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David Devant
CTRL-Q
Iron Oxide.
100
   |
Posted - 2013.08.06 13:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
Onictus wrote:
Its not the drones, or even the Domi, its the assist mechanic.
This must be the case really. Immune to ewar, perfect alpha, big ehp. And other sentry boats are really pretty decent as well lets not forget. What's really fun about this is that nobody realised that this was doable earlier. You think everything's been done in this game, and lo and behold an i-win button has been sat there for years. |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
394
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 13:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
David Devant wrote:Onictus wrote:
Its not the drones, or even the Domi, its the assist mechanic.
This must be the case really. Immune to ewar, perfect alpha, big ehp. And other sentry boats are really pretty decent as well lets not forget. What's really fun about this is that nobody realised that this was doable earlier. You think everything's been done in this game, and lo and behold an i-win button has been sat there for years.
Maybe it is time for your self to take history lesions because before drone dmg amp domi would do anemic 450 sentry dmg.
And now it does 800 multiply that with 10 ppl add sick tracking and start notice the difference and holes in your theory.
http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise
Fatal Ascension
398
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 13:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
Yeah it have nothing to do with 90km opti gardes with tracking pwning every large(short range) gun out there.
If you can tank the sentries who cares how the track?
Pro-Tip you thing that is bad, put bouncers and wardens in and see what they actually do.
David Devant wrote:Onictus wrote:
Its not the drones, or even the Domi, its the assist mechanic.
This must be the case really. Immune to ewar, perfect alpha, big ehp. And other sentry boats are really pretty decent as well lets not forget. What's really fun about this is that nobody realised that this was doable earlier. You think everything's been done in this game, and lo and behold an i-win button has been sat there for years.
Not really, PL used Ishtars against us in -A- during XIX's eviction, likewise when CFC was booting NC. out of Tribute, BL used sentry ishtars against a CFC a couple times.
Panic geddons were built with the idea of dropping 5 sentries as well, it wasn't worth it to the point that you were using link augmentors or omnis, but they had a full rack of sentries onboard.
Its not a new idea, its just a LOT more effective. |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
394
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 13:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:
Yeah it have nothing to do with 90km opti gardes with tracking pwning every large(short range) gun out there.
If you can tank the sentries who cares how the track? Pro-Tip you thing that is bad, put bouncers and wardens in and see what they actually do.
In that case i am all for giving all guns 90k optimals and superior tracking because it don't rly matter right?
http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise
Fatal Ascension
398
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 14:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:Onictus wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:
Yeah it have nothing to do with 90km opti gardes with tracking pwning every large(short range) gun out there.
If you can tank the sentries who cares how the track? Pro-Tip you thing that is bad, put bouncers and wardens in and see what they actually do. In that case i am all for giving all guns 90k optimals and superior tracking because it don't rly matter right?
Correct it really doesn't.
Of yo know they are bringing 10 domi's, bring smartbombs.
I've spent the last three months nuking sentry fleet after sentry fleet. |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
394
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 14:10:00 -
[36] - Quote
well they can always be stupid and allow you get close but ppl being stupid isn't what going on here domi being OP is.
http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
|
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise
Fatal Ascension
398
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 14:15:00 -
[37] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:well they can always be stupid and allow you get close but ppl being stupid isn't what going on here domi being OP is.
No really park a few geddons with smartbombs on top of the sentry cloud, geddon has a better tank AND drones, AND neuts, and smartbombs. If you have a couple smartbomb BSs in a domi herd, they are effectively neutered, they drop drones...pop, they don't drop drones, they have no DPS.
The best they can do is annoy you with target breakers.....which your drones ignore I may add.
Not to mention there is this nifty thing called a MJD, it says "**** you and the slow battleship approach." |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
394
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 14:23:00 -
[38] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:well they can always be stupid and allow you get close but ppl being stupid isn't what going on here domi being OP is. No really park a few geddons with smartbombs on top of the sentry cloud, geddon has a better tank AND drones, AND neuts, and smartbombs. If you have a couple smartbomb BSs in a domi herd, they are effectively neutered, they drop drones...pop, they don't drop drones, they have no DPS. The best they can do is annoy you with target breakers.....which your drones ignore I may add. Not to mention there is this nifty thing called a MJD, it says "**** you and the slow battleship approach." For reference we just won a war against guys that were using ALL drone doctrines, up to and including slowcats, you think domi's are bad? Go after 150 carriers dropping at least 9 a sentries a pop and spider tanking with capital reps. I have.
That is all great and situational and i am not here to discuss that with you..point is domi is bargain for a buck it perform that well you can see it in every aspect of eve to the point that whole meta game is changing.
Dominated tourny go to ship for pve numerous usage in pvp for literally no effort nor trade ins.
edit
I am not saying it doesn't have counter mechanic i am saying it is too easy and usable on everything.
http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise
Fatal Ascension
399
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 14:27:00 -
[39] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:Onictus wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:well they can always be stupid and allow you get close but ppl being stupid isn't what going on here domi being OP is. No really park a few geddons with smartbombs on top of the sentry cloud, geddon has a better tank AND drones, AND neuts, and smartbombs. If you have a couple smartbomb BSs in a domi herd, they are effectively neutered, they drop drones...pop, they don't drop drones, they have no DPS. The best they can do is annoy you with target breakers.....which your drones ignore I may add. Not to mention there is this nifty thing called a MJD, it says "**** you and the slow battleship approach." For reference we just won a war against guys that were using ALL drone doctrines, up to and including slowcats, you think domi's are bad? Go after 150 carriers dropping at least 9 a sentries a pop and spider tanking with capital reps. I have. That is all great and situational and i am not here to discuss that with you..point is domi is bargain for a buck it perform that well you can see it in every aspect of eve to the point that whole meta game is changing. Dominated tourny go to ship for pve numerous usage in pvp for literally no effort nor trade ins. edit I am not saying it doesn't have counter mechanic i am saying it is too easy and usable on everything.
The tounement is not Traquility. Like I said, I've spent the last three month busting up sentry fleets.
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Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
6956
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 14:54:00 -
[40] - Quote
Actually I believe this anti-frig sentry option only applies to the ships with Drone Tracking bonuses. I tell you now my Vindi's Curators can't hit a frig. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise
Fatal Ascension
400
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 16:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
Buhhdust Princess wrote:Actually I believe this anti-frig sentry option only applies to the ships with Drone Tracking bonuses. I tell you now my Vindi's Curators can't hit a frig.
My old pre-DDA domis had no issue popping frigs, it also had two Omnis on it. The elite frigs might get under them, but that is relatively rare. |
Darth Khasei
Wavestar Business Ventures Inc.
112
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 16:42:00 -
[42] - Quote
Respect. 
The AT XI was a brilliant and thrilling success and the best since I came to the game in 2009.
As expected AT members come to the forums to lobby for changes to ships, modules, game mechanics etc.. on Tranquility based off of AT arena conditions.
The conditions in the AT arena are NOT the same as Tranqulity and was extremely pleased to hear the devs openly state the same many times during the broadcast.
They also mentioned the counter strategy to the AT arena Domi setup many times...so WAI.
TQ Domi's will remain untouched as they should be.
Carry On.
FULL DISCLOSURE: Yes I sell Domi's. |
Bigg Gun
Flying Bags Inc.
Bulgarian Space Federation
31
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 13:28:00 -
[43] - Quote
the new ishtar/eos will be getting 7.5% bonus to sentry tracking only (I think) so maybe devs do think domi bonus is a bit much. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
145
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 14:28:00 -
[44] - Quote
Imo the issue lies with 'assign drones', more atleast compared to the domi itself. Sentry Drones are indeed great and blap mostly anything small under unusual circumstances (was quite amazed to have my talwar popped by a domi at 30, while mwd'ing at around a 50-¦+ angle).
But it would be nice if either that assign drone-command could be looked up in the future or they'd toy around with other stats of those sentries, like signature resolution.
I only correct my own spelling. |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
422
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 14:39:00 -
[45] - Quote
Senties need to be looked at anyway, you have range + damage type and amount differances inbetween them, doesnt rly makes any sence. As of this problem, its a combination of several factors. Boosting, Sentry range, Assisting ect ect, no point rly discussing it as ccp doesnt rly listen anyway.
CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS
[url]http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9679/whatihavedoneineve.jpg[/url] |
GTC Onzo
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 17:06:00 -
[46] - Quote
The only thing broken is the assist command.
It's widely abused for carriers assigning drones to assist in anoms as well while carrier stays relatively safed up. |
Bigg Gun
Flying Bags Inc.
Bulgarian Space Federation
31
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 18:05:00 -
[47] - Quote
I bet the vargur with 3 tracking comps can blap inties at 80 also. I don't know - domi irl seems so fragile. You bomb it it's toothless. it has 750 drone damage but that's nothing compared to most other BS. No boni to any other gun, so basically you can put AC's or blasters or even artillery and unless you wanna reduce the drone dps or compromise tank or midslots you're basically wasting money cause the unbonused guns do nothing worth writing home about. I think it's pretty good balanced ship. And yeah you train stealth bomber and voila, toothless domis. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
152
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 20:40:00 -
[48] - Quote
DHB WildCat wrote:
Keep all ships the same, the bonuses are fine and tbh everything works "EXCEPT" sentry drones. We need to nerf the tracking on sentry drones. Yes just the tracking, the range is fine, the damage amount is fine.
This would prevent BC's and BS's from insta killing tacklers / logis without having tackle of their own. And it also allows good frigate pilots that keep there transveral up to stay alive.
Couple things:
Yeah that's a bit broken probably. Maybe.
Garde's have always had excellent tracking, balanced by ****** range.
Non-Garde's have ****** tracking
Garde's haven't been changed at all, only the domi has changed, nerfing sentry drones is not the correct solution, as it would basically screw them over in all other instances, instances where their performance hasn't changed a bit. Ishtar is getting a 7.5% bonus.
Fighting is Magic |
Ying Taishu
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 07:15:00 -
[49] - Quote
Calling for nerfs is lame.
Other than that, what one seems to forget is that you don't carry your sentries with you the same way you carry your guns. They are cool if you hold the ground against incoming fleet.
I'm just glad I'm Gallente, been waiting for this since 2004 ;) |
Darling Hassasin
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 11:02:00 -
[50] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Malcanis wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:You seriously want to nerf an entire weapon system because ONE hull kicks ass with it?
Seriously?
Edit: And at what range was this? I was under the impression that angular velocity was more use and burning sideways at long range was basically worthless. "Burning sideways" is exactly how to maximise angular velocity. The "sideways" component of your movement is the angular velocity. I did the math on it: A stationary Dominix with Garde IIs, triple omni and triple drone damage mod doing 750 DPS
against
an orbiting Ares doing 4138 m/s with a signature of 78.8m. At 90km will it get hit with 650 DPS (90% hit'n'miss chance). At 50km it is 450 DPS (70% hit'n'miss chance). At 30km it is 206 DPS (37% hit'n'miss chance). At 20km it is 65 DPS (10% hit'n'miss chance). So basically, if the Interceptor is not already on top of the Garde IIs and orbiting perfectly at maximum velocity will it get shot.
That 65 dps at 20kms is really the scariest data I have seen in a while and I am not being sarcastic... |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise
Fatal Ascension
404
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 13:24:00 -
[51] - Quote
GTC Onzo wrote:The only thing broken is the assist command.
It's widely abused for carriers assigning drones to assist in anoms as well while carrier stays relatively safed up.
That is assisting fighters and its considerably different. |
GreenSeed
625
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 14:21:00 -
[52] - Quote
DHB WildCat wrote:That Seems Legit wrote:Every year after the tourneys its the same damn thing. You'd think a member from an alliance that made it to the finals would know that what works in tourney doesnt work in tq. This is an actual broken mechanic though. They nerfed webs, tracking on gun, missile damage application so that BC's and Battleships couldnt kill frigs easily on their own. Its just time now that sentries fell into line as well. Since they use 25 bandwidth they are considered "Large" Sized weapons and as such should not be able to hit a non tackled frigate that has transversal.
at what distance?
gardes can hit up to 80km with 3x omnilinks, if you are sitting at 70km flying at 4kms you might as well be flying at 0ms.
but that brings the issue of "why the hell are gardes hitting up to 80km!?"
tracking is not the issue here, range is.
sentries were fine, and are fine still now. a domi pilot would have to drop long range sentries like curators and blap stuff at a distance with reduced alpha and tracking, and then swap to gardes at close range and web or hope for your angular speed to drop. (transversal means crap if its not considered along with distance.) or just be smart and release the lights/meds.
why would anyone ever use anything but gardes now? its not just about the fact that they are great on their own, also consider that to use the next sentries on the line you need FOUR drone link augmentors AND a sebo! thats insane, and lets not even talk about the wardens... you need all the high filled with drone control range and 2 sebos... wtf. 
i guess the idea of the buff was to allow the domi to use nothing but their own racial sentries, but that just dumbs down pve and makes situations like the AT just silly... watching two domi teams blap all the support off the field leaving on grid only the domis and maybe links and a logi, and then proceed to shoot at each other hoping one will kill the other faster is just silly..
but then again when will this happen on TQ? i remember seeing Gila gatecamps when the drone mods were introduced, all they did was drop curators, assign to tackle. and blap away. but that lasted weeks at most, people found just how bad the idea was as soon as force recons started to uncloak next to the gilas and wtfpwn the whole fleet. the same thing can be said about domis, except at bs size, capchained and spider tanking, they can be really hard to kill with raw dps.
but to confuse them with slowcats is just plain silly, domis have WAY more weaknesses, smaller drone bay, supid weakness to void bombs or just plain spread cap warfare. one single geddon can break the whole cap chain in a few cycles if already strained from repping. ( i managed to do this with a pilgrim with 2 meds and one small neut. granted, the herd was small and the dudes flying them were ********.)
but i have to agree that the ship is a little overpowered for a 150m hull, it can carry answers to anything. maybe changing the range bonus for 5% tracking/5% damage (making the total per level 15% damage) or simply making it 10% drone damage 10% drone speeed 25% drone durability per level. to shift the meta from sentries back to standard combat drones.
the point is, nerfing sentries would severely nerf Gilas, Ishtars, Nvexs, and just about anything that uses sentries "in the old way", even battleships like the machariel would hurt on pve.
oh, i was typing this, about to hit send and saw this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=267256
they are changing the domi bonus.
Spoilers: it stays nearly the same. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
1452
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 15:07:00 -
[53] - Quote
Tears are the cause of all nerfs, legit or not. THAT is the horse-crap of this thing...
"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
11197
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 15:13:00 -
[54] - Quote
That bonus really was just a little too good though. 7.5%/level to range and tracking is still an extremely powerful bonus.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
395
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:32:00 -
[55] - Quote
"gardes can hit up to 80km with 3x omnilinks, if you are sitting at 70km flying at 4kms you might as well be flying at 0ms."
Didn't you hear it doesn't matter how long or how hard they can hit you just need to be pro and its all good!!
http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
|
Solutio Letum
Terpene Conglomerate
160
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 17:24:00 -
[56] - Quote
Sentry boats cant even more to cancel there traversal. |
Phaade
Debitum Naturae
WHY so Seri0Us
32
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 18:10:00 -
[57] - Quote
I'm tired of the tards who come into a forum and say "you want something (that is clearly overpowered) nerfed only because you lost!"
DERP
Sentry drone tracking should be in line with large turret tracking. Period. If it can put out close to the same damage as large's, why in the world should it be able to track 10x better. Makes no sense. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise
Fatal Ascension
404
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 18:13:00 -
[58] - Quote
Phaade wrote:I'm tired of the tards who come into a forum and say "you want something (that is clearly overpowered) nerfed only because you lost!"
DERP
Sentry drone tracking should be in line with large turret tracking. Period. If it can put out close to the same damage as large's, why in the world should it be able to track 10x better. Makes no sense.
Bombs, smart bombs, the only way to reload being to scoop from space....in a battleship mind you, can't move,....need I go on. |
mama guru
Thundercats
The Initiative.
143
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 19:20:00 -
[59] - Quote
The bonus needs to stay untill drones are actually fixed, how about that. Now bring a logi next time you want to beat PL in the finals garmon.
______
EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak. |
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos
172
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 19:46:00 -
[60] - Quote
 welp - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=267256
I HOPE YOU"RE ALL ******* SATISFIED NOW THAT YOUR WHINES ABOUT DOMI USE IN THE AT RESULTED IN THIS!
nm, I'm sure you are. But hey, it reminds me of the nerf and scripting of damps. Or, oh oh, how fast and for the same reason those Drakes and HMs got nerfed. Damn you alliance tournaments, you always expose years of tranquility dominance for Gallente ships. :shakes fist: |
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