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Vihura Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN 45	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:54:00 - [1] - Quote I have question ? What was logical reasoning to give cruises hull size interceptor agility, MWD frigate speed , 5 small drone, 400+ dps ??
To mare Advanced Technology 253	Posted - 2013.09.20 11:07:00 - [2] - Quote because its a pirate cruiser, if you look at the vigilant whats the reason to give the thing battleship dps BC tank 90% webs 5 drones etc etc
Froggy Storm Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement 99	Posted - 2013.09.20 11:09:00 - [3] - Quote Please show us on the doll where the fellow from FA touched you. A caracal alone doesn't stand a chance against a pirate cruiser. A rlm caracal should have bugged out as soon as it hit d-scan
Drake Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 272	Posted - 2013.09.20 11:15:00 - [4] - Quote To mare wrote: because its a pirate cruiser, if you look at the vigilant whats the reason to give the thing battleship dps BC tank 90% webs 5 drones etc etc Actually it's just a brutix with 90% webs and besides the phantasm and cynabal, the rest have a similar ehp level. "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
To mare Advanced Technology 253	Posted - 2013.09.20 11:51:00 - [5] - Quote Drake Doe wrote: To mare wrote: because its a pirate cruiser, if you look at the vigilant whats the reason to give the thing battleship dps BC tank 90% webs 5 drones etc etc Actually it's just a buffer fit brutix with 90% webs and besides the phantasm and cynabal, the rest have a similar ehp level. since OP said cyna have speed and agility comparable to an interceptor i tought i was allowed some exagerations
Vihura Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN 45	Posted - 2013.09.20 12:01:00 - [6] - Quote To mare wrote: Drake Doe wrote: To mare wrote: because its a pirate cruiser, if you look at the vigilant whats the reason to give the thing battleship dps BC tank 90% webs 5 drones etc etc Actually it's just a buffer fit brutix with 90% webs and besides the phantasm and cynabal, the rest have a similar ehp level. since OP said cyna have speed and agility comparable to an interceptor i tought i was allowed some exagerations Crusader Aline time 3.05s Cynabal with one NanoII Aline time 2.93s
Crellion Parental Control 56	Posted - 2013.09.20 12:04:00 - [7] - Quote Vihura wrote: To mare wrote: Drake Doe wrote: To mare wrote: because its a pirate cruiser, if you look at the vigilant whats the reason to give the thing battleship dps BC tank 90% webs 5 drones etc etc Actually it's just a buffer fit brutix with 90% webs and besides the phantasm and cynabal, the rest have a similar ehp level. since OP said cyna have speed and agility comparable to an interceptor i tought i was allowed some exagerations Crusader Aline time 3.05s Cynabal with one NanoII Aline time 2.93s Busted!
Drake Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 272	Posted - 2013.09.20 12:11:00 - [8] - Quote To mare wrote: Drake Doe wrote: To mare wrote: because its a pirate cruiser, if you look at the vigilant whats the reason to give the thing battleship dps BC tank 90% webs 5 drones etc etc Actually it's just a buffer fit brutix with 90% webs and besides the phantasm and cynabal, the rest have a similar ehp level. since OP said cyna have speed and agility comparable to an interceptor i tought i was allowed some exagerations Sad thing is that the op didn't exaggerate much... "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Verity Sovereign Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter 558	Posted - 2013.09.20 13:11:00 - [9] - Quote Because historically CCP has been very bad at balancing. At least Winmatar aren't so winmatar anymore... but when it was winmatar, we needed to have Pirate WinWinWInmatar. The Mach is OP as hell too, and so was the Dram. They've already nerfed the Dram, they've said they acknowledge the mach is OPd (as to how much, and how much of a nerf is coming, we don't know), the Cyna needs a bit of a nerf too. Of course, they need to not over nerf them - at least the T1 cruiser and BS rebalance occurred before the nerf. At least we should avoid the case of "ship/module A is OP'd relative to group X, nerf ship A", followed by "Group X is underpowered, buff group X" - which leaves ship/module A in the dust. IMO, Angel ships have always been too OPd (its ok to have an expensive pirate boat be a little OPd), while Sansha, guristas, and BR were underwhelming. IMO they should all be nerfed/buffed relative to "serpentis level"
Dato Koppla Veni Vidi Evassi 297	Posted - 2013.09.20 14:27:00 - [10] - Quote Yeah Sanshas, Guristas and BR (except the Bhaal, but thats because it is the best at its role: capital-ship-neuter) ships are really miles away from Angels ships. Serpentis is pretty good simply because 90% webs are amazing and mix together well with facemelting dps. Dramiel was brought down to a reasonable level, it's nowhere as OP as it used to be, but can still be used to great effect with the right pilot. Cyna and Mach definitely need to be brought down a peg but it would be sad to see them nerfed into the realm of being unusable. So far CCP have been giving most classes of ships a second round of rebalancing after they hit TQ for abit, hopefully they keep this up and we'll have well balanced Angels ships rather than wtf solo pwnboats.
Ghost Phius Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:36:00 - [11] - Quote Posting in yet another one of these I got my ass handed to me by a doulbe skill intensive, high priced, awesome top of the line WAI pirate shinny ship now nerf them please threads. I wonder if CCP is going to cave to a small group of players on a bunch of alts in the forums calling for nerfs to WAI top shelf ships in EVE. They did give some lip service to the group, but that was way back in 2009 which IMHO looked like nothing more than placation at best. Time will tell.
Goldensaver Personal Defense LtD. 236	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:50:00 - [12] - Quote Ghost Phius wrote: Posting in yet another one of these I got my ass handed to me by a doulbe skill intensive Irrelevant, takes 20-25 days to train a second cruiser to V, and you should never lose the skill. Hardly "skill intensive". I've got plenty of the skills to V just because I want to fly all races, and these pirate ships came as bonus. Quote: high priced Price is dictated by supply and demand. The supply is the same as all the other pirate cruisers, yet most of them cost almost half as much (vigilant is the odd one out, costing even more because of its effect with blap dreads). Gee, guess the demand is higher. I wonder why that is? Oh, because it's so powerful it's stronger than its own class. Quote: awesome top of the line WAI pirate shinny ship now nerf them please threads. I wonder if CCP is going to cave to a small group of players on a bunch of alts in the forums calling for nerfs to WAI top shelf ships in EVE. They did give some lip service to the group, but that was way back in 2009 which IMHO looked like nothing more than placation at best. Time will tell. Definitely didn't have a CCP post talking about how the Cynabal is too strong and WILL be getting a nerf in another thread. Definitely not. Here's hoping they don't overnerf it though. I do think it should be powerful, but not broken.
Yabba Addict The Lost Minmatar Legion LEX LEGIONEM 75	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:57:00 - [13] - Quote Hopefully they put Rise in charge of it, he seems to actually listen to feedback and comes back with new ideas
Ghost Phius Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2013.09.20 18:01:00 - [14] - Quote Time will tell, maybe we will hear about some new things for the winter expansion.
Metal Icarus Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad. 626	Posted - 2013.09.20 18:03:00 - [15] - Quote If a cynabal is as fast as an interceptor, that is one ****** interceptor
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 524	Posted - 2013.09.20 18:49:00 - [16] - Quote Metal Icarus wrote: If a cynabal is as fast as an interceptor, that is one **** interceptor *** = slow as hell
Ginger Barbarella Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1499	Posted - 2013.09.20 19:39:00 - [17] - Quote Vihura wrote: I have question ? What was logical reasoning to give cruises hull size interceptor agility, MWD frigate speed , 5 small drone, 400+ dps ?? Tell us where the bad Cynabal touched you... "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Goldensaver Personal Defense LtD. 238	Posted - 2013.09.20 20:26:00 - [18] - Quote Froggy Storm wrote: Please show us on the doll where the fellow from FA touched you. A caracal alone doesn't stand a chance against a pirate cruiser. A rlm caracal should have bugged out as soon as it hit d-scan Ginger Barbarella wrote: Vihura wrote: I have question ? What was logical reasoning to give cruises hull size interceptor agility, MWD frigate speed , 5 small drone, 400+ dps ?? Tell us where the bad Cynabal touched you... You were late to the party buddy. Go take your trollpost elsewhere. Contribute. Don't simply state a rhetoric that gets posted in every single thread like this. Exaggeration in the first post, but the devs have stated the Cynabal's up for a nerf. Therefore he must be right that it's overpowered because if it wasn't the Devs wouldn't be nerfing it.
Vihura Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN 45	Posted - 2013.09.20 20:34:00 - [19] - Quote Metal Icarus wrote: If a cynabal is as fast as an interceptor, that is one ****** interceptor Hi can you highlight in my post where I wrote the cynabal is faster than interceptor..
Froggy Storm Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement 102	Posted - 2013.09.21 03:31:00 - [20] - Quote Compulsory pedo-bear reference aside, the point that I tried to show case (without breaking forum rule about linking KM's) is that the OP flying a rlm caracal got caught with his pants down and blown to bits. And a short time later comes posting the same tired saw to nerf "x" I couldn't kill or escape. I do give OP proper credit for posting with his main however. Others would have hidden behind a sock puppet.
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 1229	Posted - 2013.09.21 11:31:00 - [21] - Quote Vihura wrote: I have question ? What was logical reasoning to give cruises hull size interceptor agility, MWD frigate speed , 5 small drone, 400+ dps ?? You should fear the sight of any Vigilant on your Grid, not a Cyna, the only thing it's good at its run like a coward as soon as his tralala gets touched. Ridiculous speed/agility? -I can agree on that but for everything else it's rather OK for a pirate ship removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 524	Posted - 2013.09.21 11:46:00 - [22] - Quote Vihura wrote: Metal Icarus wrote: If a cynabal is as fast as an interceptor, that is one ****** interceptor Hi can you highlight in my post where I wrote the cynabal is faster than interceptor.. You chose a slow frigate, compare to at least an atron or slasher....you know the fast ones.
Vihura Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN 45	Posted - 2013.09.21 13:21:00 - [23] - Quote Froggy Storm wrote: Compulsory pedo-bear reference aside, the point that I tried to show case (without breaking forum rule about linking KM's) is that the OP flying a rlm caracal got caught with his pants down and blown to bits. And a short time later comes posting the same tired saw to nerf "x" I couldn't kill or escape. I do give OP proper credit for posting with his main however. Others would have hidden behind a sock puppet. Caracal loss was accident and i don't have problem with this loss. But I have question to you what is best solo ship vs cynabal, to catch it and hold in place or kill. Anyway dramiel was defended exacly tha same way you defend cynabal .
Vihura Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN 45	Posted - 2013.09.21 13:24:00 - [24] - Quote Onictus wrote: Vihura wrote: Metal Icarus wrote: If a cynabal is as fast as an interceptor, that is one ****** interceptor Hi can you highlight in my post where I wrote the cynabal is faster than interceptor.. You chose a slow frigate, compare to at least an atron or slasher....you know the fast ones. Do you want compare ehp and dps and dronte too ? I compare it to shield tristan with one nanao and it not slow ship
Lloyd Roses Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 251	Posted - 2013.09.21 15:34:00 - [25] - Quote Cynabal is such a fine ship :( Though if you want a capacitorand/or tank - and can neglect a little agility - can now also take a vagabond. Think it is the same as a Dramiel, it's an engine with guns, that's pretty much all you get. If you want to kill solo-cynabal, take XL-ASB-vagabond <.< (Cause tanks np and web+scram / speed avaiable) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3633385&#post3633385 - The right corp to join if welping a 10bil fleet makes you want to welp a 20bil fleet right afterwards
Verity Sovereign Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter 559	Posted - 2013.09.21 17:42:00 - [26] - Quote Don't forget drones... Angel ships get more drones than any other pirate ship except Guristas. Also don't forget sensors... they've got the best scan res. Oh, and they've got a good amount of HP too, not the highest, but still very good. So basically, they're engines, sensor system, guns, defenses, drone launchers... ie everything you want in a ship... ie overpowered.
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 524	Posted - 2013.09.21 18:21:00 - [27] - Quote Verity Sovereign wrote: Don't forget drones... Angel ships get more drones than any other pirate ship except Guristas. Also don't forget sensors... they've got the best scan res. Oh, and they've got a good amount of HP too, not the highest, but still very good. So basically, they're engines, sensor system, guns, defenses, drone launchers... ie everything you want in a ship... ie overpowered. You are such a ******* hater
Drake Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 274	Posted - 2013.09.21 18:32:00 - [28] - Quote Onictus wrote: Verity Sovereign wrote: Don't forget drones... Angel ships get more drones than any other pirate ship except Guristas. Also don't forget sensors... they've got the best scan res. Oh, and they've got a good amount of HP too, not the highest, but still very good. So basically, they're engines, sensor system, guns, defenses, drone launchers... ie everything you want in a ship... ie overpowered. You are such a ******* hater Whether they're a hater or not is up for debate, but regardless you're ignoring the truth. "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 524	Posted - 2013.09.21 19:04:00 - [29] - Quote Drake Doe wrote: Onictus wrote: Verity Sovereign wrote: Don't forget drones... Angel ships get more drones than any other pirate ship except Guristas. Also don't forget sensors... they've got the best scan res. Oh, and they've got a good amount of HP too, not the highest, but still very good. So basically, they're engines, sensor system, guns, defenses, drone launchers... ie everything you want in a ship... ie overpowered. You are such a ******* hater Whether they're a hater or not is up for debate, but regardless you're ignoring the truth. Show me on the doll where the bad cynabal touched you.
Goldensaver Personal Defense LtD. 238	Posted - 2013.09.21 19:22:00 - [30] - Quote Onictus wrote: Show me on the doll where the bad cynabal touched you. Wow, that's only the third time this thread someone has said that! You must think you're really smart and witty!
Night Sword Dedicated Individuals Conditioned to Kill B O R G 4	Posted - 2013.09.21 19:43:00 - [31] - Quote So many cry-baby b****es in this thread. Go back to WoW
Goldensaver Personal Defense LtD. 238	Posted - 2013.09.21 20:05:00 - [32] - Quote Night Sword wrote: So many cry-baby b**es in this thread. Go back to WoW So many constructive posters in this thread putting up logical and reasonable arguments as to why the "cry-baby b**es" are wrong. Astounding.
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 524	Posted - 2013.09.22 08:58:00 - [33] - Quote Goldensaver wrote: Night Sword wrote: So many cry-baby b**es in this thread. Go back to WoW So many constructive posters in this thread putting up logical and reasonable arguments as to why the "cry-baby b**es" are wrong. Astounding. Dude got caught ratting, odds are he would have died to a T1 cruiser as well.
Verity Sovereign Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter 559	Posted - 2013.09.22 11:12:00 - [34] - Quote All the ad hominem attacks you want won't make an argument against nerfing the cynabal. What happened to the OP is irrelevant.
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 524	Posted - 2013.09.22 11:42:00 - [35] - Quote Verity Sovereign wrote: All the ad hominem attacks you want won't make an argument against nerfing the cynabal. What happened to the OP is irrelevant. Yes we know, nerf it all. Sounds exciting.
Lloyd Roses Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 252	Posted - 2013.09.22 11:58:00 - [36] - Quote Trying again: The cynabal is one of the weakest tanked ships. Unless it can maneuver in a spot where it cannot be hit (the existance of such a spot is a neessity to engage anything at all), it cannot fight. It is an excellent noobhunter, and works wonderfully in nullsec, but that's mostly to the locally deceased piloting skills, as years of relying on falcons have rendered most people weak and crippled. The normal Cynabal is either 2 LSE or three LSE tanked, with the extremely rare exception of LSE/XL-ASB (i.E. this fit doesn't matter), has normally a point and eventually a web or dualprop for the 2 LSE varaiation. All got a sig of 180m+ in average, as most people only got shield rigging to III or IV. So it's a glowing star easily trackable by all it's predators: zealot, raildeimos, caracal, cerb, oracle, tornado, artymuninn, railvigilant, vagabond, any HPL or MPL platform, talos, railthorax, ishtar, absolution, railastarte, NOmen, Nexqueror to an extent, and lastly the Scythe FI all wipe the floor with a cynabal regarding either or both tank+dps-application. What speaks in favor of the cynabal is it's faster align, but else a similiarly skilled cynapilot (not SP, actual piloting competence) running into any of those encounters on a solo basis will receive more applied damage than he is able to dish out most of the time, take 2 cnas and 2 of those and the cyna is even looking worse. What is still speaking for the cynabal is the ability to carry TWO SETS of drones (EC-300 + warriors), with the ganking application of a flight of hammerheads. Those hammerheads are frequently ou-dps'ing your turrets on the side, to give a statement on how much of your 350dps barrage you're actually applying (rarely flew a cyna since the NOmen got revamped, cause the cyna got ****** exactly that moment) So if you actually manage to die to a cynabal, it wasn't because that ship is sooooo strong on all accounts, but cause it's strong on one single remaining account: Mobility. Besides mobility, the cynabal is getting out-damaged, out-drone'd, outtanked and in the case of the NOmen yet even outrun and held indefinetely cause unlike you, he does have the cap to keep those mods running using proper armorkite-fit. The only things remaining that have to fear a lone cynabal are shitfit T1-cruisers, slow SR-ships that can't apply dps back (that can sometimes be a 1bil hamlegion (yay) or just a very great navy brutix and a bunch of smaller stuff that is trying to fight the wrong fight, running ino exactly the same issues they'd have against any T1 cruiser for a fracture of the price. Hope that is constructive enough to highlight the cynabal's remaining strength. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3633385&#post3633385 - The right corp to join if welping a 10bil fleet makes you want to welp a 20bil fleet right afterwards
baltec1 Bat Country 8054	Posted - 2013.09.22 13:17:00 - [37] - Quote The ragenought that is going to happen when CCP puts up its nerf thread is going to be so much fun.
BadAssMcKill Love Squad 374	Posted - 2013.09.22 14:31:00 - [38] - Quote P much can guarantee that much like HMLs, the drake, the cane and other stuff CCP will forget they buffed a load of stuff and nerf the Cynabal and Mach far too hard http://i.imgur.com/6j6cIZE.gif-á

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