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Franken Slammer
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Posted - 2005.12.23 03:03:00 -
[1]
As it stands the ammo penalties are applied for every turret/launcher with them loaded.
It is, imo too harsh. I for one will not buy this ammo. The penalties are acceptable applied once. Applied 6-8 times makes any ship laughable.
If the penalties are applied once for each TYPE of t2 ammo loaded, that's be fine, and t2 would be in much higher demand, and the lucky people who got the bpo's can make some isk.
The current practise of releasing everything pre-nerfed is getting a bit thin. I'd love a ship of pure pwnage, but i'll stick to antimatter and dmg mods, tyvm, There is no way i'm gimping my ship 4, 5, 6 times or more.
Have a nice day.
No, i'm not an alt.
No, idk how to change my sig.
Yes i have caldari frigate, cruiser and battleship to lvl5. So i'm not a complete no0b  Gimme ammo i can :ub, plz ccp!
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Zavernus Hamarabi
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Posted - 2005.12.23 03:13:00 -
[2]
AFIAK T2 in general isnt god gear that just pwns on every level. I'd like to put t2 launchers on my frigate, but it takes more power and cpu, alot more. Ergo, i train the relevant skills. I'd like to use t2 ammo, but it nerfs my ship, nerfs it hard. Ergo, i train the relevant skills.
WTB Cool sig :/ |
Franken Slammer
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Posted - 2005.12.23 03:19:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Zavernus Hamarabi
AFIAK T2 in general isnt god gear that just pwns on every level. I'd like to put t2 launchers on my frigate, but it takes more power and cpu, alot more. Ergo, i train the relevant skills. I'd like to use t2 ammo, but it nerfs my ship, nerfs it hard. Ergo, i train the relevant skills.
I use t2 guns on my harpy, and i quite like them.
Granted they have higher fitting reqs, and that alone affects ship setups, even after weapon upgrades and adv wep upg. Those higher fittings are a gentle barrier on t2. The ammo stacking penatlies is just waaaay over the top imo.
TYVM.
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PAPA
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Posted - 2005.12.23 03:24:00 -
[4]
so zav wot ur saying is if you cant use um no one can! wot is the point of putting them in game if no one uses them. as it stand they are crap, end of
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Kyoko Sakoda
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Posted - 2005.12.23 03:37:00 -
[5]
/signed. This is too much. From a missile-user pov: try using T2 rockets or light missiles on a Crow with a 45% cap recharge rate reduction per launcher. You can't use an MWD, much less an AB. 
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without
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Posted - 2005.12.23 04:34:00 -
[6]
they are prenerfed, and this is a good thing
gives time for balance
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.23 04:41:00 -
[7]
"they are prenerfed, and this is a good thing"
Good for what, exactly?
I don't see interdictors, recon cruisers, command ships, mining barges, fighters, new drones, carriers, motherships nor titans... none of them is really coming "pre-nerfed". It's just something that's apparently randomly applied to half of tech.2 ammo, with no indication from devs they actually consider these things to be "pre-nerfed" on top of that... :/
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Zavernus Hamarabi
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Posted - 2005.12.23 04:42:00 -
[8]
Originally by: PAPA
so zav wot ur saying is if you cant use um no one can! wot is the point of putting them in game if no one uses them. as it stand they are crap, end of
Uh, what?
I said. If i try to put t2 weapons on my ship and they dont fit, i dont hop on e-o and rail for the removal of the fitting req's. Same for ammo, its t2 ammo, its really really powerful, and really really hard to fit with. The point of putting them in the game is to add another facet you plan for when you fit a ship. They arent crap, their t2, which as a group are extremly hard to fit.
I sure hope its a bug though, per launcher stacked is a little rediculous.
WTB Cool sig :/ |
Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.12.23 05:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Zavernus Hamarabi
Uh, what?
I said. If i try to put t2 weapons on my ship and they dont fit, i dont hop on e-o and rail for the removal of the fitting req's. Same for ammo, its t2 ammo, its really really powerful, and really really hard to fit with. The point of putting them in the game is to add another facet you plan for when you fit a ship. They arent crap, their t2, which as a group are extremly hard to fit.
I sure hope its a bug though, per launcher stacked is a little rediculous.
They're not powerful enough to overcome their incredibly harsh penalties - thats the complaint. Null charges look interesting - other than that...
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Franken Slammer
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Posted - 2005.12.23 05:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: without
they are prenerfed, and this is a good thing
gives time for balance
Pre-nerfing = bad. I can't build, and i don't have an R&D agent, but i'd love to use ammo which was USEFUL. And i'd pay for it. Sure as eggs is eggs, max run bpc's would sell damn well too.
Just gimme something nice, not something which gimps my ships well past halfway to hell.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.12.23 06:08:00 -
[11]
I was really hoping T2 ammo and missiles would be really unique and cool.
They seem really cookie cutter, boring, and loaded with penalties to me.
Defidently not worth the wait...
CCP can do better than this.
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I need a sig. :| |
Keta Min
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Posted - 2005.12.23 06:59:00 -
[12]
they are not pre-nerfed, so there nothing to un-nerf about this ammo. you have to realize that it is not everyday fighting ammo like antimatter or your multifreq crystal. it is much more dependant on the situation and the rest of your setup. it actually needs brains and tactics to use it to its full potential and that's good.
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Franken Slammer
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Posted - 2005.12.23 07:12:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Franken Slammer on 23/12/2005 07:13:37
The penalties stack. That has to go for starters before t2 ammo will be used. eg, a raven with 6 cruise fury's loaded gets a top speed of 30m/s. Restricted movement = more dmg taken. Also a highly reduced range on that type of ammo.
Apoc with 8 scorch (maybe) ends up with a mighty 500shields. Yes, it armour tanks, but those shields are a buffer. Less hps = greater danger. This is on top of the reduced tracking on those turrets.
2 (or 3 in a few cases) penalties for every ammo is bad. Those penalties STACKING for each turret/launcher = hideously bad.
The stacking of penalties has to go, else the t2 ammo will almost be unused.
In my judgement.
edit - spelling
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Blitz Hacker
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Posted - 2005.12.23 07:14:00 -
[14]
Have to agree there; however penalties per clip loaded shouldn't be in here; I can't even use T2's and I think the neg for using one clip is pretty harsh;..
-BLiTZ-
Wonder if this is a bug or as intended..
---
Redundancy's First Law of Game Features:
When mentioning a feature or change to the playerbase after release, people will generally assume the interpretation they find most controversial.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.23 07:18:00 -
[15]
"it is much more dependant on the situation and the rest of your setup. it actually needs brains and tactics to use it to its full potential and that's good."
light "fury" missile
* 13.5 km max range, i.e. 1/3rd of range of tech.1 missile
* 20% damage increase, but considerably less damage when hitting fast moving target, than tech.1 missile
* 45% cap recharge penalty per launcher
in what situation would you use this missile? Keep in mind shortened range makes it no longer possible to snipe from distance, but actually puts you in the optimal of cruiser guns loaded with heaviest ammo... and the crippled cap recharge makes your ship pretty much unable to tank nor move fast enough to avoid fire or to run any sort of EW.
am genuinely curious what sort of use you can find for it.
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Keta Min
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Posted - 2005.12.23 07:33:00 -
[16]
Originally by: j0sephine
"it is much more dependant on the situation and the rest of your setup. it actually needs brains and tactics to use it to its full potential and that's good."
light "fury" missile
* 13.5 km max range, i.e. 1/3rd of range of tech.1 missile
* 20% damage increase, but considerably less damage when hitting fast moving target, than tech.1 missile
* 45% cap recharge penalty per launcher
in what situation would you use this missile? Keep in mind shortened range makes it no longer possible to snipe from distance, but actually puts you in the optimal of cruiser guns loaded with heaviest ammo... and the crippled cap recharge makes your ship pretty much unable to tank nor move fast enough to avoid fire or to run any sort of EW.
am genuinely curious what sort of use you can find for it.
i've mostly looked at BS ammo and it's quite useful. granted this light missile has its role already filled by rockets, still useful against larger ships when you notice they have no nos and you can get closer than standard missile range..
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Bopque
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Posted - 2005.12.23 07:41:00 -
[17]
Frm what i have been told u will never get a ship of pure pwneage in EVE.People would scream bloody murder, if u did, then all would say thats not balanced lol.From what i can see with Tech 2 ammo is there is no advantage to useing it.Tech 2 should mean better,in EVE it means worse lol
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Muntz
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Posted - 2005.12.23 07:54:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Muntz on 23/12/2005 07:55:17
I must admit, tech II ammo/crystals have like...zero appeal to me. Sure, I can deal with penalties, but stacking penalties is dumb. You know something is wrong if people would rather use standard ammo regardless of cost and training time.
Oh, and please don't judge me by my corporation, I've been playing this game since release.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.23 15:33:00 -
[19]
"granted this light missile has its role already filled by rockets, still useful against larger ships when you notice they have no nos and you can get closer than standard missile range.."
... maybe you missed the part about having no cap recharge removing any sort of defense you could have. How is placing yourself right in the place where you get shot into pieces before you have time to say "oops" ... useful? o.O;
"edit: for example the t2 1000m sig torps combined with a minmatar painter recon buddy and a cap booster tank. that's quite useful ;)"
Aye; of course if you require two ships for that then instead of dedicated target painter you could simply get another missile battleship (cheaper, given the insurance on tech.2 ships and whatnot) and increase your damage output by 100% instead of 50% ... still, they have their uses even if penalties on them are downright silly. The problem is more with light and heavy 'high damage' missiles and pretty much all new rockets. :/
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.12.24 03:59:00 -
[20]
Originally by: without
they are prenerfed, and this is a good thing
gives time for balance
I wish.
They have TWO YEAR OLD PLACEHOLDER STATS. (well, not missiles, but).
I wish I was joking.
Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
ErrorS
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Posted - 2005.12.24 04:24:00 -
[21]
Spike M
Good damage, good range.. .25% tracking speed. Uh?
(im going ot try this, it might not work and I might be wrong)
0.023 rad/second for 250mm railgun2
One gun - 0.00575
Two guns - 0.00143
Three guns - 0.000359
Four Guns - 0.0000898
Five Guns - 0.0000224
425mm Railgun - 0.009
Dual 1000mm Railgun - 0.004
am I right? is this how it's going to be? You couldn't hit a station using a Ferox with 5 250mm T2 Railguns.
I'm not sure that's how it works but it might. .25% of your current tracking when you add more ammo, so is it 25% of your tracking with one t2 gun? 25% of that if you add another?
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
Mitram
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Posted - 2005.12.24 04:34:00 -
[22]
Thats for sure a bug. Make a bug report.
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Mitram
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Posted - 2005.12.24 04:43:00 -
[23]
I guess CCP forgot that currently all attribute mods apply for the global attribute. So it effects every module that uses this attribute. Now this attribute mod must only effect the weapon it is used in.
Since new stuff is not on SiSi usually no normal player could test it there and CCP didn't test it (as it seems) in a real environment either.
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gen2
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Posted - 2005.12.24 05:19:00 -
[24]
I agree, 3 penalties on a laser crystal is bad enough, but having them all stack? that's just plain rediculous.
Here's a possible solution: Since CCP likes to make the T2 stuff harder to use (which in itself isn't a bad idea), instead of penalties on the ammo itself, why not put the challenge of using T2 ammo in the skills...Give them higher skill reqs....maybe an Ammunition Specialization skill....Advanced Laser Ammo, Advanced Hybrid Ammo.....even adding subcategories to those like Advanced Beam Ammunition and Advanced Pulse Ammunition for laser users.
This way it's harder for people to use the ammo, but when they've earned the skills to use it the ammo is actually worth the training, and just plain better than T1 ammo. T2 ammo needs to be better than T1 ammo, period.
I respect all the hard work CCP has put into the new ammo, but in my opinion, it seems like they've over-thought the T2 ammo to the point where it's less useful than standard T1 ammo. PLEASE CCP, please revise how T2 ammo works.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.12.24 06:00:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 24/12/2005 06:01:16
"better", yes
"more damaging", no
difference. (except siege amo, which SHOULD be -75% or more tracking to compensate...)
Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2005.12.24 06:06:00 -
[26]
Heh, even with the stacked penalties corrected, I won't be using tech II ammo. For its price and the penalties it carries, it is utterly worthless garbage.
CCP, please stop giving us garbage to play with. A good rule to abide by would be "only release stuff that everyone doesn't hate".
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Jaleean Atheria
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Posted - 2005.12.24 06:32:00 -
[27]
I agree with everything in this thread. I also think that the rate of decay on tech 2 small crystals is rediculously fast. All of the crystals have the same number of shots till breakage but when you have a high rof gun like a medium pulse laser II you can go through 1000 shots or whatever it is in less than 48 hours (trust me, I did it)
Orignal Mr. Floppyknickers signature |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.24 11:27:00 -
[28]
"I'm not sure that's how it works but it might. .25% of your current tracking when you add more ammo, so is it 25% of your tracking with one t2 gun? 25% of that if you add another?"
Tracking is turret-specific so it's likely only the turret equipped with that particular charge is affected, with single penalty. Just like fitting multiple antimatter charges doesn't affect all your turrets with 0.5 * 0.5 * 0.5 ... penalty to optimal range.
On the other hand ship-specific attributes like capacitor recharge rate, shield size, velocity etc... most definitely get affected with compounded penalty from all charges fitted, as confirmed. o.x;
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Sable Schroedinger
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Posted - 2005.12.24 11:47:00 -
[29]
I'd have thought a simple bit of logic could be applied here. If you don't like it, don't use it.
Those that can see a use in this ammo, great! Those that can't, why ***** about it? 
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Caldorous
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Posted - 2005.12.24 13:11:00 -
[30]
I think they are bugged, the penalties of the ammos for the weapons should only apply to the weapons that are loaded with such ammo, not to all the turrets. And the ships penalties should only apply to the ship when the weapon is activated, not always
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What about fixing the drone AI?
2005.03.13 01:11:29combatYour 350mm Railgun I perfectly strikes Asteroid (Vel |
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