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Ender Wiggan
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 03:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
This idea came out of a discussion spawned by the recent Mittani article regarding super caps. This idea is independant of the changes proposed in that article.
Tl;dr - Remove jump-portal from Titan completely. Add "tether-jumping" capability to super carriers and carriers.
What is a Tether-Jump? As the name implies, a tether-jump is one in which a jumping ship carries with it a number of ships which have been 'tethered' to it. Whether this tethering action is initiated by the person being jumped, or the person doing the jumping, or both is to be determined.
Who can tether-jump? In my initial proposal, both super-carriers and carriers will be able to tether-jump. How many people can be carried depends on the ship-class. To start discussion, I suggest one wing for a super-carrier, one squad for a carrier.
Example mechanical implementation: A super-carrier character takes a wing-command position in a fleet. He then has the option to "tether-jump" to a cyno beacon. If he initiates this action, he will take every member of his wing within some arbitrary distance with him (say, 10km). Alternatively, players could right-click any given super-carrier and choose "tether to xxx". When that super-carrier jumps, they will be taken with. Players attempting to tether to an already at capacity carrier/super-carrier will be notified they can't complete the action.
I suggest the tether-jump fuel cost to be set so that a max-skilled character will empty their entire fuel bay to tether jump their max capacity, to their maximum range. So an all level 5 super pilot can jump 50 people to the max range, but it will empty them entirely. In this way, supers wishing to tether-jump long ranges must carry fuel transports with them.
The effect of this proposal: Without considering any other proposed changes to EHP or other characteristics of supers. This proposal will act to put high-value ships acting in a logistical capacity in harms way. To reinforce with a fleet of 250 people requires 5 super-carriers, or 25 carriers to be placed on the field. Long-range reinforcements are huge commitments, not only are the carriers/super-carriers vulnerable on land due to not having fuel to extract. The entire reinforcing fleet is fractionally weaker than a regular fleet as some proportion of it must be made up of fuel transporters in one way or another.
I feel that this change would make rapid deployment and reinforcement more dangerous and hence more exciting for all involved.
Would love to hear people's thoughts on this idea.
Final word I can't claim this idea as mine. That honour goes to redditor Acidictadpole who posted the first reference to it in the comments at TheMittani.com |

Yun Kuai
Justified Chaos
48
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 06:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ender Wiggan wrote:T
I suggest the tether-jump fuel cost to be set so that a max-skilled character will empty their entire fuel bay to tether jump their max capacity, to their maximum range. So an all level 5 super pilot can jump 50 people to the max range, but it will empty them entirely. In this way, supers wishing to tether-jump long ranges must carry fuel transports with them.
I like this idea except for this part. The logistical aspect of this proposal adds an enormous amount of extra work to a relative difficult game mechanic. Leaving a 25bil isk ship vulnerable as it lands on grid is a bad idea.
And if you were to implement the idea of tethering, this should continue to be a Titan only capability. It would mean putting titans on the field when your bridge a fleet  |

suid0
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
36
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 07:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ender Wiggan wrote: I feel that this change would make rapid deployment and reinforcement more dangerous and hence more exciting for all involved.
This change would just make rapid deployments slower and essentially make it harder and more of a logistical pain for players to create content.
|

bartos100
Living Ghost
19
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 07:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
i like te idea but i would keep it as a titan only option just like the jump portal now
and as for fuel i would make it depended on the mass of the ships going with the titan
so that a full fleet of heavy plated BS would leave just enough fuel for the titan to jump out alone
but to make sure that the titan can't just jump in and out to get a fleet in position he has to use 70% of his cap to tether jump no mater how many ships he takes with him
also no capital ships allowed on tether jumps (not even freighters/orcas)
this will limit logistics in 0.0 i know but only in a select few operations a JF can not be used so for those you will need to form a convoy to protect your freighters :) |

Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
241
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 09:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
bartos100 wrote:i like te idea but i would keep it as a titan only option just like the jump portal now
and as for fuel i would make it depended on the mass of the ships going with the titan
so that a full fleet of heavy plated BS would leave just enough fuel for the titan to jump out alone
I don't like the idea with the mass. It sounds well enough and organic at first, but it also might confer an unfair advantage to shield fleets with less mass but the same or even more amount of ships / hitting power. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |

Mascha Tzash
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
83
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 09:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think the tethering should be done by the player being jumped and has to be renewed after every jump. Other way around it would dumb down to: wait, lock target, F1.
How about letting the tether-cyno only be able to act as a target for jut one tetherjump? Surely with a little twist. :) A carrier, a dread or a JF can act as a tether target for a squad. These can be tethered to a super-carrier or a titan, which can act as a tether target fro a wing. And then only a titan can act as a tethering target on a fleet level with the additional benefit that it lowers the fuel costs for jumping or increases the jump range.
On the other hand I'm not sure how this mechanic should work for Black Ops.
Fly safe! |

Ender Wiggan
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 09:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yun Kuai wrote:I like this idea except for this part. The logistical aspect of this proposal adds an enormous amount of extra work to a relative difficult game mechanic. Leaving a 25bil isk ship vulnerable as it lands on grid is a bad idea. And if you were to implement the idea of tethering, this should continue to be a Titan only capability. It would mean putting titans on the field when your bridge a fleet 
I get what you're saying about the vulnerability, but that's really the point of the whole endeavour. As it stands, supers/titans don't get committed unless the odds are overwhelmingly in favour of the deployers. By making it a requisite that the ships be committed, you change the nature of tactics. If you're confident you can hold your deployment, then tether-jump straight into the system, if you're not, then you might want to try getting in from a peripheral system.
Quote:his change would just make rapid deployments slower and essentially make it harder and more of a logistical pain for players to create content.
Once again, that's what we're endeavoring to do. We want to force supers be a physical part of a deployment. We also want reinforcement to be difficult. We don't want to it to be easy to do the logistics required to shift vast quantities of people across light years. Spatial location of fleets should be important as opposed to the compressed nature of space that results from easy-access bridging. |

JD No7
Malevolent Intentions Ineluctable.
66
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 10:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Really like this idea. Needs some working on, but really fixes hot-dropping etc.
Carriers limited to 1 gang seems steep though. Make it fleet for any tethering and tie in a fuel cost based on mass or ship size, meaning a carrier cold tether 30 cruisers or 15 BCs but a Mship would be needed for a BS fleet. |

Mascha Tzash
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
83
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 12:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
JD No7 wrote:Really like this idea. Needs some working on, but really fixes hot-dropping etc.
Carriers limited to 1 gang seems steep though. Make it fleet for any tethering and tie in a fuel cost based on mass or ship size, meaning a carrier cold tether 30 cruisers or 15 BCs but a Mship would be needed for a BS fleet.
Mass as a single limiting factor would put shield ships in favor over armor ships. Using a factor like singature/mass could level it. |

Unkind Omen
Russian Thunder Squad Darkness of Despair
18
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Posted - 2013.07.25 12:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tethering mechanics would be hard to actually implement.
Why don't just make pods the only thing that can use jump portals and force people to use SMA to carry big ships? Alternatively make clone jump bays larger and remove the 24h limit on clone jumping. And add the ******* POS forcefield(5 km would be enough to cover pods) to Titans.
P.S. Just for the lolz.
|

Vesan Terakol
Sad Face Enterprises
14
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 12:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
suid0 wrote:Ender Wiggan wrote: I feel that this change would make rapid deployment and reinforcement more dangerous and hence more exciting for all involved.
This change would just make rapid deployments slower and essentially make it harder and more of a logistical pain for players to create content.
Quote the opposite, this will allow players to create more content by spending that extra effort in logistics, as currently logistics are rather limited on the field of battle. the only logistically hampered engagements are POS-bashes by a single bomber or noob roams, where half the members forgot to take their ammo or fit their guns. |

Ender Wiggan
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 12:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mascha Tzash wrote:I think the tethering should be done by the player being jumped and has to be renewed after every jump. Other way around it would dumb down to: wait, lock target, F1.
How about letting the tether-cyno only be able to act as a target for jut one tetherjump? Surely with a little twist. :) A carrier, a dread or a JF can act as a tether target for a squad. These can be tethered to a super-carrier or a titan, which can act as a tether target fro a wing. And then only a titan can act as a tethering target on a fleet level with the additional benefit that it lowers the fuel costs for jumping or increases the jump range.
On the other hand I'm not sure how this mechanic should work for Black Ops.
Fly safe!
Hey Mascha, interesting idea. Initially I thought about making the Titan a tether jumper which could jump a whole 250 man fleet. I dunno, could work.
I don't really like the mechanical implementation of limiting tether jumps to cynos. I'd prefer the limit be tied to the class of the jumper.
I agree that the mechanic should probably work via buy in from the fleet members (i.e. each person in a wing must choose to tether).
Originally I was imagining limiting it to carriers and super-carriers, mostly for lore type reasons. It makes sense that the carriers/super carriers would be the ones to "carry" others into combat. I'm open to leaving a Titan as the one that jumps whole fleets in. Though that may not gel very well with changes to the ship classes EHPs.
I don't think the tether-jump should be mass/hull limited in anyway. The ways suggested so far, and ones I've thought of myself (quantities of hulls) all leave people wondering "can I make this jump" and having to calculate how many abaddons vs. how many megas vs. how many ahacs they can take through. I prefer the simpler mechanic of having it squad limited or wing limited. In fact, you don't even need to require that the tether-jumper be in a leadership position if it's via buy in. Though you'd perhaps want to include ship size icons in the fleet list for classes that can tether jump so squad members can easily identify who they should tether to. |

Dark Drifter
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
75
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 14:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
+1
i fully support this !!!
sugestion:
Titan can tether a fleet MOM can tether a wing carrier can tether a squad. black ops can tether a squad.
tethering a full fleet/wing/squad will not empty the fuel bay just add a delay timer for jumping/tethering. say 60-120 sec for a (supa)cap to jump out. 5-10 min for one to tether jump again (reducable with a skill).
giving a carrier the ability to do this would be a boon for small gang/corp/alliance operations. and i want it to happen
to all people complaining about force projection issues, and logistics issues. decreasing the ability of a power bock to force project (current state of SOV combat) would force them to actually defend their space instead of owning 100 systems and only using 10, because they can jump 100 supas on to a small roaming fleet from 10s of jumps away in 2 seconds.
|

Karash Amerius
Sutoka
122
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 15:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
While the idea is already stated rough around the edges...I see merit in it. Why not use bridging effects while built into the fleet system? Seems elegant to me, but people would have to retrain themselves during large fleet ops obviously.
The 'more work' part is just getting everyone in the fleet in the correct position. That could be a hassle. How about we set up macros or presets for pilots that join a fleet, they can request a certain Wing - Squad slot? This would be under fleet preferences. if the slot isn't available it tries to at least put you in the wing somewhere.
Now to the issue of "putting a 25b ship on the field with no support"...I think that is a bit silly. Your support would be bridging with you. Capitals would not HAVE to be allowed to tether bridge each other, they can use the same cyno to jump themselves (range issues would have to be tweaked).
Overall, I think the idea has merit and it would be a shame if more people did not put the anvil and hammer to this and work out the details. Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka |

Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel Gank for Profit
42
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 18:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
titans and blackops only and no tethering of capitals they have a jumpdrive of their own
force projection is one of the most broken things in eve right now Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
|

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1360
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 19:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
Karash Amerius wrote:While the idea is already stated rough around the edges...I see merit in it. Why not use bridging effects while built into the fleet system? Seems elegant to me, but people would have to retrain themselves during large fleet ops obviously.
The 'more work' part is just getting everyone in the fleet in the correct position. That could be a hassle. How about we set up macros or presets for pilots that join a fleet, they can request a certain Wing - Squad slot? This would be under fleet preferences. if the slot isn't available it tries to at least put you in the wing somewhere.
Now to the issue of "putting a 25b ship on the field with no support"...I think that is a bit silly. Your support would be bridging with you. Capitals would not HAVE to be allowed to tether bridge each other, they can use the same cyno to jump themselves (range issues would have to be tweaked).
Overall, I think the idea has merit and it would be a shame if more people did not put the anvil and hammer to this and work out the details. Which capital ship has a jump range smaller than 3.5LY? Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |

Ender Wiggan
The Scope Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 19:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dark Drifter wrote: tethering a full fleet/wing/squad will not empty the fuel bay just add a delay timer for jumping/tethering. say 60-120 sec for a (supa)cap to jump out. 5-10 min for one to tether jump again (reducable with a skill).
This is definitely one way you could force the deployers to be vulnerable. Alternatively you could have tether-jumping drain a huge amount of cap (~80%).
I personally like the idea of making it a range-quantity-fuel relationship as it brings the logistical nature of fuel into a deployment. Imagine if you're going for it, your fleet is dropping in hot, max distance to respond to a threat at the edge of your space. You cyno in and out-riders from the opposing fleet blap your fuel transports before you can refuel. Your fleet is stuck out of position and can't respond to a timed attack on a second front until fuel gets here, spool up a carrier tether-jump with 9 fuel transports and bring them in, can the outriders keep you there by killing the fuel again? Who knows? It's exciting and tactical though. |

M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
198
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 19:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
I like the idea except for Carriers being able to jump ships.
I think it should be limited to Titans and BLOPs only, since they are the ships able to bridge things now, and it should remain as such.
I like it, it doesn't remove Titans from the game, but it also adds a level of risk to bridging fleets with Titans. If the bridging Titan wants to reduce risk, it could jump into a neighboring system, but then the fleet has to jump at least one gate, giving the fleet previously on field a chance to set up a camp.
Its a good idea, +1. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |

Luc Chastot
Daktaklakpak.
431
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 19:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
Still trying to find any downsides to this that can't be fixed. The idea is very sound. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4398
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 20:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Luc Chastot wrote:Still trying to find any downsides to this that can't be fixed. The idea is very sound. I agree, very nice proposal.
I would suggest that Black Ops have a lower limit of tethered ships, say 4 or 5 tops.
The reason being is that:
1: Black Ops are less powerful that cap ships and should not be able to take as many with them.
2: More importantly it places a larger emphasis on actually NEEDING the combat capabilities of the Black OPS BS in the majority of encounters... indeed you will probably want to send several if the target system is active.
This would bring Black Ops battleships into much more common active use in combat, instead of simply used as a taxi service. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |

Ender Wiggan
The Scope Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 20:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Luc Chastot wrote:Still trying to find any downsides to this that can't be fixed. The idea is very sound. I agree, very nice proposal. I would suggest that Black Ops have a lower limit of tethered ships, say 4 or 5 tops. The reason being is that: 1: Black Ops are less powerful that cap ships and should not be able to take as many with them. 2: More importantly it places a larger emphasis on actually NEEDING the combat capabilities of the Black OPS BS in the majority of encounters... indeed you will probably want to send several if the target system is active. This would bring Black Ops battleships into much more common active use in combat, instead of simply used as a taxi service.
Hi Ranger, I agree with your logic, anything that gets black ops on the field more is great. Can you think of a way to fit that into the "squad range" vs. "wing range" vs. "fleet range" mechanic?
I guess one alternative is to make it a pure numbers check. The only thing with that is potentially you get this cluster **** situation where 249 peeps are all trying to tether to the say the same carrier or super-carrier and having to re-try when they get rejected. It's not that big a deal, especially if the tether range is 10 or even 15km from the ship. It's likely that you'd just clump the tether-jumpers up and have the fleet orbit the jumpers at say 5km, then you can reach any tether-jumper pretty quickly.
|

Silent Rambo
Legion of Seven
27
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 21:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
+1
This is cool. Id love to see carriers and other capital ships be able to take people with them other then just the Titan. Pretty sure I read this, but making a capital incapable of tethering other capitals to it would be wise. |

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4399
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 21:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ender Wiggan wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Luc Chastot wrote:Still trying to find any downsides to this that can't be fixed. The idea is very sound. I agree, very nice proposal. I would suggest that Black Ops have a lower limit of tethered ships, say 4 or 5 tops. The reason being is that: 1: Black Ops are less powerful that cap ships and should not be able to take as many with them. 2: More importantly it places a larger emphasis on actually NEEDING the combat capabilities of the Black OPS BS in the majority of encounters... indeed you will probably want to send several if the target system is active. This would bring Black Ops battleships into much more common active use in combat, instead of simply used as a taxi service. Hi Ranger, I agree with your logic, anything that gets black ops on the field more is great. Can you think of a way to fit that into the "squad range" vs. "wing range" vs. "fleet range" mechanic? I guess one alternative is to make it a pure numbers check. The only thing with that is potentially you get this cluster **** situation where 249 peeps are all trying to tether to the say the same carrier or super-carrier and having to re-try when they get rejected. It's not that big a deal, especially if the tether range is 10 or even 15km from the ship. It's likely that you'd just clump the tether-jumpers up and have the fleet orbit the jumpers at say 5km, then you can reach any tether-jumper pretty quickly. Yeah, it kind of all depends on if that aspect of the mechanic ends up being as proposed or not. They could base things off of mass (like a wormhole) or a certain number based on ship class (1 BS = 2 cruisers = 4 destroyers = 8 frigates... or any combination of the above up to the total amount your ship is rated for), or any number of other ways.
However it goes it would be fairly transparent to the fleet members. They simply try to tether, and are either successful or not and are notified of such.
To the members of this thread in general, ease of power projection is a big issue in EVE. Things need to be toned down a bit. As counter intuitive as it may seem, making fleet movements more difficult would actually inspire more serious conflicts in EVE, because if you are going to move major assets into battle you will now need to be serious about it. Less "play fighting" and more "serious business"... not to mention encouraging folks to actually occupy the area's they control. If you aren't in the right position for defense, you may not be able to move those large defensive fleets into position nearly as easily as you can today. You could easily find your capital assets and support fleet fighting a desperate holding action until the bulk of your reinforcements arrive via conventional gate travel.
Easy fleet movements trivialize combat, whether by making their normal staging areas unimportant, or making the ability to effectively engage (and far more importantly, the ability to retreat at will) far too easy.
Your decisions should matter, and have potentially serious consequences. Likewise cynoing in a fleet should have advantages (as they do now) but also draw backs that need to be considered. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |

suid0
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
37
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 21:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ender Wiggan wrote: Once again, that's what we're endeavoring to do. We want to force supers be a physical part of a deployment. We also want reinforcement to be difficult. We don't want to it to be easy to do the logistics required to shift vast quantities of people across light years. Spatial location of fleets should be important as opposed to the compressed nature of space that results from easy-access bridging.
So what you're really looking for are ways to make your space safer.
By making invasion even more annoying and pain staking than it currently is your space is safe because people just wont bother.
|

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4399
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 21:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
suid0 wrote:Ender Wiggan wrote: Once again, that's what we're endeavoring to do. We want to force supers be a physical part of a deployment. We also want reinforcement to be difficult. We don't want to it to be easy to do the logistics required to shift vast quantities of people across light years. Spatial location of fleets should be important as opposed to the compressed nature of space that results from easy-access bridging.
So what you're really looking for are ways to make your space safer. By making invasion even more annoying and pain staking than it currently is your space is safe because people just wont bother. Except that if this were done (hopefully in conjunction with a similar revamp of jump bridge mechanics) it would make defense more difficult as well.
Currently it is a trivial matter to cyno in a large defense fleet without the need of even risking your capital assets. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |

Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2151
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 21:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ender Wiggan wrote:Final word I can't claim this idea as mine. That honour goes to redditor Acidictadpole who posted the first reference to it in the comments at TheMittani.com
Also, this idea doesn't do anything to address the sheer power of super-capitals. It is still possible for dominant coalitions to effect risk-free deployments with an overwhelming show of force on jump in. The only difference is, now that alliance or coalition is required to show force for that 'risk-free' deployment. It is possible someone has suggested this before I did.
Posted June 18th of this year. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3223206#post3223206
Copy and pasted here: The mechanics of this are not terribly difficult, just need to be adapted.
EDIT: Add in specified 2,000 meter range for this mooring line, I was thinking it in my head but saw I did not spell it out.
By docking to the carrier, the game will just depict a mooring line running between the ship and the carrier. (It doesn't need to be displayed as a space object, just listed like an effect above the capacitor the same way being webbed is, etc.)
If you move or direct your ship to leave or log out, the mooring line is released.
If the carrier jumps, your ship and you go with it.
Why does this work, when the previous problems existed in the past? Because the mooring line actually represents a standing command to jump-bridge, just like pilots using a titan or blops bridge need to click on the graphic. The mass of the ship is added to the carrier's, for fuel use calculation.
The mooring lines can be left in place after the jump, in the event it is a multiple jump event, or released so the individual pilots can go on their merry way.
Does this make carriers OP? No, in fact it places them at risk. The carrier lands in the target system with the other ships, unlike the Titan or BLOPs which stay safely at the starting point / staging area. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |

suid0
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
37
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 21:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:suid0 wrote:Ender Wiggan wrote: Once again, that's what we're endeavoring to do. We want to force supers be a physical part of a deployment. We also want reinforcement to be difficult. We don't want to it to be easy to do the logistics required to shift vast quantities of people across light years. Spatial location of fleets should be important as opposed to the compressed nature of space that results from easy-access bridging.
So what you're really looking for are ways to make your space safer. By making invasion even more annoying and pain staking than it currently is your space is safe because people just wont bother. Except that if this were done (hopefully in conjunction with a similar revamp of jump bridge mechanics) it would make defense more difficult as well. Currently it is a trivial matter to cyno in a large defense fleet without the need of even risking your capital assets.
So yeah, if you don't also nerf jump bridges into the ground then iis massively overpowered for the defender, they can reinforce easily with 0 risk. GG, you've just made null even more stagnant.
And how do you do a similar jump bridge revamp? make the tower also jump to dest? it's such a terrible idea to a non-problem. |

Ersahi Kir
The Eminence Front SpaceMonkey's Alliance
228
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 21:45:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mascha Tzash wrote:JD No7 wrote:Really like this idea. Needs some working on, but really fixes hot-dropping etc.
Carriers limited to 1 gang seems steep though. Make it fleet for any tethering and tie in a fuel cost based on mass or ship size, meaning a carrier cold tether 30 cruisers or 15 BCs but a Mship would be needed for a BS fleet. Mass as a single limiting factor would put shield ships in favor over armor ships. Using a factor like singature/mass could level it.
So you suggest that basing it off mass is biased against armor ships, and then suggest that basing it off signature would be better. |

Ender Wiggan
The Scope Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 22:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
suid0 wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:suid0 wrote:Ender Wiggan wrote: Once again, that's what we're endeavoring to do. We want to force supers be a physical part of a deployment. We also want reinforcement to be difficult. We don't want to it to be easy to do the logistics required to shift vast quantities of people across light years. Spatial location of fleets should be important as opposed to the compressed nature of space that results from easy-access bridging.
So what you're really looking for are ways to make your space safer. By making invasion even more annoying and pain staking than it currently is your space is safe because people just wont bother. Except that if this were done (hopefully in conjunction with a similar revamp of jump bridge mechanics) it would make defense more difficult as well. Currently it is a trivial matter to cyno in a large defense fleet without the need of even risking your capital assets. So yeah, if you don't also nerf jump bridges into the ground then iis massively overpowered for the defender, they can reinforce easily with 0 risk. GG, you've just made null even more stagnant. And how do you do a similar jump bridge revamp? make the tower also jump to dest? it's such a terrible idea to a non-problem.
That's a good criticism. Perhaps you could address it by making a jump bridge a weak enough target that a moderate sized gang can quickly incap one (say ~15-20k aggregate DPS incaps in 5 minutes). Then a roaming gang could snap the link allowing time for a fleet to start a siege.
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Alundil
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
234
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Posted - 2013.07.25 22:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
Very nice proposal. Shield/Armor mass considerations aside this has merit. I'd look into that, as well as the idea that jumping (tethering) a fleet would drain dry the bay of the ship. I think it ought to leave enough fuel for the tethering ship to get out at least (cap not withstanding). It succeeds in placing them in the hostile system and that's a 1000% improvement over current state
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