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Mathias Orsen
Sacred Templars
Fatal Ascension
7
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Posted - 2013.09.03 23:45:00 -
[61] - Quote
The Rattlesnake is trumped by the Navy Scorpion. Scorp gets more DPS and more tank. Both are missile boats for the most part. The only advantage the Rattlesnake has is it's ability to rack up on Nosf and Nuets and with the current change to Nosf, that advantage is nullified.
The skinny is simply that if you do like the Snake, the Scorp offers more. The rattlesnake is quite possibly one Ship that should really be looked at and rebalanced. |
Frank Pannon
Jade Pork Assasins
68
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Posted - 2013.09.04 07:23:00 -
[62] - Quote
Steve Spooner wrote:So after playing around against all other battleships on test server the rattlensnake has lost every fight. Wasn't really close. Vindi chewed everything, Bhaalgorn was a little jackass, Nightmare did the same, couldn't hit the machariel with jack, and against another rattler it was a brickfest. I want the rattlesnake to be useful and fun for pvp but that stupid worthless velocity bonus can be so much better.
Got no first-hand experience with Rattlesnake PVP, but based on killmails it seems quite a lot of people use it in smaller gangs. It is probably just not a solo ship.
Check zkillboard.com, and put the ship into the search bar.
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Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
25
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Posted - 2013.09.04 18:51:00 -
[63] - Quote
Mathias Orsen wrote:The Rattlesnake is trumped by the Navy Scorpion. Scorp gets more DPS and more tank. Both are missile boats for the most part.
Um... you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
830
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:28:00 -
[64] - Quote
Mathias Orsen wrote:The Rattlesnake is trumped by the Navy Scorpion. Scorp gets more DPS and more tank. Both are missile boats for the most part. The only advantage the Rattlesnake has is it's ability to rack up on Nosf and Nuets and with the current change to Nosf, that advantage is nullified.
The skinny is simply that if you do like the Snake, the Scorp offers more. The rattlesnake is quite possibly one Ship that should really be looked at and rebalanced.
Show me your 1300 DPS Navy Scorp please. Thanks.
Eve is Real |
Mathias Orsen
Sacred Templars
Fatal Ascension
7
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 23:18:00 -
[65] - Quote
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Um... you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
Very good argument. Maybe I should just sell all my rattlesnakes and Scorpions. I could use that isk and by a nyx. The machariel is the only real BS anyway.
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Lady Immortal
We Are The Fallen
1
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Posted - 2013.09.05 03:06:00 -
[66] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:It still has one thing going for it that I've not found on another boat.
There is NO better boat when you're BLIND drunk. None. Absolutely no substitute.
Anyone claiming another boat is as good needs to learn to drink properly. I'd disagree... before I stopped drinking I'd take a tanky Tengu into L4's, pick a battleship, hit the 10MN AB, orbit it, and hit F1 on every other ship. Retarget occassionally, and hit F1 again when targets loaded.
Exactly, that's WAY too much work.. Rattlesnakes you can warp to the mission, throw your drones into space accidentally and pass the **** out. When you come to you can hand it in. |
Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
516
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 17:02:00 -
[67] - Quote
We need faction drone damage mods.
Officer drone mods are too rare to be feasible for most bling purposes.
You can bling it for more tank - CN/DG/deadspace invulns, boosters, and boost amps
For more range - Fed Navy - err I mean Black Eagle (might as well be fed navy) - drone link augmentors
For more applied drone DPS - Fed navy omni tracking links.
For lack of skills - Faction sentries
but more DPS? from the drones? nope
FYI, its not a 100 km limit, with 2xT2 DLAs and max skills, its a 108km range, 112km if blinged with Black Eagle DLAs.
Torps can push reasonable DPS, but even with the range bonus, they are too short ranged,
4x unbonuses cruise launchers aren't worth using a low for a BCU - in my opinion
The drone mechanic changes mean my sentries get a lot of aggro - no more AFKing it (or in my case, launch drones, browse the web, as I do with mining) - I find the cruise launchers give so little DPS, that I'd rather jsut be able to keep my sentries on the field.
Which means remote shield transfers in place of launchers.... which means I need cap... which means good bye to SPRIIs, hello to PDU IIs
While it can still get a respectable passive tank with PDUIIs (or CN PDUs), its no longer the AFK boat it used to be.
I've been unable to find a setup where I make effective use of its launchers.
If I am to use its launchers, then some combination of the following must happen:
1) More high slots, so I can still fit the shield transfers and DLAs while fitting the launchers
2) More launchers, if I have more launchers to upgrade with a BCU, then the benefit of adding a BCU may become worthwhile
3) a better bonus to the launchers, as in number 2
4) more low slots to allow fitting BCUs without sacrificing what they are already used for (would simply add more PDUs or DDas, unless one of 1-3 was also implemented) |
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
25
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 03:08:00 -
[68] - Quote
Mathias Orsen wrote:Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Um... you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
Very good argument. Maybe I should just sell all my rattlesnakes and Scorpions. I could use that isk and by a nyx. The machariel is the only real BS anyway.
If you honestly think the RS is a "Missile Boat for the most part anyway", then yes you should sell all of the ones you own. |
Mathias Orsen
Sacred Templars
Fatal Ascension
7
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Posted - 2013.09.06 03:26:00 -
[69] - Quote
Lucine Delacourt wrote:Mathias Orsen wrote:Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Um... you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
Very good argument. Maybe I should just sell all my rattlesnakes and Scorpions. I could use that isk and by a nyx. The machariel is the only real BS anyway. If you honestly think the RS is a "Missile Boat for the most part anyway", then yes you should sell all of the ones you own.
I had not realized your lack of ability to read and comprehend, my apologies. In reference to my former post, the only thing that gives the Rattlesnake any advantage over the Scorp being the ability to "rack up on neuts and nosf". For your higher education, Energy neutralizers and Nosferatus are an offensive High slot module. Fitting a rack of these means that the rattlesnake can not fit Missile launchers as they both use the same slots.
Without those missile launchers, on the other hand, The Rattlesnake simply does not compare to either tank or DPS of the navy scorp. Considering that you have never owned either of these ships or even ships similar to these ships it is clearly understandable that "you obviously have no idea what you are talking about". |
Markus Navarro
Osmon Integrated Robotics
74
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 03:56:00 -
[70] - Quote
I'm glad they are so cheap, already lost 3 to absentmindedness.
Really need not to forget to start the Invul
Also, they are very good if you wanna do Epic Arc without fuss. Huge adaptable tank (and passive) and damage. Works with every one.
I sell drones and drones accessories. |
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Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
25
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Posted - 2013.09.06 21:19:00 -
[71] - Quote
Mathias Orsen wrote:Lucine Delacourt wrote:Mathias Orsen wrote:Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Um... you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
Very good argument. Maybe I should just sell all my rattlesnakes and Scorpions. I could use that isk and by a nyx. The machariel is the only real BS anyway. If you honestly think the RS is a "Missile Boat for the most part anyway", then yes you should sell all of the ones you own. I had not realized your lack of ability to read and comprehend, my apologies. In reference to my former post, the only thing that gives the Rattlesnake any advantage over the Scorp being the ability to "rack up on neuts and nosf". For your higher education, Energy neutralizers and Nosferatus are an offensive High slot module. Fitting a rack of these means that the rattlesnake can not fit Missile launchers as they both use the same slots. Without those missile launchers, on the other hand, The Rattlesnake simply does not compare to either tank or DPS of the navy scorp. Considering that you have never owned either of these ships or even ships similar to these ships it is clearly understandable that "you obviously have no idea what you are talking about".
The RS has 3 utility highs for fitting Neuts(No one fits Nos) while still having all 4 missile launchers. It is a Drone boat, not a missile boat(You are mistaken). Finally, no one has ever complained about the RS not having enough tank.
Clearly you are trolling me or don't understand anything about this game. Either way, I am done arguing with you. |
Steve Spooner
Mordu's Military Industrial Command
Circle-Of-Two
118
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 00:29:00 -
[72] - Quote
Unbonused missiles are stupid and you're better off fitting 7 neuts. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
360
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 07:37:00 -
[73] - Quote
An extra 470 DPS is hardly negligible. With my implants granted but....why would I /not/ use that power? |
Novah Soul
40
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 10:42:00 -
[74] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:An extra 470 DPS is hardly negligible. With my implants granted but....why would I /not/ use that power?
With some individuals, laziness is a wonderful motivator. |
Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel
Templis Dragonaors
283
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 10:46:00 -
[75] - Quote
Lucine Delacourt wrote:The RS has 3 utility highs for fitting Neuts(No one fits Nos) while still having all 4 missile launchers..
...wait, what? Last I checked, I could have sworn the Rattlesnake had only six total highs. 6/7/6 slot pattern, right?
"Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..."
- Niccolo Machiavelli-á |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise
Fatal Ascension
483
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 16:26:00 -
[76] - Quote
Novah Soul wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:An extra 470 DPS is hardly negligible. With my implants granted but....why would I /not/ use that power? With some individuals, laziness is a wonderful motivator.
So FoFs lol
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Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
15
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Posted - 2013.09.07 18:31:00 -
[77] - Quote
Marc Callan wrote:Lucine Delacourt wrote:The RS has 3 utility highs for fitting Neuts(No one fits Nos) while still having all 4 missile launchers.. ...wait, what? Last I checked, I could have sworn the Rattlesnake had only six total highs. 6/7/6 slot pattern, right?
Hmm seems the 7 neut fit is no longer viable... :(
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Rattlesnake
^^ In any case the rattler could use a buff, I'm honestly surprised people mention a drone control range buff.
As is 2 DLA make you capable of firing right around your furthest range with wardens (the snipeyest sentries).
The problem is that this is further then your target range, meaning you will lock your targets after they come in range for your sentries.
So rattlers problems are.
-Non sensical target range/drone range correlation.
-****** stats, yes it tanks like a brick but why does it have such terrible stats in any other department.
Would it hurt if it had speed but not agility or agility but not speed or a little of both without being a Machariel or what if it it did and just got a little more signature I mean its a "Sentry boat" for crying out loud it sits STILL.
God forbid people could use heavy drones on it if it wasn't flying like a catapulted anvil.(which incidentally doesn't increase heavy drone damage at all just their actual usefulness.
-The missile bonus it needs to go just to remove the collective stick out of our ass, 50% missile velocity has spat us in the face for too long it needs changed or at least turned into something else offensive like a bonus to hybrid weapons it can't fit.
-drones could do with a damage buff akin to the domi, why?? Because the damage increase will be due to better application it wouldn't even raise maximum potential dps.
It will also give more versatility by freeing a mid slot or allowing a sniping role like the domi.
-Missiles, if you are going to have any kind of missile use, at least increase the number of launcher or give it a real buff since 4 launchers are barely worth the modules to back them up.
Unbonused as they are they only make sense as turrets hybrids to fit the lore, at least then there is some vague hope of having damage application through range instead of going balls deep into modding/rigging for 4 launchers.
-Lastly the amount of misinformation in this thread clearly implies people don't fly the rattler which screams buff by its self.
I think the rattler could do with 7 high slots as well, another utility high would really help out drones.
All these suggestions combined and implemented you would have a: Faster more nimble rattlesnake with a low amount of hybrid gun slots (meaning it won't be abusing the **** out of its kiting potential,but making moving in with heavy drones easier or mwd/afterburners more then 2x0=0.
Better drone damage application without raising its maximum dps potential, leaving a improved "Dominix" with more flavor and a lot higher SP requirement.
It's really not about this being implemented EXACTLY but it paint a picture which direction or what the rattler could be heading to.
It is a good boat but super narrow in it's focus (mostly lvl4's some other niche certainly not pvp which is okay but it doesn't deliver enough where it shines even).
Being slower then every standard BS on the planet as a pirate ship AND a drone boat to boot REALLY detracts from "fun". |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
360
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 19:07:00 -
[78] - Quote
The true flaw of the 'snake is it is too forgiving to fit badly and not blow up.
Seriously, the thing is a beast if you just get some vision and dont shitfit it.
I'll hold my hand up here and say mines is not fit for maximum potential, but it's deliberately fit for a different purpose. If I was to fit it for max potential, it would do VeryBadThingsGäó to things.
Half the suggestions here would turn it from a highly capable boat to a floating wtfbbqpwnmachine of doom.
Too often people benchmark "performance" as 'is it as good as a mach vs angels?'. |
Nash MacAllister
Anomalous Existence
69
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 19:10:00 -
[79] - Quote
Having flown these in a variety of roles for essentially the past 3 years here are a couple comments...
1) RS is not a missile boat, so don't waste the slots trying to make it one. If you want a Caldari missile boat, the Scorp Navy is hands-down your ship
2) The RS missile bonus is essentially useless, except if you fit an armor RS for bashing POS, then you can fit one to hit a large POS with T2 torps + your Gardes giving it a very nice niche role. +1250 dps on the tower and ECM resistant. I used the mids for projected ECCM for the logi and local . I think I have used that fit 3 times in 2 years so I am in no way saying it is worth doing.
3) If the RS could get similar bonus' to the Domi, it really wouldn't help it, at least for PVE. It has plenty of tank so it isn't like you need the extra mids that you are putting omni's in.
4) If the RS could get additional launcher slots (+2), or an applied damage related missile bonus, then it could still be a drone boat and not fill the same exact role as a Domi at 4x the price and a load more skills required
5) CCP, don't f*** up the RS because even with it's missile "issues", it is still the absolute best PVE ship for one extremely specific area of wh space. Lol
I fly it because well it looks cool and I like being different. I don't care in the least for arguing about "better" ships for whatever role. But something needs to get done to give it a *little* help and a more defined role, not a lot. Call it a tweak if you will.
The enemy of my enemy is... -ájust another guy that needs killin' |
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
15
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Posted - 2013.09.07 20:57:00 -
[80] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:The true flaw of the 'snake is it is too forgiving to fit badly and not blow up.
Seriously, the thing is a beast if you just get some vision and dont shitfit it.
I'll hold my hand up here and say mines is not fit for maximum potential, but it's deliberately fit for a different purpose. If I was to fit it for max potential, it would do VeryBadThingsGäó to things.
Half the suggestions here would turn it from a highly capable boat to a floating wtfbbqpwnmachine of doom.
Too often people benchmark "performance" as 'is it as good as a mach vs angels?'.
Under what scenario would you do these things?
The horribly overlooked fact about the Rattlesnake is that at the end of the day when you add everything up it is a PvE specialist that despite a considerable tank and very good dps is a stationary ship.
I therefor can't speed tank, it can't range kite it either.
All it can do to be optimal is shoot things from considerable range, and wipe out peak damage before things start hugging it from a stationary position.
The problem with this is, you need to fly with a mjd and that in PvE has **** poor synergy with looting or burning for gates which will take up more time then killing mobs.
You jump from one gate to the next you will jump twice in 1 pocket.
Leaving you unable to jump in the next pocket for about another 3 minutes, negating the entire point of fitting the mjd in the first place unless you dedicated a full 9 minutes to that one pocket.
Simply said a MJD is a tool for non mission PvE in a rattlesnake, and in PvE it is more often a way for low SP players to access PvE content without complete supporting skills.
I fly that bad boy plenty, it takes an absolute beating against a heavy gurristas missions, especially because it is stationary which is the only mission giving most godlike ships hassle.
Ironically where it should be best it struggles the most due to its stationary nature and its dreadful speed/agility making it impossible to get a decent orbit AND pick up sentries when they get pummeled.
Slow and a huge sig.
Sure a lot of content will allow you to simply destroy anything flying at you before it even gets to you, but what do you need a rattler for in these situations??
Almost anything will shine in a situation a rattler shines, maybe not with the same damage sporting at about 1100-1000dps but it surely isn't the only one that can do this.
And the boats that do do this have a VASTLY larger range of uses.
So it is perfect for wormholes etc. or something wonderful that is great, you know what that is a VERY narrow function for a pirate BS.
With that information a "Dominix" like buff still won't increase maximum dps merely application. |
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