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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Aamrr
HnL Enterprise
123
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Posted - 2011.10.29 08:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Much has been made about the Tornado and its potential for suicide ganking, but I think the forums have so far missed a bigger issue in the tier-3 battlecruiser designs.
The Talos offers a 90% web on a dirt cheap hull. Every gate camp will now have one.
One of the common strategies for a gatecamp is burning back to gate and going back the way you came. With an overheated MWD and a bit of momentum, you can often manage to make it back in a decently agile hull. With 90% webs on the field, this changes.
Previously, 90% webs were reserved for nine ships. All of them cost at least 100 million isk and none were insurable in the slightest. The cheapest two were frigates, and therefore difficult to keep alive under lowsec sentry fire. A well-equipped gatecamp might well be expected to have one, but they were the exception rather than the rule.
Is this a good change for the gatecamping ecosystem? I don't know. But it's certainly a significant change from a universe where 90% webs were the exclusive purview of T2 and faction hulls. |
Comy 1
Ore Mongers
Indecisive Certainty
55
|
Posted - 2011.10.29 08:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
14.2km web range with a loki booster using a t2 web, even without heat. Atleast regional gates will make you spawn far away enough.
I totally agree with OP, gonna be interresting to see the remote sensor boosted Talos sitting in every camp :) |
Mfume Apocal
Origin.
Black Legion.
50
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Posted - 2011.10.29 08:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ain't none of you motherfuckers ever making it back to the gate again. |
Lojak 2501
Ignus Astrum
The Veyr Collective
2
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Posted - 2011.10.29 08:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
where are you seeing the bonuses for the new ships?
ive been keeping an eye for them and cant find bonuses or stats |
Comy 1
Ore Mongers
Indecisive Certainty
55
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Posted - 2011.10.29 08:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lojak 2501 wrote:where are you seeing the bonuses for the new ships?
ive been keeping an eye for them and cant find bonuses or stats
It's nothing official, but people have datamined the cache files from a test build. Even if the bonuses are not final, I would say they are atleast likely to happen. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
146
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Posted - 2011.10.29 08:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lojak 2501 wrote:where are you seeing the bonuses for the new ships?
ive been keeping an eye for them and cant find bonuses or stats
This is a dump that was extracted from SiSi. None of the things you see are in concrete and are subject to change... but what's there is quite interesting.
"Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
Alliance not Found
5
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Posted - 2011.10.29 08:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
The rate at which you slow down is still driven by the mass and agility of the hull you're flying... and it's not like we haven't had 90% webs for more of EVE's history than not.
People will still get through. |
Lojak 2501
Ignus Astrum
The Veyr Collective
2
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Posted - 2011.10.29 08:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
intresting new stuff indeed
the tornado layout seems to be right up my ally
but then so does the naga
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DarkAegix
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
172
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Posted - 2011.10.29 08:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
A use for a Gallente ship!?
THIS WON'T STAND! |
Ravans
Grim Determination
Nulli Secunda
0
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Posted - 2011.10.29 09:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP has said the Talos will be a baby vindicator. go figure ;) |
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Onictus
Legendary Knights
Vorpal's Edge
3
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Posted - 2011.10.29 10:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ravans wrote:CCP has said the Talos will be a baby vindicator. go figure ;)
Yeah minus 200,000 eHP or so.
Oh well, going to have to lock it up and hope you get lucky. |
Gabriel Karade
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
1
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Posted - 2011.10.29 10:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Gee, how will we cope? I mean, it's not as though we've had 90% webs everywhere in the past...
War-Machine |
Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
232
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Posted - 2011.10.29 10:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
My God it is like having a ship with 2 Webs fit in the mids...
But there is only one Web fitted. |
Onictus
Legendary Knights
Vorpal's Edge
3
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Posted - 2011.10.29 10:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:My God it is like having a ship with 2 Webs fit in the mids...
But there is only one Web fitted.
An blasters that go further than 10km  |
Aamrr
HnL Enterprise
123
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Posted - 2011.10.29 10:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:My God it is like having a ship with 2 Webs fit in the mids...
But there is only one Web fitted.
Actually, a pair of 60% webs will only reduce you to about 19.1% of your original speed. You'll be going about twice as fast as what a Talos's web will allow. |
Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
233
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Posted - 2011.10.29 10:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:
Actually, a pair of 60% webs will only reduce you to about 19.1% of your original speed. You'll be going about twice as fast as what a Talos's web will allow.
I know like who totally can't make it 15km back to the gate with 80% Webs, Scrammed in a Gatecamp.
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King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
26
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Posted - 2011.10.29 11:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
It's hard to say how this will play out. You do have to consider the tank (or lack there of) on the talos. I've used ashimmu's as dedicated tackle on gates and it absolutely shuts targets down, they never get away like that. But the ashimmu has a pretty stiff tank, especially for a cruiser hull. You can do basically the same thing with the long range scrams of an arazu/lachesis + a normal web. Both ships maybe solidly in the 150-200M isk range but the truth is, that's pocket change by todays standards. And yet most people still don't camp with those.
The reason is simple, it requires a well organized camp as those are specialized ships for tackling. Buying one of those ships is investing an entire hull into just being the dedicated tackler for a gate camp. Most camps are merely a few bored players in whatever they have available at that particular instant. So the real question is, will the talos be popular overall. If so (and assuming it can take a few punches), it will be a common gatecamp ship and if not, then it won't. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
65
|
Posted - 2011.10.29 11:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:Much has been made about the Tornado and its potential for suicide ganking, but I think the forums have so far missed a bigger issue in the tier-3 battlecruiser designs.
The Talos offers a 90% web on a dirt cheap hull. Every gate camp will now have one.
One of the common strategies for a gatecamp is burning back to gate and going back the way you came. With an overheated MWD and a bit of momentum, you can often manage to make it back in a decently agile hull. With 90% webs on the field, this changes.
Previously, 90% webs were reserved for nine ships. All of them cost at least 100 million isk and none were insurable in the slightest. The cheapest two were frigates, and therefore difficult to keep alive under lowsec sentry fire. A well-equipped gatecamp might well be expected to have one, but they were the exception rather than the rule.
Is this a good change for the gatecamping ecosystem? I don't know. But it's certainly a significant change from a universe where 90% webs were the exclusive purview of T2 and faction hulls.
I don't see you whiners about the Talos come up and say it's silly the shortest range weapons system is screwed with overpowered scorch pulses shooting nuclear dmg at 65km +
I don't see you whiners bothered because you have overall the best line up ships in eve
I don't see you whiners, at least once, admit gallente ships/guns are completely screwed
Now the Talos, if, he gets some web bonus are making you whine because you have to use tactics and brains.
Wow, isn't this cute...
Now let me get this straight: I for once will maybe start flying Gallente since I'm flying now Minmatar because I don't have the choice if I want to fleet up.
Alpha? -Amarr Minmatar
Skirmish? -Amarr Minmatar
Med engagements? : Minmatar Amarr Drakes
Undock games? -wtfpown pilgrims curses rapiers munnins zealots vagas cynabals dramiels DD's and I'll stop here
Logistics? - Scimitars Guardians, sometimes (really rare) Basilisk
So gallente gets one ship, with one bonus needed if you don't want blasters to get your pulse optimal and autos tracking, and you find ways to whine... |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
65
|
Posted - 2011.10.29 11:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Ravans wrote:CCP has said the Talos will be a baby vindicator. go figure ;) Yeah minus 200,000 eHP or so. Oh well, going to have to lock it up and hope you get lucky.
My slaved Vindi no boosters or other armor implants, no fleet or double titan bonus, has "just" 465K ehp.
[make whiners rage:ON]
If the Talos could gets 200 I'd happy 
[make whiners rage: OFF] |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
102
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Posted - 2011.10.29 11:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:Aamrr wrote:Much has been made about the Tornado and its potential for suicide ganking, but I think the forums have so far missed a bigger issue in the tier-3 battlecruiser designs.
The Talos offers a 90% web on a dirt cheap hull. Every gate camp will now have one.
One of the common strategies for a gatecamp is burning back to gate and going back the way you came. With an overheated MWD and a bit of momentum, you can often manage to make it back in a decently agile hull. With 90% webs on the field, this changes.
Previously, 90% webs were reserved for nine ships. All of them cost at least 100 million isk and none were insurable in the slightest. The cheapest two were frigates, and therefore difficult to keep alive under lowsec sentry fire. A well-equipped gatecamp might well be expected to have one, but they were the exception rather than the rule.
Is this a good change for the gatecamping ecosystem? I don't know. But it's certainly a significant change from a universe where 90% webs were the exclusive purview of T2 and faction hulls. I don't see you whiners about the Talos come up and say it's silly the shortest range weapons system is screwed with overpowered scorch pulses shooting nuclear dmg at 65km + I don't see you whiners bothered because you have overall the best line up ships in eve I don't see you whiners, at least once, admit gallente ships/guns are completely screwed Now the Talos, if, he gets some web bonus are making you whine because you have to use tactics and brains. Wow, isn't this cute... Now let me get this straight: I for once will maybe start flying Gallente since I'm flying now Minmatar because I don't have the choice if I want to fleet up. Alpha? -Amarr Minmatar Skirmish? -Amarr Minmatar Med engagements? : Minmatar Amarr Drakes Undock games? -wtfpown pilgrims curses rapiers munnins zealots vagas cynabals dramiels DD's and I'll stop here Logistics? - Scimitars Guardians, sometimes (really rare) Basilisk So gallente gets one ship, with one bonus needed if you don't want blasters to get your pulse optimal and autos tracking, and you find ways to whine...
in all honesty, the web str bonus is interesting, and I can't think of another 2nd bonus to the talos, besides speed or agility one.
admittedly however, like the proposed falloff bonus on the tornado, it does pigeonhole the ships into a specific role, something that is usually relegated to the T2 (the "specialist" class) ships. T1 ships are, usually, supposed to be flexible, capable of achieving more than one role.
THEN AGAIN, the stats aren't final, and in all honesty I'm having quite some laughs at people screaming "MURDER DEATH KILL!" after looking at the typeID crystal ball.
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote]
ain't that right |
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Songbird
35
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Posted - 2011.10.29 12:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
from the data mine I see 2272 base armor hp + 5 low slots(4md, 8 high). Remember - the name BC refers to 2 types of cruisers - cruisers with armor of BS OR cruisers with guns of BS.
2272 base armor is a tiny bit less than that of the navy vexor and 1 slot less. So go forth my children and fit a navy vexor with 5 low slots only and thou shalt have the possible talos armor . |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
67
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Posted - 2011.10.29 12:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
Songbird wrote:from the data mine I see 2272 base armor hp + 5 low slots(4md, 8 high). Remember - the name BC refers to 2 types of cruisers - cruisers with armor of BS OR cruisers with guns of BS.
2272 base armor is a tiny bit less than that of the navy vexor and 1 slot less. So go forth my children and fit a navy vexor with 5 low slots only and thou shalt have the possible talos armor .
It's a gank ship, you want to boost it's dps not his tank so if it gets 30K ehp is fine
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Songbird
35
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Posted - 2011.10.29 12:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
thought the previous posts said it was a tackling ship due to it's web bonus :).
If you ask me I'll do high speed shield fits and lows filled with 3 or 4 damage mods but I am just a speed freak, plus fleets I run with usually has scimitars as logis, so I tend to mold everything into that shape. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
69
|
Posted - 2011.10.29 12:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Songbird wrote:thought the previous posts said it was a tackling ship due to it's web bonus :).
If you ask me I'll do high speed shield fits and lows filled with 3 or 4 damage mods but I am just a speed freak, plus fleets I run with usually has scimitars as logis, so I tend to mold everything into that shape.
Yes I understand what you mean, I just figured once I've shield fitted my lachesis to over 50K ehp with no fleet or whatever bonus while with armor was just a paper thin brick, also with many other armor ships it's same fight (hi mega/domi/hype shield)
Also: shield logistics are way too good |
Calapine
Xeno Tech Corp
Flatline.
9
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Posted - 2011.10.29 13:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:[quote=Songbird]thought the previous posts said it was a tackling ship due to it's web bonus :).
Ohh...Talos the Tackle-BC with lows full of nanos and an over-sized 100mn MWD! I am loving it! 
[serious post starts here]
To the OP: It's not like we don't already have (remote) sensor boosted Rapiers/Huginns with 52km overheated dual-webs in game. If someone is really determined to shut down a gate and willing to put the resources into it they will succeed, with or without Talos.
Cala |
Cunane Jeran
19
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Posted - 2011.10.29 13:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
Songbird wrote:thought the previous posts said it was a tackling ship due to it's web bonus :).
If you ask me I'll do high speed shield fits and lows filled with 3 or 4 damage mods but I am just a speed freak, plus fleets I run with usually has scimitars as logis, so I tend to mold everything into that shape.
4 mid slots though, after prop, web and scam, I'd be tempted to stick a cap injector on it and say feck it to the tank. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
17
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Posted - 2011.10.29 14:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP is just clueless at what they are doing. It was clearly not enough to see all those drakes and canes around, now we're getting a new breed of the same OP dirt-cheap crap everyone will jump onto.
Yeah, let's remove even those remains of diversity we still have. Let it be BC Online.
2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is"
2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?"
Nice progress, guys. |
Gazmin VanBurin
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.29 15:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
I guess you guys never ran into a 2-3 webbing raiper before. The web bomus isent that game breaking, sure you can camp with less people now, but wow smaller fleet warfair wouldn't be a good thing would it? [sarcasim] |
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
5
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Posted - 2011.10.29 15:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
If I was a Talos pilot sitting on a gate be sure I would have 2 webs fitted, jus sayin
Oderint Dum Metuant |
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2011.10.29 15:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
Oh god yet more ******* tears for something that isnt even out yet
Thanks to your tears all of these new bcs will be nerfed to worthlessness before they even hit tranq
You tearbabys are everything that is wrong with eve these days
Your inability to adapt or die is pathetic |
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