EVE Search - Talos: 90% webs at every gate?

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Talos: 90% webs at every gate?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
m0cking bird Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2011.10.29 16:17:00 - [31] - Quote A mobile nerf sounds good to me. T3's and most ships will get stepped on I suppose. However, I think this is being over blown.
Jacob Stov 2	Posted - 2011.10.29 16:41:00 - [32] - Quote There was a reason to reduce web strength to 75%. Introducing 90% webs on the most popular combat ship class looks like backpaddeling. Well, lets see how it performs on SiSi.
1-Up Mushroom Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 54	Posted - 2011.10.29 16:50:00 - [33] - Quote Tanya Powers wrote: Aamrr wrote: Much has been made about the Tornado and its potential for suicide ganking, but I think the forums have so far missed a bigger issue in the tier-3 battlecruiser designs. The Talos offers a 90% web on a dirt cheap hull. Every gate camp will now have one. One of the common strategies for a gatecamp is burning back to gate and going back the way you came. With an overheated MWD and a bit of momentum, you can often manage to make it back in a decently agile hull. With 90% webs on the field, this changes. Previously, 90% webs were reserved for nine ships. All of them cost at least 100 million isk and none were insurable in the slightest. The cheapest two were frigates, and therefore difficult to keep alive under lowsec sentry fire. A well-equipped gatecamp might well be expected to have one, but they were the exception rather than the rule. Is this a good change for the gatecamping ecosystem? I don't know. But it's certainly a significant change from a universe where 90% webs were the exclusive purview of T2 and faction hulls. I don't see you whiners about the Talos come up and say it's silly the shortest range weapons system is screwed with overpowered scorch pulses shooting nuclear dmg at 65km + I don't see you whiners bothered because you have overall the best line up ships in eve I don't see you whiners, at least once, admit gallente ships/guns are completely screwed Now the Talos, if, he gets some web bonus are making you whine because you have to use tactics and brains. Wow, isn't this cute... Now let me get this straight: I for once will maybe start flying Gallente since I'm flying now Minmatar because I don't have the choice if I want to fleet up. Alpha? -Amarr Minmatar Skirmish? -Amarr Minmatar Med engagements? : Minmatar Amarr Drakes Undock games? -wtfpown pilgrims curses rapiers munnins zealots vagas cynabals dramiels DD's and I'll stop here Logistics? - Scimitars Guardians, sometimes (really rare) Basilisk So gallente gets one ship, with one bonus needed if you don't want blasters to get your pulse optimal and autos tracking, and you find ways to whine... lolwut, I read that entire thing twice and still couldn't figure out what he was saying 5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!-á If You Like My Sig, Like Me!
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 74	Posted - 2011.10.29 17:12:00 - [34] - Quote Jacob Stov wrote: There was a reason to reduce web strength to 75%. Introducing 90% webs on the most popular combat ship class looks like backpaddeling. Well, lets see how it performs on SiSi. Hell I tossed my cofee by my nose when I just read this stuff "there was a reason to reduce strength to 75%" "introducing 90% webs on the most popular combat ship" How's that?? Canes and Drakes are getting 75% webs? How powerful Rapiers will be with 75% strength webs? How about stop smoking your funny stuff?
Aamrr HnL Enterprise 124	Posted - 2011.10.29 17:30:00 - [35] - Quote Whoa! I walk away from my thread for 2 hours everyone's accusing me of whining. That wasn't my intent at all. I don't necessarily have a problem with the Talos's ewar bonus. It's an interesting decision, and I honestly think that the ship class is going to be successful, they either have to have a tracking bonus, a range (optimal/falloff) bonus, or an ewar bonus -- large turrets simply aren't going to track the targets these will hunt without them. If the Talos is going to be a blaster platform, a web bonus is only sensible. I just wanted to take a look at the ramifications of theTalos as a heavy-tackle platform in one of the more common Eve PvP environments. This is why I said I didn't know if it would be a good or bad change. I'm looking forward to seeing these ships hit Tranquility. I wanted a chance to discuss the effect of their ewar bonus. Please don't accuse me of whining prematurely?
Cillet Baang Scott University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.10.29 17:55:00 - [36] - Quote Aamrr wrote: Whoa! I walk away from my thread for 2 hours everyone's accusing me of whining. That wasn't my intent at all. I don't necessarily have a problem with the Talos's ewar bonus. It's an interesting decision, and I honestly think that the ship class is going to be successful, they either have to have a tracking bonus, a range (optimal/falloff) bonus, or an ewar bonus -- large turrets simply aren't going to track the targets these will hunt without them. If the Talos is going to be a blaster platform, a web bonus is only sensible. I just wanted to take a look at the ramifications of theTalos as a heavy-tackle platform in one of the more common Eve PvP environments. This is why I said I didn't know if it would be a good or bad change. I'm looking forward to seeing these ships hit Tranquility. I wanted a chance to discuss the effect of their ewar bonus. Please don't accuse me of whining prematurely? Forum posting is always whining.
Aamrr HnL Enterprise 124	Posted - 2011.10.29 18:14:00 - [37] - Quote But I'm too young to be a bitter vet! whine
dream3874 Hard Knocks Inc. 1	Posted - 2011.10.29 18:41:00 - [38] - Quote Yes and this is a problem why?
Veronica Kerrigan Hand Of Midas F0RCEFUL ENTRY 2	Posted - 2011.10.29 18:49:00 - [39] - Quote how is this any different from sitting a dual web rapier on a gate? Same web strength, but with more than twice as much range. As far as I know, those are not game breaking, so how is this again?
Aamrr HnL Enterprise 124	Posted - 2011.10.29 19:01:00 - [40] - Quote Dual webs are about an 81% speed reduction. That's a far shot from 90, and there's nothing preventing a Talos from fitting dual webs, either -- which correspond to a 97.8% web. To give you an idea, the victim of your poor rapier would be going almost 9x faster.

Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 53	Posted - 2011.10.29 19:02:00 - [41] - Quote Veronica Kerrigan wrote: how is this any different from sitting a dual web rapier on a gate? Same web strength, but with more than twice as much range. As far as I know, those are not game breaking, so how is this again? Rapiers cost bux and some degree of SP, BCs don't cost ** or require that much SP. Edit: in addition to having your speed completely raped like Amarr said.' Edit2: How is "motherfuckers" not word-filtered but a 4 letter word for boo-boo is? Fon Revedhort wrote:** CCP is just clueless at what they are doing. It was clearly not enough to see all those drakes and canes around, now we're getting a new breed of the same OP dirt-cheap crap everyone will jump onto. Yeah, let's remove even those remains of diversity we still have. Let it be BC Online. I think CCP is fully aware of what they are doing. They just don't care if it expands on Battlecruisers Online because BC Online means a lot of subscribers.
Veronica Kerrigan Hand Of Midas F0RCEFUL ENTRY 2	Posted - 2011.10.29 19:24:00 - [42] - Quote AH yes, I had momentarily forgotten how the bonus was applied. However, I still think that this will be just another tool in the arsenal, much like a rapier or an Arazu. Don't forget that it will still have trouble locking small targets in time to stop them. My guess is that ships that can barely make it out, such as nano BC will get caught a lot more, but most of the cruisers and frigs will still be fine.
Jacob Stov 2	Posted - 2011.10.29 20:33:00 - [43] - Quote Tanya Powers wrote: Hell I tossed my cofee by my nose when I just read this stuff "there was a reason to reduce strength to 75%" "introducing 90% webs on the most popular combat ship" How's that?? Canes and Drakes are getting 75% webs? How powerful Rapiers will be with 75% strength webs? How about stop smoking your funny stuff? Sniffing coffee seems to have it's side effect, too. The most popular ship class. <- like err, battlecruisers ? Point stands. There was a reason to reduce webstrength. Replace 75% with 60% for faction webs if you feel better now.
Tallianna Avenkarde Beasts of Burden 112	Posted - 2011.10.29 22:44:00 - [44] - Quote Fon Revedhort wrote: CCP is just clueless at what they are doing. It was clearly not enough to see all those drakes and canes around, now we're getting a new breed of the same OP dirt-cheap crap everyone will jump onto. Yeah, let's remove even those remains of diversity we still have. Let it be BC Online. better BC online then supercap online. I think someone is just butthurt, cause they wasted SP on command ships and are wanting to fit them for combat, rather then you know, ganglinks, like they ar designed for. And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
Fon Revedhort Monks of War DarkSide. 17	Posted - 2011.10.29 22:52:00 - [45] - Quote Tallianna Avenkarde wrote: Fon Revedhort wrote: CCP is just clueless at what they are doing. It was clearly not enough to see all those drakes and canes around, now we're getting a new breed of the same OP dirt-cheap crap everyone will jump onto. Yeah, let's remove even those remains of diversity we still have. Let it be BC Online. better BC online then supercap online. I think someone is just butthurt, cause they wasted SP on command ships and are wanting to fit them for combat, rather then you know, ganglinks, like they ar designed for. lolwhat? I'm yet to see decent setups for Sleipnir, Astarte, Absolution and Nighthawk which would allow a smooth ganglink utilization. Whoever think they're designed for ganglinks is just as clueless as CCP. 2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is" 2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?" Nice progress, guys.
People's Republic ofChina My Other Capital Ship is Your Mom 6	Posted - 2011.10.29 22:55:00 - [46] - Quote Aamrr wrote: Much has been made about the Tornado and its potential for suicide ganking, but I think the forums have so far missed a bigger issue in the tier-3 battlecruiser designs. The Talos offers a 90% web on a dirt cheap hull. Every gate camp will now have one. The Talos also offers a powerful blaster suicide ganking platform when the Brutix won't cut it. It's tasty.
Calapine Xeno Tech Corp Flatline. 29	Posted - 2011.10.29 23:03:00 - [47] - Quote People's Republic ofChina wrote: The Talos also offers a powerful blaster suicide ganking platform when the Brutix won't cut it. It's tasty. Poor Brutix doesn't 'cut it' in 90% of todays PvP situations. I know it's common forum wisdom and not the most original thought, but the Tier system really fails on the sub-BS level and needs to go. Judging on how quick CCP reacted to projectil and hybrid issues I am sure we can expect them to look into it not later than Winter 2013. sighs
Istvaan Shogaatsu Guiding Hand Social Club 25	Posted - 2011.10.29 23:42:00 - [48] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: Ain't none of you motherfuckers ever making it back to the gate again. This swarthy fellow has expressed himself far more succintly than could I.
Desudes Pixelmoon The Star League 8	Posted - 2011.10.30 03:34:00 - [49] - Quote I like it. It allows cheaper gangs and thus, higher engagement rate. I personally am sick of the chicken **** attitude people take because they are in an expensive ship. Excuse me, but what the fck are you desu?*
Smiling Menace Star Nebulae Holdings Inc. 17	Posted - 2011.10.30 03:52:00 - [50] - Quote Gallente have been the lame ducks of EVE since the web nerf a few years back (years back? has it been so long??). Slowest ships with the shortest range on hybrids and if you get in range, virtually no way of keeping any ships there long enough to kill them. I have to laugh at all the posts about T2 hulls and the amount of SP needed to fly them for the same stats for webs as the Talos will get. What about all the Gallente pilots that effectively wasted millions of SP on ships that were made worthless? As one of said Gallente pilots, tell you what, CCP removes the web bonus for Talos but I get all SP back I have used on Gallente ships to use on any other ships that are actually useful. I can't believe people are already complaining about ships that haven't been released yet. I really do think there are a lot more people playing EVE of late that just want easy mode.

Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Limitless Inc. 183	Posted - 2011.10.30 04:25:00 - [51] - Quote Smiling Menace wrote: Gallente have been the lame ducks of EVE since the web nerf a few years back (years back? has it been so long??). But before that they were the - by far - strongest race in game for years. Nos/drone platforms, 90% webs, no bandwidth on ships, etc. Same time Amarr was jack ** (bar their recons) for same years. Minmatar and Caldari on the other hand, has been fairly well balanced through the years. Not perfect, but functional overall. I think the conclusion from that is simply that CCP repeatedly fail to iterate on Amarr/Gallente, so the issues will continue exist until there's a major overhaul - and frequest revisit - to put them in line with the other races. But that's not what this topic is about, so I'll just quote a previous poster: Mfume Apocal wrote:** Ain't none of you motherfuckers ever making it back to the gate again. this is a signature
Josefine Etrange Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2011.10.30 05:48:00 - [52] - Quote Aamrr wrote: Dual webs are about an 81% speed reduction. That's a far shot from 90, and there's nothing preventing a Talos from fitting dual webs, either -- which correspond to a 97.8% web. To give you an idea, the victim of your poor rapier would be going almost 9x faster. And in both cases their speed would be irrelevant. If you just become close enough to zero, its fair to asume for further calculation just zero. Though, this can not be compared anyway to a dedicated web ship, nor to the vindicator, one because of the lacking damage and the other because of its price tag. Stil there is already the little sister of the vindicator ... Desudes wrote: I like it. It allows cheaper gangs and thus, higher engagement rate. I personally am sick of the chicken **** attitude people take because they are in an expensive ship. That simply is part of eve. If you want this gone, make risk more profitable.
Fon Revedhort Monks of War DarkSide. 17	Posted - 2011.10.30 07:00:00 - [53] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: I think CCP is fully aware of what they are doing. They just don't care if it expands on Battlecruisers Online because BC Online means a lot of subscribers. I don't think so. If anything, it causes boredom and results in sub losses at the long run. 2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is" 2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?" Nice progress, guys.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 60	Posted - 2011.10.30 07:09:00 - [54] - Quote Josefine Etrange wrote: Desudes wrote: I like it. It allows cheaper gangs and thus, higher engagement rate. I personally am sick of the chicken ** attitude people take because they are in an expensive ship. That simply is part of eve. If you want this gone, make risk more profitable. While I'm largely neutral in this until the ships hit TQ and the metagame gets one or two months to shake out, I am somewhat apprehensive that these will overshadow field command ships as damage dealers/general purpose solopwnboats. Fon Revedhort wrote:** I don't think so. If anything, it causes boredom and results in sub losses at the long run. Checked out the new account plex deals? They definitely aren't thinking "long run" here. At any rate, average EVE player only stays for seven months, which is a figure that holds true across most games in general (singleplayer, MP, MMO, etc.) so it makes sense to offer content catering to them as opposed to telling them "train for 18 months (at a minimum) to get an end-game PvP ship."
draconothese Independant Celestial Enterprises Pink Fluffy Pussycats 3	Posted - 2011.10.30 08:43:00 - [55] - Quote im thinking this ship may use the webs to get rails to track if they even use this bonus we are a few months off from them putting this patch out so anything could change actualy this could be what they may do to all gallente ships to fix tracking who knows slow all ships to a crawl so we can hit them XD
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 60	Posted - 2011.10.30 08:46:00 - [56] - Quote draconothese wrote: im thinking this ship may use the webs to get rails to track if they even use this bonus we are a few months off from them putting this patch out so anything could change The webs aren't range bonused, so if you manage to web something, it's within blaster range already.
Desudes Pixelmoon The Star League 8	Posted - 2011.10.30 08:58:00 - [57] - Quote Josefine Etrange wrote: Desudes wrote: I like it. It allows cheaper gangs and thus, higher engagement rate. I personally am sick of the chicken ** attitude people take because they are in an expensive ship. That simply is part of eve. If you want this gone, make risk more profitable*. Be nice to see mechanics like being paid to kill war targets in FW, bounties similar to NPC rats. With ships like the Talos they are making it cheaper to PvP at least. I just wish they'd more reasons to fly battleships. Excuse me, but what the fck are you desu?
Jill Antaris Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 16	Posted - 2011.10.30 10:19:00 - [58] - Quote Aamrr wrote: The Talos offers a 90% web on a dirt cheap hull. Every gate camp will now have one. People said the same stuff about the Lachesis and the Kronos during the QR patch and repleted it with the change of serpentis ships.In a modern gatecamp it doesn't even matter since you already build it around people that want to get back to the gate by quick lock speed and ships that can put out serious damage in the common 30-40km window to shoot the target down before it escapes. 90% webs don't do instant slowdowns and are not more powerful by any means than a skilled tackler with a scram and a web(meaning bump first, and hit it with the web after it, not the other way around), a lachesis or a huginn.
Noisrevbus 1	Posted - 2011.10.30 12:50:00 - [59] - Quote Tanya Powers wrote: I don't see you whiners about the Talos come up and say it's silly the shortest range weapons system is screwed with overpowered scorch pulses shooting nuclear dmg at 65km + I don't see you whiners bothered because you have overall the best line up ships in eve I don't see you whiners, at least once, admit gallente ships/guns are completely screwed Now the Talos, if, he gets some web bonus are making you whine because you have to use tactics and brains. Wow, isn't this cute... Now let me get this straight: I for once will maybe start flying Gallente since I'm flying now Minmatar because I don't have the choice if I want to fleet up. I think you're missing the point entirely. It's not a question of begrudging a race or a weapon system, it's a question of it's larger application. In fact, the issue most people have with it (as did i when people on these forums first started suggesting 90% webs to deal with Blaster's issues of hitting in their optimal) is that they void the "tactics and brains" you speak of. Such a powerful gimmick on such a cheap hull have larger implications that are directly negative to the game and the strategy and smarts part about it. You can couple the larger discussion with Miriam Sasko's post on FHC. There are two issues adressed, one is that a powerful feature on a cheap ship priorly tied only to expensive ships will void their use. That goes for all these new tier three BC, as they all excel in, assume or mimic roles previously held by other, more expensive, ships (faction ships in terms of the Tornado and Talos, and tech II ships in terms of the Naga and Oracle). By extension it also serves as a plug in the ISK-sink (and i belive most people consider "moar drakes" an issue in this game, when it comes to the health of a nuanced tactical landscape in EVE). These are quite powerful concepts given to a new class of cheap and accessible hulls, and what are the existing ships intended to do? The Vindicator and Mach will probably remain popular on merit of their size, but Pirate Cruisers and Frigates as well as sniping HACs will take a hit with these changes in the same sense that Tech III more or less made CS (and to some extent certain HACs and Recons) obsolete and redundant. You end up with a more narrow landscape in regard to tactics and smarts. The second bit is what was brought up here and what Miriam bring up in the link and continued discussion in that thread. Powerful concepts on cheap and accessible platforms lead to throw-away design. An implication of that is shifting the curve between tactics and numbers. A ship that throw a dent in your wallet become a risk to use, and will require "tactics and brains", whereas a throw-away ship is simply there to pile on the effect (in numbers). Ultimately you give more tools to the larger side to supress the smaller, the gang to deter the solo pilot or the blob to further extinct the small gang. Gate camps is one aspect of that (lift the example from pirates catching bears in lowsec, to blobs catching roamers in nullsec - they don't need more tools to do that, and the emergent nature of roaming is already hampered in post-nano EVE). Miriam put it in his own perspective, and there have also been voices raised what it will do to various speed, kiting or ranged concepts. Wether the Talos become a good blaster platform or not, is really just a tiny speck of relevance in this larger picture. The 90% web is much more likely to empower camps, traps with bubbles and anti-mobility tactics that will make this game less rather than more over time. Edit: im adding the link to Miriam's post here because the new forums are **** and won't include it's own bbtags: http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?4235-More-possible-stat-changes.-Hybrid-changes-included&p=257443&viewfull=1#post257443
Grimpak Midnight Elites Echelon Rising 103	Posted - 2011.10.30 13:09:00 - [60] - Quote Misanth wrote: Smiling Menace wrote: Gallente have been the lame ducks of EVE since the web nerf a few years back (years back? has it been so long??). But before that they were the - by far - strongest race in game for years. Nos/drone platforms, 90% webs, no bandwidth on ships, etc. you mean back in the NOS age where the only good gallente ships were the drone ships that could offload their dps to drones and fit nos (domi and Eos) and other ships like curse, pilgrim, typhoon, tempest that also fitted NOS? or back in the damp age (+/- the same era) where you saw damps being fitted in every ship that had a spare midslot (not only gallente). or before the nano nerf where 90% webs were usable by all ships not only gallente (they were mandatory for blaster ships btw)? gallente had a number of good ships for many years yes, but they were never the top dogs, even pre-2006, when we consider gankageddons were better than b-throns at ganking. blasters were always almost sub-optimal, while all the other stuff grew, leaving it in the dust). [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img] [quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right



Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

Copyright © 2006-2025, Chribba - OMG Labs. All Rights Reserved. - perf 0,06s, ref 20250716/0331
EVE-Online™ and Eve imagery © CCP.

bitcoin: 1CHRiBBArqpw5Yz7x5KS2RRtN5ubEn5gF

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.