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DHB WildCat
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
240
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Posted - 2013.08.06 00:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Now that the tourney is over and anyone that didnt know before, now knows.......
A dominix with triple omnis and a load of curators can and will blap with perfect tracking an mwd interceptor with claymore bonuses doing over 4k/sec.
This is broken on so many levels.
Now I am not necessarilly saying that its the domi that needs to be fixed. All ships fit with omnis and capable of launching sentries can and will destroy the smallest fastest ships in eve with out needing any tackle.
My proposal.......
Keep all ships the same, the bonuses are fine and tbh everything works "EXCEPT" sentry drones. We need to nerf the tracking on sentry drones. Yes just the tracking, the range is fine, the damage amount is fine. This would prevent BC's and BS's from insta killing tacklers / logis without having tackle of their own.
Wild |

Donbe Scurred
University of Caille Gallente Federation
89
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Posted - 2013.08.06 00:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
AT = in game EVE PVP? |

Whitehound
1776
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Posted - 2013.08.06 00:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
No. You lost and PL won. We all saw it. 
Though I think you are right. It is a bit OP. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |

Tauranon
Weeesearch
215
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Posted - 2013.08.06 00:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
It learns to fly bombers or it gets the gardes again.
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That Seems Legit
State War Academy Caldari State
48
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Posted - 2013.08.06 00:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Every year after the tourneys its the same damn thing. You'd think a member from an alliance that made it to the finals would know that what works in tourney doesnt work in tq. |

DHB WildCat
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
240
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Posted - 2013.08.06 02:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
That Seems Legit wrote:Every year after the tourneys its the same damn thing. You'd think a member from an alliance that made it to the finals would know that what works in tourney doesnt work in tq.
This is an actual broken mechanic though. They nerfed webs, tracking on gun, missile damage application so that BC's and Battleships couldnt kill frigs easily on their own. Its just time now that sentries fell into line as well. Since they use 25 bandwidth they are considered "Large" Sized weapons and as such should not be able to hit a non tackled frigate that has transversal. |

Rockstara
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
18
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Posted - 2013.08.06 02:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
I suggest we nerf PL instead. |

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
150
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Posted - 2013.08.06 02:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Someone loses and all the sudden tears fall.... "It's not fair!"
They lost because something in the game being OP and absolutely nothing to do with someone outsmarted someone else with their choice of ships, tactics and loadout. Of course that's the reason they lost!
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Tauranon
Weeesearch
215
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Posted - 2013.08.06 02:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
DHB WildCat wrote:That Seems Legit wrote:Every year after the tourneys its the same damn thing. You'd think a member from an alliance that made it to the finals would know that what works in tourney doesnt work in tq. This is an actual broken mechanic though. They nerfed webs, tracking on gun, missile damage application so that BC's and Battleships couldnt kill frigs easily on their own. Its just time now that sentries fell into line as well. Since they use 25 bandwidth they are considered "Large" Sized weapons and as such should not be able to hit a non tackled frigate that has transversal.
You cannot balance sentry drones inherent vulnerability AND ability to get themselves left behind (in some cases neutering an entire fleet) by giving them identical damage and tracking application profiles as large turrets.
IMO the only broken thing is fleet scale assist. |

Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force
168
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Posted - 2013.08.06 04:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
If you watched all of the AT you would have noticed several fights were the sentry teams were destroyed.
Stop being bad, learn how too adapt "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |
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Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
323
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Posted - 2013.08.06 07:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
You seriously want to nerf an entire weapon system because ONE hull kicks ass with it?
Seriously?
Edit: And at what range was this? I was under the impression that angular velocity was more use and burning sideways at long range was basically worthless. |

Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
3231
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Posted - 2013.08.06 07:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
lol
Of course, some people confuse clicking Approach with perfect transversal. But it's not the same thing.
Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11129
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Posted - 2013.08.06 07:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:You seriously want to nerf an entire weapon system because ONE hull kicks ass with it?
Seriously?
Edit: And at what range was this? I was under the impression that angular velocity was more use and burning sideways at long range was basically worthless.
"Burning sideways" is exactly how to maximise angular velocity. The "sideways" component of your movement is the angular velocity.
1 Kings 12:11
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Julia Rohde
Conoco. OLD MAN GANG
0
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Posted - 2013.08.06 08:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:You seriously want to nerf an entire weapon system because ONE hull kicks ass with it?
Seriously?
Edit: And at what range was this? I was under the impression that angular velocity was more use and burning sideways at long range was basically worthless. "Burning sideways" is exactly how to maximise angular velocity. The "sideways" component of your movement is the angular velocity.
Yes, but more range means less angular velocity with the same transversal. I think this is what Morrigan was saying.
Anyhow the OP is obviously correct. No other weapons system can remove tackle anywhere near as easily as curators.
target painter + curators = blap
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Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
323
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Posted - 2013.08.06 08:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
@Julia Rohde/Malcanis: Yes, burning 4k/s at 5km adds more angular than doing it at 100km - that's why BS guns cease to track at certain ranges than definite target speeds. My understanding being angular is the far more relevant mechanic (as a shooter, anyway) and the one a tackler would seek to exploit.
I'd be more concerned if this was happening at low ranges - middle field and up then it's much less clear cut (imho). |

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1282
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Posted - 2013.08.06 08:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Well we found out in our AT practices that trying to keep support alive against domi's is basically pointless and just won't work.
Garde tracking is just a bit ludicrous on those domis.. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |

Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
323
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Posted - 2013.08.06 08:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
I suppose I should add/make clearer I believe the issue to be the domi - they're too good right now IMO.
Sentries alone are rather....meh |

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
828
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Posted - 2013.08.06 10:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Why not just remove the Domi's bonus to sentry drone tracking? |

Whitehound
1777
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Posted - 2013.08.06 10:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:You seriously want to nerf an entire weapon system because ONE hull kicks ass with it?
Seriously?
Edit: And at what range was this? I was under the impression that angular velocity was more use and burning sideways at long range was basically worthless. "Burning sideways" is exactly how to maximise angular velocity. The "sideways" component of your movement is the angular velocity. I did the math on it.
A stationary Dominix with Garde IIs, triple omni and triple drone damage mod doing 750 DPS
against
an orbiting Ares doing 4138 m/s with a signature of 78.8m.
At 90km will it get hit with 650 DPS (90% hit'n'miss chance). At 50km it is 450 DPS (70% hit'n'miss chance). At 30km it is 206 DPS (37% hit'n'miss chance). At 20km is it 65 DPS (10% hit'n'miss chance).
So basically, if the Interceptor is not already on top of the Garde IIs and orbiting perfectly at maximum velocity will it get shot. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |

Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
323
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Posted - 2013.08.06 12:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
For the sakes of an open comparison - how long does the Domi take to lock the ares and how much ground can it cover in that lock time?
Also we should consider that, if tackle gets under the sentries, the Domi/$DRONE_BOAT loses nearly all their DPS in it's removal - other hulls have hobgobs as ancillary peelers for things like this at no compromise to main DPS.
Cards on the table I really dont have a dog in this fight, but we should look at all angles for balancing. |
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1081
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Posted - 2013.08.06 12:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
"Happened before, will happen again"
Sentry Domis in the past were already used by some known guys at that time, many changes occurred since then to the point those were not viable anymore but since these new modules addition and Drone ship bonus changes they will quite soon enough replace major alliances fleets doctrines because defensive strategies are quite easy to set and because this setup is very very difficult to counter (Doom portal requires experienced players doing it and the numbers/logistics to achieve it)
All hail drone fleets camping and ganking everything and everyone. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |

Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
3234
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Posted - 2013.08.06 12:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
The Era of Total Gallente Domination has begun
I've been training for it since day 0
muahahaha
Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude. |

Voith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
141
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Posted - 2013.08.06 13:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:For the sakes of an open comparison - how long does the Domi take to lock the ares and how much ground can it cover in that lock time?
Also we should consider that, if tackle gets under the sentries, the Domi/$DRONE_BOAT loses nearly all their DPS in it's removal - other hulls have hobgobs as ancillary peelers for things like this at no compromise to main DPS.
Cards on the table I really dont have a dog in this fight, but we should look at all angles for balancing. You can assign drones to avoid this.
|

Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
394
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Posted - 2013.08.06 13:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dominix in its current form is over buffed along with every other gall battleship that one is obvious as day is.
One can effortlessly make domi work amazing. http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1285
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Posted - 2013.08.06 13:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Malcanis wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:You seriously want to nerf an entire weapon system because ONE hull kicks ass with it?
Seriously?
Edit: And at what range was this? I was under the impression that angular velocity was more use and burning sideways at long range was basically worthless. "Burning sideways" is exactly how to maximise angular velocity. The "sideways" component of your movement is the angular velocity. I did the math on it: A stationary Dominix with Garde IIs, triple omni and triple drone damage mod doing 750 DPS
against
an orbiting Ares doing 4138 m/s with a signature of 78.8m. At 90km will it get hit with 650 DPS (90% hit'n'miss chance). At 50km it is 450 DPS (70% hit'n'miss chance). At 30km it is 206 DPS (37% hit'n'miss chance). At 20km it is 65 DPS (10% hit'n'miss chance). So basically, if the Interceptor is not already on top of the Garde IIs and orbiting perfectly at maximum velocity will it get shot.
against three Domi' you CAN get in from 90km, i did it in practice a few times. But you have to be really ******* conservative with your approach angle and its quite hard to do.. I think i died more than half the time i tried it.
BYDI recruitment closed-ish |

Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
398
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Posted - 2013.08.06 13:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:For the sakes of an open comparison - how long does the Domi take to lock the ares and how much ground can it cover in that lock time?
Also we should consider that, if tackle gets under the sentries, the Domi/$DRONE_BOAT loses nearly all their DPS in it's removal - other hulls have hobgobs as ancillary peelers for things like this at no compromise to main DPS.
Cards on the table I really dont have a dog in this fight, but we should look at all angles for balancing.
Assuming no SeBo's active a normal sheidl MWD ceptor (100m sig) takes around 12 seconds to lock with a Domi, that is with Sig Analysis V. Considering that ceptor should running at least 4,800m/s without heat you are talking 56-58km.
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1082
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 13:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
Roime wrote:The Era of Total Gallente Domination has begun
I've been training for it since day 0
muahahaha
Same here and not complaining but since them trained for all races equally so doesn't matter which is the newt op thing, I'll be flying it anyway  *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |

Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
3236
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Posted - 2013.08.06 13:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
I've been super happy with Gallente since blaster buff and DDAs, now I'm just enjoying the tears :D
Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude. |

Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
398
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 13:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:"Happened before, will happen again"
Sentry Domis in the past were already used by some known guys at that time, many changes occurred since then to the point those were not viable anymore but since these new modules addition and Drone ship bonus changes they will quite soon enough replace major alliances fleets doctrines because defensive strategies are quite easy to set and because this setup is very very difficult to counter (Doom portal requires experienced players doing it and the numbers/logistics to achieve it)
All hail drone fleets camping and ganking everything and everyone.
Its not the drones, or even the Domi, its the assist mechanic.
In a small gang where everyone locks everyone annyway, you don't know when you are going to get hit, and in a fleet you STILL don't know when you are going to get hit, you just have to filter the overview looking for fast lockers with long range....otherwise you get hit with 500+ sentries all at once and there aren't time for armor reps to land between volleys. |

Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
394
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 13:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:"Happened before, will happen again"
Sentry Domis in the past were already used by some known guys at that time, many changes occurred since then to the point those were not viable anymore but since these new modules addition and Drone ship bonus changes they will quite soon enough replace major alliances fleets doctrines because defensive strategies are quite easy to set and because this setup is very very difficult to counter (Doom portal requires experienced players doing it and the numbers/logistics to achieve it)
All hail drone fleets camping and ganking everything and everyone. Its not the drones, or even the Domi, its the assist mechanic. In a small gang where everyone locks everyone annyway, you don't know when you are going to get hit, and in a fleet you STILL don't know when you are going to get hit, you just have to filter the overview looking for fast lockers with long range....otherwise you get hit with 500+ sentries all at once and there isn't time for armor reps to land between volleys.
Yeah it have nothing to do with 90km opti gardes with tracking pwning every large(short range) gun out there. http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
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