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Milkminer
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Posted - 2006.01.18 14:10:00 -
[1]
Im at work and bored, and as many of u will know u get strange thoughts...
One of which was when I tried to tell the difference between PvP and Grieffing.
So please enlighten me to the lines which define them and where one becomes the other.
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hired goon
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Posted - 2006.01.18 14:13:00 -
[2]
If you own a capcharger II BPO that makes you a griefer. -omg-
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Exile Devaltos
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Posted - 2006.01.18 14:13:00 -
[3]
Griefing to me is when a player follows you around all day, all week or all month, just killing you for no reason other than spite.
Not that its ever happened to me
Originally by: Wrangler Thats odd, I always drink after dealing with you people..
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Antoinette Civari
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Posted - 2006.01.18 14:14:00 -
[4]
There is no such thing as 'griefing' in eve.
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Fooball
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Posted - 2006.01.18 14:15:00 -
[5]
For instance something targeted, constant, systematic. If I for instance use locator service to find and hit and hit and hit certain target..
Or if there's no sane reason. Such as killing potential spies or killing for the loot.. But it's easy to start shouting about this. I mean the extreme cases, not anything specific. There are such too.
Most of the "OMGWTFGRIEFER!!!" whines I have seen have not been about griefing at all. If those poor carebears whining really got griefed, lol they'd know the difference.
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Rubra
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Posted - 2006.01.18 14:16:00 -
[6]
Ask Parallux.
Seriously though, there is no such thing as griefing imo. You either look in local to see if a pirate/enemy corp is in-system or you don't. If you don't, you've set yourself up to zapped/podded.
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Arnt
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Posted - 2006.01.18 14:23:00 -
[7]
PvP becomes griefing when the only thing that motivates you it just the amount of harm you can do, without any other reason. When at war with someone you have a good reason to harm him, when pirating you want ISK, when camping you want to forbid access to a zone, etc...
As such the real exemples of griefing are quite rare. But there are some, like the guys labelling cargo containers "free stuff" in newbie system in order to blow up helpless newbs just for the fun of it.
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Tarack
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Posted - 2006.01.18 14:29:00 -
[8]
What Hired Goon said ...
WTS: 1 Ex-wife, slightly used. Fully equiped, includes, My house, my car, my dog and my new ex girlfriend................. |
Wesley Harding
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Posted - 2006.01.18 14:37:00 -
[9]
Every low sec. pirate with a carebear alt is a griefer. They don't need to do piracy for the money, that's what the alt is for. They just do it for the killboards. And the prices they charge just so they don't shoot you, that's known as extortion.
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Cypherous
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Posted - 2006.01.18 14:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Wesley Harding Every low sec. pirate with a carebear alt is a griefer. They don't need to do piracy for the money, that's what the alt is for. They just do it for the killboards. And the prices they charge just so they don't shoot you, that's known as extortion.
Actually its called good business, if you dont want to die then you pay, if you dont pay you run the risk of being shot, personally i really hope the insta nerf comes and then there will be none of this insta jumping past me camping crap
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Marcus Tedric
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Posted - 2006.01.18 14:41:00 -
[11]
If you're not letting someone play the game and they, or their Corp, have done nothing to warrant it at all - ie there's no possible sane reason for it.....
Then it's grief. If all they can think to do is not play - then it's grief.
Funnily enough, harshly showing very new players what can happen if they take from a jetcan isn't grief (because I'm sure they'll learn a lesson the hard way) - it's just very, very lame.
Pirates and Blackmailers need to be able to encourage an environment where they can ply their trade. That makes it more interesting for everyone. NPC rats are just there to teach you how to possibly start surviving, or even taking on, Player Pirates.
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Andrue
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Posted - 2006.01.18 14:50:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Andrue on 18/01/2006 14:51:22
Originally by: Exile Devaltos Griefing to me is when a player follows you around all day, all week or all month, just killing you for no reason other than spite.
Not that its ever happened to me
It's a judgement call but generally I would class it as griefing if the person doing it has modified his play style beyond what would be considered normal in order to repeatedly pursue their victim. -- (Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Wolfgang Jager
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Posted - 2006.01.18 14:58:00 -
[13]
While I am unsure of the specifics of Eve, my general experience from other pvp mmos would lead me to explain it as following:
"Greifing" is the use of loopholes or bugs in the game code to destroy the game play experience of another player who was not expecting/consenting to the action.
Examples from other games include things like exploiting zone geometry to get into supposedly "safe" newbie areas and p-killing, using bad pathing/mob aggro code to "train" people, using bugs in flagging systems to attack people in pvp while remaining unattackable - etc.
Sadly the usage of the term has spread and many try to use it, inappropriately, to describe any form of hostile behavior. Ultimately however, any form of combat specifically intended and allowed by the game system cannot be properly considered "griefing".
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Kurren
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Posted - 2006.01.18 14:58:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Wesley Harding Every low sec. pirate with a carebear alt is a griefer. They don't need to do piracy for the money, that's what the alt is for. They just do it for the killboards. And the prices they charge just so they don't shoot you, that's known as extortion.
Extortion is not griefing. Extortion is a GREAT way to make fast money!
Griefing is more along the lines of harassment in Eve. PvP is generally only called griefing because teh nub wants teh ship back. *************************************************
Sobakai Resources, here for you! |
Wesley Harding
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Posted - 2006.01.18 15:09:00 -
[15]
Like I said, Pirates have carebear alts they use for mission running. They don't need money. They just want killmails.
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Sanaen Eydanwadh
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Posted - 2006.01.18 15:17:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Wesley Harding Like I said, Pirates have carebear alts they use for mission running. They don't need money. They just want killmails.
Sad but true. Conclusion: griefing = having an alt.
(I'm kidding ofc don't shoot !)
(well... or maybe I'm not )
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Drew Peacock
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Posted - 2006.01.18 15:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Antoinette Civari There is no such thing as 'griefing' in eve.
You are wrong, the definition of grief play is:
A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others' lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize or fight other players.
Guess where I got that from?
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ErrorS
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Posted - 2006.01.18 15:24:00 -
[18]
a griefer is that guy who sits in newb space, drops a can, tells newbs he's giving them stuff and then kills them.
there's a very thin line between griefing and normal pvp in this game. Pirates cause a lot of grief but they're just playing the game, their role.. ________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
Milkminer
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Posted - 2006.01.18 15:30:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Wolfgang Jager
Examples from other games include things like exploiting zone geometry to get into supposedly "safe" newbie areas and p-killing
Sounds like u use to play DAoC heh
I dont class abusing game bugs as grieffing, its just another means of doing so imo. But this thread is to find out we all think of grieffing and the bounderies between "PvP and Grieffing", thats if theres a boundery, some ingame would say there wasnt, others would say Honour the bases of PvP.
What do u think? Is honour part of PvP, a set of "old school" rules layed down long ago? or is winning everything by any means?
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Kraven Kor
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Posted - 2006.01.18 15:38:00 -
[20]
The difference between griefing and PVP?
PVP is where a player competes with another player.
Griefing is where a player whines about PVP.
No, but seriously, "griefing is in the eye of the beholder." I doubt anyone could truly define the difference, though most everyone I'm sure can agree on extreme cases.
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Wesley Harding
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Posted - 2006.01.18 15:39:00 -
[21]
Low sec. pirates with -5 or more standings bypass their standings hits with empire alts. Doing this they have all the benefits of an empire goer, plus they have an additional source of revenue. As a result they can ask for huge sums of ISK to not shoot someone and even after the transfer you only have their word on whether or not they'll still kill you for the mail. Even if they don't recieve any money, or a decently fitted kill, who cares? The alt is still there making tons of money.
If they were to play the game as it has been laid out, they'd have to get someone with better standings to help them when they needed something or they'd have to treat empire space as everyone has to treat their space.
Though if I'm not mistaken, doesn't Concord and NPCs target people with low sec. ratings? If so, perhaps making it so Concord doesn't interfere with a player engaging a low sec. player in Empire would be a good idea. Make Empire for rats as low sec is for bears.
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Butter Dog
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Posted - 2006.01.18 15:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Fooball
Or if there's no sane reason. Such as killing potential spies or killing for the loot.. But it's easy to start shouting about this. I mean the extreme cases, not anything specific. There are such too.
I would say killing a spy, or killing for the loot, are both very good reasons for some PvP :)
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2006.01.18 15:46:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Arnt PvP becomes griefing when the only thing that motivates you it just the amount of harm you can do, without any other reason. When at war with someone you have a good reason to harm him, when pirating you want ISK, when camping you want to forbid access to a zone, etc...
As such the real exemples of griefing are quite rare. But there are some, like the guys labelling cargo containers "free stuff" in newbie system in order to blow up helpless newbs just for the fun of it.
Bingo. If your entire motivation is just to be an asshat, you're a griefer. ___
The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2006.01.18 15:49:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kraven Kor The difference between griefing and PVP?
PVP is where a player competes with another player.
Griefing is where a player whines about PVP.
No, but seriously, "griefing is in the eye of the beholder." I doubt anyone could truly define the difference, though most everyone I'm sure can agree on extreme cases.
No, griefing isn't decided by the victim, especially in EVE. Remember - destroying somebody in EVE by following them around everywhere and attacking the constantly is not neccessarily griefing. It depends on the motivation of the attacker. ___
The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
babyblue
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Posted - 2006.01.18 15:49:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Originally by: Arnt PvP becomes griefing when the only thing that motivates you it just the amount of harm you can do, without any other reason. When at war with someone you have a good reason to harm him, when pirating you want ISK, when camping you want to forbid access to a zone, etc...
As such the real exemples of griefing are quite rare. But there are some, like the guys labelling cargo containers "free stuff" in newbie system in order to blow up helpless newbs just for the fun of it.
Bingo. If your entire motivation is just to be an asshat, you're a griefer.
I agree with Nero, for the first time ever .
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csebal
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Posted - 2006.01.18 15:50:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Drew Peacock
Originally by: Antoinette Civari There is no such thing as 'griefing' in eve.
You are wrong, the definition of grief play is:
A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others' lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize or fight other players.
Guess where I got that from?
Well, based on that definition almost all PvPers are griefing, as "they devote much of their time to making others' lives miserable", plus since they find this in fact entertaining, they do qualify for the next condition: "in a large part deriving their enjoyment of the game from these activities".
Well, that definition is obviously flawed. In my book, there are two conditions to classify for griefing:
1) You must either have no other goal / agenda than the simple destructive 'kill/ruin everything' behind your actions.
2) You consistently pick targets well below your own level, enjoying the helpless position of those weaker than you.
Going strictly be the definition of word grief however, almost everything in EVE is griefing, as what is good for you is 'by the nature of the game' bad for somebody else. Thats why it is hard to talk about griefing in relation to EVE. My post does not represent the general or official opinion of HUN corp, or The Forsaken Empire. No matter what YOU believe. |
Marshal Dylin
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Posted - 2006.01.18 15:52:00 -
[27]
when i played wow, there was this group of players, that would find some random target, and purposly greif them, some of them would join the corp of the target, others wouldnot, some of there were from the other pvp faction. basicly, everything wrong you can do they did, scamming,corpsecamping,spreading rumors(they did this one alot, ruined alot of players ingame lives). One of there other methods was to get others from there griefer group to join in any groups this target was in and steal all of their loot, kills, train mobs on them,ect.ect,ect. Now all of this goes on for months, theyll keep it up till a.they get bored and stop, or b. the target quits.
So ya that is griefting.
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MuffinsRevenger
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Posted - 2006.01.18 16:15:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Milkminer Im at work and bored, and as many of u will know u get strange thoughts...
One of which was when I tried to tell the difference between PvP and Grieffing.
So please enlighten me to the lines which define them and where one becomes the other.
PVP is when all the involved actualy wan't to fight
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.01.18 16:29:00 -
[29]
In my view, griefing is killing for no reason but to kill. Pirates kill for profit, alliances kill for territory. Killing when it gains you nothing but a kill is griefing.
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TheMoog
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Posted - 2006.01.18 16:37:00 -
[30]
Originally by: MuffinsRevenger
Originally by: Milkminer Im at work and bored, and as many of u will know u get strange thoughts...
One of which was when I tried to tell the difference between PvP and Grieffing.
So please enlighten me to the lines which define them and where one becomes the other.
PVP is when all the involved actualy wan't to fight
I think you're on the wrong forum, this isn't WoW, this is EvE. EvE IS pvp, be it combat, economy, politics, manufacturing, etc...
If you don't want to pvp, by definition, don't play Eve, or stay docked.
As for grief, I would say there's not a lot in the game, maybe the can flagging noob abuse... maybe |
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