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Steve Spooner
Mordu's Military Industrial Command Circle-Of-Two
111
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Posted - 2013.08.14 21:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why is there such a large price difference between rattlesnakes and all the other pirate faction battleships? All the other ships are currently worth about twice as much as the rattlesnake in jita, but all of them have the same manufacturing cost and the method of procuring blueprints are also relatively similar, that being DED sites or LP shop, and yet the huge price gap between this and the others. Why oh why oh why? |
Termy Rockling
EVE University Ivy League
66
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 22:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
All other piratebattleships are in much bigger demand, rattler is just mediocre droneboat with good tank. |
Arkanon Nerevar
The Riot Formation Public Disorder.
23
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 22:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
pretty much what termy said, rattle is ultimately much more niche ship than the other pirate BS, drones hit a ceiling of DPS and the rattles cruise are unbonused so dont add enough to make up for this, rattle can with max skills, 4 drone dmg amps, triple faction BCS hit 1100 DPS, which is baseically mediocre to the other pirate bs & even the faction bs now, oh and drones have no affecting implants. Trust Not in God, but Have Faith in Hail L |
Orlacc
372
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 01:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rattlesnake for folks afraid of getting hurt... "Measure Twice, Cut Once." |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
770
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 02:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Because EFT warriors make it so. Eve is Real |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
338
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Posted - 2013.08.15 07:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm just going to assume its because they blow up less. |
Ejderdisi
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 10:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
They blow up less.. Well they actually never ever blowup :P
Drone dps is good but mirrored by Dominix far too easily. In that regard even with ishtar. Now eos and god knows with who..
Rattlesnake can do lvl 4s easily... As every other BS...
They have nearly no place in PvP... Too slow and too big to be a swift drone dps ship or too small to have too many drones as in Slowcat doctrines.
Small gang PvP is nearly non existent with BSs. Even if used that way, you are too slow to actually be useful in a small gang. Probably you will be the one dragging the gang down with your slow speed and agility. (Other pirate BSs have unique and very useful pvp specialties)
RS has the greatest tank for BS with the least amount of money...
Thus it has been used in neutralizing high end plexes
Thus it has been used in lvl5s
It is also confirmed that you can fly a RS drunk and can tell the story how you fall asleep in a lvl4 until DT.
......
TLDR : They are mediocre boring ships from a pirate faction which you cant even bling bling to show off cause it doesn't really matter even though they are the greatest looking pirate BS around(at least for me)...
|
Ami Quintero
Royal Trading Amarr-Caldari Mercantile Exchange
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 19:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Steve Spooner wrote:Why oh why oh why?
As you've noted, the supply of the Rattlesnake and the other pirate boats is quite similar, so the discrepancy must be demand-side. There are several reasons why the Rattlesnake is less demanded on the market than its cousins:-
- First of all, the price of the Machariel, Nightmare, and especially the Vindicator are driven by their popularity in incursions. The Rattlesnake doesn't really have a role in incursions - I'm told it makes a rather good anchor in larger sites on account of its splendid tank, but this isn't really something that's necessary.
- Second, it's quite a niche ship. The other Pirate battleships tend to bring something unique to the table, or are otherwise best in their class. The Rattlesnake isn't the only battleship hull that can deploy a full flight of bonused sentries (in fact, both the Gila and Ishtar do so on cruiser hulls). Unlike e.g. the Navy Dominix its high slots aren't bonused so it lacks a little in the gank factor compared to other options.
- Third, and probably most important, its unique selling point is its resilience. It's basically impossible to lose one. Full room agro and fall asleep, no problem. Compare, say, the Vindicator in incursions - stop paying attention for a moment, late broadcast, logis are asleep, Sanshas pop your ship and you need to go to market to replace it. Nobody has ever needed to replace a lost Rattlesnake... Similarly, Machariels make popular gank targets because they're usually bling'd up. Nobody blings Rattlesnakes, and *definitely* nobody wants to gank a Rattlesnake (ugh! It's like bashing a POS!) for the sake of a couple of Arbalest Cruise Launchers and an Invuln II...
In the right light, though, those are pretty much reasons to like the Rattlesnake. It's cheap, it's unkillable, it's easy to fit, easy to fly, and it doesn't need bling to work. Its low price shouldn't be taken as an indicator that it's a *bad* ship. |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
264
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 19:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
They are not exciting to fly.
The Nightmare is a DPS monster, looks amazing and sees a lot of action in Incursion fleets. The Vindicator is a meatgrinder at short range, also demanded for Incursions and station games. The Machariel is probably the fastest all-around mission runner, best agility and speed in the BS class, amazing damage projection, makes for a terrific sniper, and shines in PvP as well. The Bhaalgorn drains you quicker than you can spellcheck its name, and stops you dead.
But the Rattlesnake...is just meh. It can sport a massive tank but crawls at molasses speed.
You can't snipe on it, as your drone control range won't go beyond 110Km with perfect skills unless you sacrifice rigs for that (LOL), and its 4 launchers are unbonused.
I've seen a certain Goon using one as a cynobait, which I guess it's OK, but it's PvP uses are very limited and depend on certain circumstances.
Mission runners use them...but they only ever buy ONE, as losing a Rattlesnake to a lvl 4 mission is extremely unlikely.
Ships without PvP uses > no PvP > people don't need replacements that often> demand goes down > price goes down. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1462
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 20:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
I wouldn't say they're WORTH twice the 'snake... "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
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nahjustwarpin
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
64
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 23:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
ppl saying that rattlesnakes cost less, becuase less ppl buy them should actually look at market data. RS (~42/day) are more often bought than vindis(~29/day) and less than mach (55-60/day), but only rattle is so cheap. Personally i would say it's because of supply from cfc space. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
327
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 04:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
nahjustwarpin wrote:ppl saying that rattlesnakes cost less, becuase less ppl buy them should actually look at market data. RS (~42/day) are more often bought than vindis(~29/day) and less than mach (55-60/day), but only rattle is so cheap. Personally i would say it's because of supply from cfc space.
rather safe supply + boring = low price.
if it really can serve as a tank for incursion fleets I wouldn't expect the price to be all that much better as you would only need one per fleet, and I would guess the FC would fly it a bunch of the time. anyways I've only really ever seen one person on the forums try to make that claim so I still have my doubts. You can trust me, I have a monocole |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2583
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 12:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
The sum total of this thread is that the Rattlesnkae needs *something* to spruce it up a bit. The other Pirate BSs stand out from the rest of the battleship pack, the 'snake on the other hand has a nice tank and the same bonused drones as soooo many other drone boats.
It's a good ship, not a great one. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
339
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 13:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
It still has one thing going for it that I've not found on another boat.
There is NO better boat when you're BLIND drunk. None. Absolutely no substitute.
Anyone claiming another boat is as good needs to learn to drink properly. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1462
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 17:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:It still has one thing going for it that I've not found on another boat.
There is NO better boat when you're BLIND drunk. None. Absolutely no substitute.
Anyone claiming another boat is as good needs to learn to drink properly.
I'd disagree... before I stopped drinking I'd take a tanky Tengu into L4's, pick a battleship, hit the 10MN AB, orbit it, and hit F1 on every other ship. Retarget occassionally, and hit F1 again when targets loaded. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Steve Spooner
Mordu's Military Industrial Command Circle-Of-Two
112
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 19:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
I really just wish there was a pirate faction battleship that had missile/torps bonused so that it actually mattered what you put in the top slots. I've tried 6 neuts vs 4 launchers and 2 neuts on the test server and every time I have gotten better results with the 6 neuts because eventually I would cap out anything that doesn't use projectiles or isn't a Bhaalgorn, because you can't beat it at its own game. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
340
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 19:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:It still has one thing going for it that I've not found on another boat.
There is NO better boat when you're BLIND drunk. None. Absolutely no substitute.
Anyone claiming another boat is as good needs to learn to drink properly. I'd disagree... before I stopped drinking I'd take a tanky Tengu into L4's, pick a battleship, hit the 10MN AB, orbit it, and hit F1 on every other ship. Retarget occassionally, and hit F1 again when targets loaded.
Yeah, but rogue scenery can get you killed.
The floating brick ****house, on the other hand, doesn't have that issue. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1230
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 20:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
little known fact but the snake in 1.1 is going to loose its missile velocity bonus and have it raplaced with a 37.5% role bonus to drone optimal range and tracking. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
180
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 20:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
This entire thread is full of bad information.
The reason the are cheap is the skill set needed.
Not many players train up missiles and drones to a level high enough to make the RS shine.
It takes more SP to all L5 a well fit rattlesnake then any other sub cap.
They are the best ships for L4's with ease.
I put out 1241.1 dps with mine and it has no range issues. It lands almost every last bit of it's max dps numbers and does it with damage type of choice.
It's the single best anchor/tank in incursions. If you are in a 40 man fleet without one expect losses. Navy scorpions are your only other good chance of not watching people go pop.
They are incredible for pvp but not for the typical run in and dps role. They can sniper with wardens/cruise missiles and still bash on anything fast enough to get up on it. Gardes on the approach and heavies/lights under 20k. All while neuting the small ship that is making the attempt.
They also can passive tank L5's in low sec and spider tank in wormholes.
You won't see a RS shine till you have about 40-50 million sp in related skills. I'd bet no one in this thread so far is specialized in missiles/drones. Hit me up in game if you need more info. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
340
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 21:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:I put out 1241.1 dps with mine and it has no range issues. It lands almost every last bit of it's max dps numbers and does it with damage type of choice.
I'll see your 1241 and raise you 1334/1359/1383/1433 (warden/curator/bouncer/garde) with a fleet phoon.
And it has zero issues getting the damage out.
And I dont even have perfect skills.
And that's not a pirate ship either.
The 'snake is good, but when it comes to a DPS pissing contest, it's not as good as the competition. |
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Orlacc
375
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 05:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
It is getting turned into a missile Domi. "Measure Twice, Cut Once." |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
780
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 05:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
I guess people miss the niche role, which I use it for quite well. Its a great nurse for fleet PvE. I fly both the Fleet tyohoon and the RS. The Phoon has way better numbers, but only completes missions a few percent faster than the RS. But the RS is bitchin in C3/4/5 wormholes where you need a cap budyy, healing, and moderate DPS.
Its WAY overtanked for L4 missions, yes, but L4 missions aren't the only PvE in the game.
And loosing any pirate faction battleship in a mission is shameful, not just th4e RS. Eve is Real |
Speedkermit Damo
Callide Vulpis Curatores Veritatis Alliance
93
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
NC have been using a rattlesnake doctrine with a lot of success (until very recently) in their attacks on Providence over the past week. Don't Panic.
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Silver Getsuga
Quantum Studies Institute
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 22:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
And by until very recently you mean this http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=19258082 ? BL blobbed them with Oracles lol. |
Ersahi Kir
The Eminence Front SpaceMonkey's Alliance
314
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 22:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote:The Nightmare is a DPS monster, looks amazing and sees a lot of action in Incursion fleets. The Vindicator is a meatgrinder at short range, also demanded for Incursions and station games. The Machariel is probably the fastest all-around mission runner, best agility and speed in the BS class, amazing damage projection, makes for a terrific sniper, and shines in PvP as well. The Bhaalgorn drains you quicker than you can spellcheck its name, and stops you dead.
But the Rattlesnake...is just meh. It can sport a massive tank but crawls at molasses speed.
I think this guy hit it.
The other pirate battleships are competing for best in class for PvE, terrifying in PvP, or both.
The rattlesnake is just a shield tanked missile domi. I think the domi does more DPS though. |
Steve Spooner
Mordu's Military Industrial Command Circle-Of-Two
113
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 23:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'm curious as to why CCP is so hesitant to have a missile RoF/damage boosted pirate faction ship. I mean it would make sense and you wouldn't be stuck between the CNR or the Fleetphoon. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
632
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 00:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:little known fact but the snake in 1.1 is going to loose its missile velocity bonus and have it raplaced with a 37.5% role bonus to drone optimal range and tracking.
ORLY? |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
265
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 11:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
I wish the Rattlesnake got a DRONE CONTROL RANGE bonus.
Currently, the Dominix can happily MJD away and snipe from afar, while a Rattlesnake pilot cannot project drone damage beyond 108Km, and that's with 2 x T2 Drone link augmentors AND E-war drone interfacing V trained.
Fitting more DLAs in a Rattlesnake implies NOT fitting a full rack of launchers. And I'd feel pretty stupid fitting two or three unbonused launchers on anything and pretending they are useful.
A drone control range bonus would increase the Rattlesnake's usefulness dramatically, putting it right back at the expected level of performance for an expensive pirate BS hull. It doesn't even need the tracking bonus of the new Domi.
It just needs a slightly better drone damage projection, in my opinion. Hardly a game-breaking advantage. |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
735
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 13:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ami Quintero wrote: ... Third, and probably most important, its unique selling point is its resilience. It's basically impossible to lose one. .... Nobody has ever needed to replace a lost Rattlesnake...
I remember one case when person actually LOST rattlesnake.... to neutrals in 0.0 |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
798
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 16:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote:I wish the Rattlesnake got a DRONE CONTROL RANGE bonus.
Currently, the Dominix can happily MJD away and snipe from afar, while a Rattlesnake pilot cannot project drone damage beyond 108Km, and that's with 2 x T2 Drone link augmentors AND E-war drone interfacing V trained.
Fitting more DLAs in a Rattlesnake implies NOT fitting a full rack of launchers. And I'd feel pretty stupid fitting two or three unbonused launchers on anything and pretending they are useful.
A drone control range bonus would increase the Rattlesnake's usefulness dramatically, putting it right back at the expected level of performance for an expensive pirate BS hull. It doesn't even need the tracking bonus of the new Domi.
It just needs a slightly better drone damage projection, in my opinion. Hardly a game-breaking advantage.
The Dominix is terribly overpowered at the moment, using it as a benchmark is bad.
The 50% velocity bonus should be split in half with a ROF or explosion radius bonus to bring it up to par with other pirate ships.
Eve is Real |
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Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
265
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 17:20:00 -
[31] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:
The Dominix is terribly overpowered at the moment, using it as a benchmark is bad.
No. It's not terribly overpowered. And its damage projection potential I mentioned was there BEFORE the changes, by the way.
As I said, a drone CONTROL RANGE bonus to the Rattlesnake:
1) Would make it more useful in both PvP and PvE 2) Would NOT be a drone tracking speed bonus like the Domi, which Domi whiners would surely appreciate.
So, when it comes to damage projection, I don't need to use the Dominix as a benchmark. Check the projection potential of practically any Battleship commonly seen in PvE. There's something odd with the Rattlesnake which its (potentially) humongous tank cannot compensate.
It uses 4 unbonused launchers, and drones with very limited range, for its DPS. Both weapon systems have very obvious drawbacks compared to turrets, and those drawbacks really "shine" in the Rattlesnake. Which could, in part, explain why it's currently worth between a third and a half of a Vindicator hull.
Quote:The 50% velocity bonus should be split in half with a ROF or explosion radius bonus to bring it up to par with other pirate ships.
Would be nice, as well.
|
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
348
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 18:08:00 -
[32] - Quote
The dominix is very definately overpowered in its peer group. No other BS in the camp is even close for overall projection.
Hell the thing is seriously considered amongst the highest end BS and you get change out of 150m for it - it's being compared, often favourably with 500m-1b hulls.
Even with a range boost, the 'snake cant compete because a domi just drops gardes and laughs at stuff melting. The 'snake cant get the same damage out to the same ranges even with a full rack of DLAs. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
801
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 06:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
Quote:No. It's not terribly overpowered. And its damage projection potential I mentioned was there BEFORE the changes, by the way.
Its the most overpowered ship in the game ATM.
The damage projection was not there before they changed the damage projection, that statement is ridiculous. Eve is Real |
Ambassador Spock
Starfleet Academy Red Squad
11
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 16:46:00 -
[34] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:And loosing any pirate faction battleship in a mission is shameful, not just th4e RS.
I lost a Rattlesnake in a mission a couple weeks ago... It was the second-to-last combat mission in the Gallente Epic Arc (the one with 12 or so 1,500 m/sec Veteran BS with the insanely high dps cruise missiles) , and my skills are not perfect but still...
*walks away with head down in shame*
-á-- -á- Ambassador Spock
"Vulcans never bluff." |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
192
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 16:53:00 -
[35] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote: As I said, a drone CONTROL RANGE bonus to the Rattlesnake:
1) Would make it more useful in both PvP and PvE 2) Would NOT be a drone tracking speed bonus like the Domi, which Domi whiners would surely appreciate.
This is a really stupid idea. The RS already has two utility High slots for Drone Links. I do not need or want more control range. I believe the RS needs the Drone Tracking bonus the Domi has. I couldn't care less what Domi owners think about that.
Make it happen CCP.
Plus +ºa change, plus c'est la m+¬me chose |
Lady Manus
Lumen et Umbra
19
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 16:57:00 -
[36] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:It still has one thing going for it that I've not found on another boat.
There is NO better boat when you're BLIND drunk. None. Absolutely no substitute.
Anyone claiming another boat is as good needs to learn to drink properly.
Absolutely wrong.... the RS tank is only apparent due to its massive Sig radius, if you wanna drink tank a Domi or an Ishtar.
Dont bring your RS in a ded 5+ or you'll pop fast.
... ah and yes ima Grappa drunk atm.
LM |
Steve Spooner
Mordu's Military Industrial Command Circle-Of-Two
114
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 15:18:00 -
[37] - Quote
Bah no changes to rattlesnake on test server. |
Orlacc
385
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 15:56:00 -
[38] - Quote
Steve Spooner wrote:Bah no changes to rattlesnake on test server.
Why would there be?
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/28-ships-later "Measure Twice, Cut Once." |
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
15
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 13:08:00 -
[39] - Quote
I fly Rattler so clearly it needs buffed. Trolling aside it's missing something indeed. I think it needs a velocity buff IMHO. Also the buff to missile velocity only has real applications to torpedoes as 4 unbuffed launchers are a joke in pvp and lackluster in pve since missiles synergize poorly with drones due to their delayed damage. Cruise missiles with 50% faster flight time get to almost twice your base targetting range. The amount of face palm sillyness that comes with the hull detract a lot from how respectable it is in pve and how well it performs even compared to the cookiecutter BS out there. For the love of science though, give that boat a velocity buff it's like the only pirate ship slower then its standard BS cousins and that I call rubbish. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
813
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 00:27:00 -
[40] - Quote
Or explosion radius & explosion velocity (see a few posts up).
Its really a great ship. There is no other "Jack of all trades but master of none". People just get pissed about the "master of none" part because they are min/maxers. Eve is Real |
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Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
267
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 09:14:00 -
[41] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote: This is a really stupid idea. The RS already has two utility High slots for Drone Links. I do not need or want more control range. I believe the RS needs the Drone Tracking bonus the Domi has. I couldn't care less what Domi owners think about that.
Make it happen CCP.
No, it does not need to be a super tanking shield new Dominix. It's what you WANT (and so do I), but it doesn't NEED it.
The Ishtar is picking that bonus soon, and the Gila apparently not.
To me, the worst thing about the Rattlesnake is its drone damage projection. Even if you increase your locking range via valuable rigs or midslots, your Wardens or Bouncers don't shoot beyond 110Km.
Your pitiful 4 Launchers with unbonused damage or ROF can reach...200KM, was it?
Doesn't make sense to have launchers hitting at twice your standard locking range, and your main weapon system literally incapable of sniping without completely foregoing the launchers.
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Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
15
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 10:08:00 -
[42] - Quote
@Darius that is exactly my sentiment. I don't want another domi but after consideration it could use the domi bonus but watered down like previously suggested with minor bonuses to lock range (and a flight speed increase). Problem as is is that both rattler and navy domi are stuck as an ancient heavy drone platform conceptually. I mention the domi buff simply because the rattler is still a pirate ship with the oddest (least used) and most SP intensive skillset of all of them. Flying a rattler is a commitment like no other. Maybe this is more a nerf domi solution/whine but bottom line would be increase lock range, remove the torpedo bonus and increase flight speed, those really are essentials. Rattlers tankyness is awesome but its really just a set of training wheels for low skill/kids don't give daddy time instead of sleeping/or some extreme thing in null sec or epic arcs. But the real sought after attributes; mobility and dps don't come from a now 20% tank bonus. |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
267
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 10:27:00 -
[43] - Quote
Marcus Walkuris wrote:@Darius that is exactly my sentiment. I don't want another domi but after consideration it could use the domi bonus but watered down like previously suggested with minor bonuses to lock range (and a flight speed increase). Problem as is is that both rattler and navy domi are stuck as an ancient heavy drone platform conceptually. I mention the domi buff simply because the rattler is still a pirate ship with the oddest (least used) and most SP intensive skillset of all of them. Flying a rattler is a commitment like no other. Maybe this is more a nerf domi solution/whine but bottom line would be increase lock range, remove the torpedo bonus and increase flight speed, those really are essentials. Rattlers tankyness is awesome but its really just a set of training wheels for low skill/kids don't give daddy time instead of sleeping/or some extreme thing in null sec or epic arcs. But the real sought after attributes; mobility and dps don't come from a now 20% tank bonus.
I'm looking at alternatives. CCP won't resort to the "easy" solution of giving the Rattlesnake the same set of drone bonus that the Dominix got, so it's useless to keep mentioning that.
I suggested the drone control range, because it's generally considered "not dangerous". Nobody would say it makes the Rattlesnake overpowered.
And also because standard Cruises on a Rattlesnake hit past 200Km without modules, implants or rigs for damage projection (double of its locking range, which is a waste), but the drones are restricted to 100ish Km, even the longest reaching ones (Wardens). This looks like a sort of inconsistency.
If you have any other proposals to bring the Rattlesnake in line with the rest of the pirate battleships (other than asking for the Dominix tracking bonus), I'm all for them too. |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
193
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 10:42:00 -
[44] - Quote
Marcus Walkuris wrote:I fly Rattler so clearly it needs buffed. Trolling aside it's missing something indeed. I think it needs a velocity buff IMHO. Also the buff to missile velocity only has real applications to torpedoes as 4 unbuffed launchers are a joke in pvp and lackluster in pve since missiles synergize poorly with drones due to their delayed damage. Cruise missiles with 50% faster flight time get to almost twice your base targetting range. The amount of face palm sillyness that comes with the hull detract a lot from how respectable it is in pve and how well it performs even compared to the cookiecutter BS out there. For the love of science though, give that boat a velocity buff it's like the only pirate ship slower then its standard BS cousins and that I call rubbish.
Oh FFS! Wake up man! It's a Drone hull, the bonuses should be Drone bonuses before missile bonuses. Plus +ºa change, plus c'est la m+¬me chose |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
193
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 10:49:00 -
[45] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote: I'm looking at alternatives. CCP won't resort to the "easy" solution of giving the Rattlesnake the same set of drone bonus that the Dominix got, so it's useless to keep mentioning that.
Why? Because you say so? There is NO reason whatsoever why the RS shouldn't have the same Drone bonuses as the Domi. It's a Drone Pirate BS FFS - if anything it should have the best Drone bonuses of any ship in the game.
Quote:I suggested the drone control range, because it's generally considered "not dangerous". Nobody would say it makes the Rattlesnake overpowered.
It's a stupid suggestion. The bonus should be something useful - Drone Control Range can be easily achieved with a couple of Drone Links. If they give the RS the bonuses you want then what are you going to put in the utility Highs? The Domi Drone bonuses are what the RS should get.
Quote:And also because standard Cruises on a Rattlesnake hit past 200Km without modules, implants or rigs for damage projection (double of its locking range, which is a waste), but the drones are restricted to 100ish Km, even the longest reaching ones (Wardens). This looks like a sort of inconsistency.
WTF are you on about? I can make Bouncers hit out to over 180KM with 3 Faction omnis. If CCP want to do something useful with CMs on the RS, then they need to either a. give it more Launchers, or b. give the Launchers a damage bonus and Explosive Radius reduction bonus. Personally, I'd rather see the RS be a fully focused Drone hull.
Quote:If you have any other proposals to bring the Rattlesnake in line with the rest of the pirate battleships (other than asking for the Dominix tracking bonus), I'm all for them too.
You need to accept you're in the minority as far as the Domi bonuses are concerned. Plus +ºa change, plus c'est la m+¬me chose |
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
15
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:29:00 -
[46] - Quote
I wouldn't worry about zomg OP because "others",watered down I think it would do just fine. Allowing people to fit a sebo if needed with 25% instead of 50% like on the domi. Bottom line increased lock range and a flight speed increase. As is rattlers are like asteroids almost useless to fit a prop mod when your base speed should just state "sad". Don't forget the rattler is still a pirate ship and no amount of "turret elitism" should stand in your way to see a worthy balanced rattler. Lets not forget this is the age of RNI domi's neither pirate and one standard BS. Rattlers tank has been lowered, even if it was made faster it still wouldn't be fast or agile, it is stationary and that alone trades off for its tank. That right there means you jump into a vindi in fleets, who multi boxes drone boats in pvp? Who gets chased down by a rattler? I agree no domi clone but let people scream OP lord knows that never happens. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
344
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 13:59:00 -
[47] - Quote
Steve Spooner wrote:I really just wish there was a pirate faction battleship that had missile/torps bonused so that it actually mattered what you put in the top slots. I've tried 6 neuts vs 4 launchers and 2 neuts on the test server and every time I have gotten better results with the 6 neuts because eventually I would cap out anything that doesn't use projectiles or isn't a Bhaalgorn, because you can't beat it at its own game.
it matters to the rattlesnake.
Just dont use weapons in your high slots. Use RR modules to pimp tank your drones. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
15
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 21:15:00 -
[48] - Quote
No need to get your panties in a bunch John :P. I just am really satisfied with my rattler as is although I don't feel it is quite balanced yet. It is the reward of flying my first pirate faction ship and BS to boot and being everything I expected even-though I see its obvious flaws. Which I found to be an inability to fit a sebo/lack of targeting range for the long range sentries to apply their range properly. As in you can fire up to 90 km and target only a couple kilometers more, giving too short a window to target approaching ships. Thinking it over slowly and adding all things up I can see a "tanky domi" rattlesnake working. Now when you look at standard BS, hey have 2 bonuses and pirate ships take 2 bonus with a third pirate one. All 3 of these usually amplify each-other heavily AND are strong bonuses by themselves. Looking at the dominix's bonus it is 2 bonuses as all standard BS get, one of which the rattlesnake inherits as is common with pirate ships. What is highly uncommon about the rattlesnake is that it has only 2 effective bonuses with the pirate bonus being F.U.B.A.R. It doesn't stack damage through for example Web + tracking + damage (vindi), or damage + damage + tracking (nightmare) rate of fire + damage + falloff (machariel). The Rattler starts out with a much larger base tank with about 33%% more shields then most pirate ships paired with 20% damage reduction, but this is strongly offset by the fact it is a sentry boat and therefor stationary. In my opinion this is sorta kinda a fix to an unpolished mechanic rather then simple pwnage (sentries i.m.h.o. should be able to return but not be repositioned).
IN summary: You have one Caldari buff; tankyness + higher base tank, offset by being stationary leaving a sketchy +1. Then you have the plain bonus for a drone boat from Gallente. When it comes to the 4 missile launchers you see a trend that is common in pirate faction ships the secondary weapon-system is usually not strong like 75 and 100 drone bandwidth for other pirate ships without bonuses. But you don't see a nightmare with a bonus to drone flight speed (which would be a much better one then 50% faster large missiles, no bonus at all in todays world).
So 2 bonuses instead of 3 and none amplify the others, (disclaimer; damage does amplify tank it is one sided and already very offset by its lack of speed+stationary play making for a very situational benefit). In pvp there is the matter of its tank adding nothing to drones, and again drones are clunky. So giving it the second Dominix bonus is not a given but a very likely choice as it makes room for a sebo, raising applied dps well without increasing maximum dps making up for its non multiplicative bonuses. A drone control range buff is in order as to not start wiping launchers for DCU destroying the rattlers uniqueness (although that uniqueness would be just fine with turret slots as well as/instead of launchers). A minor movement speed buff to make a more holistic end package for this stationary boat. But I have a hard time making a calculated decision about how much of a "Domi buff" it should get since every pirate ship has a VERY distinctly different bonus which gives it all the more to love. I would love the domi buff ^^ but getting half of it or 66% would make me smile too, all in all Rattler could use some love and is hard to compare to most boats, but lacking for sure. |
Steve Spooner
Mordu's Military Industrial Command Circle-Of-Two
114
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 21:19:00 -
[49] - Quote
So after playing around against all other battleships on test server the rattlensnake has lost every fight. Wasn't really close. Vindi chewed everything, Bhaalgorn was a little jackass, Nightmare did the same, couldn't hit the machariel with jack, and against another rattler it was a brickfest. I want the rattlesnake to be useful and fun for pvp but that stupid worthless velocity bonus can be so much better. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
816
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:57:00 -
[50] - Quote
Steve Spooner wrote:So after playing around against all other battleships on test server the rattlensnake has lost every fight. Wasn't really close. Vindi chewed everything, Bhaalgorn was a little jackass, Nightmare did the same, couldn't hit the machariel with jack, and against another rattler it was a brickfest. I want the rattlesnake to be useful and fun for pvp but that stupid worthless velocity bonus can be so much better.
Because solo PvP in pirate faction battleships gets chicks. Eve is Real |
|
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
267
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 09:58:00 -
[51] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Why? Because you say so? There is NO reason whatsoever why the RS shouldn't have the same Drone bonuses as the Domi. It's a Drone Pirate BS FFS - if anything it should have the best Drone bonuses of any ship in the game.
Why? Because you say so? The "best" drone bonuses are, as everything, situational. You seem to imply that NOTHING would bring the Rattlesnake in line with other pirate battleships other than buffing the tracking of its drones.
John Ratcliffe wrote: It's a stupid suggestion. The bonus should be something useful - Drone Control Range can be easily achieved with a couple of Drone Links. If they give the RS the bonuses you want then what are you going to put in the utility Highs? The Domi Drone bonuses are what the RS should get.
No, it's not. Two T2 Drone link augmentors with PERFECT skills allow you to shoot at less than 110Km with Wardens. Increasing its base drone control range doesn't necessarily imply ELIMINATING the need for those two DLAs. But the range now, WITH those utility highs devoted to DLAs, suck.
John Ratcliffe wrote:WTF are you on about? I can make Bouncers hit out to over 180KM with 3 Faction omnis
No, YOU CANNOT, because your drone control range will barely get past 100 Km unless you completely forgo your FOUR launchers. You cannot shoot with Sentries beyond your drone control range, whatever your Bouncer stats read when you click on it.
John Ratcliffe wrote:If CCP want to do something useful with CMs on the RS, then they need to either a. give it more Launchers, or b. give the Launchers a damage bonus and Explosive Radius reduction bonus. Personally, I'd rather see the RS be a fully focused Drone hull.
I don't care whether they buff the drones, or the cruises. I have very good skills with both. I still don't see the drone control range buff as stupid; just as valid as your suggestions.
John Ratcliffe wrote:You need to accept you're in the minority as far as the Domi bonuses are concerned.
I don't think I am a minority. As I explained, I would LOVE to see the Rattlesnake gaining the Dominix bonus to drone tracking. Absolutely. I am a Rattlesnake and drone user. I merely stated that I HIGHLY DOUBTED CCP would choose that path.
|
Steve Spooner
Mordu's Military Industrial Command Circle-Of-Two
114
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 15:30:00 -
[52] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Steve Spooner wrote:So after playing around against all other battleships on test server the rattlensnake has lost every fight. Wasn't really close. Vindi chewed everything, Bhaalgorn was a little jackass, Nightmare did the same, couldn't hit the machariel with jack, and against another rattler it was a brickfest. I want the rattlesnake to be useful and fun for pvp but that stupid worthless velocity bonus can be so much better. Because solo PvP in pirate faction battleships gets chicks.
You dare doubt my internet space ship honor? |
Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
516
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:16:00 -
[53] - Quote
+1 utility high. Change +50% Missile velocity bonus for a +50% missile damage bonus
Right now, I don't use the missile launchers *at all*
On my PvE fit My highs are DLAs, large shield transfers (for keeping sentires alive, when they get the aggro), Nos, and a tractor beam.
Though I do currently favor the Domi with gardes*. I don't even have tech II or gall Bs V yet, Im sad I'm going to miss out on the uber garde II range with BS lvl 5. *Used on missions where Ewar may cripple my nightmare or mach's applied DPS
I disagree that people don't bling it... I had a spare pith C type and CN invuln lying around after I upgraded my incursion fit... onto the rattler it went for Moar tank. I had a CN PDU, I started wanting cap and less passive tank due to my sentries soaking up so much DPS, the CN PDU replaced a SPR Fed Navy omni tracking links
Don't have T2 sentry skills yet - faction sentries
Now if they'd just introduce some Fed Navy and Dread Guristas Drone damage amplifiers... |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
823
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 07:08:00 -
[54] - Quote
Look at this post ^^...
My mach is lackluster with average mods compared to what it is with good mods. So is my TFI. I recently broke the 3 up and took the RS to Caldari space to run my kill everything missions that the Tengu doesn't blitz. And when I put an ACS on it and re rigged it it sucked in comparison (to a 3 slot deadspace tank). Short story long, you can't compare faction/deadspace/officer fits to vanilla fits when comparing ships. When you "bling out" the RS for PvE it is absolute beastmode 2nd only to the Mach. It completes missions/complexes/anomalies in the same time or less as the TFI. It has better projection of slightly less DPS.
Every ship cant be good at solo PvP, but ppl are mentioning the Balghorn like its a good solo PvP ship? Apples oranges much? RS not a good gang PvP ship? Are you kidding?
All in all I think the Domi will still be a bit OP after the nerf tomorrow, and the RS will be ever so slightly underpowered compared to the other pirate hulls, but right on the money for the price. Eve is Real |
Enduros
Ostian Industries Hand of Despair
11
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 10:14:00 -
[55] - Quote
I use a rattle in null and it would be hard to replace with anything as versatile. I use it as a tank/logi with max drone dmg. Maybe a varg or something after rebalance.
I have to agree the missile bonus is useless. 4 unbonused launchers are meh. I would be very happy if it got some sort of drone bonus. Personally I'd prefer control range, it's mostly used with sentries anyway and this would really free up highs. Let domi have drone range otherwise there's no point in getting a domi over a rattle ever.
Domi's drone range is limited by how many links you can fit. Limit rattle with how many omnis you can fit in the same time making useful utililty highs available
Special Ability: 50km bonus to drone control range Caldari Battleship Skill Bonus: 4% shield resistance per level Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage per skill level
Everything else might as well remain the same. |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
195
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 12:25:00 -
[56] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote:No, YOU CANNOT, because your drone control range will barely get past 100 Km unless you completely forgo your FOUR launchers. You cannot shoot with Sentries beyond your drone control range, whatever your Bouncer stats read when you click on it.
How many missions need you to shoot past 100KM? There's a couple that spring to mind that have NPCs between 100 - 110 KM, but that's it. Certainly as far as Caldari space is concerned.
I was messing around with a T1 Domi fit in EFT during my lunch break today and to prove a point, made this:
Bouncer: Optimal (147.5KM) FO (42KM) Drone Control Range: (180KM) Targeting Range: (176.5KM)
[Dominix, PVE] Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Corpus A-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Corpus A-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener Corpus A-Type Large Armor Repairer Signal Amplifier II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Gist A-Type 100MN Afterburner Cap Recharger II
Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Small Shield Transporter II
Large Anti-Explosive Pump II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Garde II x5 Bouncer II x5
You couldn't get anything close to that package on a RS. It's a pointless fit though for PVE because you'd never need that much range, but it makes my point.
Plus +ºa change, plus c'est la m+¬me chose |
Enduros
Ostian Industries Hand of Despair
11
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 13:21:00 -
[57] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote: You couldn't get anything close to that package on a RS. It's a pointless fit though for PVE because you'd never need that much range, but it makes my point.
Pve isn't just your Lvl4s. MJD has completely changed how DED sites are run. And even anoms. You need all the range you can get. Tanking 500 dps at range or 3000 dps at point blank makes a huge difference. RS has both the tank and spank to handle them solo, most of them anyway. While 170km is nice the fit itself isn't useful. The scenarios where being at 170km is good also come with lots of spank that will turn your whale into a wreck on warp-in.
Meanwhile RS can do wonders at 130km while still being very tanky. If you swap the bonus from missiles to drone control you lose nothing from missiles. You do however extend the actual range of the ship in a meaningful way. |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
195
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 13:32:00 -
[58] - Quote
Enduros wrote:Pve isn't just your Lvl4s.
Accepted.
Plus +ºa change, plus c'est la m+¬me chose |
Allyxy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 21:34:00 -
[59] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote:[quote=Marcus Walkuris]@Darius that is exactly my sentiment. I... I'm looking at alternatives. CCP won't resort to the "easy" solution of giving the Rattlesnake the same set of drone bonus that the Dominix got, so it's useless to keep mentioning that.
I suggested the drone control range, because it's generally considered "not dangerous". Nobody would say it makes the Rattlesnake overpowered.
And also because standard Cruises on a Rattlesnake hit past 200Km without modules, implants or rigs for damage projection (double of its locking range, which is a waste), but the drones are restricted to 100ish Km, even the longest reaching ones (Wardens). This looks like a sort of inconsistency.
If you have any other proposals to bring the Rattlesnake in line with the rest of the pirate battleships (other than asking for the Dominix tracking bonus), I'm all for them too.
Drastically reduce RS signature radius, let's say 1/3rd of the current one, so it will be the real tank we need.
Ay |
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
20
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 20:16:00 -
[60] - Quote
Drone control range is the best idea I have heard for the RS. Unique bonus, great slot layout, and won't really ruin any existing fits. |
|
Mathias Orsen
Sacred Templars Fatal Ascension
7
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 23:45:00 -
[61] - Quote
The Rattlesnake is trumped by the Navy Scorpion. Scorp gets more DPS and more tank. Both are missile boats for the most part. The only advantage the Rattlesnake has is it's ability to rack up on Nosf and Nuets and with the current change to Nosf, that advantage is nullified.
The skinny is simply that if you do like the Snake, the Scorp offers more. The rattlesnake is quite possibly one Ship that should really be looked at and rebalanced. |
Frank Pannon
Jade Pork Assasins
68
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 07:23:00 -
[62] - Quote
Steve Spooner wrote:So after playing around against all other battleships on test server the rattlensnake has lost every fight. Wasn't really close. Vindi chewed everything, Bhaalgorn was a little jackass, Nightmare did the same, couldn't hit the machariel with jack, and against another rattler it was a brickfest. I want the rattlesnake to be useful and fun for pvp but that stupid worthless velocity bonus can be so much better.
Got no first-hand experience with Rattlesnake PVP, but based on killmails it seems quite a lot of people use it in smaller gangs. It is probably just not a solo ship.
Check zkillboard.com, and put the ship into the search bar.
|
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
25
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 18:51:00 -
[63] - Quote
Mathias Orsen wrote:The Rattlesnake is trumped by the Navy Scorpion. Scorp gets more DPS and more tank. Both are missile boats for the most part.
Um... you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
830
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:28:00 -
[64] - Quote
Mathias Orsen wrote:The Rattlesnake is trumped by the Navy Scorpion. Scorp gets more DPS and more tank. Both are missile boats for the most part. The only advantage the Rattlesnake has is it's ability to rack up on Nosf and Nuets and with the current change to Nosf, that advantage is nullified.
The skinny is simply that if you do like the Snake, the Scorp offers more. The rattlesnake is quite possibly one Ship that should really be looked at and rebalanced.
Show me your 1300 DPS Navy Scorp please. Thanks. Eve is Real |
Mathias Orsen
Sacred Templars Fatal Ascension
7
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 23:18:00 -
[65] - Quote
Lucine Delacourt wrote: Um... you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
Very good argument. Maybe I should just sell all my rattlesnakes and Scorpions. I could use that isk and by a nyx. The machariel is the only real BS anyway.
|
Lady Immortal
We Are The Fallen
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 03:06:00 -
[66] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:It still has one thing going for it that I've not found on another boat.
There is NO better boat when you're BLIND drunk. None. Absolutely no substitute.
Anyone claiming another boat is as good needs to learn to drink properly. I'd disagree... before I stopped drinking I'd take a tanky Tengu into L4's, pick a battleship, hit the 10MN AB, orbit it, and hit F1 on every other ship. Retarget occassionally, and hit F1 again when targets loaded.
Exactly, that's WAY too much work.. Rattlesnakes you can warp to the mission, throw your drones into space accidentally and pass the **** out. When you come to you can hand it in. |
Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
516
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 17:02:00 -
[67] - Quote
We need faction drone damage mods. Officer drone mods are too rare to be feasible for most bling purposes.
You can bling it for more tank - CN/DG/deadspace invulns, boosters, and boost amps For more range - Fed Navy - err I mean Black Eagle (might as well be fed navy) - drone link augmentors For more applied drone DPS - Fed navy omni tracking links. For lack of skills - Faction sentries but more DPS? from the drones? nope
FYI, its not a 100 km limit, with 2xT2 DLAs and max skills, its a 108km range, 112km if blinged with Black Eagle DLAs.
Torps can push reasonable DPS, but even with the range bonus, they are too short ranged, 4x unbonuses cruise launchers aren't worth using a low for a BCU - in my opinion
The drone mechanic changes mean my sentries get a lot of aggro - no more AFKing it (or in my case, launch drones, browse the web, as I do with mining) - I find the cruise launchers give so little DPS, that I'd rather jsut be able to keep my sentries on the field. Which means remote shield transfers in place of launchers.... which means I need cap... which means good bye to SPRIIs, hello to PDU IIs
While it can still get a respectable passive tank with PDUIIs (or CN PDUs), its no longer the AFK boat it used to be. I've been unable to find a setup where I make effective use of its launchers.
If I am to use its launchers, then some combination of the following must happen: 1) More high slots, so I can still fit the shield transfers and DLAs while fitting the launchers 2) More launchers, if I have more launchers to upgrade with a BCU, then the benefit of adding a BCU may become worthwhile 3) a better bonus to the launchers, as in number 2 4) more low slots to allow fitting BCUs without sacrificing what they are already used for (would simply add more PDUs or DDas, unless one of 1-3 was also implemented) |
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
25
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 03:08:00 -
[68] - Quote
Mathias Orsen wrote:Lucine Delacourt wrote: Um... you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
Very good argument. Maybe I should just sell all my rattlesnakes and Scorpions. I could use that isk and by a nyx. The machariel is the only real BS anyway.
If you honestly think the RS is a "Missile Boat for the most part anyway", then yes you should sell all of the ones you own. |
Mathias Orsen
Sacred Templars Fatal Ascension
7
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 03:26:00 -
[69] - Quote
Lucine Delacourt wrote:Mathias Orsen wrote:Lucine Delacourt wrote: Um... you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
Very good argument. Maybe I should just sell all my rattlesnakes and Scorpions. I could use that isk and by a nyx. The machariel is the only real BS anyway. If you honestly think the RS is a "Missile Boat for the most part anyway", then yes you should sell all of the ones you own.
I had not realized your lack of ability to read and comprehend, my apologies. In reference to my former post, the only thing that gives the Rattlesnake any advantage over the Scorp being the ability to "rack up on neuts and nosf". For your higher education, Energy neutralizers and Nosferatus are an offensive High slot module. Fitting a rack of these means that the rattlesnake can not fit Missile launchers as they both use the same slots.
Without those missile launchers, on the other hand, The Rattlesnake simply does not compare to either tank or DPS of the navy scorp. Considering that you have never owned either of these ships or even ships similar to these ships it is clearly understandable that "you obviously have no idea what you are talking about". |
Markus Navarro
Osmon Integrated Robotics
74
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 03:56:00 -
[70] - Quote
I'm glad they are so cheap, already lost 3 to absentmindedness.
Really need not to forget to start the Invul
Also, they are very good if you wanna do Epic Arc without fuss. Huge adaptable tank (and passive) and damage. Works with every one. I sell drones and drones accessories. |
|
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
25
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 21:19:00 -
[71] - Quote
Mathias Orsen wrote:Lucine Delacourt wrote:Mathias Orsen wrote:Lucine Delacourt wrote: Um... you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
Very good argument. Maybe I should just sell all my rattlesnakes and Scorpions. I could use that isk and by a nyx. The machariel is the only real BS anyway. If you honestly think the RS is a "Missile Boat for the most part anyway", then yes you should sell all of the ones you own. I had not realized your lack of ability to read and comprehend, my apologies. In reference to my former post, the only thing that gives the Rattlesnake any advantage over the Scorp being the ability to "rack up on neuts and nosf". For your higher education, Energy neutralizers and Nosferatus are an offensive High slot module. Fitting a rack of these means that the rattlesnake can not fit Missile launchers as they both use the same slots. Without those missile launchers, on the other hand, The Rattlesnake simply does not compare to either tank or DPS of the navy scorp. Considering that you have never owned either of these ships or even ships similar to these ships it is clearly understandable that "you obviously have no idea what you are talking about".
The RS has 3 utility highs for fitting Neuts(No one fits Nos) while still having all 4 missile launchers. It is a Drone boat, not a missile boat(You are mistaken). Finally, no one has ever complained about the RS not having enough tank.
Clearly you are trolling me or don't understand anything about this game. Either way, I am done arguing with you. |
Steve Spooner
Mordu's Military Industrial Command Circle-Of-Two
118
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 00:29:00 -
[72] - Quote
Unbonused missiles are stupid and you're better off fitting 7 neuts. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
360
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 07:37:00 -
[73] - Quote
An extra 470 DPS is hardly negligible. With my implants granted but....why would I /not/ use that power? |
Novah Soul
40
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 10:42:00 -
[74] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:An extra 470 DPS is hardly negligible. With my implants granted but....why would I /not/ use that power? With some individuals, laziness is a wonderful motivator. |
Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors
283
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 10:46:00 -
[75] - Quote
Lucine Delacourt wrote:The RS has 3 utility highs for fitting Neuts(No one fits Nos) while still having all 4 missile launchers..
...wait, what? Last I checked, I could have sworn the Rattlesnake had only six total highs. 6/7/6 slot pattern, right? "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
483
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Posted - 2013.09.07 16:26:00 -
[76] - Quote
Novah Soul wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:An extra 470 DPS is hardly negligible. With my implants granted but....why would I /not/ use that power? With some individuals, laziness is a wonderful motivator.
So FoFs lol
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Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
15
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Posted - 2013.09.07 18:31:00 -
[77] - Quote
Marc Callan wrote:Lucine Delacourt wrote:The RS has 3 utility highs for fitting Neuts(No one fits Nos) while still having all 4 missile launchers.. ...wait, what? Last I checked, I could have sworn the Rattlesnake had only six total highs. 6/7/6 slot pattern, right?
Hmm seems the 7 neut fit is no longer viable... :(
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Rattlesnake
^^ In any case the rattler could use a buff, I'm honestly surprised people mention a drone control range buff. As is 2 DLA make you capable of firing right around your furthest range with wardens (the snipeyest sentries). The problem is that this is further then your target range, meaning you will lock your targets after they come in range for your sentries.
So rattlers problems are. -Non sensical target range/drone range correlation. -****** stats, yes it tanks like a brick but why does it have such terrible stats in any other department. Would it hurt if it had speed but not agility or agility but not speed or a little of both without being a Machariel or what if it it did and just got a little more signature I mean its a "Sentry boat" for crying out loud it sits STILL. God forbid people could use heavy drones on it if it wasn't flying like a catapulted anvil.(which incidentally doesn't increase heavy drone damage at all just their actual usefulness. -The missile bonus it needs to go just to remove the collective stick out of our ass, 50% missile velocity has spat us in the face for too long it needs changed or at least turned into something else offensive like a bonus to hybrid weapons it can't fit. -drones could do with a damage buff akin to the domi, why?? Because the damage increase will be due to better application it wouldn't even raise maximum potential dps. It will also give more versatility by freeing a mid slot or allowing a sniping role like the domi. -Missiles, if you are going to have any kind of missile use, at least increase the number of launcher or give it a real buff since 4 launchers are barely worth the modules to back them up. Unbonused as they are they only make sense as turrets hybrids to fit the lore, at least then there is some vague hope of having damage application through range instead of going balls deep into modding/rigging for 4 launchers. -Lastly the amount of misinformation in this thread clearly implies people don't fly the rattler which screams buff by its self. I think the rattler could do with 7 high slots as well, another utility high would really help out drones.
All these suggestions combined and implemented you would have a: Faster more nimble rattlesnake with a low amount of hybrid gun slots (meaning it won't be abusing the **** out of its kiting potential,but making moving in with heavy drones easier or mwd/afterburners more then 2x0=0. Better drone damage application without raising its maximum dps potential, leaving a improved "Dominix" with more flavor and a lot higher SP requirement. It's really not about this being implemented EXACTLY but it paint a picture which direction or what the rattler could be heading to. It is a good boat but super narrow in it's focus (mostly lvl4's some other niche certainly not pvp which is okay but it doesn't deliver enough where it shines even). Being slower then every standard BS on the planet as a pirate ship AND a drone boat to boot REALLY detracts from "fun". |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
360
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Posted - 2013.09.07 19:07:00 -
[78] - Quote
The true flaw of the 'snake is it is too forgiving to fit badly and not blow up.
Seriously, the thing is a beast if you just get some vision and dont shitfit it.
I'll hold my hand up here and say mines is not fit for maximum potential, but it's deliberately fit for a different purpose. If I was to fit it for max potential, it would do VeryBadThingsGäó to things.
Half the suggestions here would turn it from a highly capable boat to a floating wtfbbqpwnmachine of doom.
Too often people benchmark "performance" as 'is it as good as a mach vs angels?'. |
Nash MacAllister
Anomalous Existence
69
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Posted - 2013.09.07 19:10:00 -
[79] - Quote
Having flown these in a variety of roles for essentially the past 3 years here are a couple comments...
1) RS is not a missile boat, so don't waste the slots trying to make it one. If you want a Caldari missile boat, the Scorp Navy is hands-down your ship
2) The RS missile bonus is essentially useless, except if you fit an armor RS for bashing POS, then you can fit one to hit a large POS with T2 torps + your Gardes giving it a very nice niche role. +1250 dps on the tower and ECM resistant. I used the mids for projected ECCM for the logi and local . I think I have used that fit 3 times in 2 years so I am in no way saying it is worth doing.
3) If the RS could get similar bonus' to the Domi, it really wouldn't help it, at least for PVE. It has plenty of tank so it isn't like you need the extra mids that you are putting omni's in.
4) If the RS could get additional launcher slots (+2), or an applied damage related missile bonus, then it could still be a drone boat and not fill the same exact role as a Domi at 4x the price and a load more skills required
5) CCP, don't f*** up the RS because even with it's missile "issues", it is still the absolute best PVE ship for one extremely specific area of wh space. Lol
I fly it because well it looks cool and I like being different. I don't care in the least for arguing about "better" ships for whatever role. But something needs to get done to give it a *little* help and a more defined role, not a lot. Call it a tweak if you will. The enemy of my enemy is... -ájust another guy that needs killin' |
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
15
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Posted - 2013.09.07 20:57:00 -
[80] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:The true flaw of the 'snake is it is too forgiving to fit badly and not blow up.
Seriously, the thing is a beast if you just get some vision and dont shitfit it.
I'll hold my hand up here and say mines is not fit for maximum potential, but it's deliberately fit for a different purpose. If I was to fit it for max potential, it would do VeryBadThingsGäó to things.
Half the suggestions here would turn it from a highly capable boat to a floating wtfbbqpwnmachine of doom.
Too often people benchmark "performance" as 'is it as good as a mach vs angels?'.
Under what scenario would you do these things? The horribly overlooked fact about the Rattlesnake is that at the end of the day when you add everything up it is a PvE specialist that despite a considerable tank and very good dps is a stationary ship. I therefor can't speed tank, it can't range kite it either. All it can do to be optimal is shoot things from considerable range, and wipe out peak damage before things start hugging it from a stationary position. The problem with this is, you need to fly with a mjd and that in PvE has **** poor synergy with looting or burning for gates which will take up more time then killing mobs. You jump from one gate to the next you will jump twice in 1 pocket. Leaving you unable to jump in the next pocket for about another 3 minutes, negating the entire point of fitting the mjd in the first place unless you dedicated a full 9 minutes to that one pocket. Simply said a MJD is a tool for non mission PvE in a rattlesnake, and in PvE it is more often a way for low SP players to access PvE content without complete supporting skills. I fly that bad boy plenty, it takes an absolute beating against a heavy gurristas missions, especially because it is stationary which is the only mission giving most godlike ships hassle. Ironically where it should be best it struggles the most due to its stationary nature and its dreadful speed/agility making it impossible to get a decent orbit AND pick up sentries when they get pummeled. Slow and a huge sig.
Sure a lot of content will allow you to simply destroy anything flying at you before it even gets to you, but what do you need a rattler for in these situations?? Almost anything will shine in a situation a rattler shines, maybe not with the same damage sporting at about 1100-1000dps but it surely isn't the only one that can do this. And the boats that do do this have a VASTLY larger range of uses. So it is perfect for wormholes etc. or something wonderful that is great, you know what that is a VERY narrow function for a pirate BS. With that information a "Dominix" like buff still won't increase maximum dps merely application. |
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