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Jam Kirk
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 08:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
The new notes regarding the changes to the Marauder classes are interesting. For the last year I have been grinding missions while skilling up. What I have found is that the loot seems to go down in value, the chances of getting faction drops in high sec is almost at 0. There are no benifits to grinding standings, and the epic arcs are a far cry from epic and haven't been touched since about 06. While I find the new ideas are grand, is there any way that the mission runners of EVE can get some luv? Someone poorly suggested it's a '"Risk = Reward " concept. That ; all high sec should amount to less income based on the risk. If that's the philosophy...then why is it less risky to run an incursion than to solo a Lvl 4. Keep in mind the incursion pays a great deal more. If we are being forced into rolls that we don't wish to play; why not just mine , and not worry about skilling up. Just mine and that's all there is to it. If you want to PVP go to null or low. Don't have the preditors up in high to eat shiney ships. Forgive me if I'm out of line, but if this is a sandbox. Why is there so much effort on behalf of CCP nerfing missions and mission content to force people into other areas? |

William Walker
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
339
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 08:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nerf incursions?
Jam Kirk wrote:Don't have the preditors up in high to eat shiney ships.
Jam Kirk wrote:Forgive me if I'm out of line, but if this is a sandbox. It is a sandbox. Shiny ships will always be eaten. pâ+(*GîÆGêçGîÆ*)n+ë pü+(pé£GêçpÇü-¦)pü+ (GùòGÇ+GùòG£+) |

Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3776
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 08:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Because it's a sandbox.
It's not about "play however you want, solo". It's about "play however you want, but with everybody else".
Missions don't really support that, unless you get scanned down and ninja salvaged or blown up.
But... tbh... i have started to understand that missions could use some love too. No matter what, it's a part of the game
Nonetheless... please stop using the sandbox argument. It doesn't work that way. Sandboxes don't center around the needs of individuals, they work because of the interaction between players and it doesn't matter if you want this interaction to happen or not. |

Riot Girl
Krypteia Operations
1616
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 08:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
My idea is to remove level 4s from low sec and buff low sec missions to give better rewards as follows;
Low sec level 1 = High sec level 2 Low sec level 2 = High sec level 3 Low sec level 3 = High sec level 4
This will give new players a choice. They can either stay in high sec and skill up a badly trained BS to run level 4s, or they can take their BC into low sec and get the same reward running level 3s. They will be able to cover the cost of a lost ship with just a few missions so the risk is more appealing and they will get into fights and find the game a lot more enjoyable, plus it will bring more targets into lowsec for gankers so there will be more enjoyable gameplay for all.
Oh god. |

Jam Kirk
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 08:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Firstly : Online Sandbox=An open world is a type of video game level design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives. Video games that include such level design often are referred to as "free roam" games.
I do howerver like the idea of making low sec missions work better. Maybe better drops also? Some attention needs to be on bringing the mission runner back into the game though in any case. |

Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
248
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 08:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:My idea is to remove level 4s from low sec and buff low sec missions to give better rewards as follows;
Low sec level 1 = High sec level 2 Low sec level 2 = High sec level 3 Low sec level 3 = High sec level 4
This will give new players a choice. They can either stay in high sec and skill up a badly trained BS to run level 4s, or they can take their BC into low sec and get the same reward running level 3s. They will be able to cover the cost of a lost ship with just a few missions so the risk is more appealing and they will get into fights and find the game a lot more enjoyable, plus it will bring more targets into lowsec for gankers so there will be more enjoyable gameplay for all.
Except the grind time for most level 3 and 4 missions is so long that doing them in lowsec would be very unappealing to most mission runners especially sitting in lowsec in a PvE optimised ship.
What we need for mission runners in lowsec is missions that are better tailored to lowsec so that players will fly them in PvP ships and then they won't feel as much of a need to dock up as soon as another pilot enters the system.
Some of the FW missions are already like that but overall they're few and far between. |

Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3778
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 08:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jam Kirk wrote:Firstly : Online Sandbox=An open world is a type of video game level design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives. Video games that include such level design often are referred to as "free roam" games.
I do howerver like the idea of making low sec missions work better. Maybe better drops also? Some attention needs to be on bringing the mission runner back into the game though in any case. You forgot the most important words: "as long as other players let you" |

Lipbite
Express Hauler
773
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 08:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jam Kirk wrote:Why is there so much effort on behalf of CCP nerfing missions and mission content to force people into other areas?
It's sabotage, they want Star Citizen to succeed. |

Jam Kirk
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 08:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think the matter of low sec missioning is a little off topic on the basis of this thread. I was wondering more about the massive amount of time and developement spent grinding for standings and running missions. There is a HUGE decrease in worth while results for the effort. That and no new anything on the mission front since it's primary inception!
|

Riot Girl
Krypteia Operations
1616
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 08:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:Except the grind time for most level 3 and 4 missions is so long that doing them in lowsec would be very unappealing to most mission runners especially sitting in lowsec in a PvE optimised ship.
What we need for mission runners in lowsec is missions that are better tailored to lowsec so that players will fly them in PvP ships and then they won't feel as much of a need to dock up as soon as another pilot enters the system.
Some of the FW missions are already like that but overall they're few and far between.
I guess that's where mission runners will have to use their brains to come up with a fit and a playstyle that suits their needs. Oh god. |

Jam Kirk
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 08:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Jam Kirk wrote:Firstly : Online Sandbox=An open world is a type of video game level design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives. Video games that include such level design often are referred to as "free roam" games.
I do howerver like the idea of making low sec missions work better. Maybe better drops also? Some attention needs to be on bringing the mission runner back into the game though in any case. You forgot the most important words: "as long as other players let you"
I just looked up the definition. I didn't bend it to fit an agenda |

Jam Kirk
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 09:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jam Kirk wrote:I think the matter of low sec missioning is a little off topic on the basis of this thread. I was wondering more about the massive amount of time and developement spent grinding for standings and running missions. There is a HUGE decrease in worth while results for the effort. That and no new anything on the mission front since it's primary inception!
They did change the AI enough so that low skilled players loose more drones and lowby ships. So the end result was...More expence, less attractive to new players, oh yeah; less rewards. |

Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3779
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 09:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:My idea is to remove level 4s from low sec and buff low sec missions to give better rewards as follows;
Low sec level 1 = High sec level 2 Low sec level 2 = High sec level 3 Low sec level 3 = High sec level 4
This will give new players a choice. They can either stay in high sec and skill up a badly trained BS to run level 4s, or they can take their BC into low sec and get the same reward running level 3s. They will be able to cover the cost of a lost ship with just a few missions so the risk is more appealing and they will get into fights and find the game a lot more enjoyable, plus it will bring more targets into lowsec for gankers so there will be more enjoyable gameplay for all.
No. CCP has proven time and again that throwing more money at people doesn't help. You have the wrong perspective.
The issue is the players. A big part of the problem are the griefers (to quote Tippia) who sit in rookiechats and -systems telling everybody that they shoudln't ever go to low, because it's a deathtrap.
They tell them to run missions or mine for isk, as if playing solo right from the start was a good idea.
Players' behaviour can be be steered best right from the beginning, and these people do exactly that, with bad consequences for the whole population.
|

Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3779
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 09:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jam Kirk wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Jam Kirk wrote:Firstly : Online Sandbox=An open world is a type of video game level design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives. Video games that include such level design often are referred to as "free roam" games.
I do howerver like the idea of making low sec missions work better. Maybe better drops also? Some attention needs to be on bringing the mission runner back into the game though in any case. You forgot the most important words: "as long as other players let you" I just looked up the definition. I didn't bend it to fit an agenda A carebear must have written that definition... Or the writer mistakes single player open world games with true sandboxes. |

Jam Kirk
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 09:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Riot Girl wrote:My idea is to remove level 4s from low sec and buff low sec missions to give better rewards as follows;
Low sec level 1 = High sec level 2 Low sec level 2 = High sec level 3 Low sec level 3 = High sec level 4
This will give new players a choice. They can either stay in high sec and skill up a badly trained BS to run level 4s, or they can take their BC into low sec and get the same reward running level 3s. They will be able to cover the cost of a lost ship with just a few missions so the risk is more appealing and they will get into fights and find the game a lot more enjoyable, plus it will bring more targets into lowsec for gankers so there will be more enjoyable gameplay for all.
No. CCP has proven time and again that throwing more money at people doesn't help. You have the wrong perspective. The issue is the players. A big part of the problem are the griefers (to quote Tippia) who sit in rookiechats and -systems telling everybody that they shoudln't ever go to low, because it's a deathtrap. They tell them to run missions or mine for isk, as if playing solo right from the start was a good idea. Players' behaviour can be be steered best right from the beginning, and these people do exactly that, with bad consequences for the whole population. As a newer player, what exactly do you think a 2011 toon can do to a maxed skill PVP 2006 player? |

Czeris
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
63
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 09:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jam Kirk please contact me as I think you would be a perfect fit for running lucrative missions in Goonswarm space. |

Riot Girl
Krypteia Operations
1616
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 09:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
Yeah, I've seen those people in the rookie channel and NPC corp chats. Still, I think this kind of reward would be too great for many mission runners to ignore. Oh god. |

Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3780
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 09:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jam Kirk wrote:Jam Kirk wrote:I think the matter of low sec missioning is a little off topic on the basis of this thread. I was wondering more about the massive amount of time and developement spent grinding for standings and running missions. There is a HUGE decrease in worth while results for the effort. That and no new anything on the mission front since it's primary inception!
They did change the AI enough so that low skilled players loose more drones and lowby ships. So the end result was...More expence, less attractive to new players, oh yeah; less rewards. Maybe there's a point behind that. Have less new people run stupid missions but instead have them seek player interaction to make money, aka actually playing the game.
See it from a new guys perspective. The first things many do is playing alone! Alone! That's ridiculous! |

Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3781
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 09:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Yeah, I've seen those people in the rookie channel and NPC corp chats. Still, I think this kind of reward would be too great for many mission runners to ignore. They won't care. Never have so far. Throwing more money at it changes nothing, except maybe that more lowsec people will run missions.
This topic got beaten to death and beyond already, Riot. |

Jam Kirk
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 09:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Jam Kirk wrote:Jam Kirk wrote:I think the matter of low sec missioning is a little off topic on the basis of this thread. I was wondering more about the massive amount of time and developement spent grinding for standings and running missions. There is a HUGE decrease in worth while results for the effort. That and no new anything on the mission front since it's primary inception!
They did change the AI enough so that low skilled players loose more drones and lowby ships. So the end result was...More expence, less attractive to new players, oh yeah; less rewards. Maybe there's a point behind that. Have less new people run stupid missions but instead have them seek player interaction to make money, aka actually playing the game. See it from a new guys perspective. The first things many do is playing alone! Alone! That's ridiculous! Now you are just trying to make your point. Point made! Without bashing on you for how you want to play the game, I'll refrain. If you'd like to comment more and put people down for the playstyle they want.... Go and start your own thread please and leave this one.
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Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3781
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 09:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
*lol* Most new people have no clue about how they want to play the game. Most get influenced in doing what they are told to do.
Edit: Getting pushed into playing solo in Eve IS ridiculous. If they WANT to play alone then they can do so, but then they'll have a bad awakening once others play the game the way it works. Together or against each other.
Also, regarding the crap above...
All skills cap at V. There is no "max skilled player" in Eve. If a noob bu y s a toon from 2003 he will still lose against a week old noob who knows what he's doing. |

Jam Kirk
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 09:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:*lol* Most new people have no clue about how they want to play the game. Most get influenced in doing what they are told to do.
Edit: Getting pushed into playing solo in Eve IS ridiculous. If they WANT to play alone then they can do so, but then they'll have a bad awakening once others play the game the way it works. Together or against each other.
Also, regarding the crap above...
All skills cap at V. There is no "max skilled player" in Eve. If a noob bu y s a toon from 2003 he will still lose against a week old noob who knows what he's doing. Rant much? Anyway... Not very on topic. |

Riot Girl
Krypteia Operations
1616
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 09:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Back on topic, revitalising missions is a waste of time. Oh god. |

Jam Kirk
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 09:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Back on topic, revitalising missions is a waste of time.
I thought your ideas had some merit. Why now do you feel that revitalizing missions is a waste of effort? The standings and such should count towards something... shouldn't they? LP is nice, but there is alot more they can do to flesh out the missioning role for players. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16236
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 09:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
OoookGǪ top tip: if you want to make an impression and have your ideas taken seriously, start by having an above-zero accuracy in your claims.
GÇó Loot goes up and down in value as the market dictates. If loot value has gone down, it's because more people are running missions, which indicates that missions are better than ever. GÇó The chances of getting faction drops is the same in highsec as everywhere else. GÇó There are tons of benefits for grinding standings. GÇó The epic arcs have been touched since 06 due to the simple fact that that they were released in '09GǪ and they've been updated numerous times since then. GÇó Risk-reward is not a poor concept. It's in fact a very good concept for balancing income. That's why incursions are a lot riskier than L4s (as shown by he outright slaughter of unaware mission-runners who tried them in the early days). GÇó If you want to PvP, go to where the targets are GÇö highsec is just as much a PvP arena as all other parts of space. GÇó The reason there are predators in highsec is because that's where the shiny ships are.
Yes, this game is a sandbox, but more than that, it's a multiplayer sandbox. Multiplayer sandbox does not mean that you can do what you want GÇö it means everyone can do what they want, which includes them doing things (to you) that you don't want them to do. From a design standpoint, it also means that static content such as missions is pretty unimportant and that what really matters is to provide tools for the players to create their own content.
The reason very little effort goes into missions is because it's not really a worth-while investments. PvE content almost never is, because it's a consumable kind of content. Incursions are a perfect example of this: everyone flocked to them early on, but once they had tried them and figured them out GÇö once the content had been consumed GÇö the drop-off rate was enormous. Like all such content, it created a very brief but ultimately totally ineffective bump in interest and then just made more people leave. On top of this, creating this kind of one-shot content costs a lot, which means it's a highly questionable use of developer time. They simply do not offer any of the tools that constitute proper content for a sandbox-style game.
Instead, missions in EVE serve pretty much only one purpose: to inject ISK into the economy. Until CCP sees a good reason to adjust how much ISK is being injected, don't count on missions changing much.
All that said, what role do you feel you're being forced into? In what way have CCP nerfed missions and mission content? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3782
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 09:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jam Kirk wrote:Solstice Project wrote:*lol* Most new people have no clue about how they want to play the game. Most get influenced in doing what they are told to do.
Edit: Getting pushed into playing solo in Eve IS ridiculous. If they WANT to play alone then they can do so, but then they'll have a bad awakening once others play the game the way it works. Together or against each other.
Also, regarding the crap above...
All skills cap at V. There is no "max skilled player" in Eve. If a noob bu y s a toon from 2003 he will still lose against a week old noob who knows what he's doing. Rant much? Anyway... Not very on topic. I was adressing your words, as pointless as it is.
Anyhow... yes. Back on topic. Revitalizing missions?
Yes. Make them closer to actual ship combat with actual risk of losing ships. Missions are too much of an ISK farm and need revitalization by putting them more in line with the actual game.
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Riot Girl
Krypteia Operations
1619
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 09:56:00 -
[27] - Quote
Well the idea I proposed wasn't so much a revitalisation, but more of a modification to the current system which probably wouldn't require an immense amount of effort to implement and would encourage more player interaction. I feel any effort required to revitalise missions for the solo player could be better spent on projects which improve the overall quality of the gameplay experience.
If missions were modified in a way that they could incorporate PvP and player interaction, that would be a worthwhile change but I feel it would also be a very time consuming process and probably very difficult to implement successfully. Oh god. |

Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3784
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 10:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:If missions were modified in a way that they could incorporate PvP and player interaction, that would be a worthwhile change but I feel it would also be a very time consuming process and probably very difficult to implement successfully. Imagine the tearsof all those who only use it to farm ISK. I like it.
Proper players know to defend themselves anyway.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12751
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 10:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
A sandbox means that you're free to try and play as you want, it also means that other players are free to try and stop you from doing so, because that's the way they want to play.
Jam Kirk wrote: As a newer player, what exactly do you think a 2011 toon can do to a maxed skill PVP 2006 player?
Plenty, there's a skill cap on each ship and weapon class, a maxxed 2006 PvP pilot in a cruiser or BC for example is probably using 10% of his available skillpoints, because the rest are irrelevant to the ship. Where he does have an advantage is his experience and knowledge of game mechanics, and exactly what the ship is and is not capable of doing.
SP is not that important, experience and knowledge are, it's the same for the ships, what you do with them is more important than the ships themselves.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |

Jam Kirk
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 10:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Jam Kirk wrote:Solstice Project wrote:*lol* Most new people have no clue about how they want to play the game. Most get influenced in doing what they are told to do.
Edit: Getting pushed into playing solo in Eve IS ridiculous. If they WANT to play alone then they can do so, but then they'll have a bad awakening once others play the game the way it works. Together or against each other.
Also, regarding the crap above...
All skills cap at V. There is no "max skilled player" in Eve. If a noob bu y s a toon from 2003 he will still lose against a week old noob who knows what he's doing. Rant much? Anyway... Not very on topic. I was adressing your words, as pointless as it is. Anyhow... yes. Back on topic. Revitalizing missions? Yes. Make them closer to actual ship combat with actual risk of losing ships. Missions are too much of an ISK farm and need revitalization by putting them more in line with the actual game. Your a hero kiddo. LOL.... Tippia thank you for putting all the info together in a way that brings fact to light. It just seems as though salvage, and mission worthy loot have deminished in the last year. Moreover being new(ish) I thought that the long battle in standings would prove to be more fruitful than it actually is. Grant it I didn't do my homework before starting the thread, but I thought the matter would be best sorted in here.
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