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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
lightstorm
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Posted - 2006.01.16 21:38:00 -
[1]
The use of wcs during combat is a widespread phenomenon in the pvp world of eve.
But does this, makes the game more fun to play? In my opinion totaly the opposite.
For example I attack a ship, ship warps away due to the fact of having wcs fitted.
The ship docks up or gets to a safe spot. Quite frequently the smack talk starts with something like: "Lightstorm are you a noob couldn't you get me.... ha ha ha".
I don't care about the smack talk, something which can't be avoided by ccp, but fitting wcs can be changed by ccp. People have been and still are stacking wcs before they enter the combat arena, because ccp found it not necessary to change it.
Another example: a week ago we were with 3 ships in a 0.4 system waiting for 2 pirates , we found out that also another group was searching for those pirates. Both groups were potential targets for us. It came to a fight at a planet between those two groups, and we decided to warp in and join the fight as a third party. I called the megathron primary target and saw that group A had the upper hand and was about to kill group B (the pirates), which they succeeded in. We thought we had the Megathron nailed, the rest of group A warped of, the ship had 10% armor left and had 3 warpscramblers on him, but to our surprise he managed to warp away. WCS FTW.......... it's kinda making me sick. So group A can kill group B, only when group A gets into trouble they can safely warp away. My question is: does the eve community and ccp finds it fair that group B which have fought bravely an outnumbered and outgunned fight gets killed and group A can warp out anytime because they have stacked wcs.
It's my opinion that stacking wcs kills the fun in having small or medium fleet battles. So in the pvp arena in eve it comes down to, ganking people in "larger" numbers so he has enough scramblers on him, countering the wcs, or large fleet battles, no time to warp away.
A suggestion for the wcs problem: when you have fitted wcs you are setup for travelling you cannot fit/ activate highslot items. When you have fitted guns, etc you are able to defend yourself. If you don't want harm comes your way, warpout before you get warpscrambled.
Would like to close with the wise words of DrunkenOne: Waiting for a better tomorrow.
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Siigari Kitawa
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Posted - 2006.01.16 21:41:00 -
[2]
OMGosh people sacrificing their lowslots to SURVIVE?!!!?! I NEVER!
_________
roflfest 2006 - be there
Please reduce the size of your signature graphic to be below 24,000 bytes - Jacques |
Kilo Paskaa
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Posted - 2006.01.16 21:45:00 -
[3]
Too complicated, just put stacking penalty to wcs. 
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You have right to slap owner of this message when he makes spelling mistakes. |
lofty29
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Posted - 2006.01.16 21:45:00 -
[4]
As annoying as WCS's are, I disagree. They are a part of eve, and solo PVP (which isnt what an MMO is about  ) shouldnt always be successful. Group up with some freinds if you want to lock down the annoying carebears with WCS's, such as Murder Of Crows 
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Hellraiza666
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Posted - 2006.01.16 21:50:00 -
[5]
I had an argument with a corp member last night, about stabs in combat, he fitted 2 stabs on everything, inlucding assault frigs, so i asked him about it. My argument was that fitting stabs meant that u aim to run, which is wat pvp ISNT about and SHOULD NEVER be about, if u want to pvp, u should be in it to win, to the death.
Im all for a WCS nerf
--------------------------------------------
In War There Are No Runners Up...
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Sharies
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Posted - 2006.01.16 21:51:00 -
[6]
Just because you don't come with enough people to lock some one down is your problem. Try looking at getting an interdictor doesn't matter how many WCS you put on you cant warp out of those bubbles. Next time try a different tactic other then the whine tactic.
http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sf/type/2/moonshade.png
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.01.16 21:54:00 -
[7]
Put penalties to using WCS. Make all dmg reduced by 10% per WCS.
This argument of using WCS is valid. It is part of the game and so does logging off/on in combat. Lame but still, ppl annoying do it.
 
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
omgwtfyarrbbq
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Posted - 2006.01.16 21:54:00 -
[8]
I agree. My freind got locked down by an interdicator the other day. It webbed him and launched a single bubble, then proceded to bbq his malediction. Evil thing, the eris 
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.01.16 21:54:00 -
[9]
all wcs does is encourage big blobs to hunt down smaller targets, as it's impossible to keep someone in place with a single ship unles he devotes his entire midslot layout to scramblers. Even 2 ships will have a hard time if they want to fit something useful in those other mids.
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lofty29
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Posted - 2006.01.16 21:56:00 -
[10]
But if they did that, murder of crows wouldnt be able to kill anyone 
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Kashkavien
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Posted - 2006.01.16 21:57:00 -
[11]
So it's okay to stack jammers/scramblers etc but not WCS?
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Suya
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Posted - 2006.01.16 21:57:00 -
[12]
this post deservse this reply
Originally by Vendrin
-------
Budlight Presents- Real Men of Genius!
Today we salute YOU, Mr. really annoying whiner man!(Mr. Really annoying whiner man)
Only YOU can fully appreciate the mind-blowing tragedy that it would be if you quit the game due to some rule or aspect that you think is stupid.(They can't stand the thought of losing you !!)
While others are too preoccupied with things like real life, you take your anger directly to the place where it will make the absolute least possible impact: An Internet discussion forum.(Loggin' on now!)
Your unique eye for logic allows you to sling turds of doom every which way, and then brag about how you were RIGHT as soon as one of the pieces sticks to the wall - regardless of how many dozens fell limply to the floor before that.(See I told you sooooooo!!)
And if some other idiot player has the gall to not be as incensed as you are, you unleash your fury down upon him with all the tenacity and mercilessness of a rabid pit bull with a tender buttock locked in its jaw (Total anonymity!)
So keep clicking away, oh Marauder of the Mousepad. Because when the results you so desire finally come about years from now, you can say it was because YOU demanded it."
(Mr. Really annoying whiner man!)
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ParMizaN
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Posted - 2006.01.16 21:59:00 -
[13]
my view
Phenomena of ironies, cast the litany aside
How intelligible, blessed be the forgetful |
Kashkavien
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Posted - 2006.01.16 22:00:00 -
[14]
 Originally by: ParMizaN
my view
Erm, what if I don't like kittens?
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Vandar Broheem
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Posted - 2006.01.16 22:01:00 -
[15]
I guess we're supposed to just hand our ships over willingly to the first agressive person we see.
I'll agree on a stacking penalty for WCS ONLY if the disruptors also get a stacking penalty and they completely do away with disruptors that have 2 or more strength (or add WCS with 2 or more strength).
I would never agree on disabling high-slots just because you have WCS fitted.
One thing, however, I think should be done since the description has "When activated..." in it, the WCS should be an active module not passive.
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Sochin
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Posted - 2006.01.16 22:01:00 -
[16]
WCS need to be highslot mods, or at least have severe anti-offensive/defensive penalties so it is impractical for people to fit more then one of them with intent to pvp.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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Sharies
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Posted - 2006.01.16 22:01:00 -
[17]
They should also make it so that you can't stack guns. Having all those guns makes battles way too short. Or at least put a penalty on having multiple guns.
http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sf/type/2/moonshade.png
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Sharies
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Posted - 2006.01.16 22:04:00 -
[18]
WCS are thier own penalty instead of fitting stuff to increase your damage or armor to last longer in a fight you've opted to retreat which last time I checked is a valid military tactic.
http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sf/type/2/moonshade.png
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Brisi
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Posted - 2006.01.16 22:05:00 -
[19]
Tbh, I only fit stabs on my ships when ferrying them through dangerous waters. That wouldn't change for me if they made them active high-slot modules.
The problem in wcs's, is that they can be used in combat the way they are (BE ravens anyone?) and thus making some ships impossible to destroy.
Make them an active high-slot module. Would fix most of the problems in my honest opinion.
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Hellraiza666
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Posted - 2006.01.16 22:05:00 -
[20]
if u dont want to lose ur ship to ppl then dont fight, wcs isnt the solution.
WCS shud be for transporting only, therefore the penalty shud be combat based, mayb dmg reduction.
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In War There Are No Runners Up...
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Slink Grinsdikild
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Posted - 2006.01.16 22:06:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
OMGosh people sacrificing their lowslots to SURVIVE?!!!?! I NEVER!
If you're going to become a Moderator with reading comprehension like that, god help us all.
He's talking about people using WCS in COMBAT. This has zero to do with travel setups, or avoiding PvP.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.01.16 22:07:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Slink Grinsdikild
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
OMGosh people sacrificing their lowslots to SURVIVE?!!!?! I NEVER!
If you're going to become a Moderator with reading comprehension like that, god help us all.
He's talking about people using WCS in COMBAT. This has zero to do with travel setups, or avoiding PvP.
Think if he becomes a moderator, we will probably never know who is the new guy. The wonders of MMOs.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Kalixa Hihro
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Posted - 2006.01.16 22:08:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Kalixa Hihro on 16/01/2006 22:12:00
Originally by: lightstorm
The use of wcs during combat is a widespread phenomenon in the pvp world of eve.
Yea, it's pretty retarded and there are 3 reasons:
1. If you fill your lows with wcs, you can't possibly optimize your ship for combat.
2. If your ship isn't optimized for combat, you won't win very much, you'll run as the other person outdamages you since they have armor hardeners on instead of wcs, or [insert useful component here].
3. If you don't win very much, and 99% of fights with you never have a winner and a loser, why bother? You are just wasting everyone's ammo.
The only combat ships that should have a wcs fitted is a battleship that can afford the one or two low slots, and doesn't feel like getting held down by an inty for 20-30 minutes while all his friends arrive. Fitting none is as retarded as fitting 7 of them on a combat battleship. If you are out by yourself with no support and get hit by 2-3 intys, you should die, however one 5-15m inty should not be able to cause the death of a 200m battleship IMHO.
Anyone that flys a ship full of wcs anywhere but in a travel setup, deserves to be podkilled over and over by gank squads fitted with scramblers for being a sissie and wasting everyone's ammo.
If you are going out to look for a fight, fight FFS. Hauling or getting a battleship/cruiser/battlecruiser out to 0.0 is another story. There the travel setup rule applies.
I don't think wcs should be changed at all. It'd be better to simply ignore known sissies that wcs out all the time. If they won't give you a fight, don't give them one ; ) Alternatively when you find one of these sissies, get an inty fleet together and go find them, hold them down, and kick them with a real fighting ship.
-Kal
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Vandar Broheem
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Posted - 2006.01.16 22:09:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sharies
WCS are thier own penalty instead of fitting stuff to increase your damage or armor to last longer in a fight you've opted to retreat which last time I checked is a valid military tactic.
Yeah just because all the NPC's stick around till you blow them apart doesn't mean a real person with a modest amount of intelligence is supposed to act the same way.
You want easy kills go NPC they don't run at all. You want to PvP then get used to the fact that people use tactics to help them win or help them survive. Only a pure idiot jumps into a fight without an escape plan of some kind.
Instead of whinning about them group up, or learn better tactics yourself. WCS are certainly not the ultimate answer in a fight and certainly don't guarantee you'll get away. It just gives you a chance to get away, much better chance against those not prepared properly to fight ships with them.
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Dukath
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Posted - 2006.01.16 22:10:00 -
[25]
The problem is not warp core stabs, while i'd rather have chance based scrambling with stabs there is a much bigger problem.
The problem is bookmarks. Its the bookmarks that deny you the chase. Before bookmarks existed a battle could move from one place to another, your target warps out? Look where he is going and follow. At one point in the beta you could even see WHERE he was going.
Would anyone really complain about warp core stabilisers if you actually had a way to chase the target? So i say: fix bookmarks to anchored objects and make sure all anchorable objects can be scanned down with probes. That would remove all non traceable safespots. People can still get away if the hunters warp to a wrong planet or moon, but at least there would be a chance, and more importantly a chase. Right now as soon as he gets out once its over.
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Sharies
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Posted - 2006.01.16 22:13:00 -
[26]
I don't really agree with the bookmarks thing but I do agree there should be a way to track ships to SS faster. Maybe some sort of homing beacon you can launch at some one which allows you to follow them for awhile.
http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sf/type/2/moonshade.png
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Ayla Vanir
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Posted - 2006.01.16 22:14:00 -
[27]
Oh look, another nerf WCS thread. Someone is having a hard time scrambling people that don't want to fight and are willing to prepare their ships to achieve their goal.
The onus is on the aggressors to be prepared, not the other way around. If the defender sacrifices low slots to stack WCS and get away more reliably, they're already nerfing themselves - and perhaps that should be rethought, as a defender shouldn't have to nerf themselves to have a chance to avoid combat.
It seems to me, at least from the volume of posts about nerfing WCS, there's plenty of people that would like to fight to the death (as mentioned in another response). Maybe they can enter into some kind of combat arena to fight each other - because that's what they're looking for. Unless they're just looking for easy marks.
Assuming nothing else changes, WCS is fine as it is. If CCP develops the propulsion aspects of ships further (as shown in their attributes tab of the Show Info UI on any ship) to account for propulsion drive strength for example, then both scramblers and stabs would need to change in-line with that development.
Escrow Market Revamp
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Rift Scorn
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Posted - 2006.01.16 22:14:00 -
[28]
warp core stabs do gimp your capability in PvP. Drastically.
When i PvP its always with a win all/loose all mentality. Either i kill everything, loose horrifically and get the egg outta there, or get sent on an express route to my nearest vat.
other's don't have that mentality, they want to try and get ganks/Kills with the safety that they can get out of there. Yet, by fitting stabs you are loosing much needed tank/ECCM/etc, etc capability that increase your chance of winning. If you fit stabs even if you don't realise it, you're pretty much setting yourself up to loose. I hate the damn things myself, but lets face it, they'll never get taken out of the game of gimped. And as for the moron that suggested that the stacking penalty on disruptors should take place, if there was a stacking penalty on WCS, think about it ..... no stabs = no need to have to slap -6 on an inty
Your friendly clone activation expert, free of service to the eve community since '03! |
Siigari Kitawa
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Posted - 2006.01.16 22:15:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Slink Grinsdikild
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
OMGosh people sacrificing their lowslots to SURVIVE?!!!?! I NEVER!
If you're going to become a Moderator with reading comprehension like that, god help us all.
He's talking about people using WCS in COMBAT. This has zero to do with travel setups, or avoiding PvP.
Don't roll your eyes at me. What do you think I meant when I said "sacrificing lowslots" that inferred there could be things BETTER USED THERE to survive during a fight?
omg
_________
roflfest 2006 - be there
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super4lt
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Posted - 2006.01.16 22:16:00 -
[30]
Jesus another whine
Super4lt is here to let yall know what time it is
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