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Brutor Shaun
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Posted - 2006.01.15 21:39:00 -
[1]
I'm in the middle of a skirmish with about 25-30 targets around me, and all my drones go and attack a mining colony which, as part of my mission, I'm meant to leave alone in peace!!!
I finish the mission and leave 2 of them as I get bored waiting for them to come back!
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JamesTalon
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Posted - 2006.01.15 21:55:00 -
[2]
Wow, must suck that you don't realize you can tell your drones to attack a target eh?
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Brutor Shaun
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Posted - 2006.01.15 21:58:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: JamesTalon
Wow, must suck that you don't realize you can tell your drones to attack a target eh?
Wow...must suck having nothing constructive to say!
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JamesTalon
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Posted - 2006.01.15 22:02:00 -
[4]
What, you expect me to be constructive on the toilet? lol, never gonna happen 
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Darius Shakor
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Posted - 2006.01.15 22:04:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Darius Shakor on 15/01/2006 22:05:25
Drones are not broken. They have always been like that. They are simply dumb robots in their most basic form that you have to tell what to do. Otherwise they run amock and shoot the nearest and least tactically sound targets.
Drones are not meant to be something you let lose and have them do all the work for you without having to lift a finger. They are something you have to point in the right durection constantly. Have a list of targets lined up in your fight and be ready to tell the drones your new target the minute the current one goes pop. That is the way it is meant to be.
Edit: Ohh yeah I do know about the bug where unharmed drones don't respond to the return command and fly really slow. That does need fixing I agree with you there.
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Shakor Clan Information Portal
Every man has a devil. You can never rest until you find it. |
Brutor Shaun
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Posted - 2006.01.15 22:12:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Darius Shakor
Edited by: Darius Shakor on 15/01/2006 22:05:25
Drones are not broken. They have always been like that. They are simply dumb robots in their most basic form that you have to tell what to do. Otherwise they run amock and shoot the nearest and least tactically sound targets.
Yeah, but they should at least have the logic to engage a threat, or a moving object, prior to engaging a structure.
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Core Bash
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Posted - 2006.01.15 22:16:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Darius Shakor
...Drones are not meant to be something you let lose and have them do all the work for you without having to lift a finger...
The last time I checked my FOF's don't shoot down mining colonies. That is, unless they shoot me first, of course.
And yes, the sticky copulating drone bug has been around for years. That's a ridiculously long amount of time for a bug to exist for such a popular item. If a particular turret weapon had a problem where two guns would get interlocked and not shoot I have a feeling that would produce a hotfix within a day. People who use drones as their primary weapon (and there are lots of ships that promote primary drone use) have been shafted for years. It makes me think twice before taking out my Dominix.
Drones, the bastard project of EVE.
_
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Rutoo
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Posted - 2006.01.15 22:18:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Brutor Shaun
Originally by: Darius Shakor
Edited by: Darius Shakor on 15/01/2006 22:05:25
Drones are not broken. They have always been like that. They are simply dumb robots in their most basic form that you have to tell what to do. Otherwise they run amock and shoot the nearest and least tactically sound targets.
Yeah, but they should at least have the logic to engage a threat, or a moving object, prior to engaging a structure.
Read what he said again, he said Drones are Dumb, therefor they have no logic, they have been like that for longer then you have played
So suck it up, Right Click, Engage Target
______________________________________________
You Put Something like that in your Sig Again and I ban you -- Oveur |
Bubba Love
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Posted - 2006.01.15 22:24:00 -
[9]
Lol, if turrets were affected by similar bugs, such as :-- jamming
- failing to register damage
- shooting at 1/10 of their RoF
- sticking with the next turret resulting in both going offline
- shooting at the wrong target
- failing to reload (not returning into drone bay)
then I'm sure the forums would still be full of wiseasses saying there's nothing wrong. 
Drones are currently in a bad way. Filling out bug reports [no doubt duplicates] is the constructive thing to do though...
civire chicks are the best... |
Darius Shakor
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Posted - 2006.01.15 22:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Core Bash
Originally by: Darius Shakor
...Drones are not meant to be something you let lose and have them do all the work for you without having to lift a finger...
The last time I checked my FOF's don't shoot down mining colonies. That is, unless they shoot me first, of course.
FOF are not drones though. They have a different rule of working.
In the end, drones simply go after anything they are allowd to kill until you tell them. If they didn't work this way then there would not be an 'Attack Target' command for them because you wouldn't need it.
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Shakor Clan Information Portal
Every man has a devil. You can never rest until you find it. |
Katrine Bei
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Posted - 2006.01.15 22:32:00 -
[11]
Why damnit do drones slow down to about 5m/s 50m outside of return to bay range! damn anoying and often it makes you lose your drones since you dont have enough hp to turn your slow BC around to travell 30m then to turn around again to warp 
Just stop them from slowing down when they are commanded to return to drone bay!
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Bubba Love
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Posted - 2006.01.15 22:53:00 -
[12]
Quote:
In the end, drones simply go after anything they are allowd to kill until you tell them. If they didn't work this way then there would not be an 'Attack Target' command for them because you wouldn't need it.
Most drone users micro-manage their drones with the 'attack target' option. Having destroyed their current target, the next target routine always seems to pick the most inappropriate target, ie. the furthest away or least dangerous. From a coding perspective it could be that the targets are taken from a sorted list and that the next target is actually the taken from the wrong end of the list - ie. chooses least desirable target.
Lag makes micro-management a pain. If you dont issue the 'attack target' option at the right moment, your drones can let off a few shots at un-aggroed targets, resulting in significant aggro on level3/4 missions.
Arguing that this is the correct behaviour, ie. drones shouldn't be FoF, makes for what in my mind would be one of the games biggest mis-features.
civire chicks are the best... |
super4lt
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Posted - 2006.01.15 23:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Brutor Shaun
I'm in the middle of a skirmish with about 25-30 targets around me, and all my drones go and attack a mining colony which, as part of my mission, I'm meant to leave alone in peace!!!
I finish the mission and leave 2 of them as I get bored waiting for them to come back!
Log.Off.Forever.
Super4lt is here to let yall know what time it is
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babyblue
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Posted - 2006.01.15 23:06:00 -
[14]
Drones need constant supervision. You should give them orders 3 times. YES 3 TIMES, at least, to be sure they got the message and then you should be ready to give them their next order 3 times, RIGHT AWAY THE SPLIT SECOND AFTER THEY HAVE COMPLETED THE PREVIOUS ORDER. This will remove any problems you might have with their reliability in the field. I never have problems with them and most certainly won't even use them in dodgy situations.
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Aristilus
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Posted - 2006.01.15 23:22:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Aristilus on 15/01/2006 23:27:25
Edited by: Aristilus on 15/01/2006 23:26:56
Quote:
I'm in the middle of a skirmish with about 25-30 targets around me, and all my drones go and attack a mining colony which, as part of my mission, I'm meant to leave alone in peace!!!
I finish the mission and leave 2 of them as I get bored waiting for them to come back!
Some ppl always have something to grief about
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Darius Shakor
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Posted - 2006.01.15 23:25:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Bubba Love
Quote:
In the end, drones simply go after anything they are allowd to kill until you tell them. If they didn't work this way then there would not be an 'Attack Target' command for them because you wouldn't need it.
Most drone users micro-manage their drones with the 'attack target' option. Having destroyed their current target, the next target routine always seems to pick the most inappropriate target, ie. the furthest away or least dangerous. From a coding perspective it could be that the targets are taken from a sorted list and that the next target is actually the taken from the wrong end of the list - ie. chooses least desirable target.
Lag makes micro-management a pain. If you dont issue the 'attack target' option at the right moment, your drones can let off a few shots at un-aggroed targets, resulting in significant aggro on level3/4 missions.
Arguing that this is the correct behaviour, ie. drones shouldn't be FoF, makes for what in my mind would be one of the games biggest mis-features.
OK fair points but for me game features should not be tailored to the lag situation. that is a seperate issue that needs solving and, fingers and toes crossed, will be when the new server is in place. So arguing that they should be more intelegent to help lagged users is not the way forward.
Secondly, I use drones all the time on some very intense lvl 3 and 4 missions and I have rarely had my drones fire at somethng I don't want them to. Deffinately not in the last half of a year so there is no excuse for people not using this technique. I would actually be bored if my drones didn't need my help in sorting targets in combat.
Plus it adds a tactical edge too. My next designated target for the drones might be quite far away for them to fly to meaning I either have to switch priorities, bail out or grit my teeth and go with it. Not to mention that I might need to redirect my fire onto a different target in that same kind of situation, like a battleship starting to do some serious damage to me but my drones are chewing a cruiser nearly 20 km away. Anyway that is a little off the topic.
Anyway, back on complexes and missions with multiple spawns. That to me is a risk that adds to the game and gives it an element of challange that I enjoy. I don't want it easy and risk free. Sure I would generate isk from missions faster but what is the point in that in the end when I am not having fun while doing it? Drones are a double edges sword, like back in the civil war days when the platoon idiot was given charge of hauling the barrels of gunpowder around for the Howitzer cannons. He forgets which cannon needs the powder and you never know when he will drop the damned thing too close to the camp fire and blow half your army up. (I know, totally out of context but paints a nice picture don't you think? )
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Shakor Clan Information Portal
Every man has a devil. You can never rest until you find it. |
Bubba Love
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Posted - 2006.01.15 23:53:00 -
[17]
Quote:
OK fair points but for me game features should not be tailored to the lag situation. that is a seperate issue that needs solving and, fingers and toes crossed, will be when the new server is in place. So arguing that they should be more intelegent to help lagged users is not the way forward.
Agreed.
I'm not saying that drones shouldn't be micro-managed. Sitting back and doing nothing is clearly bad game design. However what I disagree with is the current behaviour of automatically attacking the least desirable target which is normally un-aggro'd or a structure.
The attack logic would be better if they attacked the least desirable aggro-ed target, or perhaps individually attacking a random target from the top 5 desirable targets.
Quote:
... Drones are a double edges sword, like back in the civil war days when the platoon idiot was given charge of hauling the barrels of gunpowder around for the Howitzer cannons. He forgets which cannon needs the powder and you never know when he will drop the damned thing too close to the camp fire and blow half your army up. (I know, totally out of context but paints a nice picture don't you think?)
LOL
Anyway, I guess all the other drone related bugs and lag are compounding my annoyance with the targetting issue. Normally I would be more tolerant.
civire chicks are the best... |
Gaius Sejanus
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Posted - 2006.01.16 00:01:00 -
[18]
I just want them to return to the drone bay properly when I tell them to, not have to go through 5 minutes of shifting orders and flying around towards them and away from them, and all that other BS that you have to endure just to get them back in the drone bay. That part is clearly a huge bug and in dire need of fixing.
I can live with their stupidity regarding targeting.
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ErrorS
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Posted - 2006.01.16 00:07:00 -
[19]
the other day I was being jammed in a complex, so I loaded FOFs.. they worked so well the day before.. anyways, fired tem off and they started attacking those damn "walls" that are in every complex.
So yes, FOFs are just as stupid as drones.. and drones are pretty damn stupid.
I don't care what anyone says, THEY HAVE PROBLEMS. With lights it's impossible to get them to stop engaging other groups in a complex before they screw you up. I use mediums only because of that one reason, I can react before they mess me up.
Drones suck, they're broken, they need fixed..
this is coming from a caldari pilot who hardly gives two ****s about his drones. I'm sorry, if my missiles worked half as bad as drones did I would be very angry.
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
Ankanos
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Posted - 2006.01.16 03:53:00 -
[20]
all they would need to do is replace the current drone AI with
what changes the AI when in a gang. -would solve a good 80%
of the current AI issues. as when ganged drones only follow
your gunfire and go idle once the target they are shooting
at is dead..and do not attack structures etc.
-ank
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Zolofine
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Posted - 2006.01.16 04:57:00 -
[21]
This is perfectly explicable...
The drones weaponry and armor/shield has been seriously upgraded. But to cramm all those upgrades into the drones they had to take out most of the brain. Hence drones = dumb as a rock. |
Miniver Cheevy
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Posted - 2006.01.16 07:14:00 -
[22]
I'll agree that it's a little ridiculous how drones autotarget. I gave up allowing them to do so long, long ago. It's so bad, there is no point to using it. And that's where the problem lies, the same as with FOF missiles. Why should they even HAVE autotargeting if it's so bad? I mean, let's think that through. FOF, I sort of see the point (easy to activate or deactivate them in combat, depending on what's surrounding you), but drones? If the targeting doesn't work, it shouldn't exist.
I only see two solutions: there should either be NO drone autotargeting (or an option to turn it off) or good autotargeting. I imagine the first, unfortunately, is more likely to happen.
Miniver, a long time Dominix pilot
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Darkdashing
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Posted - 2006.01.16 08:00:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Core Bash
Originally by: Darius Shakor
...Drones are not meant to be something you let lose and have them do all the work for you without having to lift a finger...
The last time I checked my FOF's don't shoot down mining colonies. That is, unless they shoot me first, of course.
And yes, the sticky copulating drone bug has been around for years. That's a ridiculously long amount of time for a bug to exist for such a popular item. If a particular turret weapon had a problem where two guns would get interlocked and not shoot I have a feeling that would produce a hotfix within a day. People who use drones as their primary weapon (and there are lots of ships that promote primary drone use) have been shafted for years. It makes me think twice before taking out my Dominix.
Drones, the bastard project of EVE.
my mom told me and my sis we were much like the drones in Eve--we never return to orbit and we're hard to scoop to bay.
There is beauty in tension.... |
Corgalen
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Posted - 2006.01.16 08:05:00 -
[24]
Get into a gang, ask a budy if you can gang him, then kick him out again so your staying in a one man gang.
This solves the problem that drones attack anything on random. After having killed their target, they return back to you. Now you can give them a new target.
The 'freakinbuggergetintothedronebay'-issue isnt solved with that. I noticed the faster the drone the worse it gets. I also noticed that some type of ships doesnt seem to have the same problems. Maybe its some sort of collision detection problem.
I dont agree with other people in this thread that drones are a weapon of second choice. There are now drone carriers out with the smallest being the Ishkur und the largest being the new carriers. Their mainweaponry are drones! Dont put such content in a game when its mechanism is screwed... Either fix it or remove it!
Corgalen
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Biosman
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Posted - 2006.01.16 08:10:00 -
[25]
Drones will attack whatever YOU tell them to.simple as that.
there i am getting blown all over space,webbed,scrambled and where are they?...happily attacking a depleted uranium battery,thats my fault,not theirs,so i smartened up and point them at the frigs.
Drones are as dumb as the person operating them
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Lygos
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Posted - 2006.01.16 08:49:00 -
[26]
Two ideas:
1)Extend drone scoop range to 5km. Do it for cans while you're at it.
2)What if you set positive standing to npc factions in your settings. Drones don't attack my friends or pos structures, but I can still direct them to attack a can. I need to test this, but I think it might disable autotargetting altogether.
Amusingly, you can also reset your standing to ms. "EVE System" altogether, which makes all planets show as red. Right click change system message in local I think.
Eunoia: The persistent suspicion that the universe is secretly conspiring to quietly improve one's life. |
Sheriff Jones
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Posted - 2006.01.16 08:49:00 -
[27]
Qucik tip for the return command:
Use, return&orbit, then scoop to bay.
Works like a charm here atleast.
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Teles666
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Posted - 2006.01.16 09:35:00 -
[28]
1) Get rid of the right click menu - I want buttons dammit
2) Fix the big where they approach / return at orbit speed
3) Fix the bug where some drones sit just outside scoop range and never come bac k(no, return and orbit doesn't do it either once they get like this).
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Sonreir
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Posted - 2006.01.16 10:23:00 -
[29]
I've only got 3 complaints about drones:
1.) They don't always return when you tell them to. They'll sit just outside the 1.5km range and taunt you or they'll fly up to 10m away and just not get into the drone bay.
2.) Sometimes the MWD to where they're going and sometimes they take their sweet time. Murphy's laws states they move the slowest when you need them to most.
3.) This is recent since RMR, but my drones can hit frigs these days. I used to be able to kill frigs all day and night with my Vexor on level 2 missions and I just graduated to level 3 missions and started using heavies. Even a webbed 25K (bounty) frig can take several minutes to kill. I tried using mediums and it takes the same time. What gives?
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Sam Albertek
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Posted - 2006.01.16 10:30:00 -
[30]
I've never had any problem with drones, so I'm no sure what all of you are talking about.
Ok sometimes they attack structures. But is it that hard to tell them to attack something else?
drones should at least not attack what isnt moving though. usually for me they attack the pirates near them first, but sometimes they go and attack the cargo rig or pressure silo before they attack the 20-30 rats near me.
As for the getting back thing, i dont know what youre talking about, ive never had it happen. they always got to the target in decent time.
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