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Aelius
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Posted - 2006.01.02 07:37:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Aelius on 02/01/2006 07:44:15
I start to find this very, very strange.
Although it's NOT the BPO i'm waiting for (i'm waiting yet for a ship BPO), i was awarded with a Spike S BPO (tech2 ammo) yesterday.
That makes 8 BPO's so far, 7 with Aelius, 1 with a R&D maxed alt of mine.
I start to wonder myself (to my own disavantage) if this lottery isn't bugged out.
It's true that i started R&D ALONG time ago sinking 8.5M SP's in science and having 6 high end agents (4 in CSE, 1 in Hydromagnetics and 1 in Electromagnetics), BUT 7 BPO's on this char isn't too much luck can handle?!
Having others complaining that they NEVER had a BPO (even a crapy one like Spike S BPO) and they are also doing this for along time?!
Perhaps i chose the right non Starship fields with less competitors on them, but WE PLAYERS can't know that for sure CAN WE????
Once upon the time we had a tool built on our agents that showed the total number of RP's ingame in that particular field, now we DON'T.
All this secrecy makes players wonder if situations like mine are cheer luck or engineered in some ebil "DEV friend like" way.
I like to be lucky for once in life, but i DON'T like to be favored by ebil code, and the explanation is simple.
If i'm being favored with crapy BPO's, who's being favored with the juicy ship/modules ones?! 
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Jaketh Ivanes
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Posted - 2006.01.02 07:43:00 -
[2]
Good question.. Wish it was me who were favored with the juicy ones, heck I'll take that spike anytime 
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Marcus Thrawn
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Posted - 2006.01.02 07:44:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Marcus Thrawn on 02/01/2006 07:44:00
Maybe you should donate it to someone poor like me
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2006.01.02 07:50:00 -
[4]
well my suggestion is to simply use thoes u dont need and start the tech 2 BPO copying seed them into the escrow system and give more ppl a chance.
Im a happy little camper now - CCP 4tw. |
JeanLuc Picarde
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Posted - 2006.01.02 08:10:00 -
[5]
it obviously IS bugged heh.
its akin to you winning the "normal" lotto 8 times instead of the "powerball" one.
Ive seen this before in other games that rely on random number generators for high end loot drops. same scenario a handfull of gamers, powergamer or otherwise getting items, and other people that no matter how much they grind for years got bupkiss...its why I loathe the use of these RNG, its proven to me at least that their not reliable.
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Amthrianius
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Posted - 2006.01.02 08:15:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Amthrianius on 02/01/2006 08:15:11
gotten 4 bpo's in 5 days from my 4 agents. Im out of rp though now :(
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Niaski Zalani
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Posted - 2006.01.02 08:41:00 -
[7]
It does seem a bit unballanced.. but then again, not everybody sinks 8.5m SP into R&D/Science.
I know one person who has gotten 8 t2 prints, another who has gotten 7 if 14 days since RMR, and another who has gotten at least 4.
include 'clue';
if ($youdontliket2prices == 1) {
$dontbuyt2 == 1
}; |
sonofollo
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Posted - 2006.01.02 08:51:00 -
[8]
CCP had anotehr case of shoddy programming under the hood - it shows to but meh sell em and disperse the BPOs or hog em up and take the market up price wise
Im a happy little camper now - CCP 4tw. |
Mina Roberts
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Posted - 2006.01.02 08:52:00 -
[9]
I have 5 agents, 3 doing electomagnetic (got 35k rp on each) also 2 agents doing electronic engineering (also 35k per agent) never had a bpo.
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Skelator
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Posted - 2006.01.02 08:53:00 -
[10]
Bravo Aelius,
I applaude your integrity and sense of Ethics
They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards |
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Kipkruide
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Posted - 2006.01.02 09:27:00 -
[11]
i think it's because your reseraching a field no one bothers with.
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Aelius
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Posted - 2006.01.02 09:44:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Aelius on 02/01/2006 09:45:27
 Originally by: Kipkruide
i think it's because your reseraching a field no one bothers with.
Not quite... Although i think Hydromagnectic Physics is a little low on total RP's( i've got 5 from that field), i got a BPO in rocket science (fairly crowded due to MWD and launchers) and 2 in Electromagnetic physics.
The 2 bpos i got recently were a cruise missile BPO and a S hybrid ammo. I know there are lots and lots of ammo BPOs outthere but why is there still people like this guy with 5 agents (3 in the same field as i with 35k RP's each) with no BPO? Bad luck?! Well i find it VERY BAD LUCK indeed
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Chode Rizoum
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Posted - 2006.01.02 09:50:00 -
[13]
i got the huginn ... on my alt lol.. dunno what to do with it.. never builded anything.. think i will put it into corp hangar. so people can build for them self
Teddycorp signature... By myal terego
www.exoticdancers.pvp.dk |
Weeman
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Posted - 2006.01.02 10:04:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Weeman on 02/01/2006 10:04:51
Originally by: Chode Rizoum
i got the huginn ... on my alt lol.. dunno what to do with it.. never builded anything.. think i will put it into corp hangar. so people can build for them self
Sell it to someone who will actually build the damn things for the rest of eve (NAGA, BIG, Me), you selfish little ****
Killboard links are not permitted on the forums. - Teblin |
Shittake
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Posted - 2006.01.02 10:09:00 -
[15]
Well I have a total of 11 R&D agents (L3 and L4) across 2 accounts and since this whole T2 BPO toeery thingy started have been offered 6 BPOs, declined 1. The thing is, I never get the highly wanted BPOs. I got the Oneriros, the Heavy Beam Laser 2, was offered the Plag2 crystal and said no (because it was oddly enough from a startship agent with way too much RP to waste on T2 low grade mining crystal).
I want Expanded Cargohold 2, or Mod DCM Strip 2, or Ice Harvestor 2. They will be the ones which make the uber billions.
Those who have not getten a BPO yet, don't worry, you will. THere's more comming out this week I believe. If not ythe T2 BPO auction should be a chance to spend your RP.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.01.02 10:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Chode Rizoum
i got the huginn ... on my alt lol.. dunno what to do with it.. never builded anything.. think i will put it into corp hangar. so people can build for them self
donate it to save the hippos.
contact HippoKing for more details - will collect 
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Grigori Sokolov
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Posted - 2006.01.02 10:15:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Grigori Sokolov on 02/01/2006 10:15:28
Originally by: Aelius
even a crapy one like Spike S BPO
Could I buy a BPC or two... ?  Contact me in-game.
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Nico Tine
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Posted - 2006.01.02 10:16:00 -
[18]
I have 3 accounts each with 5 R&D agents and each with over 7 million skill points invested in science and other associated skills for R&D work.
I also spent months doing missions on each account to raise the standing required to access the better R&D agents in each corp.
In the two years since R&D agents where released I have recieved 7 Offers, one of which I declined. Out the 6 BPOS i accepted only 1 is a proven seller, 1 I sold (way too cheap it would now appear) and the 3 others are used to produce stock every month or so. The new one I got recently is unproved but I hope will sell reasonably well.
Only 1 agent has given me 2 BPO's.
For those that argue the lottery is bugged I am not so sure. I don't research Starship Engineering but I choose the less glamerous fields with less RP's per agent but more BPO's available per agent.
I still have over 400,000 RP's between the agents but most only give between 35-50 RP's a day not like some of the agents that give 200 RP's a day. I figure that maybe 50% of people use starship engineering agents and those that do are after a limited but highly lucrative BPO. Basically the chances of those getting a BPO are much slimmer than if they had researched another field.
For example. An agent offering 4 BPO's with 15000 people after them as against an agent offering 10 BPO with only 3000 people after them. You do the maths. RP's are relative at field of research only.
My recent large ammo BPO was won with an agent giving me 55 RP's a day and I had 25,000 RP's. The same agent would give me 200 RP's a day for starship engineering. Had I choosen that I would have had over 100,000 RP's in Starship Engineering but everyone else would have had proportionaly more RP's as well. Many more people after fewer BPO's.
I have also put a lot of effort, skills, ISK into R&D and it has paid off. I do not feel guilty for winning.
I do however think that some of the ealrier BPO's such as intys could do with a reseed as the eve population has more than doubled in the last 2 years.
For those doing R&D, good luck.
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Paedri Yakati
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Posted - 2006.01.02 10:20:00 -
[19]
850k RP in Caldari Starship Engineering across 6 L3 agents.
Yes.. level 3.. been at it since the very first day the Research Project Management skill got released, which is I believe nearly 2 years ago now. Been running my agents every now and then but each time giving up again after a while because of the seemingly hopeless chances 
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Siren Shiva
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Posted - 2006.01.02 10:24:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Chode Rizoum
i got the huginn ... on my alt lol.. dunno what to do with it.. never builded anything.. think i will put it into corp hangar. so people can build for them self
Sell me some BPCs pwetty pweeze? Because I'm cute? 
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Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2006.01.02 10:30:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Aelius
Edited by: Aelius on 02/01/2006 07:44:15
I start to find this very, very strange.
Although it's NOT the BPO i'm waiting for (i'm waiting yet for a ship BPO), i was awarded with a Spike S BPO (tech2 ammo) yesterday.
That makes 8 BPO's so far, 7 with Aelius, 1 with a R&D maxed alt of mine.
I start to wonder myself (to my own disavantage) if this lottery isn't bugged out.
It's true that i started R&D ALONG time ago sinking 8.5M SP's in science and having 6 high end agents (4 in CSE, 1 in Hydromagnetics and 1 in Electromagnetics), BUT 7 BPO's on this char isn't too much luck can handle?!
Having others complaining that they NEVER had a BPO (even a crapy one like Spike S BPO) and they are also doing this for along time?!
Perhaps i chose the right non Starship fields with less competitors on them, but WE PLAYERS can't know that for sure CAN WE????
Once upon the time we had a tool built on our agents that showed the total number of RP's ingame in that particular field, now we DON'T.
All this secrecy makes players wonder if situations like mine are cheer luck or engineered in some ebil "DEV friend like" way.
I like to be lucky for once in life, but i DON'T like to be favored by ebil code, and the explanation is simple.
If i'm being favored with crapy BPO's, who's being favored with the juicy ship/modules ones?!
could be that you've got alot of RP in the less popular areas. i.e. not Starship engineering.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2006.01.02 10:31:00 -
[22]
well its meant to be random yet it isnt - shame on u CCP
Im a happy little camper now - CCP 4tw. |
Heraken
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Posted - 2006.01.02 11:03:00 -
[23]
I know of someone who just got their first bpo (a T2 ammo bpo from the rocket science pool) from a low quality lvl 3 agent with just over 600 RP (having been with that agent for less than a month).
Sure, the person had two other agents (one with 6 months worth of RP, one with less than 1 months worth), but doesn't this show that the lottery is not always skewed to those who already have?
That said, I can see the concerns about the system.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2006.01.02 11:12:00 -
[24]
Recall a fact of randomness is should expect someone to get lucky in some ridicolous way. You just cant predict when, where, and how that ridicolous way will occur. But beyond that if you step back and stop insisting that its broken you come to two possibilities:
a) There arnt as many serious research runners as it appears on the surface.
b) There might be some truth to the geography argument. So that if agents were chosen FIRST then character SECOND that would explain this.
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Larz63
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Posted - 2006.01.02 11:12:00 -
[25]
I have heard stories or people winning BPOs with as little as 3kRPs, but it seems like the winnings now are stuck on repeat. It almost as if you bought 8 different scratchers and won the top prize on them all. I am sure CCP could say it is just dumb luck, but I still think its a bit odd. Oh well, I guess some have he luck and some don't.
/me goes back to keying his research agents Raven.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Metternich Stele
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Posted - 2006.01.02 11:21:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Metternich Stele on 02/01/2006 11:23:56
Some of us choose not too get involved R&D, it's a personal thing I guess. However the thing I find most disturbing about the whole thing and it's implementation is for those that get 'lucky' it is license to print ISK on a massive and un-paralleled scale. There is no other element in this game that allows a player to amass such immense fortunes as people who play the R&D game. This whole thing needs re-addressing.
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JP Beauregard
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Posted - 2006.01.02 11:22:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Aelius
I start to find this very, very strange.
Although it's NOT the BPO i'm waiting for (i'm waiting yet for a ship BPO), i was awarded with a Spike S BPO (tech2 ammo) yesterday.
That makes 8 BPO's so far, 7 with Aelius, 1 with a R&D maxed alt of mine.
It's not strange at all. Wait until everyone ahead of you and their dead grandmother has rejected the crap bpos and you'll wind up with all of them.
JP Beauregard
====================================
Yet to be plagiarized: The New Pilkington Guides to EVE |
Xune
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Posted - 2006.01.02 11:23:00 -
[28]
7 Level 4 R/d¦s on 2 acounts since R/d started.. all 7 agents in different folderds, non in a Spaceship... all related sciens skills 5...
not a single bpo
Reading somthing like that make me wanne barf...
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Heraken
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Posted - 2006.01.02 11:28:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Metternich Stele
Edited by: Metternich Stele on 02/01/2006 11:23:56
However the thing I find most disturbing about the whole thing and it's implementation is for those that get 'lucky' it is license to print ISK on a massive and un-paralleled scale. There is no other element in this game that allows a player to amass such immense fortunes as people who play the R&D game. This whole thing needs re-addressing.
That may be true concerning the ship bpos, and some module bpos. However, some of the lesser T2 bpos don't seem to be instant 'I win'.
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Irrilian
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Posted - 2006.01.02 11:45:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Chode Rizoum
i got the huginn ... on my alt lol.. dunno what to do with it.. never builded anything.. think i will put it into corp hangar. so people can build for them self
First off, congratulations on getting the BPO. :)
Im afraid Im not clued up about how it exactly works, but should you not be sure what to do with the bpo yet, you might want to consider NAGA's Stepstone project: you lodge the bpo with them, they handle all the production, sales etc and every week send you ISK. A reliable nice income for you requiring no effort, cheap techII ships for all, everyone wins. :)
- - -
The Big Blue, ôExodus realised.ö |
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Irrilian
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Posted - 2006.01.02 11:57:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Irrilian on 02/01/2006 12:02:46
Originally by: sonofollo
well its meant to be random yet it isnt - shame on u CCP
Runs, streaks of good luck are an aspect of probability.
Flip a coin 100 times and it wont be all heads, tails, heads, tails etc. But rather runs of the same side often turning up. However from the big [view] these little deviations are insignificant. Such is a normal in a random system.
There comes a point when things start to look a bit fishy, that the probability of such a run occurring are increasingly unlikely, that is: something is up with the randomness of the system. However, humans tend to be a poor judge of such, our attention is skewed to pick up on such little quirks. The ultimate way to judge whether things are working out ok are in CCPs hands, the data from the lottery. It shouldnÆt be too hard to examine the stats and see if something isnÆt quite right?
edit syntax: very->view
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The Big Blue, ôExodus realised.ö |
Relena mearfire
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Posted - 2006.01.02 11:58:00 -
[32]
there was a thread not to long ago where a dev (oveur i think) said there would be alot more ammo bpos than before, the number was in the hundreads, i thought it just atypo but maybe it's true.
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Vex Seraphim
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Posted - 2006.01.02 12:14:00 -
[33]
I've never gotten a bpo,
and i am mighty ****ed :/
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.01.02 12:41:00 -
[34]
the sad thing is Aelius is not an exceptional case, it seems to be more the rule of thumb
take the BPO Aelius, it will just go to another guy with with 10 t2 BPO's otherwise
Originally by: Oveur
****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
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Gummi
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Posted - 2006.01.02 13:27:00 -
[35]
Congrats. I wish I was 1/8th as lucky as you :) lol
Anyway please let us know if you get a 9th, because if you do, I know EXACTLY what I am gona do with my research alt account. (5 R&D-lots of RP (only 2 doing starship), >2 years and NOTHING.)
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.01.02 13:32:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Aelius
Edited by: Aelius on 02/01/2006 07:44:15
I start to find this very, very strange.
Although it's NOT the BPO i'm waiting for (i'm waiting yet for a ship BPO), i was awarded with a Spike S BPO (tech2 ammo) yesterday.
That makes 8 BPO's so far, 7 with Aelius, 1 with a R&D maxed alt of mine.
I start to wonder myself (to my own disavantage) if this lottery isn't bugged out.
It's true that i started R&D ALONG time ago sinking 8.5M SP's in science and having 6 high end agents (4 in CSE, 1 in Hydromagnetics and 1 in Electromagnetics), BUT 7 BPO's on this char isn't too much luck can handle?!
Having others complaining that they NEVER had a BPO (even a crapy one like Spike S BPO) and they are also doing this for along time?!
Perhaps i chose the right non Starship fields with less competitors on them, but WE PLAYERS can't know that for sure CAN WE????
Once upon the time we had a tool built on our agents that showed the total number of RP's ingame in that particular field, now we DON'T.
All this secrecy makes players wonder if situations like mine are cheer luck or engineered in some ebil "DEV friend like" way.
I like to be lucky for once in life, but i DON'T like to be favored by ebil code, and the explanation is simple.
If i'm being favored with crapy BPO's, who's being favored with the juicy ship/modules ones?!
Its because you've chosen a number of underused fields.
-
Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Ebedar
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Posted - 2006.01.02 13:55:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Chode Rizoum
i got the huginn ... on my alt lol.. dunno what to do with it.. never builded anything.. think i will put it into corp hangar. so people can build for them self
With the web bonus on that, I'd think it's going to be a pretty popular ship.
Either sell the BPO for craploads or put it into NAGA's Stepstone scheme and get a regular income from it (unless you have a trustworthy friend who can build/sell them for you).
Nice print.
One Step Further |
Mina Roberts
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Posted - 2006.01.02 15:01:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Mina Roberts on 02/01/2006 15:02:07
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Aelius
Edited by: Aelius on 02/01/2006 07:44:15
I start to find this very, very strange.
Although it's NOT the BPO i'm waiting for (i'm waiting yet for a ship BPO), i was awarded with a Spike S BPO (tech2 ammo) yesterday.
That makes 8 BPO's so far, 7 with Aelius, 1 with a R&D maxed alt of mine.
I start to wonder myself (to my own disavantage) if this lottery isn't bugged out.
It's true that i started R&D ALONG time ago sinking 8.5M SP's in science and having 6 high end agents (4 in CSE, 1 in Hydromagnetics and 1 in Electromagnetics), BUT 7 BPO's on this char isn't too much luck can handle?!
Having others complaining that they NEVER had a BPO (even a crapy one like Spike S BPO) and they are also doing this for along time?!
Perhaps i chose the right non Starship fields with less competitors on them, but WE PLAYERS can't know that for sure CAN WE????
Once upon the time we had a tool built on our agents that showed the total number of RP's ingame in that particular field, now we DON'T.
All this secrecy makes players wonder if situations like mine are cheer luck or engineered in some ebil "DEV friend like" way.
I like to be lucky for once in life, but i DON'T like to be favored by ebil code, and the explanation is simple.
If i'm being favored with crapy BPO's, who's being favored with the juicy ship/modules ones?!
Its because you've chosen a number of underused fields.
Underused? I've been doing electomagnetic physics and electronic engineering since research began almost, ive got over 35k RP per agent and 5 agents combined. They are x1 multiplyer fields. Never had anything dispite doing these "underused" fields.
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Cardassius
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Posted - 2006.01.02 15:09:00 -
[39]
I cancelled my 2 year old contract with my caldari starship researcher, and i'm now doing electromagnetic physics, never received ANY offer..
ASCI Recruiting!
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Lord Frost
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Posted - 2006.01.02 15:13:00 -
[40]
The way I see it... for someone to win multiple t2 bpos from 1 character has to be the LUCKIEST person in Eve. I'm sure many researchers would say you have more chance with more rps, but logic would say that your chance is small compared to one of the 1000s of others rps.
Thats what I don't get... the chances for someone else to get 1 t2 bpo are BY FAR GREATER than your chance to get another.
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Xrak
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Posted - 2006.01.02 15:20:00 -
[41]
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
All T2 BPO's need to be taking out the game and replaced with large run BPC's.
The system would work exactly as it is now, except agents give you offers for BPC's not BPO's. A 100 run HAC BPC is ofc going to cost you more rp then a 5 run Raptor BPC. This means that more people would get a chance of geting a good T2 BPC and would spread the wealth. Also because the BPC's are being continously given out, they will more likly be more fairly given out. The chance of someone getting 8 t2 bpos, out of 2000 is much higher then them gettin 8 BPC's out of 200000.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.01.02 15:21:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Lord Frost
Thats what I don't get... the chances for someone else to get 1 t2 bpo are BY FAR GREATER than your chance to get another.
exactly and yet we see ppl who have had research agents in the starship engineering fields for 2years and never gets anything.
and some just keep getting BPO after BPO after BPO after BPO.
--------
Originally by: F'nog
This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Skyy
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Posted - 2006.01.02 15:38:00 -
[43]
I'll say it... CCP hates me, and I'm on their "haha pal" list.
I'll never get one.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.02 15:40:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Grigori Sokolov
Edited by: Grigori Sokolov on 02/01/2006 10:15:28
Originally by: Aelius
even a crapy one like Spike S BPO
Could I buy a BPC or two... ? Contact me in-game.
Same!
Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.02 15:41:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Xrak
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
All T2 BPO's need to be taking out the game and replaced with large run BPC's.
The system would work exactly as it is now, except agents give you offers for BPC's not BPO's. A 100 run HAC BPC is ofc going to cost you more rp then a 5 run Raptor BPC. This means that more people would get a chance of geting a good T2 BPC and would spread the wealth. Also because the BPC's are being continously given out, they will more likly be more fairly given out. The chance of someone getting 8 t2 bpos, out of 2000 is much higher then them gettin 8 BPC's out of 200000.
I'll say it before, i'll say it again:
You REALLY want 30 mil interceptors.
Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
shakaZ XV
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Posted - 2006.01.02 15:46:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Xrak
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
All T2 BPO's need to be taking out the game and replaced with large run BPC's.
The system would work exactly as it is now, except agents give you offers for BPC's not BPO's. A 100 run HAC BPC is ofc going to cost you more rp then a 5 run Raptor BPC. This means that more people would get a chance of geting a good T2 BPC and would spread the wealth. Also because the BPC's are being continously given out, they will more likly be more fairly given out. The chance of someone getting 8 t2 bpos, out of 2000 is much higher then them gettin 8 BPC's out of 200000.
Indeed, i don't understand why they didn't do it like this from the start.
(I think its quite funny that the best way of "striking it rich" in eve requires almost 0 playing effort. Just leave the RP's running and hope...  )
=========================
One small step for me, one giant leap for ALT-kind. |
xbreaka
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Posted - 2006.01.02 15:47:00 -
[47]
nice luck you have their
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Cardassius
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Posted - 2006.01.02 15:50:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Lord Frost
Thats what I don't get... the chances for someone else to get 1 t2 bpo are BY FAR GREATER than your chance to get another.
But ppl getting bpo after bpo with less than 10k RP's is disturbing.
If it is really random ppl with A LOT of RP's would have won more bpo's.
In real life lotteries ppl who buy more tickets have a higher chance of winning.
ASCI Recruiting!
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.01.02 15:57:00 -
[49]
or remove the lottery completely and do agent lp offers similar to every other agent. that way people can work towards a particular bpo and there will be no more "zomg he got 234949 bpos in a day".
I'm not sure what kind of market experiement CCP are trying to perform with the current T2 bpo system, but it sucks. I would rather the time spent into implementing a fair and transparent system than the new capital ships that can only be used by a handful of people.
Originally by: 0Virtu0
Chuck Norris doesnt need different sized arms to beat up little kids, why should the Raven need different weapons to beat up frigs!?
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KHEN
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Posted - 2006.01.02 16:01:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Aelius
Edited by: Aelius on 02/01/2006 07:44:15
I start to find this very, very strange.
Although it's NOT the BPO i'm waiting for (i'm waiting yet for a ship BPO), i was awarded with a Spike S BPO (tech2 ammo) yesterday.
That makes 8 BPO's so far, 7 with Aelius, 1 with a R&D maxed alt of mine.
I start to wonder myself (to my own disavantage) if this lottery isn't bugged out.
It's true that i started R&D ALONG time ago sinking 8.5M SP's in science and having 6 high end agents (4 in CSE, 1 in Hydromagnetics and 1 in Electromagnetics), BUT 7 BPO's on this char isn't too much luck can handle?!
Having others complaining that they NEVER had a BPO (even a crapy one like Spike S BPO) and they are also doing this for along time?!
Perhaps i chose the right non Starship fields with less competitors on them, but WE PLAYERS can't know that for sure CAN WE????
Once upon the time we had a tool built on our agents that showed the total number of RP's ingame in that particular field, now we DON'T.
All this secrecy makes players wonder if situations like mine are cheer luck or engineered in some ebil "DEV friend like" way.
I like to be lucky for once in life, but i DON'T like to be favored by ebil code, and the explanation is simple.
If i'm being favored with crapy BPO's, who's being favored with the juicy ship/modules ones?!
Don't waste your RP into crappy BPO, keep them instead and you will get better ones fast (E.g. at the next seeding)
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.01.02 16:10:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Cardassius
Originally by: Lord Frost
Thats what I don't get... the chances for someone else to get 1 t2 bpo are BY FAR GREATER than your chance to get another.
But ppl getting bpo after bpo with less than 10k RP's is disturbing.
If it is really random ppl with A LOT of RP's would have won more bpo's.
In real life lotteries ppl who buy more tickets have a higher chance of winning.
Oh plenty of people, in fact most people, get one while having a lot of RPs.
Its just that you never hear about those, because there's nothing special when that happens.
I wouldn't be surprised if exactly 4 times as many of the people with 40k win as the people with 10k 
-
Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Lord Frost
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Posted - 2006.01.02 16:20:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Cardassius
Originally by: Lord Frost
Thats what I don't get... the chances for someone else to get 1 t2 bpo are BY FAR GREATER than your chance to get another.
But ppl getting bpo after bpo with less than 10k RP's is disturbing.
If it is really random ppl with A LOT of RP's would have won more bpo's.
In real life lotteries ppl who buy more tickets have a higher chance of winning.
Oh plenty of people, in fact most people, get one while having a lot of RPs.
Its just that you never hear about those, because there's nothing special when that happens.
I wouldn't be surprised if exactly 4 times as many of the people with 40k win as the people with 10k
But what if there were 10 times as many people with 10k as there were with 40k? I'd be interested to see a layout of these numbers... how many people have how many rps chart.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.01.02 16:25:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Lord Frost
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Cardassius
Originally by: Lord Frost
Thats what I don't get... the chances for someone else to get 1 t2 bpo are BY FAR GREATER than your chance to get another.
But ppl getting bpo after bpo with less than 10k RP's is disturbing.
If it is really random ppl with A LOT of RP's would have won more bpo's.
In real life lotteries ppl who buy more tickets have a higher chance of winning.
Oh plenty of people, in fact most people, get one while having a lot of RPs.
Its just that you never hear about those, because there's nothing special when that happens.
I wouldn't be surprised if exactly 4 times as many of the people with 40k win as the people with 10k
But what if there were 10 times as many people with 10k as there were with 40k? I'd be interested to see a layout of these numbers... how many people have how many rps chart.
That would be very cool.
I really doubt that the lottery is broken in any way, shape, or form though. The fact that so many people have fewer RPs also means that, by definition, a lot of people will few RPs will win, more than you'd expect if the distribution was smooth.
-
Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2006.01.02 16:50:00 -
[54]
imo the whole thing was a copout, simple system, badly implemented. For one if you don't run agents your excluded, should at least have been a bit of diversity in ways to get at the t2 bpos.
Also agree they should all be bpc's, T2 BPO = insta uber wealth.
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread |
Trevedian
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Posted - 2006.01.02 17:08:00 -
[55]
I got my 7th Tech2 BPO on 12/20/05 and my 8th Tech2 BPO offer on 12/29...
I (wisely) chose a field of research that I did not expect much competition in (Laser Physics since everyone and their brother is doing Starship Engineering).
I also trained the Laser Physics Skill to level 5, and Research Project Management Skill to level 4...
I have had all of these agent since R&D began and I had like a GAZILLION RP's so I deserve all my BPO's.
People with more Research Points have a better chance at getting tech2 BPO's, stop whining!
Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
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Amasera
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Posted - 2006.01.02 17:31:00 -
[56]
not too much into this. but i wish people would stop using the term "printing ISK" because they are not doign that. they are not making the money out of nowhere, the money come from other people who buy their stuff.
just wish people would stop refering to it like their making the ISK themselves.
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Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2006.01.02 17:42:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Irrilian
Originally by: Chode Rizoum
i got the huginn ... on my alt lol.. dunno what to do with it.. never builded anything.. think i will put it into corp hangar. so people can build for them self
Im afraid Im not clued up about how it exactly works, but should you not be sure what to do with the bpo yet, you might want to consider NAGA's Stepstone project: you lodge the bpo with them, they handle all the production, sales etc and every week send you ISK. A reliable nice income for you requiring no effort, cheap techII ships for all, everyone wins. :)
DO IT!
Getting a nice t2 bpo is a dream to me, as I can just give it to NAGA, have them do all the work and get a steady income. I might not get as much isk as if I did it myself, but all the work would take away precious PVP time.
p - l - u - r
My first vid |
Tarack
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Posted - 2006.01.02 17:49:00 -
[58]
WTB "Aelius" Account, will pay poorly, due to good luck.
I hit in a field i know harldy anyone reseachers. My short story. its a L4 agent, highest agent in corp i forget the rp, but had him just about a year. Funny thing was, on Sisi i had an offer from him for something silly. 1 1/2 months later here, i got a real offer. Strange ey?
BTW Ill take that Spike S off your hands. I build ammo for the mass's, and not just alliance's or corpies. If your interested, send me a mail and see what we can work out.
WTS: 1 Ex-wife, slightly used. Fully equiped, includes, My house, my car, my dog and my new ex girlfriend................. |
Ashis
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Posted - 2006.01.02 17:49:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Skelator
Bravo Aelius,
I applaude your integrity and sense of Ethics
/signed
__________
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Xrak
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Posted - 2006.01.02 17:52:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Xrak
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
All T2 BPO's need to be taking out the game and replaced with large run BPC's.
The system would work exactly as it is now, except agents give you offers for BPC's not BPO's. A 100 run HAC BPC is ofc going to cost you more rp then a 5 run Raptor BPC. This means that more people would get a chance of geting a good T2 BPC and would spread the wealth. Also because the BPC's are being continously given out, they will more likly be more fairly given out. The chance of someone getting 8 t2 bpos, out of 2000 is much higher then them gettin 8 BPC's out of 200000.
I'll say it before, i'll say it again:
You REALLY want 30 mil interceptors.
How so?
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Spektral
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Posted - 2006.01.02 18:14:00 -
[61]
Ok, no offense to the lucky guy who is both a gentleman and a very nice guy for not being a person that would go "neener neener I got 8 t2 bpos" props to you. However realistically all fields would have a substantial amount of points in them , and a person receiving 8 bpo's would entail a massive amount of luck or a problem. I personally have 4 agents and dont expect a bpo ever since my RP are low (10k). However With the way BPO's are seeded through the lottery u wouldnt know there was a problem since there is not enough data for the playerbase to analyse and comment on. Personally I would like to see the devs come clean and define exactly to the detail the performace of the BPO seeding and the process it is implemented with so some of the best of us players who have been tireless giving the playerbase the advantages of there effort (treacking guide, missile guide, and offline shipfitter). That way we as a playerbase can help contribute and make the game better for all of us.
Props to the OP for being a all round nice guy!
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.01.02 18:17:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Neon Genesis
T2 BPO = insta uber wealth.
Everyone who says this should be shot, stabbed, and mutilated.
T2 BPOs uber wealth my ass. Maybe a good 2% of them, if you're lucky.
-
Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.02 18:20:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Xrak
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Xrak
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
All T2 BPO's need to be taking out the game and replaced with large run BPC's.
The system would work exactly as it is now, except agents give you offers for BPC's not BPO's. A 100 run HAC BPC is ofc going to cost you more rp then a 5 run Raptor BPC. This means that more people would get a chance of geting a good T2 BPC and would spread the wealth. Also because the BPC's are being continously given out, they will more likly be more fairly given out. The chance of someone getting 8 t2 bpos, out of 2000 is much higher then them gettin 8 BPC's out of 200000.
I'll say it before, i'll say it again:
You REALLY want 30 mil interceptors.
How so?
The VAST majority of players do have the patience or skills to make T2. Only certain corperations and players do it. They will be required, under your idea, to also spend a lot of time hunting down and buying (for varying prices) BPC's.
Not all of them will be willing to do it, hence immediately cutting down the builder pool. Then there will be the far higher per-unit costs...given the need to constantly buy BPC's and the massive amounts of time invoimved in in gathering them. And then you won't be able to produce constantly, pushing prices up AGAIN.
It's a bad idea all round.
Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2006.01.02 18:29:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Qutsemnie on 02/01/2006 18:30:11
Quote:
Quote:
You REALLY want 30 mil interceptors.
How so?
The VAST majority of players do have the patience or skills to make T2. Only certain corperations and players do it. They will be required, under your idea, to also spend a lot of time hunting down and buying (for varying prices) BPC's.
...
Not all of them will be willing to do it, hence immediately cutting down the builder pool.
It's a bad idea all round.
Your implying that all the people that want to make T2 modules are able to do so. But we know just as often there is a significant cartel influence. The suggestion would constantly refresh the incumbent producers making prices to be more likely to work in a natural way. In addition these lazily described T2 producers already track down many components for each and every T2 module. A BPC is just another supply amoungst many there is no reason to predict that it would quadrouple prices when properly seeded.
In addition a constant and vigorous cycle of 100 BPC would energize a research agent culture.
Predicting quadrouple interceptor prices is crazy.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.02 18:33:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 02/01/2006 18:34:48
Riight.
There are cartels on 2 T2 BPO's, and you'd be hard pressed to name the second.
And I'm sure there are a lot of people who THINK they'd like to make T2. When it comes down to it, most of them (as history has proven) will find it unfun in the extreme (it's very complex and the return is not as high as some people like to suggest except on certain specific BPO's).
If you want 30 mil interceptors, that's fine. I DON'T, hence I think the idea is trash.
(PS, 30 is a LOW figure. Remember that without constant demand many POS operations will close, boosting component prices - probably by a large degree!...)
You BADLY underestimate a lot of factors at work within EVe which contribute to a really very fragile equilibrium (look at the way prices are rising right now for some items which have less dedicated producers thanks to just the RAM issue!)
Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2006.01.02 18:37:00 -
[66]
Why would it be any more of a price problem then the rest of the components for an interceptor? Though to be honest i think the suggestion would disrupt the t2 flavor of the game. I just think going "oh well if people need to get BPCs then ...thats it 30 million!" i dunno sounds silly.
Afterall you would agree that CCP could adjust seed rate over time until it dropped below 15 million having one server to monitor right?
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.02 18:44:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 02/01/2006 18:44:29
Because we'e talking the limiting component in production. (RAM's are a side issue on this right now, I agree, but not going there).
There are multiple sources and suppliers for everything else, from people who are producing them on a regular basis. Random drops of the single critical item needed for production to random people who may or may not know what to do with it, may or may not know who the suppliers are and may or may not try for 3 months to produce and end up making 2 interceptors at a loss at the end...
...leads to VASTLY higher T2 production costs and NO way to guarantee supplies, so you need to spend vast periods of time searching for BPC's to enture even semi-constant prioduction. And time is ISK.
Either that or they're so common that no-one needs to GO to the dedicated suppliers anymore, turning it into another version of the T1 market.
Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Miramax
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Posted - 2006.01.02 18:56:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Neon Genesis
T2 BPO = insta uber wealth.
Everyone who says this should be shot, stabbed, and mutilated.
T2 BPOs uber wealth my ass. Maybe a good 2% of them, if you're lucky.
why do you say that?
these things are worth hundreds of millions even if u have a crappy one...
sounds like a lot to me
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Soren
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Posted - 2006.01.02 19:01:00 -
[69]
I've had an agent in Mechanical Engineering for WELL over a year and still no BP...  
_______________________________________________
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Mina Roberts
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Posted - 2006.01.02 19:02:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Miramax
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Neon Genesis
T2 BPO = insta uber wealth.
Everyone who says this should be shot, stabbed, and mutilated.
T2 BPOs uber wealth my ass. Maybe a good 2% of them, if you're lucky.
why do you say that?
these things are worth hundreds of millions even if u have a crappy one...
sounds like a lot to me
Are you noob then? The average T2 bpo is worth between 1 and 3 bill, that is NOT a lot, 3 bill can be made with work from 0.0 npcing or mining and it doesn't take that long, and if you say otherwise, your still a noob. T2 bpos are valued at how much it can earn in about a full year usually, so if you produce one of the cheaper T2 bpos, your only going to make 1-3 bill over the space of a YEAR, not even worth anyones time unless your a brand new player, and then you wont be able to produce it anyway.
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2006.01.02 19:04:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Soren
I've had an agent in Mechanical Engineering for WELL over a year and still no BP...
Have the same field on one agent, since the start of R&D was available basicaly
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
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Niaski Zalani
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Posted - 2006.01.02 19:15:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Xrak
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
All T2 BPO's need to be taking out the game and replaced with large run BPC's.
The system would work exactly as it is now, except agents give you offers for BPC's not BPO's. A 100 run HAC BPC is ofc going to cost you more rp then a 5 run Raptor BPC. This means that more people would get a chance of geting a good T2 BPC and would spread the wealth. Also because the BPC's are being continously given out, they will more likly be more fairly given out. The chance of someone getting 8 t2 bpos, out of 2000 is much higher then them gettin 8 BPC's out of 200000.
Another problem with this is what happens to those of us who have spent tens of billions on t2 BPOs? Do we get them replaced by tens of billions worth of BPCs? How would CCP decide how much a BPC is worth? They couldn't base it on rareity... They couldn't base it on usefulness of the ship/mod in question... so how do you propose that would work?
In short, please do not propose drastic changes without thinking them all the way through.
include 'clue';
if ($youdontliket2prices == 1) {
$dontbuyt2 == 1
}; |
Niaski Zalani
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Posted - 2006.01.02 19:17:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Mina Roberts
Are you noob then? The average T2 bpo is worth between 1 and 3 bill, that is NOT a lot, 3 bill can be made with work from 0.0 npcing or mining and it doesn't take that long, and if you say otherwise, your still a noob. T2 bpos are valued at how much it can earn in about a full year usually, so if you produce one of the cheaper T2 bpos, your only going to make 1-3 bill over the space of a YEAR, not even worth anyones time unless your a brand new player, and then you wont be able to produce it anyway.
include 'clue';
if ($youdontliket2prices == 1) {
$dontbuyt2 == 1
}; |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.01.02 19:21:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 02/01/2006 18:34:48
Riight.
There are cartels on 2 T2 BPO's, and you'd be hard pressed to name the second.
What's the second?
-
Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2006.01.02 19:37:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Qutsemnie on 02/01/2006 19:45:43
Edited by: Qutsemnie on 02/01/2006 19:41:30
You guys took a risk when you spent tens of billions on a BPO expecting to be able to pass it on to an end consumer. If it wasnt a risk then there is your problem.
In the end though your prolly right. Best to direct any changes at FUTURE tech 2 components and not past ones for unworkable problems such as "I took a risk thinking this was unique"
One thing that concerns me about this structure is an ancedotal story. If you look at a game called "Second Life" where it has sanctioned trading of "isk" for real life money and the concept of property ownership youll find the entity at the top of the food chain is not a player but IGN. The number one property owner and investment person in that game isnt a player at all.
There is this perception in eve that the people making the ebay isk are at the bottom of the food chain. Miners. And the reason i tell you my ancedotal story is to tell you IGN doesnt always play from the bottom of the food chain. Those guys have a history of being able to invest RL to get a dominate position early in games and tech 2.. thats a dominate position. Real concern? Who knows. A real vulnerability in eve though? yes.
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Miramax
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Posted - 2006.01.02 19:49:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Mina Roberts
Originally by: Miramax
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Neon Genesis
T2 BPO = insta uber wealth.
Everyone who says this should be shot, stabbed, and mutilated.
T2 BPOs uber wealth my ass. Maybe a good 2% of them, if you're lucky.
why do you say that?
these things are worth hundreds of millions even if u have a crappy one...
sounds like a lot to me
Are you noob then? The average T2 bpo is worth between 1 and 3 bill, that is NOT a lot, 3 bill can be made with work from 0.0 npcing or mining and it doesn't take that long, and if you say otherwise, your still a noob. T2 bpos are valued at how much it can earn in about a full year usually, so if you produce one of the cheaper T2 bpos, your only going to make 1-3 bill over the space of a YEAR, not even worth anyones time unless your a brand new player, and then you wont be able to produce it anyway.
i'm really sorry if i consider 2billion alot of isk
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.02 20:03:00 -
[77]
Qutsemnie, LOL
Show me IGE's tools in game. Please.
HUNDREDS of PvPers will descend on them. I among them.
(I have no issue with Ebay, I DO have issues with IGE).
This game is PvP. NOT IGE's traditional field.
Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.01.02 20:09:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Aelius
My luck is utterly out of whack.
I'll take one of those BPOs you didn't care to get. :P
But yeah, T2 is all f'ed up. They need to have a shelflife and keep getting re-seeded, they also should probably have some heavy reqs to get one, like leeching all RPs for that char with that corp or something. Or at the very least, researching should involve some real work. The rewards can kick any mission loot's ass.
Originally by: Asnar
Bush:but most importantly wtf was my carrier doing without support?
Admiral: well sorry mr president, guess you're not that stupid after all.....
Bush: /me shoots Admiral
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Niaski Zalani
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Posted - 2006.01.02 20:20:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Niaski Zalani on 02/01/2006 20:21:47
Originally by: Qutsemnie
Edited by: Qutsemnie on 02/01/2006 19:45:43
Edited by: Qutsemnie on 02/01/2006 19:41:30
You guys took a risk when you spent tens of billions on a BPO expecting to be able to pass it on to an end consumer. If it wasnt a risk then there is your problem.
In the end though your prolly right. Best to direct any changes at FUTURE tech 2 components and not past ones for unworkable problems such as "I took a risk thinking this was unique"
One thing that concerns me about this structure is an ancedotal story. If you look at a game called "Second Life" where it has sanctioned trading of "isk" for real life money and the concept of property ownership youll find the entity at the top of the food chain is not a player but IGN. The number one property owner and investment person in that game isnt a player at all.
There is this perception in eve that the people making the ebay isk are at the bottom of the food chain. Miners. And the reason i tell you my ancedotal story is to tell you IGN doesnt always play from the bottom of the food chain. Those guys have a history of being able to invest RL to get a dominate position early in games and tech 2.. thats a dominate position. Real concern? Who knows. A real vulnerability in eve though? yes.
So if I understand correctly, which I'd be supprised if I do, you're blaming T2 for the ISK that is sold on ebay? What does that have to do with the topic at hand? Even if this were true and the T2 prints were replaced by BPCs, whats stopping those who, you say, are building from T2 BPOs and selling on ebay to switching to building from masses of T2 BPCs and selling on ebay?
Secondly, I do agree that there should be, and there is for most people, a risk in buying T2 BPOs. For example, one could spend 2b on a print and in the very next patch, CCP nerfs that item/ship to hell. This would hurt your sales and thus damage the return on investment. Obviously, if you had known about the nerf before you bought the BPO, you proabably wouldnt have paid 2b for it. This is an example of one type of change that CCP could make that would effect T2 manufacturers (at least those with the BPO in question) and thus is an example of the risk associated in buy a T2 BPO.
The second type of change is the one I have a problem with. If CCP goes back and replaces all the current T2 BPOs with BPCs, thats more then a market change or a nerf on one item. This change would effect EVERYBODY in t2 manufacturing (and not in a postive way). People who have spent their entire eve carreers getting isk to buy t2 BPOs would be slapped in the face.
Granted, if CCP could somehow value the current T2 BPO(s) any given person owns and replace them with BPCs worth the exact same ammount (and it could be proven that doing this would not totally screw over the market) then I would be in support of this idea. However, the fact is that they just cant put an isk value on t2 BPOs, much less BPCs. T2 BPOs are changing in value all the time. CCP simply could not value T2 prints accuratly enough to be able to evenly exchange them with T2 BPCs.
Edit: For the record, I have NEVER received a T2 BPO from an agent and yet I have somehow managed to produce off 6 t2 BPOs in my eve career.
include 'clue';
if ($youdontliket2prices == 1) {
$dontbuyt2 == 1
}; |
Dreck Morrison
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Posted - 2006.01.02 20:22:00 -
[80]
I for one did not get a single bpo in RMR - but I don't really care since that is how the system works. I did get 2 bpo hits right before the RMR patch. Both were about 40K RP that I had amassed over nearly 2 years with these agents. I now own 8 T2 BPOs, but I bought the rest of them with isk made from trading and mining. Building t2 is difficult yet fun as well since it involves trading, planning, spreadsheets and lots of player interaction on the market.
The thing I am sad about is that I didn't have the fore-sight 2 years ago to start up 10 accounts with agent missions/R&D characters and RPM skill lvl V on each. The massive release of t2 bpos and only having 11 agents on 2 accounts means at most I can win 11 bpos....even though I didn't get any yet.
Oh well gonna have to trade build and mine some more to buy what I want....
Dreck Morrison
p.s. If you can't tell I don't mind the system and hope that it isn't changed.
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Ashraaf
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Posted - 2006.01.02 20:29:00 -
[81]
Strange that those who have a BPO have new one, but lot of people appear's to never have one
If there's a problem with the lottery, it will be fair to stop distribution now, correct the problem and start
It's not possible to get the BPO for winner, but stop the distribution if only a small group of person could get lucky
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Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2006.01.02 20:45:00 -
[82]
i think half of the problem is soooo many are researching in ships and few are researching others.
_______________________________________________
Deadspace For Dead space!
Originally by: Oveur
To the nerfmobile!
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Lord Frost
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Posted - 2006.01.02 20:58:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Trevedian
I got my 7th Tech2 BPO on 12/20/05 and my 8th Tech2 BPO offer on 12/29...
I (wisely) chose a field of research that I did not expect much competition in (Laser Physics since everyone and their brother is doing Starship Engineering).
I also trained the Laser Physics Skill to level 5, and Research Project Management Skill to level 4...
I have had all of these agent since R&D began and I had like a GAZILLION RP's so I deserve all my BPO's.
People with more Research Points have a better chance at getting tech2 BPO's, stop whining!
It amazes me how those words can flow so freely out of your mouth... maybe its because you have 8 t2 bpos! Now so be it, that you also prolly have 10 accounts, but I guess thats the kicker here. I'm sure CCP sat around the boardroom and said "This t2 bpo lottery idea is sweet! The hardcore gamers will buy even more accounts!".
Okay, great... pay more... get more. I can see that philosphy. But yet were back to the idea of rich people in real life rule richness in Eve. Whats the guy to do who can only afford 1 account? Science and research in Eve is just one field of gameplay, so why does it seem to rule Eve?
What about people who have no intention of doing research? Don't they deserve as much instawealth from sitting around and doing nothing like many of the t2 winners. I mean lets face facts, gaining rps/day doing nothing for such a big reward is comical. I know of 2 claymore bpos sold for over 15bil... did they deserve that? I dont know... but yes it was another means of income... but should everyone have to start a research agent just so he can compete in this economy?
Its a flawed system.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.01.02 20:59:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Lord Frost
Blah blah blah blah T2 BPO = instant wealth blah blah blah I know nothing blah blah blah
Please. Do I have to say this again?
T2 BPOs are not "instant wealth". I payed 4 billion for a pretty darn good one a while back, and while its earned me what I expected it would, the profit from it has been absolutely dwarfed by other profit I've made.
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Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2006.01.02 21:25:00 -
[85]
I am going to include a lot of random thoughts in this post to possibly get people thinking.
1) BPO's are patents, we know this because agents show "Predictable Patents" in their agent info.
1a) Dictionary.com Defines Patent as A grant made by a government that confers upon the creator of an invention the sole right to make, use, and sell that invention for a set period of time.
1b) 'A set period of time' so, why can these BPOs not be bought on the open market after ~3 months? I think IRL the Patent lasts for 6? months.
1bI) This would still allow the people receiving nice BPOs the time to get rich for 3 months, off those willing to pay for it, and us poor people the hope that they will become more available after a set amount of time.
2) These BPOs are being offered by employees of companies who, although they are researching for you, their loyalty should still be to their company, whilst giving you the patent, the BP should still be reported to their company, and become available through such corporation, after the patent expires. IE, 3 months after the claw comes out, the patent expires, and Brutor Tribe sell the ships @ an NPC price (10 millionish)
3) The lottery is crap.
4) Does it randomly choose a LP from the pool and see who that LP belongs too? Because to me, this is the only way for it to truly be random, yet it also seems to be impossible (we all know CCP log nothing)
5) Rant some more
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Ramov Tinoga
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Posted - 2006.01.02 21:26:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Miramax
these things are worth hundreds of millions even if u have a crappy one...
Tell that to my Acolyte II BPO. 
Aelius, I think you're cursed. 
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Verify client downloads with MD5 checksums! |
Caesium
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Posted - 2006.01.02 21:27:00 -
[87]
if i had to guess on the second it'd be either HS2, cpu2 or rcu2
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.01.02 21:28:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/01/2006 21:28:46
Originally by: Hamatitio
3) The lottery is crap.
No, its actually the best system yet thought up.
NOBODY has yet made a suggestion in all my time reading the forums that is superior. There have been some suggestions to improve the lottery (such as the degrading RP-per-day-if-you-don't-do-a-mission idea), however.
Its like the old adage "Democracy is a horrible form of government, except all the others are worse."
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Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Mina Roberts
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Posted - 2006.01.02 21:43:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Hamatitio
I am going to include a lot of random thoughts in this post to possibly get people thinking.
1) BPO's are patents, we know this because agents show "Predictable Patents" in their agent info.
1a) Dictionary.com Defines Patent as A grant made by a government that confers upon the creator of an invention the sole right to make, use, and sell that invention for a set period of time.
1b) 'A set period of time' so, why can these BPOs not be bought on the open market after ~3 months? I think IRL the Patent lasts for 6? months.
1bI) This would still allow the people receiving nice BPOs the time to get rich for 3 months, off those willing to pay for it, and us poor people the hope that they will become more available after a set amount of time.
2) These BPOs are being offered by employees of companies who, although they are researching for you, their loyalty should still be to their company, whilst giving you the patent, the BP should still be reported to their company, and become available through such corporation, after the patent expires. IE, 3 months after the claw comes out, the patent expires, and Brutor Tribe sell the ships @ an NPC price (10 millionish)
3) The lottery is crap.
4) Does it randomly choose a LP from the pool and see who that LP belongs too? Because to me, this is the only way for it to truly be random, yet it also seems to be impossible (we all know CCP log nothing)
5) Rant some more
Allow me to answer this for you.
T2 BPO's do not become available on the market after a few months because CCP WANT it this way - it has nothing to do with "real life patents"
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.01.02 21:49:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Nyphur on 02/01/2006 21:50:02
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 02/01/2006 18:34:48
Riight.
There are cartels on 2 T2 BPO's, and you'd be hard pressed to name the second.
What's the second?
Cap recharger II and Improved Cloaking Device II are the two I know of. The cloak bpos were given out as prizes and they all contacted each other and set up a cartel.
The next one will be the Cap relay II, which is out but most are researching.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.01.02 21:56:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Nyphur
Edited by: Nyphur on 02/01/2006 21:50:02
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 02/01/2006 18:34:48
Riight.
There are cartels on 2 T2 BPO's, and you'd be hard pressed to name the second.
What's the second?
Cap recharger II and Improved Cloaking Device II are the two I know of. The cloak bpos were given out as prizes and they all contacted each other and set up a cartel.
The next one will be the Cap relay II, which is out but most are researching.
Isn't the Imp cloak high priced because its in short supply?
Or is the short supply intentional?
-
Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Lord Frost
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Posted - 2006.01.02 22:03:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Hamatitio
I am going to include a lot of random thoughts in this post to possibly get people thinking.
1) BPO's are patents, we know this because agents show "Predictable Patents" in their agent info.
1a) Dictionary.com Defines Patent as A grant made by a government that confers upon the creator of an invention the sole right to make, use, and sell that invention for a set period of time.
1b) 'A set period of time' so, why can these BPOs not be bought on the open market after ~3 months? I think IRL the Patent lasts for 6? months.
1bI) This would still allow the people receiving nice BPOs the time to get rich for 3 months, off those willing to pay for it, and us poor people the hope that they will become more available after a set amount of time.
I think this is the BEST idea yet. I think all t2 should be patents with the winner able to produce as many as they want in a set period of time. I think 3 or 4 months is acceptable for all mods... maybe a bit longer for all ships.
This will do several things...
1. It will offer up more and more patents once some have ended... giving more people chances to share in the "wealth" and happiness of winning a t2.
2. It will make the winner rush to the market and sell as many as possible in that alloted time. Thus, stirring up the competition in the t2 which is greatly needed.
3. It will make A LOT of people happier.
4. Then once t3 hits, all t2 is then slowly released to market, and t3 then follows the patent rules.
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Thomdril Merrilin
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Posted - 2006.01.02 22:21:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Aelius
Edited by: Aelius on 02/01/2006 07:44:15
That makes 8 BPO's so far, 7 with Aelius, 1 with a R&D maxed alt of mine.
h4x tbh.
gratz tho
Originally by: Oveur
EVE Online - even the forums have PVP
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2006.01.02 22:50:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Hamatitio on 02/01/2006 22:55:48
Edited by: Hamatitio on 02/01/2006 22:51:35
I would have no problem if the lottery worked like number 4 in my previous post, however I am fairly certain it does not.
-Having everyone's RP in a pool for each field, and then selecting one RP and seeing to whom it belongs. The only possible way I could see this being implemented would be to drastically cut down on RP/day and assign some gigantic numbered ID to each.
According to Statistics, that would be the only way everyone's RP has an equal chance of being picked, yet those with more would have a higher probability of having the LP picked be theirs, (much like the BIG lottery?)
As someone earlier suggested, Picking an agent, and then Randomly choosing a winner based on the amount of RP, although appears to be the same, is, in fact, not. After the first selection is made (where everyone has a chance of being picked) the second selection reduces the population down to (made up number of 1/100th), thus excluding (made up number 99%) of the population from the second choice. This does not allow the entirety of the original Population to have the same probability of being chosen throughout the lottery, thus it would be flawed.
This new version of the lottery, in which everyone has an equal chance of being selected, and the new Patent time Limit system, would be the most fair way to distribute tech 2 items IMO. The current Tech 2 BPOs in game could remain how they are, and we could begin anew with COMPLETE RESEEDING of every item, as to allow double the production (exluding the RAM of course - not for this thread tho) for nearly double the playerbase as to when these rules regarding 8 of each BPO were introduced, (2 years?) ago.
Again, I am not sure how this works, would be nice if someone who did could enlighten me.
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Imran
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Posted - 2006.01.02 23:11:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Imran on 02/01/2006 23:12:29
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBIIESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS tech II.
edit
Hama is correct.
EwokPoacher: Why hate Gallente?
Blackest Sheep: Because we are beautiful |
Kylania
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Posted - 2006.01.02 23:55:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Lord Frost
Blah blah blah blah T2 BPO = instant wealth blah blah blah I know nothing blah blah blah
Please. Do I have to say this again?
T2 BPOs are not "instant wealth". I payed 4 billion for a pretty darn good one a while back, and while its earned me what I expected it would, the profit from it has been absolutely dwarfed by other profit I've made.
While making 4 BILLION might not be "wealth" to you, to the rest of us it sure the hell is. Please stop assuming everyone is as rich as you and considers x ammount of ISK being worth the same amount as you would.
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Lil Miner |
000Hunter000
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Posted - 2006.01.03 00:20:00 -
[97]
Now i'm not implying any cheating going on but am i the only one who noticed that a lot of the T2 bpo winners are in big alliances/corps???
Allthough i have no proof whatsoever on the following statement but i'm seriously starting to think ccp is seeding the T2's deliberatly into certain groups, prolly to maintain a status quo.
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Uncle Angus
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Posted - 2006.01.03 00:37:00 -
[98]
Originally by: 000Hunter000
Now i'm not implying any cheating going on but am i the only one who noticed that a lot of the T2 bpo winners are in big alliances/corps???
Perhaps that's where the majority of people who research are?? Anyway, I'm not in a big alliance or corp and I got my first offer today. 10k RP on a year old agent in electromagnetic physics.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.01.03 02:04:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 02/01/2006 18:34:48
Riight.
There are cartels on 2 T2 BPO's, and you'd be hard pressed to name the second.
What's the second?
Why simply the most important T2 item ever created...
T2 Sensor Boosters!
Originally by: Asnar
Bush:but most importantly wtf was my carrier doing without support?
Admiral: well sorry mr president, guess you're not that stupid after all.....
Bush: /me shoots Admiral
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.01.03 02:32:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Hamatitio
Edited by: Hamatitio on 02/01/2006 22:55:48
Edited by: Hamatitio on 02/01/2006 22:51:35
I would have no problem if the lottery worked like number 4 in my previous post, however I am fairly certain it does not.
-Having everyone's RP in a pool for each field, and then selecting one RP and seeing to whom it belongs. The only possible way I could see this being implemented would be to drastically cut down on RP/day and assign some gigantic numbered ID to each.
According to Statistics, that would be the only way everyone's RP has an equal chance of being picked, yet those with more would have a higher probability of having the LP picked be theirs, (much like the BIG lottery?)
As someone earlier suggested, Picking an agent, and then Randomly choosing a winner based on the amount of RP, although appears to be the same, is, in fact, not. After the first selection is made (where everyone has a chance of being picked) the second selection reduces the population down to (made up number of 1/100th), thus excluding (made up number 99%) of the population from the second choice. This does not allow the entirety of the original Population to have the same probability of being chosen throughout the lottery, thus it would be flawed.
This new version of the lottery, in which everyone has an equal chance of being selected, and the new Patent time Limit system, would be the most fair way to distribute tech 2 items IMO. The current Tech 2 BPOs in game could remain how they are, and we could begin anew with COMPLETE RESEEDING of every item, as to allow double the production (exluding the RAM of course - not for this thread tho) for nearly double the playerbase as to when these rules regarding 8 of each BPO were introduced, (2 years?) ago.
Again, I am not sure how this works, would be nice if someone who did could enlighten me.
It is done as a raffle, with each RP as a ticket.
So for example, if there are 100 million RPs in a field, it picks a number from 1 to 100 million, and whoever owns that one wins.
-
Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.01.03 02:33:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Kylania
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Lord Frost
Blah blah blah blah T2 BPO = instant wealth blah blah blah I know nothing blah blah blah
Please. Do I have to say this again?
T2 BPOs are not "instant wealth". I payed 4 billion for a pretty darn good one a while back, and while its earned me what I expected it would, the profit from it has been absolutely dwarfed by other profit I've made.
While making 4 BILLION might not be "wealth" to you, to the rest of us it sure the hell is. Please stop assuming everyone is as rich as you and considers x ammount of ISK being worth the same amount as you would.
I PAYED THAT FOR THE BPO.
I did not say it EARNED ME THAT.
They do not make instant wealth unless you sell the BPO itself.
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Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Dude Knute
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Posted - 2006.01.03 02:37:00 -
[102]
I had 4 BPo's awarded in 4 days. 3 from 1 character (w/5 agents) and 1 from another char (w/ 5agents and higher RP). All minor, but I am making a little isk out of them. I to could not believe my luck.
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Azuriel Talloth
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Posted - 2006.01.03 02:42:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Dude Knute
I had 4 BPo's awarded in 4 days. 3 from 1 character (w/5 agents) and 1 from another char (w/ 5agents and higher RP). All minor, but I am making a little isk out of them. I to could not believe my luck.
I'm glad I've never wasted time trying to get in on this "lottery"
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