Machariel have single function in inc's alpha.

NM is used for high tracking tachyon platform.

Drones are useless due to fleet movement(sentry) and travel times(heavy's).

So that part of your ship will only be used when shooting tower.

Vindicators are generally considered the best dps ship for incursions. High up-in-your-face dps and WEBS, which is invaluable.

They are yes, but a fleet full of Vindis would be less effective than a fleet of long range ships. Vindis are good to have, but not too many of them.

That's why you have Machariels and Nightmares as snipers as well. Of course a fleet full of just one single ship type will be bad.

I think you're missing my point here.

7 turrets, 0.75 cycle time: 7/.75 = 9.333 effective turrets

8 turrets 1.25 damage modifier: 10 effective turrets.

3 vs 5 sentries... (if you use them)

However... 4 vs 7 mids

For an HQ, you need a MWD, and an invuln. That leaves just two slots for TCs and Sebos.
Given its weaker shield, you may want an LSE as well.

Keep in mind: TEs don't give the same range bonus that TCs do, and the tracking bonus is far less, and a NM basically has a free faction speed scripted TC with no stacking penalty.
A sig amp also don't boost sig res nearly as much as a Sebo...
3 speed scripted TCs on a NM give it awesome tracking.

Also, scorch is equivalent in DPS to IN X ray... while a tachmare pretty much always can be using IN multi or gleam

The applied gun DPS of the tachmare is higher.

The recent buff to it does make it a decent ship though. It shouldn't be too long before the Pirate BSs get rebalanced, and most are expecting buffs to everything except the mach.

Sentries are generally too situational to be used well in Incursions. You're on the move so much of the time, and loosing your sentries is going to be a huge blow on your damage.

Also having few mid slots gives you a low tank and few utility mods like Tracking Computers etc. Having ships with fleet-wide utility options like webs, TPs etc help out a lot for everyone, and applied damage is what matters.

While armor is fully doable they will always lack the damage potential from shield fits because they need to use lows for tank as well.

I think someone is mad that their navy geddon got turned down for a shiny fleet...

I do think a Navy Geddon is a decent ship, but the 8 vs 5 lows argument isn't valid for a shield fleet.

The mid slots are worth more than the low slots.
The NM has sufficient lows for 4 heat sinks and a damage control. Beyond that, a TC outperforms a TE, and a SeBo outperforms a Sigamp.

Why do you even speak of conflag? its only useful for tower bashes...

If its a TPPH your doing, you won't be launching sentries.

Fitting a cap power relay just wastes a slot, and the NM has sufficient cap stability, I run no elutriation rigs, and can get by even without a cap buddy or a NOS (lets not forget those utility highs).
I suspect you'd be better off sticking a drone damage mod there if you are going to be using sentries.

The Navy Geddon is pretty good, but I don't think its better than the NM for applying DPS in a shield fleet.

Sure, but im not talking about tracking here which is never an issue for me in a Navy Geddon anyway. Beams have much lower tracking but the Navy Geddon does not have to deal with that.

Because im trying to say that a Navy Geddon can take the roles from NM's and Machs as snipers and when sniper targets are down, switch role to short range DPS where a proper navy geddon with Conflag and T2 Gardes gets about the same DPS as the average Vindi gets from its turrets.

But i do, in the final pocket they work very well, MWD to shortrange DPS spot and launch them, effective dps on almost three full waves.

Except that the fleet would have 10k more potential short-range DPS from having pulse Navy Geddons instead of Machs and NM's which about equals an armor Moros in siege mode if i remember correct.
While its long range dps loss would only be about 2k.

Alpha is only useful when contesting which is rare, and if a mach misses it ends up spending half a minute before it becomes useful because of the slow reload. In addition you have overshooting, long reload times.

Pulses track just fine, i still dont see a point in using beams over them.

I fly a Navy Geddon, and i never use the vindi anchor, that allows me to make very good use of my sentries. I MWD to my position, launch drones and keep them out most of the time.

You don't fit TCs on a Nightmare for better tracking, you fit them for range.

Good luck hitting all those sniper targets at 130km range.... TCs on the nightmare are mostly loaded with range script so why you're talking about tracking I have no idea. Also good luck using sentries outside your drone control range...

Final pocket yes... then what about the other pockets? They don't count anymore? Even if you say "I just burn to the gate and drop sentries" you loose out on a lot of time before you are able to drop down those sentries and use them. By that time nearly all enemies should be eliminated already.



You don't really get why fleets have dps AND snipers do you? If having only dps was the most efficient way to do Incursions we would see fleets running with only dps. With over a year of experience with Incursions I think the communities knows what works and not. Why you bring in a Moros to this is beyond me. Please tell me when you last saw one doing Incursions. With Conflag and Garde II's the Navy Geddon deals a couple hundred more dps at the same range as beams do, but that range is only good for tower bashing.

Artillery weapons have high alpha by design side effect if it are capability to do massive dmg mid range, and with proper fit and fleet support they rarely miss 10 of those ships will remove instantly few ships of the field completely bypassing any tracking/transversal etc.and that happens every 14 sec.that being good for contest is side bonus what it rly does 8s removal of incoming dps asap= faster sites.

Tachyon NM is dps monster with split second select able range and hefty alpha to top it of mimicking in a way alpha doctrine further .

And Vindi with its 2600 theoretycal dps full set of sentrys and 90% webs is non replecable by any ship that exist in eve.

All of those ships do what pulse or any other fit geddon cant do alpha/range/dps.

Now what is confusing you

[quote=Cpt Tirel

I dont buy the alpha argument, Alpha is a PVP thing that is mistakenly dragged into PVE. Contests are a rarity that can be ignored.

You will very quickly see the Raven out perform the Tengu

What we need is a damage meter for proper comparison!