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With apologies to the pirates out there, we call it YARRRDWARE

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
dazedandconfused	Posted - 2006.01.21 14:51:00 - [61] I ran one of the old hamsters over with my bike, sorry . The new hamsters sound cool, thanks!
Karx	Posted - 2006.01.21 16:11:00 - [62] So three times the power means these hamsters have 3x longer teeth than the old hamsters? Cool. But seriously: OMGZoRC(P!sTeHP\/\/nZ0r!
Saeris Tal'Urduar	Posted - 2006.01.21 17:20:00 - [63] Edited by: Saeris Tal''Urduar on 21/01/2006 17:21:04 Originally by: Kuolematon I'm amazed that CCP has money to buy all this **** .. err stuff even they have only below 100k people paying. I read that as sarcasm But also figure monthly subscription prices x3 for about 1/2 the customer base. And with a growing player base thats alot of money coming in. Which if Oveur sees this; What percentage of your customer base subscribes in 3 month or longer blocks. I have a feeling its easily better than 1/2. I also wonder how that compairs to other MMOs. (and if you can use those numbers to see how dedicated your player base is?) Me I have 2 accounts that I do the 3 month discount on both.
Kuolematon	Posted - 2006.01.21 17:28:00 - [64] Originally by: Saeris Tal'Urduar I read that as sarcasm Me I have 2 accounts that I do the 3 month discount on both. It actually wasn't one .. and yes I do have 2 accounts and I pay 'em in 3 month plan. Not EVE related, removed. -Capsicum <- Even mods hate my paint sig :(
Trek	Posted - 2006.01.21 17:53:00 - [65] Originally by: Oveur The new Tranquility consists of 70 x IBM LS20 AMD Opteron Blades, each Blade sporting two 2.4 GHz 64-bit Opteron processors with 2-4 GB of RAM, depending on application. That's a 140 CPUs, a full replacement of the current 140 Intel XEON 2.8 GHz CPUs. All to run EVE. Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall CCP saying that the available memory for user processes were one of the larger problems with the current hardware. If so, how is halving the number of machines going to help with that? Sounds to me like it would make it worse! --- My other ship is a Reaper

Oveur	Posted - 2006.01.21 18:10:00 - [66] Originally by: Trek Originally by: Oveur The new Tranquility consists of 70 x IBM LS20 AMD Opteron Blades, each Blade sporting two 2.4 GHz 64-bit Opteron processors with 2-4 GB of RAM, depending on application. That's a 140 CPUs, a full replacement of the current 140 Intel XEON 2.8 GHz CPUs. All to run EVE. Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall CCP saying that the available memory for user processes were one of the larger problems with the current hardware. If so, how is halving the number of machines going to help with that? Sounds to me like it would make it worse! It's actually the exact same number of machines and processors. Senior Producer EVE Online


Oveur	Posted - 2006.01.21 18:12:00 - [67] Originally by: Saeris Tal'Urduar Edited by: Saeris Tal''Urduar on 21/01/2006 17:21:04 Originally by: Kuolematon I'm amazed that CCP has money to buy all this **** .. err stuff even they have only below 100k people paying. I read that as sarcasm But also figure monthly subscription prices x3 for about 1/2 the customer base. And with a growing player base thats alot of money coming in. Which if Oveur sees this; What percentage of your customer base subscribes in 3 month or longer blocks. I have a feeling its easily better than 1/2. I also wonder how that compairs to other MMOs. (and if you can use those numbers to see how dedicated your player base is?) Me I have 2 accounts that I do the 3 month discount on both. I don't have the latest numbers here at home, iirc at least 80% are buying 1 month subscriptions. Senior Producer EVE Online

Trek	Posted - 2006.01.21 18:19:00 - [68] Originally by: Oveur Originally by: Trek Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall CCP saying that the available memory for user processes were one of the larger problems with the current hardware. If so, how is halving the number of machines going to help with that? Sounds to me like it would make it worse! It's actually the exact same number of machines and processors. My bad, I see now after a second careful read that the current setup is dual Xeons... Makes a lot more sense then! Thanks for clearing it up! Cheers! --- My other ship is a Reaper
Lori Carlyle	Posted - 2006.01.21 18:41:00 - [69] "Up to 8GB of DDR1 memory" DDR 1 I'm prayin it's not as bad as it sounds. 400x120@24000 bytes max please. -Capsicum
Expert Newbie	Posted - 2006.01.21 20:51:00 - [70] Originally by: Lori Carlyle "Up to 8GB of DDR1 memory" DDR 1 I'm prayin it's not as bad as it sounds. The increase in performance from DDR1 to DDR2 is less than 1%. Don't believe the hype. Is CCP planning to use the old hardware in conjunction with the new hardware or just replace it completely? ----------
keepiru	Posted - 2006.01.21 23:27:00 - [71] Originally by: Expert Newbie Originally by: Lori Carlyle "Up to 8GB of DDR1 memory" DDR 1 I'm prayin it's not as bad as it sounds. The increase in performance from DDR1 to DDR2 is less than 1%. Don't believe the hype. Yup, DDR2 is mostly an intel plan to make up for the pentium 4s shortfalls with really high bandwidth - still doesent manage to though. ------------- Please fix the EW stacking bug, it's a disgrace!
Ituralde	Posted - 2006.01.21 23:49:00 - [72] AFAIK alot of server memory is lower speed than your l337 g4m0r machines at home, so DDR1 makes sense. I also remember something about it running cooler and coming in larger chunks.
TauTut	Posted - 2006.01.22 00:29:00 - [73] I'm really pleased that CCP and the Eve-Online team are so dedicated to maintaining a single instance (excluding the Asian proposal). If the eve system architects have decided that 64 bit blade and extra ramsan is the way to go then fair play. -TT
Fallout2man	Posted - 2006.01.22 03:33:00 - [74] Originally by: Expert Newbie The increase in performance from DDR1 to DDR2 is less than 1%. Don't believe the hype. Is CCP planning to use the old hardware in conjunction with the new hardware or just replace it completely? It depends on what you're doing. DDR1 is good for things that demand low latency, but DDR2's better for bandwidth intensive applications. Of course eventually DDR2 modules will have 2-2-2-5 1T latencies, at which point DDR1 becomes obsolute. That said, I'm really interested in exactly how threading and code paralellization works on eve's server at the moment (as well as why MSSQL was chosen over Oracle or Sysbase for the DB backend.) Oveur, Kieron, anyone?
Toqua	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:17:00 - [75] Edited by: Toqua on 22/01/2006 04:19:22 I do like the new hardware proposal... It will probably be a VERY rough ride to get it running, but ... no pain, no gain... According to the Hardware Choice.... Probably IBM made CCP a good deal. Hell, it's not only a prestige object for CCP, it's also one for IBM... As it's seen, ALL of the serverhardware comes (in some form, and excluding special treats like the RamSan) from IBM... Which makes CCP - besides being a L-Customer for IBM - also a big, big, playfield where they can check out how their sh.. erm... equipment works under REALLY random conditions. Nothing is better to test and get real numbers on performance than roughly 20k people, doing anything they want on the setup... People, we are talking about a development here, NO ONE has tried before... this is ON THE EDGE of the current possible, sometimes leaning VERY WIDE in the realm of impossible.. EVE was always on this edge of the current possible, but switching out the complete hardware in a running, high complex system that EVE is... within 24 hours... you need - sorry for the profanity - BIG BALLS to do this. CCP is handling the development of EVE like the EVE-Inhabitants who have equivalent Balls handle the game. They don't whine and say 'it will not work, it's not possible and we will all die' ... They just do it. And, if it goes down the wrong way, they pick themselfes up and do it again. Until they finally make it. It's a way of life. Some have it, some have it not. It's also a reason, why some people do not like EVE. I pity them. They have not found out that life, per se, is NOT fair. But life ALWAYS finds a way. So, why the hell EVE should be fair, if you can stand up and do it again? (if some things on this post don't make too much sense... it's 5:15am here.... sorry...) T.
Macro Killer013	Posted - 2006.01.22 09:55:00 - [76] Originally by: Ituralde AFAIK alot of server memory is lower speed than your l337 g4m0r machines at home, so DDR1 makes sense. I also remember something about it running cooler and coming in larger chunks. Cooler, longer lasting, and it will be consuming less power. All so important in some thing with demands like this. Remeber if a type of box has a typical failure rate of 1% per year, 70 boxes means a 70% chance of a failure in one year. It also will be ECC. Meaning that there will be an extra byte for every 8 bytes of RAM. Each byte gets what is called a parity bit. This is used to detect and gracefully handle bad RAM. I belive it works out to 128 bytes extra to every 1024 of useable RAM. ECC RAM and the boards that can use it are one of the reasons "real" servers cost a good chunk more than a normal box.
Soulita	Posted - 2006.01.22 12:47:00 - [77] Edited by: Soulita on 22/01/2006 12:50:32 Top 500 supercomputers? Cool machines in there. Check this one out: MareNostrum What a beauty it is, and placed in a church! The right environment for a religious thing like a supercomp Btw, this is europes fastest - ranking 8 in the top 500.
Victor Mason	Posted - 2006.01.22 15:50:00 - [78] I whouldn't like to see the Eletric bill for them server
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2006.01.22 18:03:00 - [79] Originally by: Lori Carlyle "Up to 8GB of DDR1 memory" DDR 1 I'm prayin it's not as bad as it sounds. Are there even any DDR2 boards for the Opteron?
Rabbitgod	Posted - 2006.01.22 21:45:00 - [80] Quote: I did not notice anything said about the database aspect of things - are there separate dbase servers, or how is that set up? The second RAMSAN is for the DB just like the first one. I can wait for something solid state like to come to the home user. holographic memory for the win. Here these will help
Sharcy	Posted - 2006.01.23 09:27:00 - [81] Originally by: Mr Bohoba When will it come ? Don't know about the servers, but I did just reading that devblog... --
GouldFish	Posted - 2006.01.23 11:21:00 - [82] The reason I'm guessing that CCP use MSSQL is due to the fact they are running windows servers. The new versions of which have be deigned to run MSSQL and fast and as well as possable. I'm amazed that no one has pointed out DB2 as an alternative seeing it currently holds the largest DB and the fast DB records.

kieron	Posted - 2006.01.23 12:42:00 - [83] Originally by: Toqua Edited by: Toqua on 22/01/2006 04:19:22 I do like the new hardware proposal... It will probably be a VERY rough ride to get it running, but ... no pain, no gain... According to the Hardware Choice.... Probably IBM made CCP a good deal. Hell, it's not only a prestige object for CCP, it's also one for IBM... As it's seen, ALL of the serverhardware comes (in some form, and excluding special treats like the RamSan) from IBM... Which makes CCP - besides being a L-Customer for IBM - also a big, big, playfield where they can check out how their sh.. erm... equipment works under REALLY random conditions. Nothing is better to test and get real numbers on performance than roughly 20k people, doing anything they want on the setup... People, we are talking about a development here, NO ONE has tried before... this is ON THE EDGE of the current possible, sometimes leaning VERY WIDE in the realm of impossible.. EVE was always on this edge of the current possible, but switching out the complete hardware in a running, high complex system that EVE is... within 24 hours... you need - sorry for the profanity - BIG BALLS to do this. CCP is handling the development of EVE like the EVE-Inhabitants who have equivalent Balls handle the game. They don't whine and say 'it will not work, it's not possible and we will all die' ... They just do it. And, if it goes down the wrong way, they pick themselfes up and do it again. Until they finally make it. It's a way of life. Somebody gets it! Well said. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

Serendipity007	Posted - 2006.01.23 15:11:00 - [84] Move an entire server-cluster of information and setup in 24 hours? An incredible feat if they pull it off. Hmm, I need to buy some more stock of Icelandic Coffee. ^_^ Good luck with the new server! (You are going to need it!)
Cardassius	Posted - 2006.01.23 15:27:00 - [85] They shouldn't do it in 1 day.. They should phase it in. So they can be 100% sure the final setup works as intented. If you do it in 1 try you have so much to test before putting it online that the chance of missing something will be far greater. On second thought.. seeing the new setup.. this might not be an option though.. ASCI Recruiting!
Fergus MacGregor	Posted - 2006.01.23 16:13:00 - [86] Edited by: Fergus MacGregor on 23/01/2006 16:16:02 Please please please please Do a photo-journal diary type thing of the Yarrster installation for us IT types to drool over? please please? WE WANTS PICS Wait... does this mean the hamsters are evolving? Will they take over the world? OMG TEH SKY IS FALLNIG?!!!1111sigmoid(11) Cheers ;)
GouldFish	Posted - 2006.01.23 16:17:00 - [87] Originally by: Cardassius They shouldn't do it in 1 day.. They should phase it in. So they can be 100% sure the final setup works as intented. If you do it in 1 try you have so much to test before putting it online that the chance of missing something will be far greater. On second thought.. seeing the new setup.. this might not be an option though.. After looking at what is changing (eg the physcal location of the cluster) it's an all or nothing job. but it should be they can get the software and hardware setup before hand. then it's a case of moving the RAMSAN and the the DB and seeing if the system is running right.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.01.23 17:53:00 - [88] WoW. Impressive. CCP. Just a few questions because I may have misunderstood something. 1. It is a two sockets blade with two single core 64-bit CPUs each? 2. Wouldnt the bottleneck be at the memory if the blades are using 2GB to 4GB each (depending on application)? Ta. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Decairn	Posted - 2006.01.23 17:54:00 - [89] What's the reason behind another RAMSAN - capacity or moving solid-state disks to RAM that were left out on the previous install of RAMSAN? --Decairn
Dafydd Merc	Posted - 2006.01.23 21:40:00 - [90] Originally by: Vult I was referring to possibly the option of a 64 bit client. I'm not exactly an expert on 64 bit and 32 bit stuff, so hopefully someone can help this one out... can 64 bit and 32 bit clients work off the same server? If so, why not make 2 clients? ......wait, I think I answered my own question..... Patch day comes.... 2 patches have to be applied. Eww... Ok, for those who are interested in a little bit of information on 64-bit servers, clients, and the kitchen sink. Hardware - 64bit hardware essentially allows a programmer to use larger integer values in their equations as you can store a bigger number in 64bit space than in 32bit space. You can also address more memory from a single process, so if there are memory hungry processes in the Eve cluster (and I'm sure there are) these strains can be lifted using 64bit hardware. Server: Most of the server optimizations will directly impact the users in the performance they get when using a resource in tranquility. Converting from 32bit to 64bit server software will simply allow the server software to take advantage of the hardware bonuses I mentioned above. Client: From my perspective, a 64bit client would be nice, but won't really bring as much benefit in terms of performance as the server optimizations will. When we look at what CCP is trying to accomplish (the reduction of lag) and the cause of that problem (generally overloaded solar systems), the servers have to be made to handle the load before the lag problem will be shifted to the client. Granted, your client might have problems drawing 400 ships in that 200 vs 200 fleet battle you were in, but I'd bet that the SOL server is having a harder time keeping up with everything it has to do. It is possible that you could wrap the 32 and 64 bit clients into a single package. If it were two seperate packages, n terms of patch day, you wouldn't have to apply 2 patches, you'd just apply the patch for the client you're using (a single 64-bit patch or 32-bit patch). Client to Server communication: The client communicates to the server via a defined protocol, and no matter whether you have a 64 bit client, 32 bit client, 64 bit server, or 32 bit server, that protocol will remain constant. You can mix and match whatever you like on either end as long as the protocol is the same. 64-bit kitchen sink: a wider pipeline allows much more water to flow thus decreasing washing time. If you're not technical, just think of it like this - CCP has acquired the tech 2 components it requires to assemble a Tech 2 Tranquility cluster. This is not an instant Gjallarhorn to lag, but it will be noticably better than the Tech 1 Tranquility we're running on now. With all this talk about bits, I believe it has to be said - remember, there are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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