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Steve Spooner
Mordu's Military Industrial Command Circle-Of-Two
111
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Posted - 2013.08.14 21:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why is there such a large price difference between rattlesnakes and all the other pirate faction battleships? All the other ships are currently worth about twice as much as the rattlesnake in jita, but all of them have the same manufacturing cost and the method of procuring blueprints are also relatively similar, that being DED sites or LP shop, and yet the huge price gap between this and the others. Why oh why oh why? |
Termy Rockling
EVE University Ivy League
66
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Posted - 2013.08.14 22:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
All other piratebattleships are in much bigger demand, rattler is just mediocre droneboat with good tank. |
Arkanon Nerevar
The Riot Formation Public Disorder.
23
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Posted - 2013.08.14 22:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
pretty much what termy said, rattle is ultimately much more niche ship than the other pirate BS, drones hit a ceiling of DPS and the rattles cruise are unbonused so dont add enough to make up for this, rattle can with max skills, 4 drone dmg amps, triple faction BCS hit 1100 DPS, which is baseically mediocre to the other pirate bs & even the faction bs now, oh and drones have no affecting implants. Trust Not in God, but Have Faith in Hail L |
Orlacc
372
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Posted - 2013.08.15 01:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rattlesnake for folks afraid of getting hurt... "Measure Twice, Cut Once." |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
770
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Posted - 2013.08.15 02:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Because EFT warriors make it so. Eve is Real |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
338
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Posted - 2013.08.15 07:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm just going to assume its because they blow up less. |
Ejderdisi
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
0
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Posted - 2013.08.15 10:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
They blow up less.. Well they actually never ever blowup :P
Drone dps is good but mirrored by Dominix far too easily. In that regard even with ishtar. Now eos and god knows with who..
Rattlesnake can do lvl 4s easily... As every other BS...
They have nearly no place in PvP... Too slow and too big to be a swift drone dps ship or too small to have too many drones as in Slowcat doctrines.
Small gang PvP is nearly non existent with BSs. Even if used that way, you are too slow to actually be useful in a small gang. Probably you will be the one dragging the gang down with your slow speed and agility. (Other pirate BSs have unique and very useful pvp specialties)
RS has the greatest tank for BS with the least amount of money...
Thus it has been used in neutralizing high end plexes
Thus it has been used in lvl5s
It is also confirmed that you can fly a RS drunk and can tell the story how you fall asleep in a lvl4 until DT.
......
TLDR : They are mediocre boring ships from a pirate faction which you cant even bling bling to show off cause it doesn't really matter even though they are the greatest looking pirate BS around(at least for me)...
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Ami Quintero
Royal Trading Amarr-Caldari Mercantile Exchange
0
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Posted - 2013.08.15 19:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Steve Spooner wrote:Why oh why oh why?
As you've noted, the supply of the Rattlesnake and the other pirate boats is quite similar, so the discrepancy must be demand-side. There are several reasons why the Rattlesnake is less demanded on the market than its cousins:-
- First of all, the price of the Machariel, Nightmare, and especially the Vindicator are driven by their popularity in incursions. The Rattlesnake doesn't really have a role in incursions - I'm told it makes a rather good anchor in larger sites on account of its splendid tank, but this isn't really something that's necessary.
- Second, it's quite a niche ship. The other Pirate battleships tend to bring something unique to the table, or are otherwise best in their class. The Rattlesnake isn't the only battleship hull that can deploy a full flight of bonused sentries (in fact, both the Gila and Ishtar do so on cruiser hulls). Unlike e.g. the Navy Dominix its high slots aren't bonused so it lacks a little in the gank factor compared to other options.
- Third, and probably most important, its unique selling point is its resilience. It's basically impossible to lose one. Full room agro and fall asleep, no problem. Compare, say, the Vindicator in incursions - stop paying attention for a moment, late broadcast, logis are asleep, Sanshas pop your ship and you need to go to market to replace it. Nobody has ever needed to replace a lost Rattlesnake... Similarly, Machariels make popular gank targets because they're usually bling'd up. Nobody blings Rattlesnakes, and *definitely* nobody wants to gank a Rattlesnake (ugh! It's like bashing a POS!) for the sake of a couple of Arbalest Cruise Launchers and an Invuln II...
In the right light, though, those are pretty much reasons to like the Rattlesnake. It's cheap, it's unkillable, it's easy to fit, easy to fly, and it doesn't need bling to work. Its low price shouldn't be taken as an indicator that it's a *bad* ship. |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
264
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Posted - 2013.08.15 19:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
They are not exciting to fly.
The Nightmare is a DPS monster, looks amazing and sees a lot of action in Incursion fleets. The Vindicator is a meatgrinder at short range, also demanded for Incursions and station games. The Machariel is probably the fastest all-around mission runner, best agility and speed in the BS class, amazing damage projection, makes for a terrific sniper, and shines in PvP as well. The Bhaalgorn drains you quicker than you can spellcheck its name, and stops you dead.
But the Rattlesnake...is just meh. It can sport a massive tank but crawls at molasses speed.
You can't snipe on it, as your drone control range won't go beyond 110Km with perfect skills unless you sacrifice rigs for that (LOL), and its 4 launchers are unbonused.
I've seen a certain Goon using one as a cynobait, which I guess it's OK, but it's PvP uses are very limited and depend on certain circumstances.
Mission runners use them...but they only ever buy ONE, as losing a Rattlesnake to a lvl 4 mission is extremely unlikely.
Ships without PvP uses > no PvP > people don't need replacements that often> demand goes down > price goes down. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1462
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Posted - 2013.08.15 20:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
I wouldn't say they're WORTH twice the 'snake... "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
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nahjustwarpin
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
64
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Posted - 2013.08.15 23:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
ppl saying that rattlesnakes cost less, becuase less ppl buy them should actually look at market data. RS (~42/day) are more often bought than vindis(~29/day) and less than mach (55-60/day), but only rattle is so cheap. Personally i would say it's because of supply from cfc space. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
327
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Posted - 2013.08.16 04:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
nahjustwarpin wrote:ppl saying that rattlesnakes cost less, becuase less ppl buy them should actually look at market data. RS (~42/day) are more often bought than vindis(~29/day) and less than mach (55-60/day), but only rattle is so cheap. Personally i would say it's because of supply from cfc space.
rather safe supply + boring = low price.
if it really can serve as a tank for incursion fleets I wouldn't expect the price to be all that much better as you would only need one per fleet, and I would guess the FC would fly it a bunch of the time. anyways I've only really ever seen one person on the forums try to make that claim so I still have my doubts. You can trust me, I have a monocole |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2583
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Posted - 2013.08.16 12:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
The sum total of this thread is that the Rattlesnkae needs *something* to spruce it up a bit. The other Pirate BSs stand out from the rest of the battleship pack, the 'snake on the other hand has a nice tank and the same bonused drones as soooo many other drone boats.
It's a good ship, not a great one. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
339
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Posted - 2013.08.16 13:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
It still has one thing going for it that I've not found on another boat.
There is NO better boat when you're BLIND drunk. None. Absolutely no substitute.
Anyone claiming another boat is as good needs to learn to drink properly. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1462
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Posted - 2013.08.16 17:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:It still has one thing going for it that I've not found on another boat.
There is NO better boat when you're BLIND drunk. None. Absolutely no substitute.
Anyone claiming another boat is as good needs to learn to drink properly.
I'd disagree... before I stopped drinking I'd take a tanky Tengu into L4's, pick a battleship, hit the 10MN AB, orbit it, and hit F1 on every other ship. Retarget occassionally, and hit F1 again when targets loaded. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Steve Spooner
Mordu's Military Industrial Command Circle-Of-Two
112
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Posted - 2013.08.16 19:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
I really just wish there was a pirate faction battleship that had missile/torps bonused so that it actually mattered what you put in the top slots. I've tried 6 neuts vs 4 launchers and 2 neuts on the test server and every time I have gotten better results with the 6 neuts because eventually I would cap out anything that doesn't use projectiles or isn't a Bhaalgorn, because you can't beat it at its own game. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
340
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Posted - 2013.08.16 19:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:It still has one thing going for it that I've not found on another boat.
There is NO better boat when you're BLIND drunk. None. Absolutely no substitute.
Anyone claiming another boat is as good needs to learn to drink properly. I'd disagree... before I stopped drinking I'd take a tanky Tengu into L4's, pick a battleship, hit the 10MN AB, orbit it, and hit F1 on every other ship. Retarget occassionally, and hit F1 again when targets loaded.
Yeah, but rogue scenery can get you killed.
The floating brick ****house, on the other hand, doesn't have that issue. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1230
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Posted - 2013.08.16 20:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
little known fact but the snake in 1.1 is going to loose its missile velocity bonus and have it raplaced with a 37.5% role bonus to drone optimal range and tracking. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
180
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Posted - 2013.08.16 20:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
This entire thread is full of bad information.
The reason the are cheap is the skill set needed.
Not many players train up missiles and drones to a level high enough to make the RS shine.
It takes more SP to all L5 a well fit rattlesnake then any other sub cap.
They are the best ships for L4's with ease.
I put out 1241.1 dps with mine and it has no range issues. It lands almost every last bit of it's max dps numbers and does it with damage type of choice.
It's the single best anchor/tank in incursions. If you are in a 40 man fleet without one expect losses. Navy scorpions are your only other good chance of not watching people go pop.
They are incredible for pvp but not for the typical run in and dps role. They can sniper with wardens/cruise missiles and still bash on anything fast enough to get up on it. Gardes on the approach and heavies/lights under 20k. All while neuting the small ship that is making the attempt.
They also can passive tank L5's in low sec and spider tank in wormholes.
You won't see a RS shine till you have about 40-50 million sp in related skills. I'd bet no one in this thread so far is specialized in missiles/drones. Hit me up in game if you need more info. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
340
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Posted - 2013.08.16 21:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:I put out 1241.1 dps with mine and it has no range issues. It lands almost every last bit of it's max dps numbers and does it with damage type of choice.
I'll see your 1241 and raise you 1334/1359/1383/1433 (warden/curator/bouncer/garde) with a fleet phoon.
And it has zero issues getting the damage out.
And I dont even have perfect skills.
And that's not a pirate ship either.
The 'snake is good, but when it comes to a DPS pissing contest, it's not as good as the competition. |
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Orlacc
375
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Posted - 2013.08.17 05:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
It is getting turned into a missile Domi. "Measure Twice, Cut Once." |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
780
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Posted - 2013.08.17 05:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
I guess people miss the niche role, which I use it for quite well. Its a great nurse for fleet PvE. I fly both the Fleet tyohoon and the RS. The Phoon has way better numbers, but only completes missions a few percent faster than the RS. But the RS is bitchin in C3/4/5 wormholes where you need a cap budyy, healing, and moderate DPS.
Its WAY overtanked for L4 missions, yes, but L4 missions aren't the only PvE in the game.
And loosing any pirate faction battleship in a mission is shameful, not just th4e RS. Eve is Real |
Speedkermit Damo
Callide Vulpis Curatores Veritatis Alliance
93
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Posted - 2013.08.19 16:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
NC have been using a rattlesnake doctrine with a lot of success (until very recently) in their attacks on Providence over the past week. Don't Panic.
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Silver Getsuga
Quantum Studies Institute
2
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Posted - 2013.08.19 22:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
And by until very recently you mean this http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=19258082 ? BL blobbed them with Oracles lol. |
Ersahi Kir
The Eminence Front SpaceMonkey's Alliance
314
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Posted - 2013.08.19 22:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote:The Nightmare is a DPS monster, looks amazing and sees a lot of action in Incursion fleets. The Vindicator is a meatgrinder at short range, also demanded for Incursions and station games. The Machariel is probably the fastest all-around mission runner, best agility and speed in the BS class, amazing damage projection, makes for a terrific sniper, and shines in PvP as well. The Bhaalgorn drains you quicker than you can spellcheck its name, and stops you dead.
But the Rattlesnake...is just meh. It can sport a massive tank but crawls at molasses speed.
I think this guy hit it.
The other pirate battleships are competing for best in class for PvE, terrifying in PvP, or both.
The rattlesnake is just a shield tanked missile domi. I think the domi does more DPS though. |
Steve Spooner
Mordu's Military Industrial Command Circle-Of-Two
113
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Posted - 2013.08.19 23:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'm curious as to why CCP is so hesitant to have a missile RoF/damage boosted pirate faction ship. I mean it would make sense and you wouldn't be stuck between the CNR or the Fleetphoon. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
632
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 00:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:little known fact but the snake in 1.1 is going to loose its missile velocity bonus and have it raplaced with a 37.5% role bonus to drone optimal range and tracking.
ORLY? |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
265
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 11:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
I wish the Rattlesnake got a DRONE CONTROL RANGE bonus.
Currently, the Dominix can happily MJD away and snipe from afar, while a Rattlesnake pilot cannot project drone damage beyond 108Km, and that's with 2 x T2 Drone link augmentors AND E-war drone interfacing V trained.
Fitting more DLAs in a Rattlesnake implies NOT fitting a full rack of launchers. And I'd feel pretty stupid fitting two or three unbonused launchers on anything and pretending they are useful.
A drone control range bonus would increase the Rattlesnake's usefulness dramatically, putting it right back at the expected level of performance for an expensive pirate BS hull. It doesn't even need the tracking bonus of the new Domi.
It just needs a slightly better drone damage projection, in my opinion. Hardly a game-breaking advantage. |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
735
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Posted - 2013.08.20 13:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ami Quintero wrote: ... Third, and probably most important, its unique selling point is its resilience. It's basically impossible to lose one. .... Nobody has ever needed to replace a lost Rattlesnake...
I remember one case when person actually LOST rattlesnake.... to neutrals in 0.0 |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
798
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Posted - 2013.08.20 16:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote:I wish the Rattlesnake got a DRONE CONTROL RANGE bonus.
Currently, the Dominix can happily MJD away and snipe from afar, while a Rattlesnake pilot cannot project drone damage beyond 108Km, and that's with 2 x T2 Drone link augmentors AND E-war drone interfacing V trained.
Fitting more DLAs in a Rattlesnake implies NOT fitting a full rack of launchers. And I'd feel pretty stupid fitting two or three unbonused launchers on anything and pretending they are useful.
A drone control range bonus would increase the Rattlesnake's usefulness dramatically, putting it right back at the expected level of performance for an expensive pirate BS hull. It doesn't even need the tracking bonus of the new Domi.
It just needs a slightly better drone damage projection, in my opinion. Hardly a game-breaking advantage.
The Dominix is terribly overpowered at the moment, using it as a benchmark is bad.
The 50% velocity bonus should be split in half with a ROF or explosion radius bonus to bring it up to par with other pirate ships.
Eve is Real |
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