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Ronce
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 01:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
For a single pilot eve player wanting to wh mine, is there a point? I seriously feel like I would be more satisfied sitting in jita holding my ankles. At least there, someone MIGHT refuse.
Does CCP really honestly want to drive people out of WH's? Do they just not give a flying shot at intercourse with a rolling doughnut? WHO THOUGHT THIS **** THROUGH!?
I'd rather sit bouncing off a warpgate in a titan, because there's a chance I could get away!
Good GOD CCP. WHY?! What is the motivation? I'm not screaming for the sake of being a jerk, I really really honestly want to know why you would turn miners into even more of a f'n porkchop and THEN give a pack of rabid hungry dogs; directions, fuel, and a f'n warp in point with NO EFFORT AT ALL.
Scenario goes like this: I'm in a pos, and hop into a mining ship (venture, whatever). Oops, someone's already cloaked at the grav site.
Scenario two goes like this: Scout ship with disruptor scan's into system and sees mining ship on scan, warps directly to grav site, locks you down, and you go boom.
Scenario three: You say eff it, hop in a warship and decide to go commit cannibalism by eating your own kind (I enjoy killing my own kind now and then.) Nobody is out mining because it is certain death to anyone with half a brain cell (that probably matches the idiot that thought grav sites as insta warps was a good idea).
Reality, I can't mine. I can't kill miners, W T F???????
Give WH's instant local intel, just like null. Or roll this back and say "my bad, we dumb" |
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc. Kill It With Fire
128
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 01:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ronce wrote: Give WH's instant local intel, just like null.
I'm sorry but No, your stupidity, laziness, and desire for effort free isk does not justify removing the single most wonderful thing there is about wormhole space.
(If you are mining with opened holes, without probes out (or at very least watching for a new sig to pop up, though there seems to be a slight delay on that so probes are better), you deserve to get podded over and over and over again, till you move back to high sec.)
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Ronce
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 01:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tisisan wrote:Ronce wrote: Give WH's instant local intel, just like null.
I'm sorry but No, your stupidity, laziness, and desire for effort free isk does not justify removing the single most wonderful thing there is about wormhole space. (If you are mining with opened holes, without probes out (or at very least watching for a new sig to pop up, though there seems to be a slight delay on that so probes are better), you deserve to get podded over and over and over again, till you move back to high sec.) Stupidy? Nope. sorry try again.
Lazy? I'm doing 3 jobs while mining. Mining, Watching for new spans, and spamming d-scan.
Desire for effort free isk? No, I work for my isk just like everyone else. I've put in my time in null, pirated in low, carebear'd in high.
If the risk is the same, why should there be any difference. Why is it wonderful? Effort free kills cause they can't see you?
In null: I jump into a system and see miners on scan, I warp to belts.
In wh's: I see miners on scan, I warp to belts.
Only difference? No intel channels, and no local flash.
Why bother with the difference if there is barely any distinction?
Troll on brother ! I'm right there with ya! |
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc. Kill It With Fire
128
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 01:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ronce wrote:Tisisan wrote:Ronce wrote: Give WH's instant local intel, just like null.
I'm sorry but No, your stupidity, laziness, and desire for effort free isk does not justify removing the single most wonderful thing there is about wormhole space. (If you are mining with opened holes, without probes out (or at very least watching for a new sig to pop up, though there seems to be a slight delay on that so probes are better), you deserve to get podded over and over and over again, till you move back to high sec.) Stupidy? Nope. sorry try again. Lazy? I'm doing 3 jobs while mining. Mining, Watching for new spans, and spamming d-scan. Desire for effort free isk? No, I work for my isk just like everyone else. I've put in my time in null, pirated in low, carebear'd in high. If the risk is the same, why should there be any difference. Why is it wonderful? Effort free kills cause they can't see you? In null: I jump into a system and see miners on scan, I warp to belts. In wh's: I see miners on scan, I warp to belts. Only difference? No intel channels, and no local flash. Why bother with the difference if there is barely any distinction?
You clearly implied that is you are mining with open holes. That is stupid. No other way around it.
You want wormhole ore without wormhole risk and wormhole effort. That is lazy.
The lack of local IS the difference. (See point above regarding "stupid.")
Go back to high sec. |
vizax vonkoffer
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 01:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tisisan wrote: I'm sorry but No, your stupidity, laziness, and desire for effort free isk does not justify removing the single most wonderful thing there is about wormhole space.
(If you are mining with opened holes, without probes out (or at very least watching for a new sig to pop up, though there seems to be a slight delay on that so probes are better), you deserve to get podded over and over and over again, till you move back to high sec.)
I agree with Ronce, same corp or not. If the WH is open, fine I understand the risk involved, but I completely agree with the fact that having free-grab warps to the grav site is complete crap. *Everything else* in the WH requires effort to find, why make this different.
HS/LS/NS belts have warp locations, why? Because its *known space*. In the unknown space of the unknown wormhole with unknown sites, why in the world would you grant a known site?! |
Ronce
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ya know what I find amusing?
You've assumed I've been mining, and that I'm complaining about no free isk.
I have not mined since the patch. I have not lost any ships personally to the patch changes. I'm livid because a newbie (rare, few and far between) lost my mining ship due to the patch changes. The ship isn't a big deal, I make enough to replace that no problem.
The problem is the injustice of a system that from a miners perspective is a direct assault on their ability to generate isk. If you look at the changes to mechanics, you should note from a non-biased perspective that wh mining has NEVER been safe. I lose barges quite often even while mashing d-scan for probes.
It just got a heap ton easier for any idiot with a blaster to take advantage of learning individuals, by making it lamentably easiy for a moron to get kills with less than manageable notification. (aka, probes/local spike) Yes, in a wh it's probes only.
What I am getting at, is that null mining is now easier than wh mining. |
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc. Kill It With Fire
128
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
vizax vonkoffer wrote: I agree with Ronce, same corp or not.
Ronce:
Kleinrock Heavy Industries 2012/10/15 13:37 Elite-Force2010/09/05 06:562011/10/20 13:07 Dark Ashes2007/04/01 01:182008/03/27 02:42 SolidLine Industry2006/08/21 06:172007/04/01 01:17
vizax vonkoffer:
Kleinrock Heavy Industries2013/01/16 17:48 Elite-Force2010/05/28 02:002012/02/18 08:30 Dark Ashes2007/04/01 01:182008/03/24 17:25 SolidLine Industry2006/08/13 14:172007/04/01 01:17
Bet most of my alts would agree with me too... funny that.
Go back to high sec.
|
vizax vonkoffer
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tisisan wrote:vizax vonkoffer wrote: I agree with Ronce, same corp or not.
Ronce: Kleinrock Heavy Industries 2012/10/15 13:37 Elite-Force2010/09/05 06:562011/10/20 13:07 Dark Ashes2007/04/01 01:182008/03/27 02:42 SolidLine Industry2006/08/21 06:172007/04/01 01:17 vizax vonkoffer: Kleinrock Heavy Industries2013/01/16 17:48 Elite-Force2010/05/28 02:002012/02/18 08:30 Dark Ashes2007/04/01 01:182008/03/24 17:25 SolidLine Industry2006/08/13 14:172007/04/01 01:17 Bet most of my alts would agree with me too... funny that. Go back to high sec.
Imagine that, friends who like to play together. its amazing!
Stop being a jerk about someone's legitimate opinion, just because you don't like it.
|
Ronce
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tisisan wrote:vizax vonkoffer wrote: I agree with Ronce, same corp or not.
Ronce: Kleinrock Heavy Industries 2012/10/15 13:37 Elite-Force2010/09/05 06:562011/10/20 13:07 Dark Ashes2007/04/01 01:182008/03/27 02:42 SolidLine Industry2006/08/21 06:172007/04/01 01:17 vizax vonkoffer: Kleinrock Heavy Industries2013/01/16 17:48 Elite-Force2010/05/28 02:002012/02/18 08:30 Dark Ashes2007/04/01 01:182008/03/24 17:25 SolidLine Industry2006/08/13 14:172007/04/01 01:17 Bet most of my alts would agree with me too... funny that. Go back to high sec.
are your alts separate people too? *glazed over look* Go back to wow!
|
vizax vonkoffer
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tisisan wrote:
Bet most of my alts would agree with me too... funny that.
Go back to high sec.
Tisisan
CURRENT CORPORATION Hard Knocks Inc. [HRDKX] from 2011.10.24 23:32 to this day PREVIOUS CORPORATION(S) ... Federal Navy Academy [FNA] from 2007.05.26 16:27 to 2007.05.27 06:31.
Hey, look, I was in Federal Navy Academy [FNA] too. Are you my lost alt? |
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Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc. Kill It With Fire
128
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
vizax vonkoffer wrote: Stop being a jerk about someone's legitimate opinion, just because you don't like it.
I am stating my opinions. Wait, what's that? Only you can do that?
Go back to high sec. |
Ronce
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
OK, in an effort to turn this away from just a flaming ball of troll spit...
Look. I'm venturing a point that what happened to miners in wh's...
is equally repulsive as local channel being populated automatically in wh's...
WITH THE DIFFERENCE
that miners really did take one up the ass.
I would be right there with you complaining about local in a wh being like null, if it happened.
However, the point remains, that it DID happen to miners in wh's, with just a different channel of the mechanics.
You respond with "go back to HS" and I say "why bother, ccp is turning wh's into highsec, lowsec, nullsec anyways"
|
Ronce
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ronce wrote:
You respond with "go back to HS" and I say "why bother, ccp is turning wh's into highsec, lowsec, nullsec anyways"
I'm now going to refer to wh's as "Omni-sec" |
vizax vonkoffer
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ronce wrote: I'm now going to refer to wh's as "Omni-sec"
WH = OS
OS... hmmm, maybe the problem is that this "OS" is turning out kinda like Windows Vista. Nice try, but didn't think it through all the way? |
Craggus
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
105
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Can we just change grav sites to only be able to be scanned down by mining ships? Also, when you start pve stuff, can the wh connections automatically close? While we are at it, can d-scan spam itself and if anything new pops up, your ship auto-warps?
I'm just kidding. I like the tears too much. |
Ronce
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
Wait, tears? Where?
I'm bitching, not crying. Crying implies loss. Bitching = pissed at the shift in mechanics |
T0SHI KONI
Day Trippers Anonymous
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
The real question should be why would you mine in WH in the first place when it is one on the least lucrative parts of the hole. I live in a C1 and make more shooting red crosses and mining gas than punching ark. |
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc. Kill It With Fire
128
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ronce wrote:OK, in an effort to turn this away from just a flaming ball of troll spit...
Look. I'm venturing a point that what happened to miners in wh's...
is equally repulsive as local channel being populated automatically in wh's...
WITH THE DIFFERENCE
that miners really did take one up the ass.
I would be right there with you complaining about local in a wh being like null, if it happened.
However, the point remains, that it DID happen to miners in wh's, with just a different channel of the mechanics.
You respond with "go back to HS" and I say "why bother, ccp is turning wh's into highsec, lowsec, nullsec anyways"
Ok. Can anyone else make out what he's saying here? He agrees with me. But he's making a point. Miners got ******. He would agree with me if wormholes turned into null. But it already happened.
Wut? I'm lost.
Look. Miners got a disadvantage from the last patch, people don't have to scan down sites any more. Yup. They also got an advantage. New sigs pop up automatically. You're solution to all of this is to give wormholes instant local. So it's like null sec. But you don't want it to be...
God, I'm lost again.
But you don't mine and don't lose ships mining, but you always dscan/check for sigs.. wut? Lost again...
I have a headache.
I am going to find alcohol.
You and your 'friend' who also really likes typing random phrases and words in all caps and using "..." should just, you guessed it, go back to high sec.
I hear they have local there. |
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc. Kill It With Fire
128
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
T0SHI KONI wrote:The real question should be why would you mine in WH in the first place when it is one on the least lucrative parts of the hole. I live in a C1 and make more shooting red crosses and mining gas than punching ark.
Damn, I had meant to add that to my list of stupid I put in the earlier post, but it got lost in the crowd :(
|
Ronce
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
alright.
For clarification: I said I wasn't mining since the patch.
I said I'd ***** with you if wh's got local population instantly.
The point I was trying to make was this:
If you are going to screw over one aspect of the game, punish everyone equally.
New sigs popping up instantly is ok, but I've never seen one pop instantly.
I've got scotch! We can troll at each other over a drink.
|
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Craggus
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
105
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
No local chat! It makes hard knocks spam that much better. |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
162
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 03:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
There are several things you can do to make yourself safe(r) while mining in WHs.
If that newbie friend of yours who lost his ship wasn't doing any of them, it's his own fault.
Step one. Close your holes. Step two. Put a small bubble at the ore site warpin, with enough decloak cans to ensure a decloak. Step three. Mine like normal, more than 50km but less than 150 from the warpin. Keep an eye on the sig list, checking/unchecking the show anomalies box multiple times a minute (since that's the only way I've found to guarantee the sigs are refreshed).
Doing that, you are not any less safe than you were mining before the patch, if you're paying attention. If you're not perfectly paying attention, you may even be more safe, since the sig will be visible any time after being opened, whereas combat probes only would've been on dscan for ~30sec or so.
If someone is already in your hole waiting, then you'll still die...but that's no different from before, since they would've had the ore sites BMed anyway and you still would've had 0 warning.
Miner ganks happened before the change, and they will continue to happen after. People who are afk or not paying attention will get blown up. People who are paying attention will be fine. |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
2155
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 04:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ronce wrote: Give WH's instant local intel, just like null. BAHAHAHAHHAHAHA yeah how about no? Go mine in nullsec if you want local. You'll get better ore too.
For the record: Making mining sites into anoms was are really fkn stupid move and if I cared about mining in the slightest I'd be all over CCP for doing it. That said, no one gives a crap about mining in WHs cos there is no isk in it, even before the changes. (Yeah, I know people mine in WHs, it's cos theyre too stupid to mine in kspace.) |
Dring Dingle
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
40
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 04:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
HAHAHA.
NO LOCAL.
the only thing that needs to change?
Move the ore sites back to sigs. not anoms!
WH space kept their NPC's in Radar / hacking / whatever the fk they are called now. Why couldnt the ore sites (LIKE THE GAS) remain?! I just dont understand the reasoning behind moving the ore sites to anoms. |
T0SHI KONI
Day Trippers Anonymous
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 05:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
I either read or heard on a podcast that the reason CCP gave for making Grav/Ore sites into anoms was to try and move 0.0/LS miners into belts. Why they wanted to do that or let the effect carry over to WH, your guess is as good as mine. |
Winthorp
Van Diemen's Demise Northern Coalition.
161
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 05:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Why did i read this thread, i am so lost now.
Go SD your hulk or something. |
chris elliot
EG CORP Mass Overload
215
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 05:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ronce wrote: Stupidy? Nope. sorry try again.
Lazy? I'm doing 3 jobs while mining. Mining, Watching for new spans, and spamming d-scan.
Well you obviously aren't very good at staying alive. So there may some validity there.
Lazy? You seem to only run around in bombers..... I'd call that pretty lazy. |
Vjorn Angannon
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
87
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 05:45:00 -
[28] - Quote
Hmmmmm
I dunno, but taking my venture into a system with a few pilots logged on, at zero in an ore site.....
.... could actually be fun |
Kira Hhallas
Very Drunken Eve Flying Instructors Brotherhood Of Silent Space
171
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 06:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
@Chris Winter Jup this works well. Best WH to miner, is a C3 with static LS. Under the Week you dont have so much sigs to scann and if you close the WH you have realy nice mining OPS.
Next step, Rorqual bonus, and retrivers. Everyone can hauler there stuff with retrieves. If you lost a Rretriever with some T2 stuff in it, its not the world (30mil isk) With an cycle time from 104 s /1880m-¦ per stripminer You have a realy nice day.
greatings Kira Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare -
Irren ist menschlich, doch im Irrtum zu verharren ist ein Zeichen von Dummheit. |
Moo Moocow
Bite Me inc Bitten.
13
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 08:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
I'd never want local back in w-space but I think the ability to warp straight to an ore belt and the new sigs popping up almost immediately are both bad mechanics.
No one seems particularly happy with either of them.
If people want to hunt miners, let them invest time and effort training up a decent scanner to scan them down quickly. (None of this dumbed down scanning for the masses lark...)
And if people want to mine they should be able to able to get fairly decent isk from it compared to 0.0 because I haven't shot at a mining fleet in ages..... |
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Kira Hhallas
Very Drunken Eve Flying Instructors Brotherhood Of Silent Space
171
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 09:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
So if you close the WH and your fleet has about 5 man..... they are able to look in DScan or normal Anomaly scan. W-space is not so hard to shoot some miners. most of them ignor the Dscan, so you get them easy. Also befor the patch if you where fast you get them under 1 min, and they never know what happend to them.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18681816
i waited half an hour, because i have to wait for the others. Meanwhile, they scanned down the HS and they did not close it..... This was realy negligence. If they closed it, they never lost a ship on that day. Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare -
Irren ist menschlich, doch im Irrtum zu verharren ist ein Zeichen von Dummheit. |
James Arget
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
138
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 09:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
While I do love constant squabbling.. I'll try to add a gudpost to this.
When the grav sigs to ore anoms changes were made, I pointedly asked for an accompanying change to keep the risk:reward of wspace mining roughly the same. It was not an area CCP was willing to get involved in, as it would potentially affect a very large number of other players.
Unfortunately, wspace mining is quite literally a fraction of a fraction of the vast sum of playstyles, and as such I doubt there will be targeted changes made. However, I am committed to making sure that changes to the game are inclusive to our little niche.
Fly Safe. CSM 8 Representative
http://csm8.org |
Forget Myface
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 10:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Bro, u just gotta blue up with everyone.. get like 20000 blues in your corp, and then all move into the same system. It works like a charm!
EDITED: Fixed accuracy |
Jynx Surati
Bite Me inc Bitten.
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 11:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
why mine when you can do it for zero effort in high-sec. |
Kira Hhallas
Very Drunken Eve Flying Instructors Brotherhood Of Silent Space
171
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 12:00:00 -
[35] - Quote
See it for you advantage,.... you have also the chance to shoot down miner in other Wormholes... Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare -
Irren ist menschlich, doch im Irrtum zu verharren ist ein Zeichen von Dummheit. |
Jynx Surati
Bite Me inc Bitten.
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 12:07:00 -
[36] - Quote
Kira Hhallas wrote:See it for you advantage,.... you have also the chance to shoot down miner in other Wormholes...
Don't get me wrong. I love a free snack.
I suggest finding a way to adapt without increasing effort to safety. I won't tell you how though |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
537
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 12:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
vizax vonkoffer wrote: If the WH is open, fine I understand the risk involved, but I completely agree with the fact that having free-grab warps to the grav site is complete crap. *Everything else* in the WH requires effort to find, why make this different.
Not true, most wormhole ratting happens in combat anomalies and they are just as easy to warp to as ore anoms are now.
I agree that wormhole mining is too dangerous now to make sense. Tbh, it always was. Being semi-afk is the only way to mine without dying of boredom (which is why I don't mine). And mining afk in nullsec space is obviously suicidal.
But if you absolutely insist to mine in wormholes, you'll have to rely on d-scan and hole control just like everybody else. . |
Random Woman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
52
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 12:56:00 -
[38] - Quote
Can we get the clever/funny trolls back, this one is neither funny nor clever and its trying to hard,. |
SpiderPig 96
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 13:37:00 -
[39] - Quote
Guys I have a crazy idea.... If you don't like the current way ore sites in WHs work... then don't go mining in WHs? Crazy I know, but just throwin that out there. |
Ubersnug Dallocort
Lead Farmers Origin Kill It With Fire
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 14:40:00 -
[40] - Quote
I really don't see the issue. if anything the patch has made things EASIER for the WH miner.
Ill repeat and echo, mostly, what has been said here:
1. Scan down your wh Yes, scan down every sig and confirm what they are. Apart from your static, you have an incoming. Well, first of all, always assume your static has been compromised. So roll it, then scan the new static but DON'tT WARP TO IT. Then, roll your incoming, assuming it's safe to do so.
There you go, your wormhole is locked down
2. Jump in your mining ship and double check the number of sigs and the sig id's match what you previous scanned. They do? awesome. Clear your results so you have an empty probe scan result.
3a. Without probes out, just keep an eye on any new sigs that appear. HAving cleared your results previously should make any new sigs blindingly obvious. So, when something new appears, Immediately warp out.
3b. With probes out, you might just catch that sig before your standard scan window registers it, meaning you can get out of dodge a few seconds eariler that not having probes out.
Now, if you look at the above 3 steps, THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING PRE PATCH ANYWAY! If you are AFKing ANYTHING in a WH, then you are doing it wrong people. |
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Moirae Nemesis
Bite Me inc Bitten.
16
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 15:09:00 -
[41] - Quote
i have mined. ok ok i was really really drunk, and it was a really really long time ago.
the problem with wormhole space mining is that it is, in every way, a little worse than mining in null sec.
the composition of the belts also do not support building anything. take the building component away and what is remaining is mining abc ore for isk. and here is where it starts getting funny.
you need a rorqual to compress the ore to really make it proper profitable, but that you already have in null sec.
what should change is, a wormhole only, ore refinery posmodule that would be vastly better than the current one. other than that, its business as usual. scouts on all wormholes, keep an eye out for new sigs. same as in null.
i feel that if we remove the hauling to highsec and change composition of belts so that they have added veldspar, mining in wormholes would be more interesting and common.
so OT. no, there is no point. |
Kira Hhallas
Very Drunken Eve Flying Instructors Brotherhood Of Silent Space
171
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 15:14:00 -
[42] - Quote
A question what is bothering me. Does the K162 side appears at the Moment you scan it to 100% or does it appears in the Moment warp to the static WH. What i know is , that if the sigs is scanned to 100% the WH will open the K162 and the timer beguns to run....
Can some confirm it ?
Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare -
Irren ist menschlich, doch im Irrtum zu verharren ist ein Zeichen von Dummheit. |
Bjurn Akely
Knights of Nii The 20 Minuters
20
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 15:16:00 -
[43] - Quote
James Arget wrote:While I do love constant squabbling.. I'll try to add a gudpost to this.
When the grav sigs to ore anoms changes were made, I pointedly asked for an accompanying change to keep the risk:reward of wspace mining roughly the same. It was not an area CCP was willing to get involved in, as it would potentially affect a very large number of other players.
Unfortunately, wspace mining is quite literally a fraction of a fraction of the vast sum of playstyles, and as such I doubt there will be targeted changes made. However, I am committed to making sure that changes to the game are inclusive to our little niche.
Fly Safe.
You write a bit convoluted here so I'm having trouble understanding what you really mean. What does "not an area CCP was willing to get involved in" mean? CCP don't want to get involved in their game? They could hire me then and I can do that.
Also: I just want to inform you that even though I do not mine but rather hunt miners I liked the old way much much more. There is nothing even closely related to skill to kill miners now. With the old mechanic I at least had to scan them down in one scan and MAYBE I'd get them. Challenge-less is useless. And very boring.
I know several people that are of the same opinion. So please James, work with getting W-space harder. Start with sigs popping up as soon as they appear, please. It's really a game-breaker. |
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
112
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:27:00 -
[44] - Quote
Was going to +1 every comment that disagreed with the OP. But can't be bothered.
Pay attention, don't sit one warp in at zero, gtfo when someone uncloaks next to you. It's not rocket science is it? If it's a stealth bomber pointing you, it'll take around 3.5seconds or so to lock a venture (about the same as venture align time - but ofcourse, you'll be aligned), and then it has to apply a scram to lock you there.
If it is any other cloaky managing to point you. Well you deserve to die. |
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc. Kill It With Fire
134
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:30:00 -
[45] - Quote
Kira Hhallas wrote:A question what is bothering me. Does the K162 side appears at the Moment you scan it to 100% or does it appears in the Moment warp to the static WH. What i know is , that if the sigs is scanned to 100% the WH will open the K162 and the timer beguns to run....
Can some confirm it ?
The second. You can scan it down and leave it and the other side will not show up till someone warps to your side later. |
James Arget
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
141
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:08:00 -
[46] - Quote
Bjurn Akely wrote:James Arget wrote:While I do love constant squabbling.. I'll try to add a gudpost to this.
When the grav sigs to ore anoms changes were made, I pointedly asked for an accompanying change to keep the risk:reward of wspace mining roughly the same. It was not an area CCP was willing to get involved in, as it would potentially affect a very large number of other players.
Unfortunately, wspace mining is quite literally a fraction of a fraction of the vast sum of playstyles, and as such I doubt there will be targeted changes made. However, I am committed to making sure that changes to the game are inclusive to our little niche.
Fly Safe. You write a bit convoluted here so I'm having trouble understanding what you really mean. What does "not an area CCP was willing to get involved in" mean? CCP don't want to get involved in their game? They could hire me then and I can do that. Also: I just want to inform you that even though I do not mine but rather hunt miners I liked the old way much much more. There is nothing even closely related to skill to kill miners now. With the old mechanic I at least had to scan them down in one scan and MAYBE I'd get them. Challenge-less is useless. And very boring. I know several people that are of the same opinion. So please James, work with getting W-space harder. Start with sigs popping up as soon as they appear, please. It's really a game-breaker. I suggested a specific change to keep the risk:reward balance as it was, but CCP judged that it had too much potential spillover to be something they could change.
I shouldn't write stuff at 4am.
CSM 8 Representative
http://csm8.org |
Bjurn Akely
Knights of Nii The 20 Minuters
20
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 18:52:00 -
[47] - Quote
James Arget wrote: I suggested a specific change to keep the risk:reward balance as it was, but CCP judged that it had too much potential spillover to be something they could change.
They should think again IMO. Now W-space feels pretty much like Null. Boring and easy to avoid fights if you want to. Site farming is very easy with little risk of being ganked. My wallet tells me so. I'd rather have a leaner wallet and more spectacular loss mails. |
Oxandrolone
Bite Me inc Bitten.
207
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 21:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
If you are dieing in a venture you are a ******* idiot or afk
It has +2 warp core strength It aligns and warps in <5 seconds Its cap stable with AB on Goes over 2k with MWD Costs about 20million
|
Srensis
Hard Knocks Inc. Kill It With Fire
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 22:17:00 -
[49] - Quote
go back to hisec |
Jess Tanner
Hard Knocks Inc. Kill It With Fire
30
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 00:26:00 -
[50] - Quote
Just wanted to drop by and say that Hard Knocks offically supports instant populating local but only for miners cause everyone else will just abuse this with trolls and poorly google translated insults, ore sites only being probe scanned sites again, a decloaking mechanism in all grav sites to prevent afk tacklers from sitting in grav sites for endless hours waiting to kill miners precious ventures, +10 to all mining ships warp strength so miners dont have to worry about fitting there ships for survival and a loud BONG BONG WARNING WARNING sound whenever someone jumps into the same hole as a ship that is mining... |
|
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1404
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 03:30:00 -
[51] - Quote
Of course there is a point.
It starts wonderful threads like this one. http://www.wormholes.info |
Evangelina Nolen
Sama Guild
35
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 04:00:00 -
[52] - Quote
I've mined in WH space while AFK after odyssey. Tech 1 barges pay for themselves in less than 2 hours, still haven't been ganked. If you want to maximize profits by using tech 2 barges; you have to secure the wh at all times.
Edit: Ventures don't cost 20m. What are u smoking? |
Kira Hhallas
Very Drunken Eve Flying Instructors Brotherhood Of Silent Space
171
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 06:18:00 -
[53] - Quote
Tisisan wrote:Kira Hhallas wrote:A question what is bothering me. Does the K162 side appears at the Moment you scan it to 100% or does it appears in the Moment warp to the static WH. What i know is , that if the sigs is scanned to 100% the WH will open the K162 and the timer beguns to run....
Can some confirm it ?
The second. You can scan it down and leave it and the other side will not show up till someone warps to your side later.
Strange, in the last month we had some "Bugs" New Wormholes are appear on the same place then the old one. Funny thing was, if you jumped to the old BM and you dont scanned the new one to 100%, we also found a WH... but you cant jump through and the timer never begun to run.... In the moment a other player scanned the WH to 100%, the timer started and i was possible to use.
We had this "Bug" in the last month 2 -3 times.
Thats why I ask.
Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare -
Irren ist menschlich, doch im Irrtum zu verharren ist ein Zeichen von Dummheit. |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
481
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 07:31:00 -
[54] - Quote
I agree these changes are very bad for the wh-miner, and clearly in the favour of the hunter. Even when you close your current exits, don't form the new ones and be vigilant on looking for new entrances forming as well as spamming the crap out of that D-scan, there is absolutely nothing that can be done to protect yourself against someone that is already in system. You see enough nullsec players moaning about AFK-cloakers, in wh-space you don't even know they're there to moan about. And once you finally think you're safe, BAM! You're locked, scrammed, jammed and slammed.
For that reason, i don't agree with hunters that moan that the system is now unfair against them. Sure, when you scan down that hole and enter you can expect everyone to immediately scatter in the presence of that new entrance, but after that it's free season! All you have to do then is wait patiently (or logoff till later), and soon enough those fools will start feeling all safe again, ready for you to ****-their-face.
Persoanlly, i think wh-mining is now dangerous in the extreme! Only something that should be attempted in a cheap venture, fully accepting that death is a good possibility. Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
Kira Hhallas
Very Drunken Eve Flying Instructors Brotherhood Of Silent Space
171
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 08:02:00 -
[55] - Quote
Ehmm.... it is W-Space ? W-Space should be in this way ? And yes we are prey and hunter together. But we never said the system ist unfair to the hunters.
So if you move into a WH system, you accpeted the danger that you can lose all, what you bring in or built in this wormhole System. And by the way.. it not so heasy to lose a Large Tower becasue in w-space... nobody will jump with 20 dreads out of the nothing and shoot your tower into RF....
So the danger is calculable. Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare -
Irren ist menschlich, doch im Irrtum zu verharren ist ein Zeichen von Dummheit. |
Nix Anteris
Bite Me inc Bitten.
100
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 18:21:00 -
[56] - Quote
I read as far as the first line
Ronce wrote:... single pilot ... wh ...
Welcome to the most hostile environment to live in. You want to do it solo, you need the stones to go with it. That is all. |
Sorany
Hard Knocks Inc. Kill It With Fire
66
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 19:14:00 -
[57] - Quote
if we get a local chat can we also get supers?
|
Lucas Ericsson
Obstergo
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 19:22:00 -
[58] - Quote
I didn't mind scanning down the miners the old fashioned way. Easier to catch them? Yep.
However, now that there is the new scanner system they also know when I have just rolled into their system.
We're even I think ;) |
Proclus Diadochu
Obstergo
310
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 19:33:00 -
[59] - Quote
I wish to formally complain about mining in wormholes...
...because it is seriously important to this community. /s ~Boredom Breeds Direction~ |
Godfrey Silvarna
Frozen Dawn Inc Arctic Light
83
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 21:32:00 -
[60] - Quote
Join a corp. |
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Senn Denroth
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
86
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 00:22:00 -
[61] - Quote
I'm sorry but I read your first two posts and I've wasted enough time on you already. Your ideas are way out there and the idea that you're working hard for your ISK at the moment is a joke.
Ronce wrote: Lazy? I'm doing 3 jobs while mining. Mining, Watching for new spans, and spamming d-scan.
Whos leg are you trying to pull? Mining means you just activate your lasers and sit there staring at your screen. Watching for new spans? WTF. Checking dscan? WTF??!? Just close your entrance, ignore all sigs, wait for a new sig to pop up on scanner while you sit back listening to all your hard working mining lasers do everything for you.
Ronce wrote: Give WH's instant local intel, just like null. Or roll this back and say "my bad, we dumb"
I'm sorry but please go back to hisec mining so I can gank you for being so ignorant.
Heaven help you if I find your wormhole.
0.5/10 |
Frying Doom
2524
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 02:14:00 -
[62] - Quote
That was why I left WHs
I enjoyed mining, but given that WH mining is kind of insane to start with given the refining arrays, to make them more dangerous gave me a clear path.
So I closed 4 accounts and moved out of a WH, now I just spend my time trading, not as much fun but infinitely better than bashing my head against a wall waiting to be ganked. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
The Scope Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 08:42:00 -
[63] - Quote
It's impossible to know what they were thinking when they destroyed grav sites and made them warpable. It just makes no sense. However it did benefit the megacorperations and damage our ability to mine for what we need for various endevors.
However, I do believe having Goonswarm on the CSM was also a problem.
Call me crazy. |
G0hme
Hoover Inc. Test Alliance Please Ignore
118
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 10:47:00 -
[64] - Quote
OP Troll post.
And you all fell for it.
10/10
Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012 Shook CCP Dolan's hand at Fanfest 2013
Booted someone EVE-Famous from a pub at Fanfest 2013 |
Trinkets friend
T.R.I.A.D
1042
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 06:37:00 -
[65] - Quote
I made an alt to do mining. I threw his ass in a Retriever and started mining. I made money. I never died. Nor did i check d-scan. I did it while alt-tabbed out at work.
Sure, it's dangerous. But you may as well be doing it afk and not worry about getting vaped every now and then. That's when it gets to stressful.
Oh, also, doing it in a C3 with nullsec static is probably a good idea. Indigently pwning indifferently. Some sucker buy me a Naglfar. http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
|
Helgrind Wolf
WaKE Inc Company of Spacefarers
12
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 10:25:00 -
[66] - Quote
Was out mining in my delicious mack the other day, saw a cynabal enter wh and warp to me, warped my mining toon out and my drake pilot in and had a hell of a good fight, got that cynabal too even though is proteus friends finished me off with a glorious explosion.
I would like to see a refining array that doesn't ask me to bend over though. |
Bjurn Akely
Knights of Nii The 20 Minuters
20
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 15:18:00 -
[67] - Quote
Helgrind Wolf wrote:Was out mining in my delicious mack the other day, saw a cynabal enter wh and warp to me, warped my mining toon out and my drake pilot in and had a hell of a good fight, got that cynabal too even though is proteus friends finished me off with a glorious explosion. I would like to see a refining array that doesn't ask me to bend over though.
That's the spirit! Kudos!
|
Yoshmoto
Bite Me inc Bitten.
7
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 22:48:00 -
[68] - Quote
You are such a bear. Get some balls or GTFO wormhole space and go to K space.
They have already given you bears local chat. AKA insta spawning sigs so you don't even have to have combat probes out.
I spend a lot of time hunting miners like you because you **** me off so much.
Why don't you do something about this yourself instead of asking CCP to change the game?
Why not have a ewar ship cloaked nearby? Why not have a cloaky proteus cloaked next to you to counter the gank?
Bait the ganker with a tanky ship 1st to blow his cover.
I know why you don't do this.! You want to sit on your ass and make free ISK without having to work for it.
WH space is for people with balls. Deal with it or STFU. |
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
1157
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 00:23:00 -
[69] - Quote
Ronce wrote: I'm not screaming for the sake of being a jerk ...
Hmmm, I will reserve judgement on that for the time being.
Not entirely sure what the 'issue' is here, you have so clouded it in your erstwhile manual self-gratification that it's kinda lost to me.
Is the perceived problem that the grav sites no longer require probe scanning, and so are easier for hostiles to catch miners at? If that's it, it does seem to be a pretty major shift in risk-benefit profile. When I knew all my wormholes were virgins and scanned down a grav site, I used to feel safer mining there than in hisec. Sure I could have a camper who had scanned the site down before me and was just waiting, but that was pretty unlikely.
Still, even if you do not have to probe scan them nowadays you still have the fundamental w-space safety tenet of managing your wormholes. If you know they are all virgins then you only need to keep a watch for a new spawner to stay relatively safe while mining.
All the same, that's a pretty major nerfing of w-space miner safety.
As for immediate local in w-space? Like inya dreams sweetheart. A goodly portion of null folk are screaming to turn null local into delayed, w-space style, local ... while another (mainly nullbear) faction are calling for cloaking to be nerfed so people cannot sit in local afk-all-day and spook them. Everyone wants eve to be changed to suit what they wanna do. oh well. If w-space mining is not worhwhile then I guess it'd be best not to mine. BTW if you want to park that titan on a gate please let me know, I know some people who'd be more than happy to come play with you there. I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
165
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 00:29:00 -
[70] - Quote
Not sure if it's a bug or intentional, but new sigs aren't showing up for me until I refresh the list by checking/unchecking the "show anomalies" checkbox.
That said...it's no different than clicking dscan every now and then to check for probes. |
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