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Rells
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Posted - 2006.01.16 09:41:00 -
[1]
I was flying around asteroid belts the other day just bored and noticed that most of the belts in 0.0 space are not much better than those in 0.4 to 0.1 systems. It seems that there are only a very few systems in 0.0 where the mining is really lucrative and that seems to be a shame. It would pull moore people to 0.0 if the rewards were even higher. In fact it would be great if certain areas had ore that produced a lot of one mineral but not the others so that there would be the need for some economic flow.
I would strongly suggest that CCP take a look at resources in 0.0 and think about adding more high end mineral types that cna only be found in certain regions of 0.0 space and change many of the recipies to require these items.
One potential solution would be to change some recipies to require the processed and raw materials that are gained from moon mining operations. This would create a larger demand for these. Perhaps some of these materials could even be introduced into 0.0 ore and certainly the results would be regional. Cruisers would be changed to require amounts of Cobalt, Cadmium and the like. Battleships owuld maybe require some processed materials such as carbon polymers in addition to the raw materials. Dreads, freighters and titans would also require some raw materials and processed materials in addition to what they need now. Even outposts could be updated.
The whole thing that I am getting at is that most of 0.0 is useless except to fly through. There is no reason to attempt dangerous mining operations in systems where the same stuff can be gained in highsec or lowsec. However, if these changes were made to the recipies, there would suddenly be a bigger market for moon mining materials and some of these materials could even be introduced to mined ore. That would be healthy for the economy and give alliances a real reason to defend their territories other than merely bragging rights.
◄ Devs, it's time to finally nerf local: Replacing Local with a practical alternative. |
Rells
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Posted - 2006.01.16 10:35:00 -
[2]
Wow ... off the first page in 10 min. I guess Eve is becomming a serious force in the MMOG scene.
◄ Devs, it's time to finally nerf local: Replacing Local with a practical alternative. |
mogwai
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Posted - 2006.01.16 10:46:00 -
[3]
you'll find that most people mine 0.0sec belts for the highend ore, leaving the lower stuff behind 
this used to cause the problem where the belts turned into the rubbish you see in 0.6 and 0.7 sec
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It isnt a bug, it's a new feature |
Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2006.01.16 11:00:00 -
[4]
Nah, he means the part where only deep 0.0 systems tend to have high end ores, and where systems close to npc stations tend to have none of them no matter how deep into 0.0 they are.
Imo, that's ok. There's more then ebnough high ends in space for all of us so far. It would be a grand waste if CCP would just put in more of them when there finally seems to be a poswsibility that we'll need to compete for them for real after two whole years of population growth.
Profitability of 0.0 has nothing to do with it, it's profitable enough already, if you can compete. If you cant, you dont deserve the profits.
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Power to the players !
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2006.01.16 12:47:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Rod Blaine
Nah, he means the part where only deep 0.0 systems tend to have high end ores, and where systems close to npc stations tend to have none of them no matter how deep into 0.0 they are.
Imo, that's ok. There's more then ebnough high ends in space for all of us so far. It would be a grand waste if CCP would just put in more of them when there finally seems to be a poswsibility that we'll need to compete for them for real after two whole years of population growth.
Profitability of 0.0 has nothing to do with it, it's profitable enough already, if you can compete. If you cant, you dont deserve the profits.
Theres quite a bit of space away from stations that has nothing as well actually.
If CCP actually made those parts of space useful too by either adding high end NPC or Ore or Both of course then there would be more room for people in 0.0, alliance would also be able to claim smaller amounts of space as they no longer need 3 regions to have 5 decent mining spots.
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2006.01.16 12:56:00 -
[6]
This won't make more people go to 0.0. It is not that it isn't rewarding enough, the problem is still the carebear attitude to all forms of competative interaction with other people. The game is actually perfectly fine, it is just the attitudes of the players that is wrong. 0.0 will always be the frontier for players that actually give a damn. Most high sec residents lives in high sec because they don't care about the game, they only care about their own wallet and their own unimportant victories ("yay, soloed another level 4. take that, whoever thinks it's cool and productive"). Those who does not resort to namecalling of everyone who fits scramblers on their ships ("not a chance in hell Im gonna give you the satisfaction to pod me every day, you lameass ganker") instead comes with excuses like "no, Im fine with the money I make in high sec. I don't have to pay for a new battlecruiser every time I undock in high sec". Fine, some people don't like organization and sharing. Makes me sad to think they're paying to play in high sec with their alts, NPCing and mining all day with the only intention to make more ISK though.
CCP gave us a huge sandbox full of toys to play with, but some people choose to sit inside and stare at the wall all day, occationally looking out the window and think "I don't wanna go and play with the other kids, what if someone takes the toy I want to play with...". God, this kind of passiveness makes me wanna punch pandas on the chin. Take advantage of everything the game has to offer, citizens of Jita, Oursulaert and the equals. Life and subscription time is too short to waste on nothing. I believe it was written in the prime fiction of Eve that "the appetite for nothing consumes the world". Think about it.
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Har Ganeth
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Posted - 2006.01.16 13:07:00 -
[7]
Outposts FTW... if there's not a NPC station nearby... build a station.
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Brannigan McCormick
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Posted - 2006.01.16 13:08:00 -
[8]
More ore will not make me make the move to 0.0, thats for sure .. I have almost had no contact with 0.0, except for the odd sight-seeing tours now and then, but, for a pure mining/production corporation, and not a very large one, the work in establishing just a semi-workable mining op in 0.0 takes WAY to much time, compared to the time it will take one pirate to disband, and possibly, destroy all that work.
Moving mining assets to 0.0, establishing refining, etc, when you are not really big, is a hurdle so big that none of us are willing to give it a try.
"Join an alliance", some might say, and yes, that is definately a valid possibility, its just that no one in the corp is looking to give up the independence we have.
I'm not whining, I buy high-ends from the market, and pay the premium, just wanted to chime in and tell you why, even at the prospect of more ore, we will not be moving to 0.0 space anytime soon.
/Bran - Its good for you |
Sheriff Jones
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Posted - 2006.01.16 13:08:00 -
[9]
Man did i read that topic wrong 
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2006.01.16 13:30:00 -
[10]
0.0 systems in reallity range from security rating 0.0 to -1.0.
The systems that are just 0.0 are not much better then most 0.1 systems and are usually not very frequently used by 0.0 alliances.
To get to the really profitable systems you have to find the systems with a rating of less than 0 however the only ingame way to find such a system is to go to it and take a look round as 0.0 space does not differentiate between negative security ratings. There are a number of wabpages that show the true security rating of the universe on the web but I dont seem to have a link to one atm.
Im not sure exactly at what negative security ratings the respective better ores start spawning but I do know that if you find high end ore you will also get better rat spawns (and by better I meen bigger ships with higher bounty).
As a rule 0.0 alliances are well aware of the negative security ratings and thus you can get a fair idea of where some of the -1 sec rating systems are by simply toggling the map to show all the POS claimed systems out there.
As for there being a need to make 0.0 more profitable... that depends of what you meen, if you think 0.0 as a whole needs to be more profitable then no, the rich areas are extremely profitable, they in no way need to be more so however it would be nice if CCP made it so that independent actors could make a better profit out in 0.0 as that would increase the number of players venturing out there.
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R Dan
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Posted - 2006.01.16 13:51:00 -
[11]
aye, tbh i think something does need to be done to get folks further out of empire.
0.0 is much higher risk, so should really be higher reward too. alot of systems realy dont have anything of intrest, meaning theres only a few that are worth it. if you dont have access to one of those your better off in empire alot of the time :/
Bite me....for i taste good :)
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.16 13:54:00 -
[12]
There is no technical fix to carebearism.
Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
DaRuLe
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Posted - 2006.01.16 14:07:00 -
[13]
Edited by: DaRuLe on 16/01/2006 14:10:54
Edited by: DaRuLe on 16/01/2006 14:08:49
Edited by: DaRuLe on 16/01/2006 14:08:02
Edited by: DaRuLe on 16/01/2006 14:07:37
Originally by: Fester Addams
0.0 systems in reallity range from security rating 0.0 to -1.0.
The systems that are just 0.0 are not much better then most 0.1 systems and are usually not very frequently used by 0.0 alliances.
That would imply that I could go into FD-MLJ easy. But I can't, they're waiting there to kick my bottom.
Your comment gave me an idea though: If those parts of 0.0 are not interesting enough for alliances, why don't those alliances give up that part of space and move their borders further into 0.0 and therefore make way for people who want to give 0.0 a try? I really don't expect pathetic gate gankers (like the ones on 0.4) in 0.0 as they have no where to run if they encounter someone ebil and bigger as them. :P
Nevertheless, I'm not moving into 0.0 and I'm not planning to. The risk versus ISK is just too big for a loner like me. If I had loads of cash I might do it though.. And yes, that load of cash can be found in 0.0.... The irony.. LoL
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Cuebick
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Posted - 2006.01.16 15:31:00 -
[14]
For an individual, moving into 0.0 space is risky business.. Thats where corporations/alliances come in
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Rafein
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Posted - 2006.01.16 15:32:00 -
[15]
But honestly, it's risk vs. reward.
If someone is going to go into 0.0, not just deep 0.0, and 0.0, there is more risks. you can be attacked without the attacker taking a sec hit. There are no sentry guns.
But the rewards are not really better. Still the same Jaspert/Kernite that is in .4
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AlienBreed
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Posted - 2006.01.16 15:56:00 -
[16]
damn i love these posts about how easy it is to get into 0.0 and how we should all be there and if your not your lame
i would love to go to 0.0
i could make a living off the edges in systems that nobody ever goes to, trouble is if anybody sees you there the gank squad drops by "omg you migth be a spy"
if its not that is some solo pirate thats been playing 5 times as long as i have who just cant stand to see me mining my own business
Quote:
The game is actually perfectly fine, it is just the attitudes of the players that is wrong
totally.... all the time so called pirates run round looking for the most defenseless players they can find people will cling to high sec
Quote:
Fine, some people don't like organization and sharing
ah that would be those nice 0.0 alliances, they migth be organised but they certainly dont like sharing
there is literally system after system in 0.0 that sits empty, no stations, no nothing, rats to be killed and all but untouched belts of ore that is rich beyond any hi sec all selfishly hoarded by alliances that will force you out if they catch you there
i am in a small corp and i like it that way
i dont want to join a huge alliance i just want to mind my own busines and play the game with my m8s how i like
in recent months even low sec has become too dangerous in my corner of the galaxy and i find myself being pushed back into hi sec
im not there because i dont want to leave, im trapped there
give me another year and perhaps ill be in a position to defend myself better
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space fox
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Posted - 2006.01.16 16:01:00 -
[17]
0.0 isnt just about the isk - the comunity that so often exitst out there cannot be brought.
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DoctorDanny
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Posted - 2006.01.16 16:24:00 -
[18]
Edited by: DoctorDanny on 16/01/2006 16:25:28
Originally by: DaRuLe
Edited by: DaRuLe on 16/01/2006 14:10:54
Edited by: DaRuLe on 16/01/2006 14:08:49
Edited by: DaRuLe on 16/01/2006 14:08:02
Edited by: DaRuLe on 16/01/2006 14:07:37
Originally by: Fester Addams
0.0 systems in reallity range from security rating 0.0 to -1.0.
The systems that are just 0.0 are not much better then most 0.1 systems and are usually not very frequently used by 0.0 alliances.
That would imply that I could go into FD-MLJ easy. But I can't, they're waiting there to kick my bottom.
Your comment gave me an idea though: If those parts of 0.0 are not interesting enough for alliances, why don't those alliances give up that part of space and move their borders further into 0.0 and therefore make way for people who want to give 0.0 a try? I really don't expect pathetic gate gankers (like the ones on 0.4) in 0.0 as they have no where to run if they encounter someone ebil and bigger as them. :P
Nevertheless, I'm not moving into 0.0 and I'm not planning to. The risk versus ISK is just too big for a loner like me. If I had loads of cash I might do it though.. And yes, that load of cash can be found in 0.0.... The irony.. LoL
Alliances want to claim the bottleneck systems because if they dont claim it the system will be controlled by pirate scumsuckers. It would help a lot if there were (a lot) more entrances into 0.0
As it is now, nearly all the traffic entering Syndicate region (and the outlying regions behind it) has to come through pf-346 or MHC. Guess where you find the pirates?
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F'nog
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Posted - 2006.01.16 16:29:00 -
[19]
I think some of the Empire border 0.0 areas could use some beefing up of the lower-end highend ore. There's tons of systems I've flown through that are fairly well into 0.0 that don't have anything better than Jaspet-Hemorphite.
There should at least be Spod and the other "worthless" highends in these systems to encourage people to settle them. It may not make "carebears" leave empire, but it will encourage some people to at least colonize the areas. Aside from ISS who's in Catch, for instance?
Originally by: rowbin hod
Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2006.01.16 16:31:00 -
[20]
tbh I think the rare ores and npcs need to be spread out over a wide area. Right now there are so many 0.0 systems that just aren't worth the effort of colonising (except for maybe the rarer moon minerals) and a handful of systems with all the good ore and npcs.
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James Lyrus
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Posted - 2006.01.16 16:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Rafein
But honestly, it's risk vs. reward.
If someone is going to go into 0.0, not just deep 0.0, and 0.0, there is more risks. you can be attacked without the attacker taking a sec hit. There are no sentry guns.
But the rewards are not really better. Still the same Jaspert/Kernite that is in .4
Sometimes not even that. I can name a few 0.0 constellations where the best you get is kernite, which can be mined in highsec empire with impugnity.
Always wondered if that was a bug or something. No, not every 0.0 should have arkonor, but IMO should at least be a _little_ better than you'd find in a 0.5 in an adjacent region.
--
We are recruiting
Carriers on sale |
Grez
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Posted - 2006.01.16 16:38:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Har Ganeth
Outposts FTW... if there's not a NPC station nearby... build a station.
^
MSN: [email protected]
Corp: www.ravenwarriors.com |
Braaage
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Posted - 2006.01.16 16:45:00 -
[23]
The ONLY way to spread players out more is to push "safe" space into 0.0 more and make empire larger.
Open up Jove space and make it all 1.0 systems 
___________________________________________
http://www.eve-tutor.com
Picture based tutorial site for EVE-Online |
Darwinia
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Posted - 2006.01.16 16:51:00 -
[24]
Originally by: AlienBreed
damn i love these posts ...
... defend myself better
Alliances don't want individuals in their space, who might or might not be a spy, or might or might not shoot the lone hauler. Well, big surprise there. Being 0.0 is not a given right, it's something you fight or pay for.
Try some diplomacy and palm greasing, you'll find an alliance that will allow you to set up a POS in their space and make what you pay several times over with high-end mining.
Extortion you say? They fight to be able to live there in (very relative) peace and lose ships and money every day... the average wallet of a 0.0 dweller is far thinner than that of an empire citizen.. sharing has nothing to do with it.
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AlienBreed
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Posted - 2006.01.16 17:10:00 -
[25]
we have attempted to bargin or buy mining and ratting rights from alliances b4 and they just dont want to know
as for a POS ? no way they gonna let you
the thing about being a spy is a bs excuse to shoot, i mean a 1 day noob ina shuttle migth be a bit iffy but really whos more likely to a be a spy ? a guy in mining corp or the guy they didnt see in the covert ops ship ?
to the people saying the ore needs to be better i have seen loads of crokite and gneiss, it seems to be extreamly common
the truely rich ores like ark and mercoxit are less common but i still managed to find belts of them without looking very far
maybe they are only common where i am tho i dunno
would love to mine a bit of gneiss
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Andrue
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Posted - 2006.01.16 18:24:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Nah, he means the part where only deep 0.0 systems tend to have high end ores, and where systems close to npc stations tend to have none of them no matter how deep into 0.0 they are.
Imo, that's ok. There's more then ebnough high ends in space for all of us so far. It would be a grand waste if CCP would just put in more of them when there finally seems to be a poswsibility that we'll need to compete for them for real after two whole years of population growth.
Yup - not forgetting of course that the high-end mins are used in smaller amounts than the others. IOW from a manufacturing POV it doesn't make sense to have high-end ores as readily available as low-end ores. They wouldn't be high-end any longer 
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(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Andrue
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Posted - 2006.01.16 18:27:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Andrue on 16/01/2006 18:31:37
Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan
CCP gave us a huge sandbox full of toys to play with, but some people choose to sit inside and stare at the wall all day, occationally looking out the window and think "I don't wanna go and play with the other kids, what if someone takes the toy I want to play with...". God, this kind of passiveness makes me wanna punch pandas on the chin. Take advantage of everything the game has to offer, citizens of Jita, Oursulaert and the equals. Life and subscription time is too short to waste on nothing. I believe it was written in the prime fiction of Eve that "the appetite for nothing consumes the world". Think about it.
What you say is essential correct but TBH it shouldn't come as a surprise to any student of human pyschology. As a species we wouldn't have got where we are today if everyone craved excitement. We evolved so that the vast majority of us are content to just amble along doing the mundane stuff.
Even in traditional shoot-em 'ups and fantasy race games I bet more players opt for the easy but slower route when they have the choice. It just isn't normal for a human to want to stick their neck out and dice with death t every opportunity. That might also be why our ability to understand the laws of probability is so poor. If we could see all the risks we were taking all the time most of us would be gibbering wrecks.
--
(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Andrue
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Posted - 2006.01.16 18:30:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Braaage
The ONLY way to spread players out more is to push "safe" space into 0.0 more and make empire larger.
Open up Jove space and make it all 1.0 systems
What 0.0 needs is infrastructure. The consequences of losing ship and equipment in terms of lost game play are the issue here. Lose a ship in Empire and you go to the market and get a new one and equipment within half an hour.
Lose a ship in 0.0 and unless you happen to be part of a well organised alliance you will probably have to wait at least a day. Chances are there's nothing else you can do for that day either.
--
(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Filan
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Posted - 2006.01.16 18:36:00 -
[29]
someone goes into a .4 system and gets gate ganked they will only think 0.0 is even worse.
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Wendat Huron
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Posted - 2006.01.16 20:11:00 -
[30]
It makes little sense that all the high end spawns of pirates, ore and good moons can be found in the same few systems with the rest of the lot being worthless by comparison, sliding scales anyone?
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