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Machariel winter balance

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MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 1283	Posted - 2013.09.09 16:46:00 - [1] - Quote So IMO the Mach is the best sub cap ship in game. It has been for a long long time and needs to get its stuff in gear. Below is the changes the ship needs to be in line with all other ships Quote: Machariel GÇóRole Bonus: 25% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire GÇóGalente Battleship Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level (-2.5%) GÇóMinmatar Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level GÇóSlot layout: 8H, 5M, 7L; 7turrets, 0 launchers GÇóFittings: 17000 (-950) MW PWG , 600 CPU GÇóDefense (shields / armor / hull) : 9000(-317) / 9000(-298) / 8000(-260) GÇóMobility (max velocity / mass): 150 m/s(-11) / 980,000,000 (+3,320,000) GÇóDrones (bandwidth / bay): 75(-25) / 100(-25) GÇóTargeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km(-2km) / 140-10 / 7 GÇóSensor strength: 26 LADAR GÇóSignature radius: 360(-+20) There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request
Frostys Virpio Lame Corp Name 668	Posted - 2013.09.09 16:48:00 - [2] - Quote MeBiatch wrote: So IMO the Mach is the best sub cap ship in game. It has been for a long long time and needs to get its stuff in gear. Below is the changes the ship needs to be in line with all other ships Quote: Machariel GÇóRole Bonus: 25% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire GÇóGalente Battleship Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level (-2.5%) GÇóMinmatar Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level GÇóSlot layout: 8H, 5M, 7L; 7turrets, 0 launchers GÇóFittings: 17000 (-950) MW PWG , 600 CPU GÇóDefense (shields / armor / hull) : 9000(-317) / 9000(-298) / 8000(-260) GÇóMobility (max velocity / mass): 150 m/s(-11) / 980,000,000 (+3,320,000) GÇóDrones (bandwidth / bay): 75(-25) / 100(-25) GÇóTargeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km(-2km) / 140-10 / 7 GÇóSensor strength: 26 LADAR GÇóSignature radius: 360(-+20) How dare you put round numbers in a ship stats sheet?
MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 1283	Posted - 2013.09.09 16:58:00 - [3] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: How dare you put round numbers in a ship stats sheet? well they were all rounded down... plus the fall off got a good nerf. so its slower shoots not as far is bigger sig resolution smaller drone bay... overall its a total nerf. but still a great ship. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request
Lilliana Stelles 873	Posted - 2013.09.09 17:31:00 - [4] - Quote I'd be okay with these new stats if it had 8 turrets. Incarna from 2009. 3 Years later and what we have doesn't look half as good as this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41s1Iox18A
Cyrus Sinak Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.09.09 17:32:00 - [5] - Quote Posting in a not so stealth nerf that ship that guy keeps using to kick my ass thread.
MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 1284	Posted - 2013.09.09 17:48:00 - [6] - Quote Lilliana Stelles wrote: I'd be okay with these new stats if it had 8 turrets. i am not sure if the loss of one heavy drone and 12.5% turret range warrents an extra turret slot. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request
MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 1284	Posted - 2013.09.09 17:49:00 - [7] - Quote Cyrus Sinak wrote: Posting in a not so stealth nerf that ship that guy keeps using to kick my ass thread. no not at all. its just that due to the mach being so op as it stands its hard to balance other ships without having to compare to the current mach stats. So lets just get a quick nerf of the mach so we can properlly balance all other ships. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request
Arya Regnar Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 116	Posted - 2013.09.09 18:03:00 - [8] - Quote MeBiatch wrote: Cyrus Sinak wrote: Posting in a not so stealth nerf that ship that guy keeps using to kick my ass thread. no not at all. its just that due to the mach being so op as it stands its hard to balance other ships without having to compare to the current mach stats. So lets just get a quick nerf of the mach so we can properlly balance all other ships. Mach has a price tag, not very many people use it due to that, with those new stats it would be just mehh. EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
SkupojHren Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 16	Posted - 2013.09.09 18:15:00 - [9] - Quote thats not rebalance ideea,thats nerf lool. also,mach is bad in my eyes.if anything it could get the capacitor balanced a little.
Balthazar Lestrane Viziam Amarr Empire 65	Posted - 2013.09.09 18:29:00 - [10] - Quote Quote: thats not rebalance ideea,thats nerf lool. Nerfing is a form of rebalance. Domis just saw a slight nerf to drone tracking to bring it line with ships that also receive the same bonus (7.5%, down from 10%). Now it's consistent. Balanced, if you will. As for the Mach, it does have a hefty price tag. I see people using Rattlesnakes and Bhaalgorns as much as I see Machariels. It isn't the hull that is unbalanced IMO, it's just the nature of projectiles and their high alpha artillery. Furthermore, stop comparing different ship roles. There's always going to be a ship that does something better than another ship can do. HTFU.

Dave Stark 3621	Posted - 2013.09.09 19:37:00 - [11] - Quote probably replace 1 shield extender rig with another ACR rig, and nothing has changed except a slight drop in EHP. 8k ehp loss, meh. it's still better than any of the proposed marauders for incursions.
MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 1284	Posted - 2013.09.09 20:46:00 - [12] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: probably replace 1 shield extender rig with another ACR rig, and nothing has changed except a slight drop in EHP. 8k ehp loss, meh. it's still better than any of the proposed marauders for incursions. so not enough ehp loss? what would you suggest if i have not gone far enough? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request
Dave Stark 3625	Posted - 2013.09.09 21:26:00 - [13] - Quote MeBiatch wrote: Dave Stark wrote: probably replace 1 shield extender rig with another ACR rig, and nothing has changed except a slight drop in EHP. 8k ehp loss, meh. it's still better than any of the proposed marauders for incursions. so not enough ehp loss? what would you suggest if i have not gone far enough? all you did was take some of the fitting off, essentially nothing relevant was changed to address the gap between marauders and pirate battleships in an incursion environment.
Lloyd Roses Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 238	Posted - 2013.09.09 21:33:00 - [14] - Quote Why not reduce it to it's strengths? That would leave mobility, signature and offense - just peel away the rest :> (rest = things like battleshipsized dronebandwidth and base hitpoints, would work like before, just even more 'on-the-edge') Now actively requesting any faction / new faction willing to produce these:-áhttp://eohgames.com/labs/Ships/Vanir%20Federation%20Talos-á
Verity Sovereign Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter 516	Posted - 2013.09.09 21:49:00 - [15] - Quote I've heard the Mach referred to as the best cruiser in the game.... its speed and agility need a much larger nerf than what you've proposed. - Although most of the T1 BSs are now significantly faster (ie the "attack" BSs) - I suppose the other pirate BSs could get speed buffs, while the mach remains unchanged. Meanwhile, I think the PG nerf is uncalled for.
MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 1284	Posted - 2013.09.09 22:06:00 - [16] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: MeBiatch wrote: Dave Stark wrote: probably replace 1 shield extender rig with another ACR rig, and nothing has changed except a slight drop in EHP. 8k ehp loss, meh. it's still better than any of the proposed marauders for incursions. so not enough ehp loss? what would you suggest if i have not gone far enough? all you did was take some of the fitting off, essentially nothing relevant was changed to address the gap between marauders and pirate battleships in an incursion environment. read again I also reduced the falloff plus increased mass and sig and slowed it down. .. now I ask again how much shield hp and armor does it need to loose? 500-1000? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request
MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 1284	Posted - 2013.09.09 22:31:00 - [17] - Quote Ok op has been updated with more significant nerf There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request
Arthur Aihaken The.VOID 178	Posted - 2013.09.10 01:05:00 - [18] - Quote If you're going to drop it to 6 turrets (which is fine purely from an aesthetic and cost standpoint), you need to reallocate one of the highs to a medium. It's sorely lacking as a shield tank. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
m3talc0re X Solar Revolutions Co. 148	Posted - 2013.09.10 03:24:00 - [19] - Quote Don't have time to read all the replies right now, but Mach needs nerfed... Also, it needs 8 guns with a bonus nerf to compensate. The 7 gun layout on that ship drives me nuts with the actual gun placement on the ship... I actually sold mine because of that. For that reason alone XD
Arthur Aihaken The.VOID 181	Posted - 2013.09.10 05:41:00 - [20] - Quote m3talc0re X wrote: Don't have time to read all the replies right now, but Mach needs nerfed... Also, it needs 8 guns with a bonus nerf to compensate. The 7 gun layout on that ship drives me nuts with the actual gun placement on the ship... I actually sold mine because of that. For that reason alone XD 6 guns, buff the tracking and/or damage and allocate a high slot to a medium so we can run a decent shield tank. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

m3talc0re X Solar Revolutions Co. 148	Posted - 2013.09.10 07:15:00 - [21] - Quote It can already run a decent shield tank XD Afaik, it can. I'm fine with 6 guns or 8 guns, so long as it's f'ing even. The gun layout on the ship just looks ******** with 7 guns on it.
TZeer Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad. 21	Posted - 2013.09.10 10:20:00 - [22] - Quote Don't you touch the alpha!
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction 501	Posted - 2013.09.10 10:25:00 - [23] - Quote MeBiatch wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: How dare you put round numbers in a ship stats sheet? well they were all rounded down... plus the fall off got a good nerf. so its slower shoots not as far is bigger sig resolution smaller drone bay... overall its a total nerf. but still a great ship. You overnerfed it a little bit. If you neerf it this level, then you need to nerf the vindicator as well..a dn the snow ball starts. THe path is correct, but could be less agressive on a few points.
Daichi Yamato Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 770	Posted - 2013.09.10 10:52:00 - [24] - Quote the spring in the machs step is its defining feature. build everything around that. so even less ehp, but keep the agility, to make it the most focused attack battleship in the game. also 6 turrets and two utility highs is very cool. Quote: If you neerf it this level, then you need to nerf the vindicator as well..a dn the snow ball starts i can see the vindi more focused into an attack role too There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery.
Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 502	Posted - 2013.09.10 11:48:00 - [25] - Quote While we are at it, let's nerf Bhaalgorn. I mean, in most cases Mach is a luxury, while Bhaal can be considered a necessity at times No, it wasn't serious post. But I still feel that all-around nerf of Mach is not the greatest idea. You could address some of its traits but leave other strong points in place so that overall it's still great for some niche role (in some of which Mach is used already). For that matter, depending on what CCP has up their sleeve for other pirate BSs, it can happen that Mach won't be getting huge nerfs. And yeah, visual layout of turrets should be fixed.
Harvey James Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 493	Posted - 2013.09.10 13:26:00 - [26] - Quote MeBiatch wrote: So IMO the Mach is the best sub cap ship in game. It has been for a long long time and needs to get its stuff in gear. Below is the changes the ship needs to be in line with all other ships Quote: Machariel GÇóRole Bonus: 37.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret tracking GÇóGalente Battleship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level GÇóMinmatar Battleship Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level GÇóSlot layout: 8H, 5M, 7L; 6turrets (-1), 0 launchers GÇóFittings: 16000 (-1950) MW PWG , 600 CPU GÇóDefense (shields / armor / hull) : 8000(-1317) / 8000(-1298) / 9000(+740) GÇóMobility (max velocity / mass): 140 m/s(-21) / 98,500,000 (+8,320,000) GÇóDrones (bandwidth / bay): 75(-25) / 100(-25) GÇóTargeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km(-2km) / 140-10 / 7 GÇóSensor strength: 26 LADAR GÇóSignature radius: 360(-+20) I fixed the decimal place for you but you're numbers are wrong 94.680,000kg is the current Mach's mass so if you add 8.320,000 you get more than 98,500,000 kg Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please.
MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 1285	Posted - 2013.09.10 13:44:00 - [27] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: MeBiatch wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: How dare you put round numbers in a ship stats sheet? well they were all rounded down... plus the fall off got a good nerf. so its slower shoots not as far is bigger sig resolution smaller drone bay... overall its a total nerf. but still a great ship. You overnerfed it a little bit. If you neerf it this level, then you need to nerf the vindicator as well..a dn the snow ball starts. THe path is correct, but could be less agressive on a few points. so what move a high to a mid? which area would you increase so not to make the nerf too much? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request
Harvey James Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 494	Posted - 2013.09.10 13:45:00 - [28] - Quote Machariel, Attack battleship GÇóSpecial ability: 20%(-5) bonus to Large Projectile Turret ROF GÇóGallente Battleship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level GÇóMinmatar Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage GÇóSlot layout: 8H, 6M,(+1) 6L(-1); 8 turrets (+1), 0 launchers GÇóFittings: 17,950 PG , 660 CPU GÇóDefense (shields / armor / hull) : 9000(-317) / 7000(-2298) / 7000(-1,260) GÇóMobility (max velocity / mass/ agility): 140 m/s(-21) / 94,680,000 / 0.090 (+0.06) GÇóDrones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-50) / 75(-50) GÇóTargeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 62km / 135(-15) / 7 GÇóSensor strength: 22 Ladar (-4) GÇóSignature radius: 310 (-30) I think this is more inline with other attack navy battleships and reducing its versatility emphasizing shield tank and low sig makes more sense as a kiting ship. along with more turret dps in exchange for drone dps. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please.
MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 1285	Posted - 2013.09.10 13:46:00 - [29] - Quote Harvey James wrote: I fixed the decimal place for you but you're numbers are wrong 94.680,000kg is the current Mach's mass so if you add 8.320,000 you get more than 98,500,000 kg thanks i was pulling off of eve wiki for the info... that site really needs an update There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request
Proteles Cristatus Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.09.10 13:50:00 - [30] - Quote Nerfing the Machariel's speed. Isn't that like Nerfing a mining barges miners?.. (i.e. a bit stupid)



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