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Shittake
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Posted - 2006.01.09 11:30:00 -
[31]
If I remember correctly, I believe that all existing NPC stations in 0.0 will become conquerable away from the NPC sovereigns with the Kali patch comming up. This is a good idea, albeit I am sure it will be a pain in the arse to take and maintain them.
With the absence of Concord, then you should have the opportunity to battle the faction who holds the station, either NPC or player controlled, and take it over. This would shrink the ammount of space claimed by 0.0 alliances as they cannot possibly maintain sovereignty for 3-5 regions. They would need to protect smaller areas which would eventually open up 0.0 for more folks.
Holding space should be tough
 Originally by: Metal Dude
imo all stations should be NPC stations. If you want your own station, then build an outpost.
That's because The Five like to pester alliances like the PA who cannot field an adequate defense force during certain timezones, but like the NPC stations to hide in when a defense force does arrive.
NPC stations in 0.0 are perfect places for "roving gang squad types" to hide in, and because the market is still not yet standings-based, nubtards in the same alliance they are pestering sell them supplies on the open market.
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Oosel
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Posted - 2006.01.09 11:36:00 -
[32]
got to agree with everything rod said on this occasion
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2006.01.09 11:46:00 -
[33]
Basically like Rod says, npc provide the stepping stones to full 0.0 living, with stations moved just beyond the borders of empire and deep 0.0 (where the good stuff is) requiring corps to actually colonise and establish POS to take advantage.
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danneh
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Posted - 2006.01.09 12:04:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Metal Dude
imo all stations should be NPC stations. If you want your own station, then build an outpost.
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.01.09 12:08:00 -
[35]
I have to agree with Rod. The gateway regions are the regions that should have NPC stations, while the deeper regions shouldn't. It's the wild west in those systems (NPC station systems), any fool goes there to do the undock/dock dance in order to try and catch someone unaware.
I also think that the NPCs should DOS people with too much negative standing towards them. It's harsh, but...
Nyx is Erebos' wife. Together they have two children, Thanatos and Charon. Why is Charon Caldari?! |
ErrorS
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Posted - 2006.01.09 12:19:00 -
[36]
yeah, outskirts of space should be empty. It just makes sense..
on the other hand, I think NPC stations in 0.0 should be conquerable, hell, I think they all should be. CCP would need to do a lot of work to make sure things are balanced though.
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
Hans Roaming
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Posted - 2006.01.09 13:03:00 -
[37]
Well it's my opinion that all 0.0 should be able to be taken over, at the moment though unless there is faction warfare then I don't see how you could take the sansha staions over for example. It does mean that you have to be willing to put in the resources and commitment to hold a region of space, POS and industry infrastructure to hold them and thus should lead to higher densities of population's in 0.0 space as you won't be able to have 200 people be able to control vast tracts of space.
Part of the appeal of Eve is the ability to have a sandbox and the ability to creat a nation is very appealing to some. The ability to take and hold resources such as stations makes that more real.
El Presedente
Be all you can be, join the Huzzah Armed Forces today! |
Macro Slasher
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Posted - 2006.01.09 13:04:00 -
[38]
It's nice, hiding into one and having someone camp outside that station for you for a week 
Perhaps they shouldn't be everywhere.. But it's nice to have a few.
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Adrian Keifore
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Posted - 2006.01.09 13:08:00 -
[39]
Personally I think that there should definivitly be stations in 0.0 space, more stations probably wouldn't be bad either.
However besides some exceptions I don't think these should be owned by the main races, I think they should be owned by factions like True Sansha and the other. Say ten adjesent systems deep in 0.0 space where True Sansha is concentraiting their power, have placed the remaining of their former country.
Would only make sense that the rat corporations own stations somewhere as they aren't likely to just be able to fly into a, for example, Amarr station and build their ships there...
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2006.01.09 13:17:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Tenacha Khan
I think the conquerables should be replaced with npc stations to help those small corps which want to set themselves up in 0.0
Removing the npc platform would make it very difficult for new blood to be injected into 0.0
This is very naive, stations in 0.0 make it more dangerous for a non alliance player as the station is a perfect base of operation for the alliance to patrol out of.
The best place for a small new corp to start out in 0.0 is in a not too profitable system 10+ jumps from an NPC station (conq or not), in reality the further the better.
The reason for this is that while there are players who would go those 10+ jumps to investigate 3 or 4 ships in local the majority would put it off as long as possible.
Also alliance people are like everyone else lazy, if they can make X isk in a system with a station why go 10+ jumps to make the same X amout of isk there?
Hunting rats, mining or whatever 10+ jumps away will meen you have to haul the stuff and that is simply anoying.
Better then to remove all the conq stations and force alliances to build POS if they want to be able to do the same, the POS represents a large investment that must be protected, somthing that will draw players away from hunting and in several cases 0.0 space will simply be abandoned as the lack of a refining station will simply not make the area profitable enough for the alliance leaving it open for a small group of individuals to go out there and have some fun and make some isk.
As is the conq stations make it easy for alliances to maintain a large and safe precence in the far away areas.
Naturally we can debate this but as I was out there back before conq stations and saw what they did to 0.0 space I think I have a fair Idea how it affected me as an non alliance player.
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Rells
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Posted - 2006.01.09 13:21:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Dao 2
Well a lot of ppl have talked about it ;p but would u really vote for it?
Would u rather
a) Leave the npc stations as they are
b) have all npc stations (wtf o_0)
c) Take away all npc stations in .0 and make them just like other conq station regions
and say why if u feel like it ;p
COndense them into smaller areas. Instead of having guristas spread over three regions give them stations all in the same couple of jumps from there. All the rest should be conquerable.
◄ I must not fear.
◄ Fear is the mind-killer.
◄ Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.
◄ -- Paul Atreides
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Intak Atak
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Posted - 2006.01.09 13:24:00 -
[42]
NPC stations are rubbish. They serve no purpose other than having the rich become richer.
No npc stations in Kali? Great, everyone and their kid sister must pay a bilion isk docking fee.
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Plutoinum
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Posted - 2006.01.09 13:30:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 09/01/2006 13:31:00
It's good like it is at least in the southeast.
NPC station in Curse and GW for people who want to start in 0.0 e.g. smaller groups, independent corps, new alliances or alliances that prepaire to venture deeper into the neighboring 0.0 regions.
Then there is plenty of 0.0 space behind these regions with conquerable stations like Wicked Creek, Detorid, Cache, Immensea etc., big areas where most systems have low population or no activity at all. So go there, conquer stations or build outposts and make a living, if you don't like areas with npc stations.
Don't think that it would make it easier for people to get into 0.0, if every station behind the chokepoints and corridors would be conquerable. Imho the 0.0 population would go down.
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Rells
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Posted - 2006.01.09 13:30:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Tenacha Khan
I think the conquerables should be replaced with npc stations to help those small corps which want to set themselves up in 0.0
Removing the npc platform would make it very difficult for new blood to be injected into 0.0
 This is crazy. We dont want to turn 0.0 into empire space. 0.0 is there for players to conquer. I am sorry you want that rich ore and those great rats in complete safety but you will learn to live with it.
Originally by: Fester Addams
This is very naive, stations in 0.0 make it more dangerous for a non alliance player as the station is a perfect base of operation for the alliance to patrol out of.PSYCHO!
NPC stations are a lousy base of operations because you cant sell anything there or you will be equipping enemies as well as friendlies. Since anyone can dock, that means you will always have hostiles in the system that you cant do anything about and will have to camp them 24/7. NPC stations are a pain in the keester.
Originally by: Fester Addams
The best place for a small new corp to start out in 0.0 is in a not too profitable system 10+ jumps from an NPC station (conq or not), in reality the further the better.
The reason for this is that while there are players who would go those 10+ jumps to investigate 3 or 4 ships in local the majority would put it off as long as possible.
The best thing a small corp can do is to join an alliance. 0.0 is not for the meek and shouldnt be made as such. If you are a small corp on your own, it is unlikely you could sustain the losses of 0.0 work. Not to mention the fact that you will be continually spanked by alliance forces at 0.0 entry.
Originally by: Fester Addams
Also alliance people are like everyone else lazy, if they can make X isk in a system with a station why go 10+ jumps to make the same X amout of isk there?
Hunting rats, mining or whatever 10+ jumps away will meen you have to haul the stuff and that is simply anoying.
Thats not lazy, that is economical.
Originally by: Fester Addams
Better then to remove all the conq stations and force alliances to build POS if they want to be able to do the same, the POS represents a large investment that must be protected, somthing that will draw players away from hunting and in several cases 0.0 space will simply be abandoned as the lack of a refining station will simply not make the area profitable enough for the alliance leaving it open for a small group of individuals to go out there and have some fun and make some isk.
This is just nuts. COnquerable stations have to be defended as well and so do outposts. I cant think of the damage it would cause internally if we lost one of our major conquerable stations. NPC stations are a pain in the butt but conquerable stations allow a group to become a kingdom with an economy, trade agreements and so on.
Originally by: Fester Addams
As is the conq stations make it easy for alliances to maintain a large and safe precence in the far away areas.
Naturally we can debate this but as I was out there back before conq stations and saw what they did to 0.0 space I think I have a fair Idea how it affected me as an non alliance player.
There are other things that allow alliances to maintain control of larg areas and conquerable stations are not the issue. There are issues of the map and local and so on. There is also the issue that mechanics for real 0.0 kingdoms dont exist now.
◄ I must not fear.
◄ Fear is the mind-killer.
◄ Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.
◄ -- Paul Atreides
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Paigan
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Posted - 2006.01.09 13:48:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Paigan on 09/01/2006 13:48:09
i'd like to have two things:
1) answer A
2) a board with a poll function 
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This game is still in beta stage |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.01.09 13:51:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Metal Dude
imo all stations should be NPC stations. If you want your own station, then build an outpost.
WTB output that doesn't require sov to build
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James Lyrus
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Posted - 2006.01.09 14:08:00 -
[47]
In 0.0 the hardest regions to 'hold' are the ones with NPC stations.
Because they provide a staging point for 'everyone else' to strike.
The problem is, that by removing them, you also prevent 'newcomers' on the scene - those looking to 'break in' to 0.0, rather than being forced to join an established alliance.
However the existance of starbases changed that. You can now set up an operation anywhere you like, and have a staging point.
I think that the problem is more that of general structure - the defender has the harder job, exactly because raiding is relatively easy.
IMO it's ok the way it is. There's perhaps a few too many NPC stations in certain regions, but in general, having the mix is good.
Although I would say that PCS should all become outposts, but that's only a minor distinction.
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Taketa De
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Posted - 2006.01.09 14:16:00 -
[48]
I think any station where no NPC faction holds sovereignty should be concquerable. Who is defending it and keeping if from being conquerd otherwise?
Areas with sovereignty should be the place others have mentioned where people can get their feet wet for 0.0 and be able to live there and have fun there apart from the player alliances.
These are the same as empire space without concord.
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Atraxy
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Posted - 2006.01.09 14:26:00 -
[49]
I think they should lower the costs of setting up an outpost that way more can be set up. Alliances can then start allowing people into their space and using their station facilitys for a fee. Maybe they could do a babylon 5 and all chip in the defence of the region for reduced rates accessing the stations. How is that different than joining the alliances you ask.. well you would retain your own sovirency but get the benafits of 0.0 access.
People who want 0.0 access for themselves ether have to take it for them selves or get friendly with people who are strong enough to take it, at the end of the day a solo player should never be able to use 0.0 like they do in empire as thats the whole point of 0.0
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So'Kar
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Posted - 2006.01.09 14:30:00 -
[50]
For these who whine about npc 0.0, why dont you go to non npc region then?
I have no intrest in pos wars or joining some alliance that maintance poses neither, so give my vote for A.
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JeanLuc Picarde
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Posted - 2006.01.09 14:34:00 -
[51]
have MORE npc 0.0 stations, preferably in deep 0.0
would definately encourage a population move
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2006.01.09 14:52:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
No.
Outposts are not an option to all, nor is keeping ownership of a station after you conquer one.
NPC station function very well for that segment of the population that likes to break themselves into 0.0 life without needing to join the already dominant corporations in a certain area. The little guy so to say.
If you'd remove them, that little guy would have no mroe step in between full fledged empire life, and a life of 0.0 politics involved with getting access to a conquerable station/outpost.
I like that there are steps in between.
What I don't like is how territorial control of some of the richest regions in Eve is hampered by the abundance of NPC stations in them. NPC stations make a region extremely hard to control, to conquer and to completely lose.
That would be fine with me if we would be talking mediocre real estate, interesting for those NPC stations should be designed to help: the little guy.
But the richest regions deep in 0.0 should never have had them. Regions like Venal, Delve and Fountain or even geminate shouldn't have ahd NPC stations. Instead, regions like Syndicate, Pure Blind should have more. And regions like Providence, Tribute, Catch should have been the regions witht he NPC stations from the start.
NPC station regions should be the gateways to real 0.0, not the cores of real 0.0 like they often are now. That role should be played by the most developed player owned regions.
But I don't see CCP changing things anymore really. The only change ever made concerns Delve, and that was logical, if regrettable in some ways.
even though ur BoB u have a very compelling argument ;p and i like ur idea a lot, i think itd also help the trade in those .0 areas cause theyre so close to empire yet far enough away that ppl dont wanna go like 6 jumps to go ;p
id add stain to ur list though:| evn though its close i guess its a damn big and important region ;p
and ill get off my lazy ass and add ur idea as letter d ;p
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2006.01.09 19:28:00 -
[53]
Simple. 0.0 should at gradients in the same manner that Empire does.
0.0 close to empire: Npc stations with decent ore, rats, and pirate agents. A way to bribe pirate factions and force people out.
0.0 farther out: Conquerables as they are today. Better ore and rats. Some agents as well.
Deep 0.0: Player built only.
Odds of this happening? Very very low as it would require a map reconstruction. Doesn't stop me from hoping though.
Macgyver can build an airplane out of gum and paper clips, but Chuck Norris can kill him and take it.
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