CCP is facing.
Increase the messagesize limit, or if that is truly not possible, optimize the mails. Make them downloadable out-of-game if you must. Anything is better than nerfing them like this.
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Seleene
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Posted - 2005.12.10 18:24:00 -
[39]
1.) WHY?
2.) If this is going to be "fixed" in Kali, then leave it the hell alone until Kali!
-
The REAL Eve Political Map! |
Ian Logalus
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Posted - 2005.12.10 18:27:00 -
[40]
WTF keep the old mails like they are now. If you can't nerv enough ships ingame you take it to the killmails? please let them how they are :) kkthxbye
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Blacklight
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Posted - 2005.12.10 18:28:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Blacklight on 10/12/2005 18:28:47
I know there are all sorts of arguements about the negative behaviours killboards can create and the whole issue of e-peen measurement is central to those arguements.
However, there are some real positive benefits to killboards.
Maintaining a killboard is very important to me to help with the running of a PvP corp of our size. We use ours for a variety of things including;-
- gathering information about what the enemy is fitting so we can counter it
- gathering information about what our own pilots are fitting to make sure they are being effective
- monitoring the type of ships we lose and the frequency of loss so we can plan our industrial capacity to keep pace
- monitoring the balance of ship types in gangs to ensure we're effective
- monitoring participation levels to help determine who is active/contributing and who is not
- monitoring effectiveness to make sure our pilots are as good as they claim they are
etc etc...
I'll happily manage people's e-peen measuring in house by slapping people who fit too many sensor boosters etc.. Managing all the other things I can do through using the killboard data would be significantly harder without a killboard.
I need more data and more consistency of data on killmails not less and it is quite seriously not about seeing who has the biggest e-peen.
Eve Blacklight Style
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Malken
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Posted - 2005.12.10 18:29:00 -
[42]
or stop sending out any mail at all and just register the kills on a database and make a official CCP killboard.
no more yapping about fake mails and **** since the mails would come straight off the game server.
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Adipocere
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Posted - 2005.12.10 18:47:00 -
[43]
I'm curious what the new killmails will look like, but don't see the point in whining in circles without any real idea what the impact is going to be.
How many characters does the "average" killmail have now (say, if you were to average a thousand of them)?
If you strip the most glaring dead space?
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Qwynn
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Posted - 2005.12.10 19:05:00 -
[44]
If it aint broke dont fix it. I never had a problem with killmail size even with a whole fleet load of people on it.
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boulette
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Posted - 2005.12.10 19:09:00 -
[45]
WHAT NOOOOOO?!
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.12.10 19:10:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Dakath
Oh Noooesss!
Pity the poor griefers. Their e-peenage just got nerfed!
You normally have something constructive to add.
I dont **** on your playstyle, try not to do it to others?
It's not about griefing, its about PvP. Theres a massive difference and you know it.
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rig0r
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Posted - 2005.12.10 20:30:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Adipocere
I'm curious what the new killmails will look like, but don't see the point in whining in circles without any real idea what the impact is going to be.
How many characters does the "average" killmail have now (say, if you were to average a thousand of them)?
If you strip the most glaring dead space?
The problem is more about the destroyed items than the persons involved. Ship setup/items destroyed is the most interesting part of a killmail.
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.12.10 20:42:00 -
[48]
Yes, the killmail provides valueable intel on how the opponent fights.
As of the end of this sentence, I have 3809 characters left out of my 4000, and the spacing will make that 3807.
2005.11.22 19:12:00
Victim: Eejitt Guy
Alliance: Unknown
Corporation: Mentally Unstable Enterprises
Destroyed Type: Crow
Solar System: Esesier
System Security Level: 0.3
Involved parties:
Name: Unknown01 (laid the final blow)
Security Status: 0.4
Alliance: Unknown
Corporation: Terran Robotics
Ship Type: Rupture
Weapon Type: 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon I
Name: Unknown#02
Security Status: -1.5
Alliance: Unknown
Corporation: Terran Robotics
Ship Type: Merlin
Weapon Type: Standard Missile Launcher I
Destroyed items:
Type: Bloodclaw Light Missile I (Cargo)
Quantity: 159
Type: Sabretooth Light Missile I (Cargo)
Quantity: 297
Type: Power Diagnostic System I (Fitted - Low slot)
Type: 1MN MicroWarpdrive II (Fitted - Medium slot)
Type: 'Malkuth' Standard Missile Launcher I (Fitted - High slot)
Type: Fleeting Warp Scrambler I (Fitted - Medium slot)
Type: Bloodclaw Light Missile I (Fitted - High slot)
Quantity: 14
As of the end of that killmail, I still had 2748 characters left. It would have to be one hell of a killmail to hit 3800 characters...roughly 20+ parties and a full cargo hold of equipment destroyed.
-----------------------------------------------
This post brought to you by the letter YARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR |
Amthrianius
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Posted - 2005.12.10 20:49:00 -
[49]
you dont get it, they have REMOVED ITEMS DESTROYED from kill mails full stop.
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Samurai Pumpkin
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Posted - 2005.12.10 20:50:00 -
[50]
/vote Crappy change
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Bazman
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Posted - 2005.12.10 21:02:00 -
[51]
Aww. Its not fair, i like to see destroyed modules, lets you piece together their setups so you can laugh/awe at thier setup
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Soros
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Posted - 2005.12.11 11:36:00 -
[52]
I like destroyed items :(
-= Soros =-
C6
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babyblue
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Posted - 2005.12.11 11:52:00 -
[53]
I was thinking about why this change was neccessary and it occurred to me that your kill mail limit was probably 7-8,000 at first in any case. Why? Because thats the character limit in SQL server for a string field. If you want to go higher than that, you need to use a blob field, and those are inefficient and hard to reason with in code. So, because you are going to Unicode, where you have 2 bytes = 1 character, you need to halve this limit to around 4,000 (say 3,500 to leave 500 characters to play with for other stuff).
Totally understand this thing. Now you can implement a way around it (have two or more rows and concatenate the strings as you go), but I doubt it would be something you'd call a priority.
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rig0r
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Posted - 2005.12.11 12:05:00 -
[54]
What's the point of using unicode for killmails anyway ?
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babyblue
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Posted - 2005.12.11 12:49:00 -
[55]
Originally by: rig0r
What's the point of using unicode for killmails anyway ?
Well, Eve is now a Unicode client, due to the need for support of other language/locales.
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.12.11 13:35:00 -
[56]
Originally by: rig0r
What's the point of using unicode for killmails anyway ?
Like certain other things its prolly being nerfed to function in the asian client.
------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Blitz Hacker
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Posted - 2005.12.11 14:12:00 -
[57]
My only gripe is it will make us have to change the kill boards.. again. If it's not broke don't fix it. 1 killmail; or 10 drones won't lag the game. the 30,000 bookmarks I just copied and the 500 containers I just passed that have been there forgotten about for the past 2 years will.
-Blitz-
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.12.11 14:15:00 -
[58]
This is stupid.
-
Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2005.12.11 14:48:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 11/12/2005 14:48:42
Whine Whine Whine Whine Whine.
GJ Dreadnaught, show everyone what you're made of.
Anyways, I doubt CCP will keep this change seeing as it's idiotic and whatnot, don't see any need for a forum thread about it.
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Tenebrion
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Posted - 2005.12.11 16:07:00 -
[60]
In my humble opinion, they should be working on improving killmails with more statistics and generally making them able to contain more characters or split up the mail so when it is to large you get two or more mails.
I just like to know what ship I killed, who piloted it, what modules he had fitted, and all that stuff. I know that a lot of people are killmail addicts and they just gank to get killmails, but hey, I just accept that and live with it, everything good had a bad side to, doesn't it?
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Hexxx
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Posted - 2005.12.11 16:45:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Hexxx on 11/12/2005 16:45:48
Quote:
"Medals & Awards
External display of your accomplishments is a large part of many MMO's, the "level" ladder being the most prominent case of such display of achievement but more associated with the grind of course. For EVE, Medals & Awards is a general tool to hook something visible to an event, which is either just for show or gives some sort of benefit. As such, these should simply be "implants" which you can't remove (except by the game). This would be highly used by War Victory Conditions and Factional Warfare to name a few but also tied into ECR. This would complement fully the character creation overhaul, allowing the schools/ancestries to be a "medal" which can then be changed by going to school again. Advanced shools and training would also be possible, like through high level agents etc."
Maybe they want to move to a better system than kill mails. Maybe Medals and what not for player Wars?
Geez, everyone is always about "now, now, NOW", start thinking long term here. Help develop a better system. Be constructive. Make suggestions on how to make it better.
I'd suggest working on the spelling and grammar in general as well but let's take things one step at a time.
edit: Semantic error corrected.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.12.11 16:46:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Hexxx
Quote:
"Medals & Awards
External display of your accomplishments is a large part of many MMO's, the "level" ladder being the most prominent case of such display of achievement but more associated with the grind of course. For EVE, Medals & Awards is a general tool to hook something visible to an event, which is either just for show or gives some sort of benefit. As such, these should simply be "implants" which you can't remove (except by the game). This would be highly used by War Victory Conditions and Factional Warfare to name a few but also tied into ECR. This would complement fully the character creation overhaul, allowing the schools/ancestries to be a "medal" which can then be changed by going to school again. Advanced shools and training would also be possible, like through high level agents etc."
Maybe they want to move to a better system than kill mails. Maybe Medals and what not for player Wars?
Geez, everyone is always about "now, now, NOW", start thinking long term here. Help develop a better system. Be constructive. Make suggestions on to make it better.
I'd suggest working on the spelling and grammar in general as well but let's take things one step at a time.
Its a nice idea, but eliminating the ability to see what the enemy lost when you killed him is a bit silly.
-
Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Hexxx
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Posted - 2005.12.11 16:47:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Hexxx
Quote:
"Medals & Awards
External display of your accomplishments is a large part of many MMO's, the "level" ladder being the most prominent case of such display of achievement but more associated with the grind of course. For EVE, Medals & Awards is a general tool to hook something visible to an event, which is either just for show or gives some sort of benefit. As such, these should simply be "implants" which you can't remove (except by the game). This would be highly used by War Victory Conditions and Factional Warfare to name a few but also tied into ECR. This would complement fully the character creation overhaul, allowing the schools/ancestries to be a "medal" which can then be changed by going to school again. Advanced shools and training would also be possible, like through high level agents etc."
Maybe they want to move to a better system than kill mails. Maybe Medals and what not for player Wars?
Geez, everyone is always about "now, now, NOW", start thinking long term here. Help develop a better system. Be constructive. Make suggestions on to make it better.
I'd suggest working on the spelling and grammar in general as well but let's take things one step at a time.
Its a nice idea, but eliminating the ability to see what the enemy lost when you killed him is a bit silly.
So have that included in the new "system" maybe. Instead of kill mails why not a record and log for each ship destruction event? How about the kind of formatted detail found in the wallet for journal entires? Comon! 
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.12.11 16:49:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Hexxx
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Hexxx
Quote:
"Medals & Awards
External display of your accomplishments is a large part of many MMO's, the "level" ladder being the most prominent case of such display of achievement but more associated with the grind of course. For EVE, Medals & Awards is a general tool to hook something visible to an event, which is either just for show or gives some sort of benefit. As such, these should simply be "implants" which you can't remove (except by the game). This would be highly used by War Victory Conditions and Factional Warfare to name a few but also tied into ECR. This would complement fully the character creation overhaul, allowing the schools/ancestries to be a "medal" which can then be changed by going to school again. Advanced shools and training would also be possible, like through high level agents etc."
Maybe they want to move to a better system than kill mails. Maybe Medals and what not for player Wars?
Geez, everyone is always about "now, now, NOW", start thinking long term here. Help develop a better system. Be constructive. Make suggestions on to make it better.
I'd suggest working on the spelling and grammar in general as well but let's take things one step at a time.
Its a nice idea, but eliminating the ability to see what the enemy lost when you killed him is a bit silly.
So have that included in the new "system" maybe. Instead of kill mails why not a record and log for each ship destruction event? How about the kind of formatted detail found in the wallet for journal entires? Comon!
That would be utterly sweet.
-
Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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rig0r
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Posted - 2005.12.11 16:56:00 -
[65]
The medal and ranking stuff is all good and well, but we will be well into 2006 when that gets into the game (if it does at all).
So, that's not an excuse for this killmail nerf.
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Seleene
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Posted - 2005.12.11 17:47:00 -
[66]
LEAVE. IT. ALONE!
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The REAL Eve Political Map! |
BloodSpoon
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Posted - 2005.12.11 17:53:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Seleene
LEAVE. IT. ALONE!
/signed
"ooooohh theres nothing wrong with killer robots from venus" |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.12.11 18:41:00 -
[68]
Originally by: babyblue
Originally by: rig0r
What's the point of using unicode for killmails anyway ?
Well, Eve is now a Unicode client, due to the need for support of other language/locales.
So we should be able to drop our OWN fonts in.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
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Oveur
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Posted - 2005.12.11 19:11:00 -
[69]
Don't worry. The change decreases the killmail from 5000 to 3500 characters, but instead we're probably going to cut out some needless repeated stuff (less verbose) or send longer killmails as multiples mails.
That is of course, until this will simply all be part of a seperate and new logging system, which is much more efficient and doesn't rely on evemails.
ps. This decrease applies to all mails by the looks of it, the killmails are simply the most common thing that uses so many characters.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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Righteous Fury
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Posted - 2005.12.11 20:59:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Righteous Fury on 11/12/2005 21:02:47
double post
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Righteous Fury
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Posted - 2005.12.11 21:03:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Oveur
Don't worry. The change decreases the killmail from 5000 to 3500 characters, but instead we're probably going to cut out some needless repeated stuff (less verbose) or send longer killmails as multiples mails.
For the sake of everyone who runs a killboard Oveur, please don't change the formatting of killmails too radically. Every time a killmail is changed, dozens of killboard maintainers have to rewrite their code to acommodate both new and old mails. I haven't had much of a gripe with the past mail changes because adding stuff like alliance's was useful.
If you're going to change it, at the current time multiple mails would be much easier for the playerbase than rewriting the entire killmail system.
edit: The changing of the mail system into automatically splitting up large mails would be very useful, for example I've lost count of the number of times that I've gone off on a rant in alliance mail, only to be stopped mid-sentence when I hit the character limit.
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.12.11 21:10:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Oveur
Don't worry. The change decreases the killmail from 5000 to 3500 characters, but instead we're probably going to cut out some needless repeated stuff (less verbose) or send longer killmails as multiples mails.
That is of course, until this will simply all be part of a seperate and new logging system, which is much more efficient and doesn't rely on evemails.
ps. This decrease applies to all mails by the looks of it, the killmails are simply the most common thing that uses so many characters.
First thing you can cut out is the security stati, the killer's security status isn't exactly killmail material (whoever is interested enough will just get the latest sec status from in game) and the system status can be removed as well (most self-respecting boards have a database registering each system and accompanying stats for it, many can even generate maps of custom systems...)
Also a new format for the following:
Type: Wrath Cruise Missile I (Cargo)
Quantity: 233
Could be worked out such as simply:
233: Wrath Cruise Missile I (Cargo)
This example would save 15 characters per item.
Ar+es
n. Greek Mythology
- The god of war.
v. Eve online
- Expensive and useless |
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Oveur
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Posted - 2005.12.11 21:31:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Oveur
Don't worry. The change decreases the killmail from 5000 to 3500 characters, but instead we're probably going to cut out some needless repeated stuff (less verbose) or send longer killmails as multiples mails.
That is of course, until this will simply all be part of a seperate and new logging system, which is much more efficient and doesn't rely on evemails.
ps. This decrease applies to all mails by the looks of it, the killmails are simply the most common thing that uses so many characters.
First thing you can cut out is the security stati, the killer's security status isn't exactly killmail material (whoever is interested enough will just get the latest sec status from in game) and the system status can be removed as well (most self-respecting boards have a database registering each system and accompanying stats for it, many can even generate maps of custom systems...)
Also a new format for the following:
Type: Wrath Cruise Missile I (Cargo)
Quantity: 233
Could be worked out such as simply:
233: Wrath Cruise Missile I (Cargo)
This example would save 15 characters per item.
Yes, exactly, less verbose. Also called "cutting out needless repeated stuff" :)
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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BloodSpoon
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Posted - 2005.12.11 21:37:00 -
[74]
why not just call it cutting the fat?....like that showtime rotissorie does...jsut set-it and forget-it!
"ooooohh theres nothing wrong with killer robots from venus" |
Darmed Khan
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Posted - 2005.12.11 21:48:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Darmed Khan on 11/12/2005 21:47:54
Originally by: Oveur
ps. This decrease applies to all mails by the looks of it, the killmails are simply the most common thing that uses so many characters.
That's because for the last year or so we've only been allowed to send evemails up to 1000 characters in length
However I've just checked on the test server, and it is indeed true that we can send long evemails, certainly up to 3k characters. I'd give an exact figure, but mails that are too long seem to get eaten by the system without a warning
*goes to prepare bug report*
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Svett
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Posted - 2005.12.12 00:05:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Amthrianius
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Rells
Kill mails are a hack. If you want to track kill standings then CCP should just make an official kill board and not futz around with generated mails.
Personally I couldnt care less about them.
Then why did you whine that they should be nerfed?
Please remind me where exactly I whined about kill mails being nerfed. I dont seem to see it in this post or any other post ive ever made.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Hey, dont be angry :p
What I mean is that in some cases (/me looks at some BoB pilots), the eagerness to get on the killmail is clouding better judgement.
I'm glad that this change undoes some of that by simply making killboard ranking less valid.
I know, some people really live for it, but tbh, I'm getting pretty damn annoyed by the killmail-focused play these days.
Just my opinion, no need to get angry over it.
Im with you on this. People get overawed by kill mails and fail to work as a team.
Its not really about not being on the mail. Its the interest to see what was fitted.
you just wana see how many stabs a crow can fit
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.12.12 00:08:00 -
[77]
Multiple mails
Melikes.
-
Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Fire Stone
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Posted - 2005.12.12 00:10:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Oveur
That is of course, until this will simply all be part of a seperate and new logging system, which is much more efficient and doesn't rely on evemails.
Most interesting part highlighted....
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Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2005.12.12 06:31:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Saeris Tal'Urduar
Thats gonna suck for an alliance that pays it Pvpr's based on kills, like ASCN.
Then they should use the game mechanics, and pay it PVPr's based on the corpses. And yes, I know that due to instawarp of a pod it's harder to get the corpse, but..
ElSmS on..
P.S. Kill mails = bad.
---
Home, sweet home. |
Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2005.12.12 06:41:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Oveur
Don't worry. The change decreases the killmail from 5000 to 3500 characters, but instead we're probably going to cut out some needless repeated stuff (less verbose) or send longer killmails as multiples mails.
That is of course, until this will simply all be part of a seperate and new logging system, which is much more efficient and doesn't rely on evemails.
ps. This decrease applies to all mails by the looks of it, the killmails are simply the most common thing that uses so many characters.
First thing you can cut out is the security stati, the killer's security status isn't exactly killmail material (whoever is interested enough will just get the latest sec status from in game) and the system status can be removed as well (most self-respecting boards have a database registering each system and accompanying stats for it, many can even generate maps of custom systems...)
Also a new format for the following:
Type: Wrath Cruise Missile I (Cargo)
Quantity: 233
Could be worked out such as simply:
233: Wrath Cruise Missile I (Cargo)
This example would save 15 characters per item.
Yes, exactly, less verbose. Also called "cutting out needless repeated stuff" :)
233;203;0
(233 units, of itemcode 203, equiped as type 0 (cargo))
Would that be simpler. It has the same volume of information, but readability kind of sucks.
Even tho I do not like the idea of kill mails at all, the thing is that when such a mail is send to someone who likes to see the mail, but who has no intention of using a "killboard".. Then the "233: Wrath Cruise Missile I (Cargo)" makes him wonder what this might be.
More verbose aproach makes the human reader comprehend what is/has happened, the killboard doesn't care since the parser logic is coded in the program (by someone who understood).
---
Home, sweet home. |
Psych0
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Posted - 2005.12.12 08:17:00 -
[81]
Here is a wild idea scrap kill mails 100% instead make a new system..
Introduce a new corp role.. Corp Secretary.(What ever)
And make Kill Papers(ingame item) that ppl can request from a concord agent. ppl with the corp role can pick up papers for all ppl in the intire corp. These kill papers should be copyable so you can give proof of a kill to employee(if youre an assasin). And then the Paper ofc has the kill info. It wont create lag during fight bc it isnt automatic send to ppl. Perhaps even wait with generating the papers until DT.
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.12.12 09:20:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Oveur
Yes, exactly, less verbose. Also called "cutting out needless repeated stuff" :)
If "cutting out needless repeated stuff" is CCP's idea of "less verbose", then maybe the character limit will need to be increased afterwards?
______________________________________________
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Selic
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Posted - 2005.12.12 11:02:00 -
[83]
Could someone send me an evemail with some urls for these killboards? (I'm not sure if posting them here is allowed) I would love to see how everyone is fitting their ships for combat and how they fared. :)
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rig0r
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Posted - 2005.12.12 11:30:00 -
[84]
Edited by: rig0r on 12/12/2005 11:30:29
Originally by: Selic
Could someone send me an evemail with some urls for these killboards? (I'm not sure if posting them here is allowed) I would love to see how everyone is fitting their ships for combat and how they fared. :)
Linkage
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Sable Moran
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Posted - 2005.12.12 16:26:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
It's not about griefing, its about PvP. Theres a massive difference and you know it.
It's not about PvP, its about ***** measurement. Theres (sic) a massive difference and you know it.
-----
Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene 5, Moon 4, Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Ammo at affordable prices. |
Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.12.12 16:37:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Sable Moran
Originally by: Deja Thoris
It's not about griefing, its about PvP. Theres a massive difference and you know it.
It's not about PvP, its about ***** measurement. Theres (sic) a massive difference and you know it.
Yup. The only thing that matters is who flies out of a battle and who doesn't. Killmails, killboards and "my Big ******* Gun strikes cardboard box for 91,200 damage" bios/sigs are only the crutch of the "Counterstrike in Space" crowd.
You don't "keep score" in a war.
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Somatic Neuron
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Posted - 2005.12.12 16:53:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Oveur
That is of course, until this will simply all be part of a seperate and new logging system, which is much more efficient and doesn't rely on evemails.
I am hoping that it is something like this..
Killmail Proposal:
Killmails should be sent to a kill log file (much like the game log is recorded now). The ability to turn killmail logging on and off, plus a simple XML storage format and an external reader would be nice. For instance:
<killmail>
<killmailID>1234567890</killmailID>
<datetime>12/15/2005 14:05:37</datetime>
<system>30000142</system>
<victim>
<characterID>472235806</characterID>
<corporation>0000128753</corporation>
<alliance>0000000289</alliance>
<shiptype>17738</shiptype>
<items>
<item fitted="1" quantity="1">14696</item>
<item fitted="1" quantity="1">14706</item>
<item fitted="1" quantity="4">18068</item>
<item fitted="1" quantity="3">18608</item>
<item fitted="1" quantity="2">2032</item>
<item fitted="0" quantity="30">11396</item>
</items>
</victim>
<attackers>
<attacker>
<characterID>846463377</characterID>
<corporation>0000128732</corporation>
<alliance></alliance>
<shiptype>606</shiptype>
<weapontype>3638</weapontype>
<finalblow>1</finalblow>
</attacker>
</attackers>
</killmail>
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Hexxx
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Posted - 2005.12.12 16:56:00 -
[88]
Sigh...
Anyhow, the kill "mails" should, in a perfect world, be abolished.
Keep reading please. I know the first reflex is to hit post and not read the entire thing.
Mailing the information makes it difficult to sort through, creating the need for killboards. A better system, akin to the functions and organization of the wallet with general ledger entries, would be a much better solution. Combining this with the eventual integration of awards and medals would make it an even better system for all parties involved.
At the moment, the Devs are addressing a mail issue from what I understand. A brief period of transition will follow as they adjust the current systems to the new limitations/restrictions. Perhaps surviving for a few weeks without your kill mails is the closet thing to getting stabbed in the eye, for the rest of us, we'll likely apply a bit of patience and suggest improvements.
After all, they do have to change the format. Why not give them input on that? I don't see them lifting the changes to the mail system as the reason it was changed addresses a rather global issue (unicode).
Saying much else is really just a waste of your time.
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Hexxx
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Posted - 2005.12.12 16:57:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Somatic Neuron
Originally by: Oveur
That is of course, until this will simply all be part of a seperate and new logging system, which is much more efficient and doesn't rely on evemails.
I am hoping that it is something like this..
Killmail Proposal:
Killmails should be sent to a kill log file (much like the game log is recorded now). The ability to turn killmail logging on and off, plus a simple XML storage format and an external reader would be nice. For instance:
<killmail>
<killmailID>1234567890</killmailID>
<datetime>12/15/2005 14:05:37</datetime>
<system>30000142</system>
<victim>
<characterID>472235806</characterID>
<corporation>0000128753</corporation>
<alliance>0000000289</alliance>
<shiptype>17738</shiptype>
<items>
<item fitted="1" quantity="1">14696</item>
<item fitted="1" quantity="1">14706</item>
<item fitted="1" quantity="4">18068</item>
<item fitted="1" quantity="3">18608</item>
<item fitted="1" quantity="2">2032</item>
<item fitted="0" quantity="30">11396</item>
</items>
</victim>
<attackers>
<attacker>
<characterID>846463377</characterID>
<corporation>0000128732</corporation>
<alliance></alliance>
<shiptype>606</shiptype>
<weapontype>3638</weapontype>
<finalblow>1</finalblow>
</attacker>
</attackers>
</killmail>
Excellent suggestion. 
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.12.12 17:08:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Farjung
It's nice to know why one party flew out of the battle and the other didn't though. Destroyed items reveal a large part of this.
Ok, I'll grant you that. And yes, I'll admit a certain amount of strategic "keeping score" makes a lot of sense.
I guess I'm just railing against the "I'll kill him so I'll get another killmail I can post on our alliance killboard!" mentality I see all too much of these days.
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Somatic Neuron
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Posted - 2005.12.12 19:22:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Farjung
It's nice to know why one party flew out of the battle and the other didn't though. Destroyed items reveal a large part of this.
Ok, I'll grant you that. And yes, I'll admit a certain amount of strategic "keeping score" makes a lot of sense.
I guess I'm just railing against the "I'll kill him so I'll get another killmail I can post on our alliance killboard!" mentality I see all too much of these days.
When I kill someone, it's because he is someone that my corp has deemed "hostile", not to just get on a killmail. The killmails are nice to be able to show "proof" of what you have killed, and what kind of financial impact you had on that "hostile" pilot/corp/alliance. In direct relation to that need to show what kind of financial impact you are having, items that were dropped should be listed on the killmail too, as that counts toward the financial loss too...just as showing implant losses on the podkills would show financial loss as well. Because, in the end, the goal is to make it so unprofitable to continue hostile activities, that the "hostile" corp/alliance surrenders or otherwise ends the activities that made it necessary for them to be considered "hostile"...as you can't really destroy any corp or alliance any other way. Killmails, used in this fashion, help gauge where you stand in that struggle.
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Crzycnck2
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Posted - 2005.12.12 19:32:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Rells
Kill mails are a hack. If you want to track kill standings then CCP should just make an official kill board and not futz around with generated mails.
Personally I couldnt care less about them.
Then Why did you even post. And CCP building and maintaining a KB is easier?? Think before you post FFS.
Now for my rant:
What is the purpose of limiting the char. count?? To reduce the amount server resources required to generate these? This makes no sense and is completely ridiculous. ItĘs nice to know who is on the killmail and what your enemy lost not too mention if you loose your ship who killed you and what you lost compared to what may have been taken/stolen from your can.
CCP you guys make some stupid changes with each patch.
Battle Angels Gather,
They Warp In,
Guns Engage,
Ships Die.
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In'Nala
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Posted - 2005.12.13 03:49:00 -
[93]
Personally I like the change. Not because of any killboards-related reason, but because I thought it was weird/unrealistic that the killer would be recieving these magical messages with a list of all the destroyed items.
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Hexxx
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Posted - 2005.12.13 20:22:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Crzycnck2
Originally by: Rells
Kill mails are a hack. If you want to track kill standings then CCP should just make an official kill board and not futz around with generated mails.
Personally I couldnt care less about them.
Then Why did you even post. And CCP building and maintaining a KB is easier?? Think before you post FFS.
Now for my rant:
What is the purpose of limiting the char. count?? To reduce the amount server resources required to generate these? This makes no sense and is completely ridiculous. ItĘs nice to know who is on the killmail and what your enemy lost not too mention if you loose your ship who killed you and what you lost compared to what may have been taken/stolen from your can.
CCP you guys make some stupid changes with each patch.
"Completely ridiculous" is you having no idea what you're talking about. Short technical lesson to follow.
ASCII(American Standard Code for Information Interchange
) defines codes for 33 non-printing control characters and 95 printable characters.
Unicode is an industry standard whose goal is to provide the means by which text of all forms and languages can be encoded for use by computers.
The establishment of Unicode has involved an ambitious project to replace existing character encoding schemes, many of which are very limited in size and incompatible with multilingual environments. Unicode has become the largest and most complete character encoding scheme, serving as the dominant such method in the internationalization and localization of computer software.
There are roughly 90,000 characters defined in the official technical OSI.
It covers multiple languages and characters (including non-western) of said languages. You'll find 33 languages listed for the main coverage area of Uni-Code. Including Chinese (hint, hint)
Now, these are a significant increase in regards to server storage of thousands of killmails chipping away at bandwidth and general systems/queries.
And you think these are stupid changes?
I believe this is what they call "getting schooled".
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rig0r
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Posted - 2005.12.15 11:28:00 -
[95]
Quote:
2005.12.15 11:20
Victim: rig0r
Alliance: Mercenary Coalition
Corp: Battle Angels Inc
Destroyed: Brutix
System: PF-346
Security: 0.0
Involved parties:
Name: HellsRazor (laid the final blow)
Security: 3.3
Alliance: Stain- Alliance
Corp: Interstellar eXodus
Ship: Raven
Weapon: Mjolnir Torpedo
Name: Mythical Warrior
Security: 2.6
Alliance: Tribal Souls
Corp: ANZAC ALLIANCE
Ship: Capsule
Weapon: Apocalypse
Destroyed items:
Heavy Ion Blaster II
Medium Armor Repairer II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Inhibitor I
Heavy Ion Blaster II
Antimatter Charge M, Qty: 95
Antimatter Charge M, Qty: 93
Antimatter Charge M, Qty: 93
Antimatter Charge M, Qty: 94
That's how it is on Sisi atm. Not too bad :)
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