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Zavernus Hamarabi	Posted - 2005.12.22 19:47:00 - [1] When the t2 missle description says "-45% Bonus" to capacitor recharge rate, what does that actually mean? Im not good with double negetives. WTB Cool sig :/
lofty29	Posted - 2005.12.22 19:48:00 - [2] It means -45% to capacitor recharge rate All the supahdamage ammo does it in one way or another, I beleive the hybrid stuff removes capacitor storage.
Zavernus Hamarabi	Posted - 2005.12.22 20:10:00 - [3] Wait that almost halves the recharge rate, which is good, right? WTB Cool sig :/
Estya Nethary	Posted - 2005.12.22 20:11:00 - [4] Edited by: Estya Nethary on 22/12/2005 20:11:31 It means your Cap will recharge 45% slower, or it only recharges at 55% of its original rate... (same thing, you pick) bow EDIT:Which means... It sucks (literally)
Zavernus Hamarabi	Posted - 2005.12.22 20:31:00 - [5] Wow, that does suck. What would i have to do skill wise to counteract the cap suckage? WTB Cool sig :/
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.12.22 20:37:00 - [6] Originally by: Zavernus Hamarabi Wow, that does suck. What would i have to do skill wise to counteract the cap suckage? Wuzzitcalled Engineering and then fitting two, maybe three, Capacitor Power Relays. The language filter needs an update. Check Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams' forum for a good profanity filter
Kilpelainen	Posted - 2005.12.22 20:46:00 - [7] passive tank maybe.
thedragoon	Posted - 2005.12.22 20:46:00 - [8] RSD CCP = DEVS CHEAT AND WE PAY.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2005.12.22 20:49:00 - [9] Originally by: thedragoon RSD please don't go spamming every thread with this ------------- Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP
Zavernus Hamarabi	Posted - 2005.12.22 20:49:00 - [10] wtf is an rsd, second time >< WTB Cool sig :/
James Lyrus	Posted - 2005.12.22 20:58:00 - [11] Originally by: Zavernus Hamarabi wtf is an rsd, second time >< Remote sensor dampener. Burn Eden are upset because their uber gank tactic got nerfed, and they're realising that actually, they're not all that competent. -- Lyrus Associates is recruiting
Zavernus Hamarabi	Posted - 2005.12.22 21:00:00 - [12] I assume BURN EDEN contain only members of this quality. Thank you player, for destroying your corporation's reputation :) WTB Cool sig :/
MrMorph	Posted - 2005.12.22 21:30:00 - [13] BE member(s) seem to be totally trown over by the fact that his targets now can shoot back. Poor little dude. ----------------------------------------------
elFarto	Posted - 2005.12.22 21:32:00 - [14] Originally by: Zavernus Hamarabi When the t2 missle description says "-45% Bonus" to capacitor recharge rate, what does that actually mean? Im not good with double negetives. OK, normally the 'capacitor recharge rate bonus' attribute would decrease you cap recharge time. So if it had a value of 45% it would really mean -45%, as it would subtract 45%. But with a value of -45%, it would get added on, not subtracted. So it's really adding 45% onto your recharge time. Regards elFarto Stratego > 2005.10.22 14:15:17 combat Imperium Alliance petitions you, glancing off causing no real damage.
Darth Chaney	Posted - 2005.12.22 21:40:00 - [15] Wait, Burn Eden had a reputation that could possibly be ruined more than it already was? Wow.
Border201	Posted - 2005.12.22 22:16:00 - [16] Originally by: elFarto Originally by: Zavernus Hamarabi When the t2 missle description says "-45% Bonus" to capacitor recharge rate, what does that actually mean? Im not good with double negetives. OK, normally the 'capacitor recharge rate bonus' attribute would decrease you cap recharge time. So if it had a value of 45% it would really mean -45%, as it would subtract 45%. But with a value of -45%, it would get added on, not subtracted. So it's really adding 45% onto your recharge time. Regards elFarto Here is a question if your sitting in a cerb and have Fury's loaded into each of the 5 heavy launchers would your cap recharge rate get hit 5 times at a compounded increas of 3.183 times the normal cap recharge (1.275^5)? or is it just a 1 time hit of 27.5%? Originally by: corporal hicks Internet: where men are men, women are men and kids are cops
Hehulk	Posted - 2005.12.22 22:30:00 - [17] I believe the effects stack per launcher. Comeone please correct me if I'm wrong thought. ---------- "EvE isn't a game, it's a lifestyle" Jaegerknack, 5punkorp
Border201	Posted - 2005.12.22 22:34:00 - [18] Originally by: Hehulk I believe the effects stack per launcher. Comeone please correct me if I'm wrong thought. Then that would mean it would be about what I said for the compounded one which would be 3.183sec for every sec for recharge with out the missles. Originally by: corporal hicks Internet: where men are men, women are men and kids are cops
Kyoko Sakoda	Posted - 2005.12.22 23:10:00 - [19] Originally by: Hehulk I believe the effects stack per launcher. Comeone please correct me if I'm wrong thought. I don't think they do stack. If they did, you wouldn't be able to use an MWD, nor hardly even an AB, on a Crow with t2 missiles.
Angus Therm0pyle	Posted - 2005.12.23 03:39:00 - [20] it does stack sadly ---------------
Tido Maliyu	Posted - 2005.12.23 06:42:00 - [21] Originally by: Zavernus Hamarabi Wow, that does suck. What would i have to do skill wise to counteract the cap suckage? Become god... -------------------------- Draximus Cane: wheat barley kill anything? are you oats of your mind? I corn belive you just said that, rice I'
Deadzone	Posted - 2005.12.23 06:48:00 - [22] Edited by: Deadzone on 23/12/2005 06:48:36 Are you Devs SERIOUS about a 45% rechare HIT ?? WTF are you guys smoking overthere?!?!?! How in the bloody hell does a missle have ANYTHING to do with CAP RECHARGE??!!!???!!!! Are you guys even using your heads here or just assigning random negatives to make it seemed balanced??? I seriously think you people need to pull your heads out of you know where and get it together! Sincerely! Vice-Admiral Executive Commanding Officer Military Command Phoenix Propulsion Laboratories
Blitz Hacker	Posted - 2005.12.23 07:27:00 - [23] Originally by: Deadzone Edited by: Deadzone on 23/12/2005 06:48:36 Are you Devs SERIOUS about a 45% rechare HIT ?? WTF are you guys smoking overthere?!?!?! How in the bloody hell does a missle have ANYTHING to do with CAP RECHARGE??!!!???!!!! Are you guys even using your heads here or just assigning random negatives to make it seemed balanced??? I seriously think you people need to pull your heads out of you know where and get it together! Sincerely! It's all about balance. T2 stuff is hard to fit. the ammo even more so; they give you a huge advantage; but kill yer tank. The -real- issue on this is you get that -45% penalty PER launcher you have the ammo loaded in. Not sure if that's a bug or a 'feature' but the neg is fine imo .. but the multi neg.. well ya.. -BLiTZ- --- Redundancy's First Law of Game Features: When mentioning a feature or change to the playerbase after release, people will generally assume the interpretation they find most controversial. -
Grimwalius d'Antan	Posted - 2005.12.23 07:54:00 - [24] Originally by: Deadzone Edited by: Deadzone on 23/12/2005 06:48:36 Are you Devs SERIOUS about a 45% rechare HIT ?? WTF are you guys smoking overthere?!?!?! How in the bloody hell does a missle have ANYTHING to do with CAP RECHARGE??!!!???!!!! Are you guys even using your heads here or just assigning random negatives to make it seemed balanced??? I seriously think you people need to pull your heads out of you know where and get it together! Sincerely! I shudder at the thought of a raven or cerberus that can do T2 missile damage and still tank like they usually do. I'd say this is a very good way of specializing the T2 missiles.
Phoenicia	Posted - 2005.12.23 09:51:00 - [25] Like the almighty, all-knowing Clint Eastwood once said: "You adapt, you improvise, you overcome" A Cerberus doesn¦t need much cap recharge with certain setups. I submit the following; HI: 5x heavy Launcher II MID: 3x Sensor Booster, 2x Target Painter II LOW: 4x BCU A passive shield tank would also need no or little cap. An EW setup with racial ECM wouldn¦t need all that much. Need I go on? But tbh, the Amarr got the best out of this deal again. They lose out on shield hitpoints. Amarrians typically couldn¦t care less about shield hitpoints... "There is no peace, there is only BOOBIES!"
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.23 15:14:00 - [26] "A Cerberus doesn¦t need much cap recharge with certain setups. I submit the following; HI: 5x heavy Launcher II MID: 3x Sensor Booster, 2x Target Painter II LOW: 4x BCU A passive shield tank would also need no or little cap. An EW setup with racial ECM wouldn¦t need all that much. Need I go on?" This setup with high damage ammo loaded will run her cap dry in ~170 seconds, i.e. under 3 minutes just with these sensor boosters and target painters active. That's presuming she didn't do any warp in last half hour or so with these missiles pre-loaded, and her cap is actually intact. You don't need to go on; but it might be worth to stop going on, and realize some of these penalties are seriously overdone. There's been couple broken builds on SiSi before the RMR release where your ship would have no passive cap recharge at all. With these tech.2 missiles you get pretty much the same thing... again, for benefit equal to what a single damage mod offers.
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.12.23 15:22:00 - [27] passive cap recharge is pathetic on gank bs. Who cares about it... raven is best with injector and fill lows with BCU... Minus? Definitely less than any tracking or whatever penalty... oh like ship sig etc... HatePeace LoveWar[ATUK] > they ebayed the bs for grain
Blind Fear	Posted - 2005.12.23 15:25:00 - [28] Lets see. Caldari ships can fit an injector and basically negate that cap penalty for a nice damage bonus against all ships at every range. What can turret ships do? Hmm.... does the math.... carry the two..... oh right. Miss miss miss miss miss miss. And the velocity penalty for precision missiles is like the least effective penalty they could have possibly chosen. OMG MY RAVEN ONLY GOES 10 m/s WHILE I INSTAPOP FRIGATES WTF. ------------------------------------------------ Derailing threads with logic since 1992
Tybolt K'Nar	Posted - 2005.12.23 15:34:00 - [29] Originally by: Deadzone Edited by: Deadzone on 23/12/2005 06:48:36 Are you Devs SERIOUS about a 45% rechare HIT ?? WTF are you guys smoking overthere?!?!?! How in the bloody hell does a missle have ANYTHING to do with CAP RECHARGE??!!!???!!!! Are you guys even using your heads here or just assigning random negatives to make it seemed balanced??? I seriously think you people need to pull your heads out of you know where and get it together! Sincerely! Welcome to the world of ammo/cap usage Will be something new for you eh ... Oh, and umm, since I know it's coming from you Can I have your stuff
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.23 15:50:00 - [30] Edited by: j0sephine on 23/12/2005 15:51:06 "Caldari ships can fit an injector and basically negate that cap penalty for a nice damage bonus against all ships at every range. What can turret ships do? Hmm.... does the math.... carry the two..... oh right. Miss miss miss miss miss miss." Capacitor/ shield/ velocity penalties stack, since these are ship-related. Cap injector seems like a good idea until you try to fit 4 types of regular missiles, 8 types of tech.2 missiles and the cap charges in your pre-RMR cargo hold. Even with changes to ammo and charges size you get "blasterthron revisited" -- ship that's operational for 1-2 fights tops, with questionable gain in dps on the plus side when using some of the ammo you carry. Tracking penalty doesn't stack, each crystal/charge affects just the turret it's being loaded into. For long range ammo, the 50-100% range increase removes the tracking penalty nicely. For short range ammo, two tracking computers have the same effect. As does web and other usual tricks to reduce transversal. Neither of them is really better off here in this deal, tbh... both get some new ammo that is actually useful, and some that makes you go "wtf is the point"
Border201	Posted - 2005.12.23 16:53:00 - [31] Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan Originally by: Deadzone Edited by: Deadzone on 23/12/2005 06:48:36 Are you Devs SERIOUS about a 45% rechare HIT ?? WTF are you guys smoking overthere?!?!?! How in the bloody hell does a missle have ANYTHING to do with CAP RECHARGE??!!!???!!!! Are you guys even using your heads here or just assigning random negatives to make it seemed balanced??? I seriously think you people need to pull your heads out of you know where and get it together! Sincerely! I shudder at the thought of a raven or cerberus that can do T2 missile damage and still tank like they usually do. I'd say this is a very good way of specializing the T2 missiles. Says a person who I'm betting doesn't fly a missile boat. I agree that a hit somewhere for the t2 ammo is needed by to make a ship not move or not tank outside of what's in it's cap?! As Josephine said a cerb with 5 light mods in its mid slot the cap will be sucked dry in less then 3 minutes. And what about those ships that use both missiles and guns hmm? for instance the Eagle already has a hard time with cap usage with our maxed skills, and even then it's kinda touchy Toss in the 62.4 percent increase in recharge time from fitting 2 heavies and say good by to using your main weapons use presison and forget being able to stay at range. Originally by: corporal hicks Internet: where men are men, women are men and kids are cops
CueCia	Posted - 2005.12.23 17:03:00 - [32] All i can say is boo to you CCP. I loved the snowballs but this is just outrageous. Fix it please.
Blind Fear	Posted - 2005.12.23 17:24:00 - [33] Originally by: j0sephine Capacitor/ shield/ velocity penalties stack, since these are ship-related. Cap injector seems like a good idea until you try to fit 4 types of regular missiles, 8 types of tech.2 missiles and the cap charges in your pre-RMR cargo hold. Even with changes to ammo and charges size you get "blasterthron revisited" -- ship that's operational for 1-2 fights tops, with questionable gain in dps on the plus side when using some of the ammo you carry. As someone who flies a blasterthron, please allow me to shed a tear for your cargo hold problems. There, done. At least a raven can easily fit tech2 launchers. Lets give them a billion CPU so theyre totally impossible to fit like blasters. Itll be fun. ------------------------------------------------ Derailing threads with logic since 1992
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.23 17:46:00 - [34] "At least a raven can easily fit tech2 launchers. Lets give them a billion CPU so theyre totally impossible to fit like blasters. Itll be fun." Come again..? * Raven, 6x siege II, 3x ballistic control II: 1946 grid, 349 cpu left * Megathron, 7x ion II, 3x mag stab II: 7792 grid, 251 cpu left x-large c5 booster: 170 cpu, large accomodation repairer: 46 cpu there goes the 100 cpu advantage over Megathron that Raven might have had after fitting weapons + damage mods. "can easily fit tech.2 launchers" my ass... ¼¼;;
Border201	Posted - 2005.12.23 18:11:00 - [35] Originally by: j0sephine "At least a raven can easily fit tech2 launchers. Lets give them a billion CPU so theyre totally impossible to fit like blasters. Itll be fun." Come again..? * Raven, 6x siege II, 3x ballistic control II: 1946 grid, 349 cpu left * Megathron, 7x ion II, 3x mag stab II: 7792 grid, 251 cpu left x-large c5 booster: 170 cpu, large accomodation repairer: 46 cpu there goes the 100 cpu advantage over Megathron that Raven might have had after fitting weapons + damage mods. "can easily fit tech.2 launchers" my ass... ¼¼;; Makes a note to not disagree with Josephine... Originally by: corporal hicks Internet: where men are men, women are men and kids are cops
Blind Fear	Posted - 2005.12.23 19:45:00 - [36] Edited by: Blind Fear on 23/12/2005 19:45:05 Originally by: j0sephine there goes the 100 cpu advantage over Megathron that Raven might have had after fitting weapons + damage mods. "can easily fit tech.2 launchers" my ass... ¼¼;; 100mn MWD/Heavy Injector = 100 CPU. Look, your cpu advantage is back again. Don't even dare try to compete with a mega pilot on who has bigger fitting problems. ------------------------------------------------ Derailing threads with logic since 1992
Gan Ning	Posted - 2005.12.23 20:09:00 - [37] Originally by: Kilpelainen passive tank maybe. Passive shield tanking only works in theory and on the test server when you're messing about with unorthodox setups against a couple of people. Try that passive crap on TQ in a big fight and the chances are you will get blown away as your recharge although a nice constant wont keep up with the dps you recieve. Passive Shield tank will never be better than cap + shield boost. Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan I shudder at the thought of a raven or cerberus that can do T2 missile damage and still tank like they usually do. I'd say this is a very good way of specializing the T2 missiles. I'd be more than happy to have less armour or even less shield recharge instead of a cap nerf. Cap is life, doesn't matter what race you fly, if you dont have cap you die, and you die a very quick and grisily pwned type of death.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.23 20:10:00 - [38] "100mn MWD/Heavy Injector = 100 CPU. Look, your cpu advantage is back again." Scratch the heavy injector from there, since both will need it so it makes no difference. That leaves Raven with ~50 cpu advantage, which trickles out quick when you start to fit the plates/extenders, fields/energized nanos and other stuff. I realize it can be difficult to accept, but tech.2 kitted Raven can be about as cpu-tight as tech.2 kitted Megathron. Seriously, play with them both ^^ "Don't even dare try to compete with a mega pilot on who has bigger fitting problems." On the tech.2 level not so sure, tbh. Pretty much had to drop a CPU II on each of them with tech.2 weapons/damage mods to fit them. Megathron wound up slightly weaker in the end, but more "rounded out" if that makes sense... in the way i could fit everything i wanted, while Raven had 2-3 slots with stuff dropped in there simply because nothing better would fit. And any possible difficulties with fitting the Mega was mostly from wanting to have the MWD on it, along with the full tackling rig. Allow both ships to operate with dedicated tackler/warp in beacon and it gives Raven one extra mid... but 3 mids for Mega along with heap of cpu to spare.
000Hunter000	Posted - 2005.12.23 21:00:00 - [39] Ok don't want to sound like a whiner, but am i the only one that thinks it's a bit silly to release T2 ammo/missiles, then nerf said stuff again in an attempt to not make them too uber? there T2, they are supposed to be better then T1. So is it still worth using T2 ammo and/or missiles? does the added damage justify the silly penalties?
Sirkill	Posted - 2005.12.23 21:47:00 - [40] Pretty sure tha penelties wont give you a negative cap recharge.
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.12.23 21:49:00 - [41] Edited by: LUKEC on 23/12/2005 21:53:22 Originally by: j0sephine "100mn MWD/Heavy Injector = 100 CPU. Look, your cpu advantage is back again." Scratch the heavy injector from there, since both will need it so it makes no difference. That leaves Raven with ~50 cpu advantage, which trickles out quick when you start to fit the plates/extenders, fields/energized nanos and other stuff. I realize it can be difficult to accept, but tech.2 kitted Raven can be about as cpu-tight as tech.2 kitted Megathron. Seriously, play with them both ^^ "Don't even dare try to compete with a mega pilot on who has bigger fitting problems." On the tech.2 level not so sure, tbh. Pretty much had to drop a CPU II on each of them with tech.2 weapons/damage mods to fit them. Megathron wound up slightly weaker in the end, but more "rounded out" if that makes sense... in the way i could fit everything i wanted, while Raven had 2-3 slots with stuff dropped in there simply because nothing better would fit. And any possible difficulties with fitting the Mega was mostly from wanting to have the MWD on it, along with the full tackling rig. Allow both ships to operate with dedicated tackler/warp in beacon and it gives Raven one extra mid... but 3 mids for Mega along with heap of cpu to spare. first of all: mwd + injector = 115 cpu mega needs web... another 20cpu Which leaves you with very little cpu left. But to kill all your arguments: raven with cpu II and rcu II can fit pretty much anything. Guess what, mega with 2 fitting mods can only tank... or gank... ups that doesnt exists anymore. Oh and another flaw, why do you talk about ions? Talk about neutrons when comparing to sieges plz. Else compare to cruise. Seriously, cap recharge penalty should be changed into cap capacity. HatePeace LoveWar[ATUK] > they ebayed the bs for grain
Butane Vein	Posted - 2005.12.23 22:12:00 - [42] Although this would be mainly used for small skirmish, Capboosters FTW, you will see outlaws using this for quick takedowns in low sec empire. As for a laser user as myself my megapulse tracking is way low using T2 ammo. But as I havn't tested yet 2 target painters may work rather nicely. Hope I'm right.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.23 22:33:00 - [43] "first of all: mwd + injector = 115 cpu mega needs web... another 20cpu Which leaves you with very little cpu left." Not sure what you're trying to say here. The part about injector i talked about already -- Raven needs injector as well, so the cpu used by it doesn't affect 'balance' between these two ships. ^^ The point is basically, both of them get very cpu-tight when using tech.2 gear, to the point where you pretty much need co-processor to fit all. In this sense, talk how Raven "has so much cpu she can fit tech.2 weapons easily" is pure myth. Nothing more than that. "But to kill all your arguments: raven with cpu II and rcu II can fit pretty much anything." Thank you for confirming my point. You indeed need both cpu and grid enhancer to fit complete setup on tech.2-based Raven... case closed? "Guess what, mega with 2 fitting mods can only tank... or gank... ups that doesnt exists anymore." Except you don't really need 2 fitting mods on the Megathron? 7x ion II, 1 diminishing heavy nos, mwd II, web, disruptor, heavy cap injector, 3x damage mod, repairer, adaptive nano and 1600 mm plate. (with option to swap damage mod for second nano which is probably more efficient) Obviously this is mediocre setup, but it does fit snugly, and does ~580-650 dps (depending if you use 2 or 3 damage mods) vs ~510 from 3-mod Raven, before we start including the drones. Not that i think it could beat that Raven really, but that's mostly due to Raven's 4-slot tank and ability to hit in the weak spots. And discussion was about who can fit what, not who can beat whom. "Oh and another flaw, why do you talk about ions? Talk about neutrons when comparing to sieges plz. Else compare to cruise." I talk about the ions because i can; i have 3 different turret choices for short range high damage blaster ship, and i do intend to make best use out of this selection. Cruises? Cruises are cheap man's railguns, there's no point in bringing them up here...
Gwaltney	Posted - 2005.12.23 23:19:00 - [44] B%tch, moan, groan, whine..... boohoo boohoo - get some drones and shut up about missiles :) Merry XXX-Mas
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.12.23 23:33:00 - [45] Originally by: j0sephine "At least a raven can easily fit tech2 launchers. Lets give them a billion CPU so theyre totally impossible to fit like blasters. Itll be fun." Come again..? * Raven, 6x siege II, 3x ballistic control II: 1946 grid, 349 cpu left * Megathron, 7x ion II, 3x mag stab II: 7792 grid, 251 cpu left x-large c5 booster: 170 cpu, large accomodation repairer: 46 cpu there goes the 100 cpu advantage over Megathron that Raven might have had after fitting weapons + damage mods. "can easily fit tech.2 launchers" my ass... ¼¼;; Get an implant
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.12.24 09:29:00 - [46] j0, raven can afford to fit 2x fitting mods... unless you want 2x wcs on lows, as there is nothing that would benefit there. Mega cannot fit 7x ionsII, heavy nosf, injector and lar and plate ... no way. Point was: you fit 2x fitting mods (you don't have anything else to fit there anyway) and you can fit anything. On mega you can put 2x fitting mods and still fit nothing... and it will gimp setup even more. HatePeace LoveWar[ATUK] > they ebayed the bs for grain
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.12.24 09:31:00 - [47] Originally by: LUKEC j0, raven can afford to fit 2x fitting mods... unless you want 2x wcs on lows, as there is nothing that would benefit there. Mega cannot fit 7x ionsII, heavy nosf, injector and lar and plate ... no way. Unless you want to fit all t1, but then no thanks. Point was: you fit 2x fitting mods (you don't have anything else to fit there anyway) and you can fit anything. On mega you can put 2x fitting mods and still fit nothing... and it will gimp setup even more. HatePeace LoveWar[ATUK] > they ebayed the bs for grain
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.24 11:09:00 - [48] "j0, raven can afford to fit 2x fitting mods... unless you want 2x wcs on lows, as there is nothing that would benefit there." Well, i'd say there's quite a few things that you could fit there, ranging from eccm, through pdu, sensor enhancers, cargo expanders (hey gotta store that ammo somewhere) ... damage control if it ever gets fixed and finally yes, even the wcs. Can the Raven skip on all of these and fit grid/cpu enhancers? sure. She does give up on plenty useful stuff in order to do that, though. And the whole thing is, if it was indeed as easy to fit tech.2 stuff on her as it's claimed, there'd be no need to give up on anything in the first place. -.o "Mega cannot fit 7x ionsII, heavy nosf, injector and lar and plate ... no way." O RLY ;D * 7x ion II: 11579.4 grid, 346.5 cpu * heavy diminishing nos: 2000 grid, 40 cpu * mwd II: 1375 grid, 75 cpu * x5 web or better: 1 grid, 21-22 cpu * fleeting scrambler: 1 grid, 36 cpu * cap booster II: 1750 grid, 40 cpu * co-processsor II: 1 grid * 2x adaptive nano II: 4 grid, 60 cpu * 1600 mm rolled tungsten: 500 grid, 28 cpu * large 'accomodation' repairer: 2000 grid, 46 cpu * 2x magnetic stabilizer II: 2 grid, 60 cpu total: 19213.4 grid, 752.5 cpu megathron with co-proc II: 19375 grid, 756.25 cpu left: 161.6 grid, 3.75 cpu (2.75 cpu if you use fleeting web) (need engineering 5, electronics 5, weapon and advanced weapon upgrades at 5 ... i used the same skills when calculatin the Raven setup though, and expecting these from 'professional' battleship pilot isn't really too much. Note, no cpu implants or anything included)
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.12.24 13:08:00 - [49] 6x t2 cruise + 2x heavy dim: 377cpu/11245pg xl t2, 2x invun t2(44), injector, boost amp(copasetic,40), scram(32) = 430/2304 3x bcu, rcuII, cpuII = 135/4 all together: 942/13553 which exactly fits, but compared to above mega setup, it does aprox. 2/3 of its dmg on all ranges, have 2x heavy nosf and most important... fricking better resistances(mega doesn't get nearly 50% on expl, while you get over 55% on em) and much better tankability. And you know it well enough. Not to mention that it is all t2 and fits, while you cannot fit all t2 on mega. And that setup for megathron sux big time anyway. 4218 cap vs 5310, 10k armor vs 6k shield(with better resists) that regenerates at 156hp/s... Man i fly ravens with named t1 stuff these days... HatePeace LoveWar[ATUK] > they ebayed the bs for grain
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.24 14:34:00 - [50] "6x t2 cruise (..) compared to above mega setup, it does aprox. 2/3 of its dmg on all ranges, have 2x heavy nosf and most important... fricking better resistances(mega doesn't get nearly 50% on expl, while you get over 55% on em) and much better tankability. And you know it well enough. Not to mention that it is all t2 and fits, while you cannot fit all t2 on mega." ::sigh:: Yes, you can fit tech.2 cruise setup on the Raven. You will get a ship which gets outdamaged by the aforementioned Megathron by 55-75% before drones are taken into account (370 dps vs 580-655 depending on the exact setup) ... but which makes up for it with a better tank. All correct. Now what does any of this have to do with difficulty of fitting tech.2 based torpedo setup on Raven? answer: nothing. It's as if i put rack of dual 250 II's on Megathron, filled rest with other tech.2 stuff and then said "look, it fits with heap of room spare, Megathron clearly has no problems whatsoever fitting full tech.2-based setup and all you Megathron whiners are stuuuuuupid and talk *******s \o/" Can we finally admit fitting tech.2 sieges with complete good setup on Raven can be as much a b.tch as fitting tech.2-based good setup on Megathron, and let this die? Because this is the point i was trying to make for the past few posts... (oh and mega with 2x tech.2 nano gets 47.2% on explosive with skills which is quite 'nearly 50%' ... but that's beside the point)

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