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metalravenous
S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore
9
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Posted - 2013.08.10 04:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have been part of a number of alliances in my Eve lifetime. In all cases when things went into the failscade nose dive there was no recovery and the alliance died. I am wondering for anyone who has experienced the opposite. How did your alliance pull out of its tailspin? What were the signs of recovery? How long did the rebuilding period take? Etc etc...pls post relevant stories hete |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1939
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 05:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sorry but the smart people in TEST started being worried well over a year ago when leadership decided to backstab old friends and cuddle up to old enemies. Then you morons started calling them toxic. TEST has both a leadership problem, and a cultural problem. I don't think there will be a recovery unless there are drastic changes. |
metalravenous
S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore
9
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Posted - 2013.08.10 05:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
The question is less about state of test and more to learn from other ppls experiences. |
Proletariat Tingtango
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
516
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 06:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
No this is about the state of TEST because alliance longevity is not about some kind of destiny-bound God ordained magic cycles, it's about mistakes being made, laziness, stagnation, and lack of forethought.
That said, Delve is also Cursed. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1945
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 06:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
metalravenous wrote:The question is less about state of test and more to learn from other ppls experiences.
It goes back to your situation perfectly. Make solid friends and fire the current leadership. |
Max50
Parental Control
31
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 08:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
metalravenous wrote:The question is less about state of test and more to learn from other ppls experiences.
The problem is when an alliance is missing the original goal it had as an entity. This happens usually when carebears with excel docs are calling the shots and blue lists extend to more than half of EVE.
You lost a war against a coalition. Typical in EVE. Carebears will leave, its what always happens. |
WarFireV
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
109
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 13:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Generally the Alliances that make it, go lean and mean. Sheds all the people only there for isk, causal PvP, or AFK from the game. After that it is just about leadership being drama free and realizing what they have to do. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
497
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 15:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
I have no idea whether TEST will bounce back in the long term but all of the alliances that made it have had time in the doldrums. PL got booted out of Fountain, Goons fat-fingered their sov and has had CEOs that stole all the isk.
What will keep TEST together is people liking to play Eve in the alliance, hopefully some of us will continue to do so. I still think it's a somewhat pyrrhic victory for the CFC because the price of winning has been to clearly underline the pet status of the non-Goon members with bullying PAP stats and threats of punishment for under-performance. Maybe tyhat will come back to bite you one day.
As for shedding people (Mr left -A- when it got tough), it's never good to shed people wholesale. Especially because of losing. However there's always new people coming in if the bus gets turned around. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4130
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 17:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Quote:The remaining mass of "for fun" leeches If you like having fun in eve you should probably follow the advice of numerous experts like Baki "STOP BEING POOR" Yuku and also Gevlon "Leeches" Goblin, and get rich and go elsewhere.
Do you have any roles or stuff like that? Apparently for Pizza, awoxing guarantees citizenship. Sound like fun? There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
644
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 18:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ahh nice, we're in the coming to terms, self-analyzing phase. Complete collapse is around the corner.
Callduron, you need to get everything within your reach and bail. You can just go suck in another pub alliance amigo. |
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KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
502
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 18:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
You can bounce back if your alliance has something unique to offer its members that no other alliance can provide, even while in defeat.
Look at SOLAR for example, their members dont really have alot of other places to go, so they stay wether they have sov or not. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
497
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 21:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Well I'm sticking with Test for now. Can't say it's dull
I'm still FCing fleets and actually put in for promotion yesterday so hopefully I'll get to cross swords with you chaps again. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4133
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 21:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Callduron wrote:Well I'm sticking with Test for now. Can't say it's dull I'm still FCing fleets and actually put in for promotion yesterday so hopefully I'll get to cross swords with you chaps again. Ah good. Get some rank and you, too, can join TEST leadership in Sniggerdly, a member of Pandemic Legion. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
384
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 22:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
To answer the OP, several alliances has survived the total or semi-total loss of SOV (In various forms). Red Alliance, XIX, SOLAR, -A- all have had setbacks and have come back later, some to be knocked down again. Nulli Secunda was thought to failcascade after losing SOV in Delve and go to grind up ISK in FW, and Raiden was said to be dead after losing Tenal. RAZOR was part of the old northern coalition and lost the war against DRF, but rebounced. CVA has lost Providence once or twice (Can't remember) before and yet still exists. IRC and ED both survived several setbacks in the drone regions, ED reforming when an opportunity arose (And subsequenty got knocked down) and IRC still trying to get back on their feet AFAIK.
More famous examples, like KenZuko being BoB under a different name, or IT that consisted of many former BoB-aligned corps/alliances, and GoonSwarm -> solodrakeban-something -> Goonswarm Federation are also some that you could look to as examples of primarily or entirely SOV alliances that in some way survived losses.
Is there any unifying trend to all these examples? I actually don't think so.
Several of the Russian alliances are said to survive because "Russian winter/endurance" or "they have nowhere else to go", non-Russians were sometimes knocked out in a war but had friends with couches, and some again were said to be not as much the name, but the state of mind.
My personal experience (As a line member) with S2N was a number of things, such as feeling that we'd actually held out mostly on our own for far longer than expected, some good measure of stubbornness, and also a leadership that very much showed the way. Some of them had been through the IT collapse, some were just great dudes and some were very serious about being good at having fun (Where fun = PvP). I think the leadership in S2N made an enormous difference, but the way of the exit also mattered a lot.
The Mittani wrote two columns with his opinions and observations, if you want to check them out check: http://themittani.com/content/20-inside-failure-cascade http://themittani.com/content/21-surviving-failure-cascade
A last tip: If your alliance leaves for NPC 0.0 (Syndicate ESPECIALLY) to "trim the fat", the failure cascade is over, it has happened and the ship sunk 4 wars ago. |
Leonidas Webb
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 23:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
Here are a few tips for TEST to aid in thier recovery.
1). Most importantly you must have goals. Not the "we shall rule the universe and get revenge on those that did this to us" sort, but honest, realistic, achievable goals for short, intermediate, and long term.
2). You need trustworthy, accountable leadership willing to do what is necessary to achieve those goals.
3). "Trim the fat" - in essence, first boot anyone that is severely inactive, then boot anyone whose agenda is not in line with the completion of your goals.
4). Learn who your friends are and treat them with gratitude and respect.
5). Learn and grow from every encounter as both victory and defeat are useful and informative and an excellent resource for strengthening your alliance if viewed objectively.
I could keep going but that should be more than enough to point you in the right direction. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
497
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 01:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Callduron wrote:Well I'm sticking with Test for now. Can't say it's dull I'm still FCing fleets and actually put in for promotion yesterday so hopefully I'll get to cross swords with you chaps again. Ah good. Get some rank and you, too, can join TEST leadership in Sniggerdly, a member of Pandemic Legion.
Doesn't seem like my cup of tea. Really like fighting them though, hope we get more chances to shoot PL. My first fleet with Test was against Sniggwaffe. (Not quite the same I know but they got some PL help once they started losing ships). CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
497
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 01:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Leonidas Webb wrote:Here are a few tips for TEST to aid in thier recovery.
1). Most importantly you must have goals. Not the "we shall rule the universe and get revenge on those that did this to us" sort, but honest, realistic, achievable goals for short, intermediate, and long term.
2). You need trustworthy, accountable leadership willing to do what is necessary to achieve those goals.
3). "Trim the fat" - in essence, first boot anyone that is severely inactive, then boot anyone whose agenda is not in line with the completion of your goals.
4). Learn who your friends are and treat them with gratitude and respect.
5). Learn and grow from every encounter as both victory and defeat are useful and informative and an excellent resource for strengthening your alliance if viewed objectively.
I could keep going but that should be more than enough to point you in the right direction.
Really interesting to see other people's perspectives but I don't think we can quite follow all your advice.
1) Yup, immediate goals seem to be iskbuilding and pvp/FC development.
2) We really like Boodabooda at the grunt level. Even people who have left because of leadership have said they like Boodabooda but not the others. Feels like we're turning the management thing around.
3) Inactives maybe but we're unlikely to boot people ever for not toeing the party line. At the heart of Test is the Reddit community and the feeling that if you're active on Reddit you're in. We cater to all types of players from the very casual to the very hardcore.
4) Blue everyone you mean? We've had two coalitions and both times we got fed up. I do think our leaders should have a healthy dialogue with the movers and shakers of nullsec but personally I'd like it if no one in null felt completely safe from us.
5) we have a ton of work to do on learning from our gameplay experiences. I don't even think we're that good yet at learning how to learn - we could do in the FC team with being more of a cadre, so we can discuss FCing issues, so we can learn from our colleagues mistakes as well as our own. I think it's slowly coming but moving a large organisation is a gradual process.
I'll get mocked for this but in some ways that's why it's good to be freed from the responsibilities of sov. It's hard to figure out very complicated difficult multi-department tasks like super fishing when mired in day-to-day. I'm hoping we'll be able to raise our game during our spell in the wilderness.
I do think there's a lot of Eve who doesn't want to see us wither and die partly because our recklessness makes nullsec a more kill-rich environment and partly because we do a tremendous amount to bring people into this hobby. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Leonidas Webb
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 07:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
To clarify in answer to your response.
Booda may be the most wonderful and likable person in all of eve or from any and all TEST members perspective, however this does not make them a good or poor leader. Proper and appropriate leadership decisions are what make that distinction. In the corporate world, leadership/ management are not there to be the average member/employees friend, they are there to make high level decisions that affect the corporation, the achievement of goals, implementation of policies, etc.
If the corporate situation has gone from bad to worse under thier leadership, then regardless of "fault" it is, ultimately the fault if leadership/ management.
Next, differences of opinion are acceptable within the membership structure, it allows room for debate, options, and allows the leadership to see both the popularity and effectiveness of command level decisions from the grunt level perspective. So I do not mean kick anyone that doesn't agree with command decisions, I mean kick anyone that does not support the goals and direction of the corporation/ alliance once that decision is made. If viewed objectively, these types of people should be easily recognizable, and should be removed because they both undermine morale and constantly question leadership authority, which further undermines morale as well as undermines belief in the ability of the leadership to do what is in the best interest of the corporation.
In short, you cannot and will not follow a leaders decisions if you have no belief in that leaders ability due to constant vocal opposition to each and every command decision purely for the reason of wanting to play " devils advocate ".
Blue everyone? Of course not, what I mean is that when you find a friendly corporation or alliance, defined as one that works with you and alongside you for the benefit of both, then hold onto them as that is a valuable asset. When two entities are together for any length of time there will be differences of opinion, but these are not insurmountable. The trick is, you cannot allow jealousy, hurt feelings, or animosity over those differences of opinion to sour the relationship as Montolio did with the TEST/CFC relationship. Nor can you allow the relationship to become predatory in nature so that one entity is "helping" the other solely for thier own benefit or to poach active stable members, such as how the vast majority view the recent TEST/PL relationship.
Running a corp/clan/guild in RL or in a game is a hard and oftentimes thankless task, especially so in a game where the vast majority of the feedback you get is negative, so props to those that step up to the task regardless of success or failure.
That being said,
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Leonidas Webb
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 07:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
That being said, just because someone is willing to take the responsibility, or simply because no one else wants the job, does not mean that person is capable or well suited for the position.
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knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
253
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 08:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
Test needed this dramatic loss. Until now they've had everything handed to them on a silver platter by either Goons or PL. As long as the leadership is healthy it might not be a total cascade, having to strike out on their own and carve out space unassisted by an all powerful existing entity is the best thing for them.
You rarely understand the true value of something unless you've had to work for it. Test will now need to put effort in. Best thing is to cut out the dead wood, dissenters, mongoloids and those looking for a free ride. Oh and ask PL nicely to stop poaching all tests best supercap owning members. |
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Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
497
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 08:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Leonidas Webb wrote:TIn the corporate world, leadership/ management are not there to be the average member/employees friend,
Gosh that sounds horrible. Thank goodness I'm not playing this game in a metrics-driven organisation run by lawyers and accountants. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
497
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 08:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote:Oh and ask PL nicely to stop poaching all tests best supercap owning members.
I honestly don't think they poach or have to poach.
It's just the comparison, when our managers are put under pressure it seems like historically TEST has become a place of blaming rivalry and failing to appreciate them. They look at the chilled out guys laughing and joking and drift there when TEST overloads them to burnout. It's not really fair to give volunteer staff a 24 hour a day 365 day a year job then yell at them when stuff doesn't happen fast enough.
It's probably the most important thing for Boodabooda to fix. For most people in TEST it's a really good alliance to be in, we need to make sure this is true at the top. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8571
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 11:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
Remember when Booda leaked some advice Mittens gave him? Yeah, he should have probably followed that advice instead of simultaneously disregarding it, mocking it and burning the last diplomatic bridge to an alliance with a "best possible friends, worst possible enemies" policy. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Roderick Grey
Broski North Black Legion.
455
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 12:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
TEST needs to go back to being a small scale newbie alliance instead of trying to be anything half-decent. GÇ£We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.GÇ¥- Special needs division of Fcon. |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
504
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 15:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
Andski wrote:Remember when Booda leaked some advice Mittens gave him? Yeah, he should have probably followed that advice instead of simultaneously disregarding it, mocking it and burning the last diplomatic bridge to an alliance with a "best possible friends, worst possible enemies" policy.
You cannot seriously mean that you want to blue up another huge alliance again? |
Ersahi Kir
The Eminence Front SpaceMonkey's Alliance
288
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 17:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
KuroVolt wrote:Andski wrote:Remember when Booda leaked some advice Mittens gave him? Yeah, he should have probably followed that advice instead of simultaneously disregarding it, mocking it and burning the last diplomatic bridge to an alliance with a "best possible friends, worst possible enemies" policy. You cannot seriously mean that you want to blue up another huge alliance again?
It is possible to fight with an alliance and still have good diplomatic relations with them. As long as both sides clearly understand the situation and you don't turn every bridge into a bonfire. I would even say that being able to fight one day and work together another day is a sign of good diplomacy and mutual respect. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8571
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 17:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
KuroVolt wrote:Andski wrote:Remember when Booda leaked some advice Mittens gave him? Yeah, he should have probably followed that advice instead of simultaneously disregarding it, mocking it and burning the last diplomatic bridge to an alliance with a "best possible friends, worst possible enemies" policy. You cannot seriously mean that you want to blue up another huge alliance again?
TEST has a huge problem with toxic elements driving management right into burnout. Mittens suggested that Booda deal with these toxic elements by restricting their forum access with a "gulag" permission. This worked for Goonswarm in 2010 when goons who no longer played the game were shaming everyone else who did, and after a few of them were gulaged, it stopped.
Booda wasn't happy because apparently being offered a solution to a major problem within your alliance is insulting! So, of course, he proceeded to paraphrase (and misquote) Mittens in a broadcast to all and then dump the full logs in a public section of their forums. You don't leak logs if you expect to maintain diplomatic relations (not standings, but communication)
It had nothing to do with blue standings. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Berke Negri
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
120
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 19:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
Callduron wrote:knobber Jobbler wrote:Oh and ask PL nicely to stop poaching all tests best supercap owning members. I honestly don't think they poach or have to poach. well i guess if you lie to yourself that would be true |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
644
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 21:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
Callduron wrote:I'm still FCing fleets and actually put in for promotion yesterday so hopefully I'll get to cross swords with you chaps again.
Sorry dude, i dont go into lo-sec. |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
506
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 21:29:00 -
[30] - Quote
Andski wrote:KuroVolt wrote:Andski wrote:Remember when Booda leaked some advice Mittens gave him? Yeah, he should have probably followed that advice instead of simultaneously disregarding it, mocking it and burning the last diplomatic bridge to an alliance with a "best possible friends, worst possible enemies" policy. You cannot seriously mean that you want to blue up another huge alliance again? TEST has a huge problem with toxic elements driving management right into burnout. Mittens suggested that Booda deal with these toxic elements by restricting their forum access with a "gulag" permission. This worked for Goonswarm in 2010 when goons who no longer played the game were shaming everyone else who did, and after a few of them were gulaged, it stopped. Booda wasn't happy because apparently being offered a solution to a major problem within your alliance is insulting! So, of course, he proceeded to paraphrase (and misquote) Mittens in a broadcast to all and then dump the full logs in a public section of their forums. You don't leak logs if you expect to maintain diplomatic relations (not standings, but communication) It had nothing to do with blue standings.
Ah, thanks for clarifying. Nevermind my last post then. |
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Tetsuo Tsukaya
Pixel Navigators
96
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 00:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
Callduron wrote:Leonidas Webb wrote:TIn the corporate world, leadership/ management are not there to be the average member/employees friend,
Gosh that sounds horrible. Thank goodness I'm not playing this game in a metrics-driven organisation run by lawyers and accountants.
How is that working out for you guys by the way? |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
498
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 13:31:00 -
[32] - Quote
KuroVolt wrote:Andski wrote:Remember when Booda leaked some advice Mittens gave him? Yeah, he should have probably followed that advice instead of simultaneously disregarding it, mocking it and burning the last diplomatic bridge to an alliance with a "best possible friends, worst possible enemies" policy. You cannot seriously mean that you want to blue up another huge alliance again?
Andski is from Goons. Who blue anything with a pulse. (I mean Fweddit for instance, lol).
Test has made its bed by rejecting its blues. We could have been friends with Goons, we could have put up with Sort Dragon. We're driven by a desire for conflict and "narrative", I don't think any TEST leader to date would ever have wanted to put us in a position where we have a year of peace.
There are many many people in Eve who don't have sov because they choose not to blue everyone or because they're incompetent at bluing everyone. It's been a bit of both in our history.
Remember CFC is half the galaxy, Goons = Deklein, one small region. And even within Goons alliance there's a ton of impore pubbies - they're actually closer in culture to Wildly Inappropriate Reloaded than the pubbie-hating nihilists from the Something Awful forums. They put up with a ton of pubbie pets for political power and that's a house of cards that could quite easily change (if Mittani burned out and DJ took over for instance).
Sovlessness should give TEST the opportunity to jockey for new diplomatic advantage in the Game of Thrones that will one day emerge between the blue team that owns the left half of the sov map and the red team that owns the right side of the sov map. I'd love to see us play both sides off against the middle the way BL did in the Fountain war although that's just my opinion and currently we're blue to N3 and rather unrepentently Grr Goons. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
498
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 13:45:00 -
[33] - Quote
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:Callduron wrote:Leonidas Webb wrote:TIn the corporate world, leadership/ management are not there to be the average member/employees friend,
Gosh that sounds horrible. Thank goodness I'm not playing this game in a metrics-driven organisation run by lawyers and accountants. How is that working out for you guys by the way?
I had one of the most fun days I ever had in Eve yesterday. First my carrier alt got tackled and the thing pointing it let me go after his dread friends sieged so I got to warp safe giving them the finger. I ran 3 fleets to help people get stuff out. The first one I got to dumpster my hero Kurator's gatecamp, killing his two tech 2 large bubbles and an eris, trading for a condor and an ibis while juggling billions of isk worth of evac fit refugees in safes. Next fleet I got to field test a doctrine idea which is always a great moment for a FC and out-manoeuvred a RIOT skirmish naga gang then bulled a gate camp killing T2 large bubbles while under Tornado fire, repping everyone like a mad thing and jumping my scythe out in structure seconds after the non-combat ships got through. The doctrine showed to advantage. And the last fleet, perhaps fortunately for my nerves, I got to fly everyone all the way to safety without losing anyone bar a blackbird who sat outside the forcefield for odell to bomb after I told him to come in.
Also spent 2 hours in a bomber gang hunting talwars and got blown up by odell in my vexor.
Some of you may have seen the EN24 piece or Gevlon's blog article comparing my take on the PR- fight ("woo hoo, I hero tackled Elo") with Baki Yuku's ("kill yourself if you think that was good"). TEST's situation is extremely frustrating for some of us, the power players, the progression-oriented people and so on but it's awesome for those of us who think jumping into a brawl with a badly fit Crucifier is a great thing to do and who can find the fun in fleeting up with friends and doing stuff. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
worldlimits
The Brotherhood of Chaos Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
7
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 14:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
The health of any alliance is always subjective. The definition of a 'healthy' alliance is so varied. Most pre cfc li3 fed dudes would argue li3 is dead. People say irrelevant npc null is the graveyard of alliances yet people keep measuring an alliance based on their pvp fleet size. Yes a bigger fleet results in greater power but it does not define an alliance. An alliance is a bunch of people who want to have fun together. You see test shouting at people doing the background stuff. I have been the receiving end of jadecougar's shouting in li3. When you start start shouting people who are facilitating fun, theres going to be problems. Its extremely important to appreciate and acknowledge the background dudes. Just saying thanks for existing is all thats needed. Stop being so self centred and think of other people's hard work which allowed you to have fun.
TLDR; people will still play eve together in an alliance if its FUN. MAKE YOUR ALLIANCE FUN. If its fun, it will automatically attract people. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
498
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 14:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
Quite so, Worlds
(And in case I didn't say it before, thanks for the work you did in Li3). CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
424
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 14:24:00 -
[36] - Quote
Callduron wrote:KuroVolt wrote:Andski wrote:Remember when Booda leaked some advice Mittens gave him? Yeah, he should have probably followed that advice instead of simultaneously disregarding it, mocking it and burning the last diplomatic bridge to an alliance with a "best possible friends, worst possible enemies" policy. You cannot seriously mean that you want to blue up another huge alliance again? Andski is from Goons. Who blue anything with a pulse. (I mean Fweddit for instance, lol). ]
FWEDDIT guys were beating TEST on the killboards....hell they maintaned a possitive ratio.
But if you want to talk about blueing anything with a pulse. TRIBE,WHYSO,INK,J4GP(or whoever the other end of fweddit was) along with NC. Nulli. PL
.......how'd that work out for you? |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
644
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 15:30:00 -
[37] - Quote
Callduron wrote: Andski is from Goons. Who blue anything with a pulse. (I mean Fweddit for instance, lol).
Test has made its bed by rejecting its blues. We could have been friends with Goons, we could have put up with Sort Dragon. We're driven by a desire for conflict and "narrative", I don't think any TEST leader to date would ever have wanted to put us in a position where we have a year of peace.
There are many many people in Eve who don't have sov because they choose not to blue everyone or because they're incompetent at bluing everyone. It's been a bit of both in our history.
Remember CFC is half the galaxy, Goons = Deklein, one small region. And even within Goons alliance there's a ton of impure pubbies - they're actually closer in culture to Wildly Inappropriate Reloaded than the pubbie-hating nihilists from the Something Awful forums. They put up with a ton of pubbie pets for political power and that's a house of cards that could quite easily change (if Mittani burned out and DJ took over for instance).
Based on the current turn of events i feel i cannot show my face around these parts anymore. I have turned into what i despise. i don't think i can be smug posting around here pretending to be better than the rest of the CFC when pubbie filth is paying for my BLOPS losses. In fact soon i wont event be able to lose BLOPS because anyone half competent with working F keys will be blue to us and paying rent...
Callduron would you consider me joining your "all 4 da fun guild"? This is a serious question, i dont think you know how upset i am right now. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
498
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 16:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
Charles buddy you haven't turned into anything if memory serves me correctly. (I've forgotten your SA name and a quick google is not turning it up).
Isn't your history something like: Played Eve for a year Registered on SA 3 months later joined SA's Eve guild?
Long time ago, admittedly. But you've always been a pubbie who joined SA to play in their Eve guild.
And no, you can't join us, try Fweddit or Brave Newbies. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
644
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
Callduron wrote:Charles buddy you haven't turned into anything if memory serves me correctly. (I've forgotten your SA name and a quick google is not turning it up).
Isn't your history something like: Played Eve for a year Registered on SA 3 months later joined SA's Eve guild?
Long time ago, admittedly. But you've always been a pubbie who joined SA to play in their Eve guild.
And no, you can't join us, try Fweddit or Brave Newbies.
That is pretty close actually. Only thing not accurate is i joined SA's EVE guild like a month or 2 into EVE (i stayed in DPG but as mentioned things back then were different than today). You have to remember alliances didn't even exist in-game as an organization option and corporations had a much much lower member cap so things were a mess back then as far as "guild" organization.
|
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
498
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 19:20:00 -
[40] - Quote
My point was as a J4G you don't get to take the moral high ground about pubbies. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
|
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
644
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 19:41:00 -
[41] - Quote
Oh i know what your point was. I disagree.
Im still pretty upset Maybe i can join Snot Shot and be part of PIZZA |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8575
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 19:46:00 -
[42] - Quote
it's pretty hilarious when J4Gs are complaining about J4Gs Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
644
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 19:51:00 -
[43] - Quote
What? No.
If anything it would be a J4G complaining about blue pubbies. Unless the plan is to get all the renters into GoonWaffe which i mean is definitely not beyond the realm of possibility at the rate things are going.
|
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
499
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 20:44:00 -
[44] - Quote
Andski wrote:it's pretty hilarious when J4Gs are complaining about J4Gs
Pretty sure SEDNA has no one in it who did not join for the community's stated purpose. It's people who join for the wrong reason that the Goon pejorative applies to.
I'm surprised you're so confused, I guess if you compromise your culture so frequently it gets hard to remember what it originally was. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8578
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 23:03:00 -
[45] - Quote
Callduron wrote:Andski wrote:it's pretty hilarious when J4Gs are complaining about J4Gs Pretty sure SEDNA has no one in it who did not join for the community's stated purpose. It's people who join for the wrong reason that the Goon pejorative applies to. I'm surprised you're so confused, I guess if you compromise your culture so frequently it gets hard to remember what it originally was.
GoonWaffe's purpose is for goons to have fun playing this game with other goons. That's it. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1998
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 01:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
Leonidas Webb wrote:Here are a few tips for TEST to aid in thier recovery.
1). Most importantly you must have goals. Not the "we shall rule the universe and get revenge on those that did this to us" sort, but honest, realistic, achievable goals for short, intermediate, and long term.
2). You need trustworthy, accountable leadership willing to do what is necessary to achieve those goals.
3). "Trim the fat" - in essence, first boot anyone that is severely inactive, then boot anyone whose agenda is not in line with the completion of your goals.
4). Learn who your friends are and treat them with gratitude and respect.
5). Learn and grow from every encounter as both victory and defeat are useful and informative and an excellent resource for strengthening your alliance if viewed objectively.
I could keep going but that should be more than enough to point you in the right direction.
These are some good points:
1) Defining an alliance objective by who you hate really doesn't work. Especially not when the group you dislike is the size of say... the CFC. In order to fight something that large you have to draw together all the people that hate us, and frankly most of them don't much like eachother either.
2) This is a major problem in TEST right now. TEST is leadership by the masses, which means rather than having a unifying organization and direction, instead you are firing off in all different directions.
3) This will be an issue for TEST as they have attempted to build upon the Goonwaffe "I do whatever I want whenever I want" mentality but they never much bothered to do the necessary things that would enable that to happen and still succeed. Look we don't have SMA blue because we love them. We have them blue because they will fight while I rat in my Ishtar, or focus on small gang ****.
4) This has been a major stumbling block for TEST. You can try to spin the narrative of the evil CFC wickedly handing you two regions on a silver platter while keeping you under their jackbooted heels however you want, but it's simply not true. If you do try to spin that narrative you'll be forced to answer questions like: Why was TEST allowed to keep Tech moons in CFC space despite not being members of that entity anymore? TEST absolutely must learn to not **** on their allies, they must learn diplomacy. And most importantly they must start actually living up to the promises they make.
5) Is really just a clever way of restating points 1-4. |
Ersahi Kir
The Eminence Front SpaceMonkey's Alliance
295
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 04:47:00 -
[47] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Leonidas Webb wrote:Here are a few tips for TEST to aid in thier recovery.
1). Most importantly you must have goals. Not the "we shall rule the universe and get revenge on those that did this to us" sort, but honest, realistic, achievable goals for short, intermediate, and long term.
2). You need trustworthy, accountable leadership willing to do what is necessary to achieve those goals.
3). "Trim the fat" - in essence, first boot anyone that is severely inactive, then boot anyone whose agenda is not in line with the completion of your goals.
4). Learn who your friends are and treat them with gratitude and respect.
5). Learn and grow from every encounter as both victory and defeat are useful and informative and an excellent resource for strengthening your alliance if viewed objectively.
I could keep going but that should be more than enough to point you in the right direction. These are some good points: 1) Defining an alliance objective by who you hate really doesn't work. Especially not when the group you dislike is the size of say... the CFC. In order to fight something that large you have to draw together all the people that hate us, and frankly most of them don't much like eachother either. 2) This is a major problem in TEST right now. TEST is leadership by the masses, which means rather than having a unifying organization and direction, instead you are firing off in all different directions. 3) This will be an issue for TEST as they have attempted to build upon the Goonwaffe "I do whatever I want whenever I want" mentality but they never much bothered to do the necessary things that would enable that to happen and still succeed. Look we don't have SMA blue because we love them. We have them blue because they will fight while I rat in my Ishtar, or focus on small gang ****. 4) This has been a major stumbling block for TEST. You can try to spin the narrative of the evil CFC wickedly handing you two regions on a silver platter while keeping you under their jackbooted heels however you want, but it's simply not true. If you do try to spin that narrative you'll be forced to answer questions like: Why was TEST allowed to keep Tech moons in CFC space despite not being members of that entity anymore? TEST absolutely must learn to not **** on their allies, they must learn diplomacy. And most importantly they must start actually living up to the promises they make. 5) Is really just a clever way of restating points 1-4.
<3
He noticed us. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
500
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 05:03:00 -
[48] - Quote
Andski wrote:Callduron wrote:Andski wrote:it's pretty hilarious when J4Gs are complaining about J4Gs Pretty sure SEDNA has no one in it who did not join for the community's stated purpose. It's people who join for the wrong reason that the Goon pejorative applies to. I'm surprised you're so confused, I guess if you compromise your culture so frequently it gets hard to remember what it originally was. GoonWaffe's purpose is for goons to have fun playing this game with other goons. That's it.
You're being disingenuous. "J4G" is a term that relates to the Something Awful forums, to people who joined those forums to unlock access to a game guild with no intention of becoming a member of the SA forum posting community. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
644
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 05:32:00 -
[49] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote: These are some good points:
1) Defining an alliance objective by who you hate really doesn't work. Especially not when the group you dislike is the size of say... the CFC. In order to fight something that large you have to draw together all the people that hate us, and frankly most of them don't much like eachother either.
2) This is a major problem in TEST right now. TEST is leadership by the masses, which means rather than having a unifying organization and direction, instead you are firing off in all different directions.
3) This will be an issue for TEST as they have attempted to build upon the Goonwaffe "I do whatever I want whenever I want" mentality but they never much bothered to do the necessary things that would enable that to happen and still succeed. Look we don't have SMA blue because we love them. We have them blue because they will fight while I rat in my Ishtar, or focus on small gang ****.
4) This has been a major stumbling block for TEST. You can try to spin the narrative of the evil CFC wickedly handing you two regions on a silver platter while keeping you under their jackbooted heels however you want, but it's simply not true. If you do try to spin that narrative you'll be forced to answer questions like: Why was TEST allowed to keep Tech moons in CFC space despite not being members of that entity anymore? TEST absolutely must learn to not **** on their allies, they must learn diplomacy. And most importantly they must start actually living up to the promises they make.
5) Is really just a clever way of restating points 1-4.
Hey SmilingVagrant i think i was your 2000th like, just saying.
And that was a good post imho. Maybe that's why you're a leader of TopGoon and im another goon grunt howling my objections and frustrations into the dark cave that is CAOD. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
501
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 05:47:00 -
[50] - Quote
Yup some good points, SmilingVagrant.
We do indeed need to get better at managing our blues. Diplomatic favour is a currency and we need to learn not to keep pouring it down the drain.
That said there were good reasons why TEST took the steps it did - we needed to grow and develop and become independent rather than, say, be the game's largest alliance still crashing in the Testagram and messing up goon comms.
It's been genuinely sad for TEST members how low we've fallen this time though, seeing friends seek new alignments that mean we won't really play Eve with them again.
For me TEST's number one priority, wherever we live and whoever we fight, has to be to become an alliance people really want to stay in - part of that being a necessary improvement in how we manage diplomacy. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
|
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations Self Sabatoge
1162
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 07:42:00 -
[51] - Quote
Callduron, you've been getting a bit worked up lately in this thread. My offer still stands- leave test and have some fun again, in my corp. I'll even give you a medal like I did for Iamien. See Bio for isk doubling rules. -áIf you didn't read bio, chances are you helped fund those who did. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
501
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 07:58:00 -
[52] - Quote
No, I'm fine thanks. I got a medal. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations Self Sabatoge
1164
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 08:06:00 -
[53] - Quote
Callduron wrote:No, I'm fine thanks. I got a medal.
Yeah but you could start having fun again instead of being mad all the time. Plus, not just anyone gets a medal from me. See Bio for isk doubling rules. -áIf you didn't read bio, chances are you helped fund those who did. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8585
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 08:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
on the bright side test can actually demonize us for kicking them out of their home unlike that dumpster tier latin named alliance we kicked out of delve alongside TEST and PL that then decided that PL and TEST were their best friends Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8585
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 08:19:00 -
[55] - Quote
not that test will be of any consequence in a month's time now that the core of their membership is either inactive or in other alliances, heh Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
546
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 10:55:00 -
[56] - Quote
metalravenous wrote:I have been part of a number of alliances in my Eve lifetime. In all cases when things went into the failscade nose dive there was no recovery and the alliance died. I am wondering for anyone who has experienced the opposite. How did your alliance pull out of its tailspin? What were the signs of recovery? How long did the rebuilding period take? Etc etc...pls post relevant stories hete
I find friendships that extend beyond a certain name ie "TEST" or "GOONS" to be the strongest form of survival. The question is really how are the bonds and relationships of TEST members with each other? What about leadership? From the hectic inner firings to people jumping ship only to be another PL "elite" I'd have to say not so good.
My advice? Forget SOV. Its done. For whatever reasons I truly feel if TEST try's to remain a force in null they will fall and fall hard. It's already happening. People are blaming each other, line members are becoming disenfranchised, and you have the likes of Gelvon Goblin infecting your ranks with promises of fortune and glory while forsaking all common sense for an Excel spreadsheet.
The best thing for TEST to do is go to Low Sec. No I mean it. Develop pilots with intimate combat, let FC's learn slowly. Each member becomes more valued in small gang pvp. Each pilot has a more sense of self worth, and lvl 5's are plenty for line members to jew away.
People speak about Low Sec like it's banishment when rather it's probably the best thing that could ever happen to TEST. It would force people to engage with one another and god forbid I say it develop friendships. It's why I am enamored with Shadow Cartel.
It's why I love Low Sec. You aren't someones *****, a pawn, just another F1'ing loser thinking because you have a certain Alliances tag next to your name you are hot ****. Also TEST needs to grow up. This **** spamming mindset and aspie induced ragefest spewed by your line members over these forums, Reddit, and other public spaces is utterly embarassing and pathetic.
Whether TEST can take wisdom in their defeat and transform into something worthwhile is yet to be seen. Just like the return of Jesus Christ. Who knows? All I know is I for one am not holding my breath. Visit my blog for all the latest in jeers and tears as well as news at hoistthecolors.org |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
384
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 19:09:00 -
[57] - Quote
Andski wrote:on the bright side test can actually demonize us for kicking them out of their home unlike that dumpster tier latin named alliance we kicked out of delve alongside TEST and PL that then decided that PL and TEST were their best friends I knew we were gone when Mynnna didn't even know it was S2N citizens that got disbanded. Oh well, been quite a run all in all. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
502
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 21:12:00 -
[58] - Quote
Andski wrote:on the bright side test can actually demonize us for kicking them out of their home unlike that dumpster tier latin named alliance we kicked out of delve alongside TEST and PL that then decided that PL and TEST were their best friends
I actually hope not.
I think TEST's best hope is in being diplomatically agile. Of course we still have a ton of people who want to hurt goons but pursuing a forever war reminds me of Monty Python's Black Knight, shouting come on then at King Arthur with his arms and legs cut off.
Maybe at some point we'll get to dump on a common target, the fount of all friendship in Eve. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
511
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 21:19:00 -
[59] - Quote
Callduron wrote:Andski wrote:on the bright side test can actually demonize us for kicking them out of their home unlike that dumpster tier latin named alliance we kicked out of delve alongside TEST and PL that then decided that PL and TEST were their best friends I actually hope not. I think TEST's best hope is in being diplomatically agile.
Its never too late to embrace NRDS! |
Ersahi Kir
The Eminence Front SpaceMonkey's Alliance
298
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 21:21:00 -
[60] - Quote
Callduron wrote:I think TEST's best hope is in being diplomatically agile.
I haven't seen any indication that test has anyone in a leadership role that can be diplomatically agile. Even if they did, I'm not sure who is left to open communications with. |
|
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
502
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 21:22:00 -
[61] - Quote
@ Tara
I think certain aspects of Test are unalterably fixed. Lively talkative, lots of bad posts, those are core values of the Eve guild of the Reddit community and the pubbies it's brought along for the ride. So too we are committed to nullsec and Boodabooda has confirmed that Aridia is a pitstop on our way back to Sov.
That said immediate plans should see some lowsec shennanigans.
Your absolutely right about the friendships and we have a lot of people rooting for us. Even our enemies I think will miss us on the nullsec landscape.
I'm enjoying being involved in trying to turn it round. While I regret that so many of our deeply adored FCs have moved on it's a vacuum that us rookie FCs can try to fill.
Wish me luck, I'll need it. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
645
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 22:28:00 -
[62] - Quote
Oh Boodabooda confirmed its a pit stop? Ahh ok then you're good. TEST will rise again (later). |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2006
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 01:54:00 -
[63] - Quote
Callduron wrote: That said there were good reasons why TEST took the steps it did - we needed to grow and develop and become independent rather than, say, be the game's largest alliance still crashing in the Testagram and messing up goon comms.
This is exceptionally revisionist, by the time you guys really started outnumbering Goonswarm Federation proper on a regular basis you had already been installed as the lords of fountain. The whole PET status is silly as well. You need look no further than Xdeath to find someone who is generally friendly to us, not a member of our coalition yet has managed to generally avoid pissing in our cornflakes on a regular basis... and if their space were invaded we'd be down there in an instant defending them.
Good diplomacy does not necessarily mean submission to authority. The fact that you guys continue to attempt to rewrite history is one of the major sticking points of our relations today and why the general consensus amongst Joe Goon is "They deserve this." |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4142
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 05:39:00 -
[64] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:I generally don't do mainfleet ops, but I was there at the siege of latest siege of 6VD-T... and I was flying the same ******* hurricane I was flying two and a half years ago as a bold face newbie that could barely fit into his brand new HURRICANE CLASS BATTLECRUISER when we wrested control of that very same system to give to our bro's in TEST so they could finally move out of the Testagram.
In short: You deserved this. How many times did you pay insurance on that hurricane. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
William Walker
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
232
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 13:11:00 -
[65] - Quote
The exodus has begun! Even BoodaBooda is leaving. pâ+(*GîÆGêçGîÆ*)n+ë pü+(pé£GêçpÇü-¦)pü+ (GùòGÇ+GùòG£+) |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
502
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 13:18:00 -
[66] - Quote
William Walker wrote:The exodus has begun! Even BoodaBooda is leaving.
That's a photoshop of a mail that was published around a few hours before the version with BB's name in appeared.
CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
513
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 17:13:00 -
[67] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Callduron wrote: That said there were good reasons why TEST took the steps it did - we needed to grow and develop and become independent rather than, say, be the game's largest alliance still crashing in the Testagram and messing up goon comms.
This is exceptionally revisionist, by the time you guys really started outnumbering Goonswarm Federation proper on a regular basis you had already been installed as the lords of fountain. The whole PET status is silly as well. You need look no further than Xdeath to find someone who is generally friendly to us, not a member of our coalition yet has managed to generally avoid pissing in our cornflakes on a regular basis... and if their space were invaded we'd be down there in an instant defending them. Good diplomacy does not necessarily mean submission to authority. The fact that you guys continue to attempt to rewrite history is one of the major sticking points of our relations today and why the general consensus amongst Joe Goon is "They deserve this." I mean I'm not even going to lie, I'm a bit bitter about all of this. Twice now I've rallied to war out of my own pockets (Back in those days Instacanes weren't reimbursed) to fight on behalf of an alliance that wanted more space, and only gotten spit in my face and revisionist history a few years later. I generally don't do mainfleet ops, but I was there at the siege of latest siege of 6VD-T... and I was flying the same ******* hurricane I was flying two and a half years ago as a bold face newbie that could barely fit into his brand new HURRICANE CLASS BATTLECRUISER when we wrested control of that very same system to give to our bro's in TEST so they could finally move out of the Testagram. In short: You deserved this.
As much as I understand your point and anger, you cant really be angry at another alliance for the history revisioning. All major alliances have done that, ESPECIALLY Goonswarm. |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
646
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 01:07:00 -
[68] - Quote
So Callduron, the question in the OP is:
Quote: Typical alliance life cycles? Should Test newbros panic?
We both agree the answer is yes, correct?
|
Keter Zero
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 05:56:00 -
[69] - Quote
Callduron wrote: I think certain aspects of Test are unalterably fixed. Lively talkative, lots of bad posts, those are core values of the Eve guild of the Reddit community and the pubbies it's brought along for the ride. So too we are committed to nullsec and Boodabooda has confirmed that Aridia is a pitstop on our way back to Sov.
That said immediate plans should see some lowsec shennanigans.
Your absolutely right about the friendships and we have a lot of people rooting for us. Even our enemies I think will miss us on the nullsec landscape.
I'm enjoying being involved in trying to turn it round. While I regret that so many of our deeply adored FCs have moved on it's a vacuum that us rookie FCs can try to fill.
Wish me luck, I'll need it.
If you brain that is road to recover you are in for unhappy wacking up. Area is dead. No way to money, but you are pined in like beefcow. You will find more bombings than rats.
You have no friends. This is because TEST is lies. CFC gave you loveseat, handed you region, gave goo... and you turn to everyone we crush {SOME OF THEM WERE CRUSH FOR YOU BBW!} and made them blew. Then you make them **** to. Then you lose war because you don't fight. No you go to corner to die from murder.
You don't need luck. You need theft things and run. |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
518
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 11:40:00 -
[70] - Quote
Keter Zero wrote:Callduron wrote: I think certain aspects of Test are unalterably fixed. Lively talkative, lots of bad posts, those are core values of the Eve guild of the Reddit community and the pubbies it's brought along for the ride. So too we are committed to nullsec and Boodabooda has confirmed that Aridia is a pitstop on our way back to Sov.
That said immediate plans should see some lowsec shennanigans.
Your absolutely right about the friendships and we have a lot of people rooting for us. Even our enemies I think will miss us on the nullsec landscape.
I'm enjoying being involved in trying to turn it round. While I regret that so many of our deeply adored FCs have moved on it's a vacuum that us rookie FCs can try to fill.
Wish me luck, I'll need it.
If you brain that is road to recover you are in for unhappy wacking up. Area is dead. No way to money, but you are pined in like beefcow. You will find more bombings than rats. You have no friends. This is because TEST is lies. CFC gave you loveseat, handed you region, gave goo... and you turn to everyone we crush {SOME OF THEM WERE CRUSH FOR YOU BBW!} and made them blew. Then you make them **** to. Then you lose war because you don't fight. No you go to corner to die from murder. You don't need luck. You need theft things and run. If only TEST had obtained the JUICE.... |
|
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
504
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 14:21:00 -
[71] - Quote
Keter Zero wrote:
If you brain that is road to recover you are in for unhappy wacking up.
Just FYI buddy, Google Translate isn't really a substitute for good posting.
Please keep such attempts to the Something Awful forums a community member of which you so clearly are. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
646
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 15:14:00 -
[72] - Quote
Poor Callduron is pinned in like aridian beefcow. |
Keter Zero
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 15:58:00 -
[73] - Quote
KuroVolt wrote: If only TEST had obtained the JUICE....
IF TEST WAS JUICE THIS WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPEN! JUICE IS STRENGTH! JUICE IS INDEPENDENT! JUICE IS POWER TO REPEL EPHEMERAL FORCES! DO NOT ILL SPEAK JUICE!
Callduron wrote:
Just FYI buddy, Google Translate isn't really a substitute for good posting.
Please keep such attempts to the Something Awful forums a community member of which you so clearly are.
If they add form for dead child in panty to make more like reddit would you like gift certification? |
Wingmate
Raven's Flight Nulli Secunda
120
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 21:18:00 -
[74] - Quote
Keter Zero wrote:KuroVolt wrote: If only TEST had obtained the JUICE....
IF TEST WAS JUICE THIS WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPEN! JUICE IS STRENGTH! JUICE IS INDEPENDENT! JUICE IS POWER TO REPEL EPHEMERAL FORCES! DO NOT ILL SPEAK JUICE! Callduron wrote:
Just FYI buddy, Google Translate isn't really a substitute for good posting.
Please keep such attempts to the Something Awful forums a community member of which you so clearly are.
If they add form for dead child in panty to make more like reddit would you like gift certification?
folks, i present to you: joe goon.
feel bad, test. this is what beat you.
edit: don't worry, i already feel bad for myself. |
Chive Clamson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 23:50:00 -
[75] - Quote
Actually that guy owns
also all this talk about the true ~spirit of GOON~ is really ******* stupid, particularly coming from mr. redditor over there. Its a video game and we won at it
|
Chive Clamson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 23:52:00 -
[76] - Quote
At what price space victory, goooooooooooonssssssssss
AT WHAT PRICE |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1741
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 01:24:00 -
[77] - Quote
Keter Zero wrote:Callduron wrote: I think certain aspects of Test are unalterably fixed. Lively talkative, lots of bad posts, those are core values of the Eve guild of the Reddit community and the pubbies it's brought along for the ride. So too we are committed to nullsec and Boodabooda has confirmed that Aridia is a pitstop on our way back to Sov.
That said immediate plans should see some lowsec shennanigans.
Your absolutely right about the friendships and we have a lot of people rooting for us. Even our enemies I think will miss us on the nullsec landscape.
I'm enjoying being involved in trying to turn it round. While I regret that so many of our deeply adored FCs have moved on it's a vacuum that us rookie FCs can try to fill.
Wish me luck, I'll need it.
If you brain that is road to recover you are in for unhappy wacking up. Area is dead. No way to money, but you are pined in like beefcow. You will find more bombings than rats. You have no friends. This is because TEST is lies. CFC gave you loveseat, handed you region, gave goo... and you turn to everyone we crush {SOME OF THEM WERE CRUSH FOR YOU BBW!} and made them blew. Then you make them **** to. Then you lose war because you don't fight. No you go to corner to die from murder. You don't need luck. You need theft things and run.
To hell with everything else going on in space right now, make this man your chief diplomat TODAY, CFC.
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 02:08:00 -
[78] - Quote
Keter Zero wrote:If they add form for dead child in panty to make more like reddit would you like gift certification?
Post of the Year 2013 right here
|
Wingmate
Raven's Flight Nulli Secunda
120
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 12:57:00 -
[79] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:
This is exceptionally revisionist, by the time you guys really started outnumbering Goonswarm Federation proper on a regular basis you had already been installed as the lords of fountain. The whole PET status is silly as well. You need look no further than Xdeath to find someone who is generally friendly to us, not a member of our coalition yet has managed to generally avoid pissing in our cornflakes on a regular basis... and if their space were invaded we'd be down there in an instant defending them.
Good diplomacy does not necessarily mean submission to authority. The fact that you guys continue to attempt to rewrite history is one of the major sticking points of our relations today and why the general consensus amongst Joe Goon is "They deserve this."
I mean I'm not even going to lie, I'm a bit bitter about all of this. Twice now I've rallied to war out of my own pockets (Back in those days Instacanes weren't reimbursed) to fight on behalf of an alliance that wanted more space, and only gotten spit in my face and revisionist history a few years later.
I generally don't do mainfleet ops, but I was there at the siege of latest siege of 6VD-T... and I was flying the same ******* hurricane I was flying two and a half years ago as a bold face newbie that could barely fit into his brand new HURRICANE CLASS BATTLECRUISER when we wrested control of that very same system to give to our bro's in TEST so they could finally move out of the Testagram.
In short: You deserved this.
more than anything else in this thread, a goon complaining about revisionist history is easily the best. especially coming from TrollingVagrant.
edit: this is just an absolute gem: "(Back in those days Instacanes weren't reimbursed)" oh, the horror! no isk fountains to suck on! |
Aaron Kyoto
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
7
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 12:01:00 -
[80] - Quote
Max50 wrote:metalravenous wrote:The question is less about state of test and more to learn from other ppls experiences. The problem is when an alliance is missing the original goal it had as an entity. This happens usually when carebears with excel docs are calling the shots and blue lists extend to more than half of EVE. You lost a war against a coalition. Typical in EVE. Carebears will leave, its what always happens.
This isn't the whole case, however. And you'd have to look back over 8 long months of issues piling up like a congested highway to get to the core root of the problem. |
|
Johnathan Severasse
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
5
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 22:23:00 -
[81] - Quote
Chive Clamson wrote:Actually that guy owns
also all this talk about the true ~spirit of GOON~ is really ******* stupid, particularly coming from mr. redditor over there. Its a video game and we won at it
Finally someone who gets it. Eve is a videogame. This turbomad crap is borderline roleplaying. |
Max50
Parental Control
31
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 22:37:00 -
[82] - Quote
Aaron Kyoto wrote:Max50 wrote:metalravenous wrote:The question is less about state of test and more to learn from other ppls experiences. The problem is when an alliance is missing the original goal it had as an entity. This happens usually when carebears with excel docs are calling the shots and blue lists extend to more than half of EVE. You lost a war against a coalition. Typical in EVE. Carebears will leave, its what always happens. This isn't the whole case, however. And you'd have to look back over 8 long months of issues piling up like a congested highway to get to the core root of the problem.
There are no "issues" anywhere in EVE. Those "issues" are stories told to people to keep them playing for more than a month in 10% tidi.
Test did their thing the way they wanted, Sometimes it works, sometimes you need to cry in forums for 2 years begging CCP to change game mechanics to favour your gamestyle.
In the end as already shown in the past, the side roleplaying more "wins" since their members are willing to endure more lag and blueball decisions. Then it becomes so big that only time will make them implode. This is what happened to BOB, to NC, to NC mk2(aka delve goons) and time will come when it will happen to the NC mk3.
|
Aaron Kyoto
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
7
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 15:44:00 -
[83] - Quote
Max50 wrote:Aaron Kyoto wrote:Max50 wrote:metalravenous wrote:The question is less about state of test and more to learn from other ppls experiences. The problem is when an alliance is missing the original goal it had as an entity. This happens usually when carebears with excel docs are calling the shots and blue lists extend to more than half of EVE. You lost a war against a coalition. Typical in EVE. Carebears will leave, its what always happens. This isn't the whole case, however. And you'd have to look back over 8 long months of issues piling up like a congested highway to get to the core root of the problem. There are no "issues" anywhere in EVE. Those "issues" are stories told to people to keep them playing for more than a month in 10% tidi. Test did their thing the way they wanted, Sometimes it works, sometimes you need to cry in forums for 2 years begging CCP to change game mechanics to favour your gamestyle. In the end as already shown in the past, the side roleplaying more "wins" since their members are willing to endure more lag and blueball decisions. Then it becomes so big that only time will make them implode. This is what happened to BOB, to NC, to NC mk2(aka delve goons) and time will come when it will happen to the NC mk3.
Their way of playing the game was shitting on diplomacy and more?
By issues i meant internal problems, leadership changes, lack of matured pvp'ers (ones who'd fought for their space) and ofc diplomatic problems. |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
648
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 19:03:00 -
[84] - Quote
Max50 wrote:
Test did their thing the way they wanted, Sometimes it works, sometimes you need to cry in forums for 2 years begging CCP to change game mechanics to favour your gamestyle.
How many years have you been crying? |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
615
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 19:51:00 -
[85] - Quote
Max50 wrote:In the end as already shown in the past, the side roleplaying more "wins".
You obviously deduced this from how CVA crushes all its opponents and how we own half the map. |
Sariyah
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 09:17:00 -
[86] - Quote
There's not much secret or rocket science involved. Just find a good group and stick with them.
Isk, sov, whatever are temporary anyway, now you have them now you don't. Doesn't make much sense to care too much about it. They can't be a purpose just a tool.
I wouldn't care too much about the random opportunist newbs that leave when things go wrong. You get them when you don't filter your members, in exchange you get huge numbers. Look at goons they already proven that quantity > quality years ago when their combat tactic was to crash servers (in a way still is). With a handful of people that know what they are doing test can be goon v2. What works, works. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4261
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 03:20:00 -
[87] - Quote
Sariyah wrote:Isk, sov, whatever are temporary anyway, now you have them now you don't. Doesn't make much sense to care too much about it. They can't be a purpose just a tool. Yeah, it doesn't matter anyway. Would have been useful for a coalition formed to destroy GSF though There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11692
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:51:00 -
[88] - Quote
Reading all of Callduron's patriotic pro-TEST replies in this thread after he's already joined an NCdot renter corp is priceless. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
407
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 19:35:00 -
[89] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Reading all of Callduron's patriotic pro-TEST replies in this thread after he's already joined an NCdot renter corp is priceless. Remind me to erase all posts if I ever join a "bad" corp/alliance. Otherwise the shaming would do physical damage on my ego. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11881
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 19:51:00 -
[90] - Quote
It's not that he joined a "bad" corp, it's that he made a big deal of going down with the ship and how TEST would rise againGÇöand then he left it. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |
|
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
407
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 20:14:00 -
[91] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:It's not that he joined a "bad" corp, it's that he made a big deal of going down with the ship and how TEST would rise againGÇöand then he left it. Yes, in his case. I'm talking about you reminding me if ever something could happen...
Not that it really matters to me. People will have fun the most remarkable places - just look at Essex. |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
638
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 20:34:00 -
[92] - Quote
In all fairness, you were all trying to convince him to jump ship, so he just took your advice. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Northern Associates.
505
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 14:26:00 -
[93] - Quote
I didn't exactly jump ship. I'm in the same corp, my corp decided we'd rather rent from N3 than continue with Test. It was a tough choice as everyone really likes TEST and I believe a couple of pilots are considering applying to TEST corps and leaving us.
For us it was mostly about economic stability. There's a lot of things you can't really do if you keep moving like PI, reactions, even low-mid range moon mining and we were also very fed up of packing things up and moving. I suspect that even if TEST's deployment to Curse goes well it will be followed by yet another move.
Becoming renters puts us in the weird position of being an asset rather than a defender - if Goons were to invade we could stay docked for a week then politely negotiate a new deal with our new landlords and carry on business as usual. We're a fixture of the system we live in, like an asteroid belt or something. I believe some of our neighbours have lived here for close to a decade under a succession of different landlords.
That's not to say we've given up pvp. We're going to focus in the short term on frig pvp in low sec plexes something a number of us are very keen on. It's very different from nullsec pvp and teaches players a lot about managing our own ships, using traversal and range to edge out an advantage over opponents which I think will be solid knowledge to have when we go back into battleships and battlecruisers. In some ways it's also quite nice to be apolitical - if we shoot someone it's because we feel like shooting people not because our empire is in mortal struggle with the dark empire. I'm hoping we can start scavenging the edges of other people's strat ops - rather like ENL-A did so very effectively at 1-SMEB where they picked off NC. reinforcements.
I realise that my posts and Toshiro's now may seem rather silly to look back on but I enjoyed posting and there always was a slight undercurrent of tongue in cheek braggadocio. And all you lot were doing it too - the difference is your side won so you aren't placed in the position of being embarassed by any daft tubthumping you did when the war hung in the balance.
That said there's considerable credit due to the CFC for the way you won the war so if you want to point at me and gloat enjoy the moment :) CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
79
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 17:45:00 -
[94] - Quote
Callduron wrote:I enjoyed posting
This is the only thing that matters. |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
408
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 17:51:00 -
[95] - Quote
Get ISK, get energy, get back, get space. Or something like that. +1 for a very coolminded and sensible post. |
WarFireV
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
112
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 18:58:00 -
[96] - Quote
There is always renting for people who can't take the heat. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4278
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 04:00:00 -
[97] - Quote
Callduron wrote: I didn't exactly jump ship. I'm in the same corp, my corp decided we'd rather rent from N3 than continue with Test.
Eh well, can't blame you for anything then.
Callduron wrote:if Goons were to invade we could stay docked for a week then politely negotiate a new deal with our new landlords and carry on business as usual. We're a fixture of the system we live in, like an asteroid belt or something. You're fine with that? There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Northern Associates.
508
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 10:48:00 -
[98] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Callduron wrote:
[quote=Callduron]if Goons were to invade we could stay docked for a week then politely negotiate a new deal with our new landlords and carry on business as usual. We're a fixture of the system we live in, like an asteroid belt or something.
You're fine with that?
I think so.
I tend to view Eve from the perspective of a pvper and FC. If Goons invade I'd be thinking about what SEDNA could do to find some gameplay and fun in the situation. Now we're light blue so we can't shoot N3/PL so we'd be shooting the invaders. We also can't join fleets as we're not properly in the alliance so I'd be looking at small gang tactics for harassing larger opponents - bombers, nano, snipers, gate camps etc. I'd be advising my corp on how to get the maximum fun and effectiveness against the invaders.
But we're not actually in sov war as such. So if sov changed in our system it would make sense for us to negotiate a new deal with our conquerors, saving us from having to take our towers down, lose our pocos, move PI (which takes hours to set up) etc.
Once conquered we'd then (hypothetically) be blue to the CFC and neutral to N3.
As a FC looking for content I'd then be looking at how we could harass our neutrals around the fringes of the main sov war battles.
I'm not in charge of SEDNA though, I just help figure out how we fight stuff and take fleets out. Overall policy would come from our CEO and he might pursue other alternatives such as joining N3 as full members or accepting an alternative system in space that hasn't been conquered. He has good RL friends in N3.
How do renters normally manage a change of landlord? Or have renters up till now simply never fought in the sov wars that affect their systems? Until you asked, Alvaria, I'd not really thought of renters as conquerable military assets but in our case at least we probably are. Essentially 1) we shoot neuts 2) we're blue to the people who own our system 3) we dont want to move and 4) we're not part of some space empire as such, merely people who have a temporary business arrangement.
This all sounds terribly disloyal to N3 so I should stress again I'm not in charge. I'm just thinking through the logic of an unfamiliar situation. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Aaron Kyoto
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
7
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 16:14:00 -
[99] - Quote
Renters tend to evac or pay their new overlords to remain a renter.
During the russian war (long time ago), some groups were paying both sides since space was changing hands so rapidly. |
HUGO DRAX
Wraithguard. Dirt Nap Squad.
8
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 22:39:00 -
[100] - Quote
Curse, lots of beautiful scenery and clean vacuum. |
|
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Tribal Band
338
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 20:51:00 -
[101] - Quote
I haven't read mittani's 2-part fail-cascade article in a while. I wish someone had reminded me of it some months ago. Every alliance leader, past present, and future, should read those articles. Free Ripley Weaver! |
WarFireV
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
115
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 05:21:00 -
[102] - Quote
The fail-cascade articles where written to help push along IRCs cascade during the droneland wars at the time. This was back when IRC and ED actually where able to do something in the game. Some of the stuff in those articles was leaned toward them so you have to remember that when reading them. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4588
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 03:50:00 -
[103] - Quote
Did TEST read them There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11918
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:08:00 -
[104] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Callduron wrote:I enjoyed posting This is the only thing that matters. Someone should sponsor this guy. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Northern Associates.
521
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 02:26:00 -
[105] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Rhes wrote:Callduron wrote:I enjoyed posting This is the only thing that matters. Someone should sponsor this guy.
No need. We're doing most of our pvp in low sec in frigates at the moment. My fits run to about 9m which I can afford very comfortably. I got through 3 tonight and we're enjoying ourselves enormously.
Or if you mean sponsor me to post, don't worry, I write plenty about Eve and have my own blog.
And I won't forget CAOD :) CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
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