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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Felxia
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Posted - 2006.01.21 12:43:00 -
[1]
Is it only me that thinks that atm it's retarded that you cannot defend yourself from someone that has killrights on you if that person decides to attack?
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Stephen HB
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Posted - 2006.01.21 12:46:00 -
[2]
Um, I thought you could? As far as I'm aware once someone has attacked you, returning fire is entirely OK. Otherwise the 'bait and gank' can flagging wouldn't work.
If concord is destroying people for fighting back, bug report it, as I'm pretty sure this isn't supposed to happen. -- Originally by: Nyphur The irony is astounding. The sheer level of raw irony here is enough to iron my clothes for a year.
EVE Tracking Guide |
Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2006.01.21 12:46:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 21/01/2006 12:46:36
Originally by: Felxia Is it only me that thinks that atm it's retarded that you cannot defend yourself from someone that has killrights on you if that person decides to attack?
I don't know how it is at the moment, but imho you should always be able to defend yourself without reaction of concorde, no matter when or why you are attacked. ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
Felxia
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Posted - 2006.01.21 12:48:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Felxia on 21/01/2006 12:49:51
Originally by: Stephen HB Um, I thought you could? As far as I'm aware once someone has attacked you, returning fire is entirely OK. Otherwise the 'bait and gank' can flagging wouldn't work.
If concord is destroying people for fighting back, bug report it, as I'm pretty sure this isn't supposed to happen.
"Response ([GM]Rendo) - 01/05/2006 05:34 PM Hi Robert,
What you experienced is not a bug. If you attack and kill another player then he receives kill rights on you. He can then attack you anywhere in empire space without Concord intervention. If you retaliate then Concord will intervene if you are in a empire system. According to the devs then this is how it was designed and it's not a bug. If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to contact us again. We'll do all we can to help.
Best regards, The EVE Online Customer Support Team"
From a dev response, this proves that if you get attacked in empire you do not have the right to return fire.
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Ardent Rellik
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Posted - 2006.01.21 12:52:00 -
[5]
Crap.... does that mean dozen or so peeps can attack me in empire and I cant fire back.... oh...man.
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Felxia
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Posted - 2006.01.21 12:55:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ardent Rellik Crap.... does that mean dozen or so peeps can attack me in empire and I cant fire back.... oh...man.
yeah, and thats what I find rediculous, not only do only they have the right to decide when to attack but they can do so without getting shot back at. However I thin kthis only affects ppl the DID NOT fire back, miners for example.
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Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2006.01.21 12:57:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 21/01/2006 13:05:12
Originally by: Felxia Edited by: Felxia on 21/01/2006 12:49:51
Originally by: Stephen HB Um, I thought you could? As far as I'm aware once someone has attacked you, returning fire is entirely OK. Otherwise the 'bait and gank' can flagging wouldn't work.
If concord is destroying people for fighting back, bug report it, as I'm pretty sure this isn't supposed to happen.
"Response ([GM]Rendo) - 01/05/2006 05:34 PM Hi Robert,
What you experienced is not a bug. If you attack and kill another player then he receives kill rights on you. He can then attack you anywhere in empire space without Concord intervention. If you retaliate then Concord will intervene if you are in a empire system. According to the devs then this is how it was designed and it's not a bug. If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to contact us again. We'll do all we can to help.
Best regards, The EVE Online Customer Support Team"
From a dev response, this proves that if you get attacked in empire you do not have the right to return fire.
Since I respect the work of the devs, it's really difficult for me not to say that I think that this is crap. edit: Well at least concorde doesn't scramble and web you, so that somebody can take revenge a few days later, but it's not much difference imho. ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
Wanoah
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Felxia Is it only me that thinks that atm it's retarded that you cannot defend yourself from someone that has killrights on you if that person decides to attack?
I have heard this before. Have you tested it?
As a rule of thumb, you can always defend yourself if someone attacks you.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:03:00 -
[9]
felxia- why are you posting? is gingermagician banned?
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Clytamnestra
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:06:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Wanoah
Originally by: Felxia Is it only me that thinks that atm it's retarded that you cannot defend yourself from someone that has killrights on you if that person decides to attack?
I have heard this before. Have you tested it?
As a rule of thumb, you can always defend yourself if someone attacks you.
Well, if the GM's aknowledge that it's not the case for killrights, then I guess that takes precedence.
On the other hand, it's bothersome that there are situations where you cannot fire back without getting concordokken'd - it sounds just weird. And it's open for abuse.
Myself, I have noticed that the only kill rights I have are from fights where I've not fired back. So it might be one of those mechanism.
--
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Felxia
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: HippoKing felxia- why are you posting? is gingermagician banned?
Casue I've some people have killrights on me and I think it's unfair that I can't defend myself
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Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:13:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 21/01/2006 13:13:34 Perhaps it's a misunderstanding ? Like if A kills B, B gets killrights on A, so B kills A but then A doesn't get killrights on B again. Well, if the GMs mean that, then it makes sense.
But if you can't defend yourself without concorde intervention, then something is totally wrong. ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:13:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Felxia
Originally by: HippoKing felxia- why are you posting? is gingermagician banned?
Casue I've some people have killrights on me and I think it's unfair that I can't defend myself
i get the unfairness, but i just wondered why this thread wasn't made by ginger?
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Felxia
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:14:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Clytamnestra
Originally by: Wanoah
Originally by: Felxia Is it only me that thinks that atm it's retarded that you cannot defend yourself from someone that has killrights on you if that person decides to attack?
I have heard this before. Have you tested it?
As a rule of thumb, you can always defend yourself if someone attacks you.
Well, if the GM's aknowledge that it's not the case for killrights, then I guess that takes precedence.
On the other hand, it's bothersome that there are situations where you cannot fire back without getting concordokken'd - it sounds just weird. And it's open for abuse.
Myself, I have noticed that the only kill rights I have are from fights where I've not fired back. So it might be one of those mechanism.
you can in other words just sit in 0.0 in a shuttle and get pwned. For example a fleet. You'll get kill rights on all those peeps cause you could not fight back and then in empire pwn them all without anything happaning. However if the fleet decides to leave you alone your gonna give enemies their position away number count ship types etc. Even setups if you can scan em.
It's just... wrong.
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Ebil Fred
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:17:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Ebil Fred on 21/01/2006 13:25:59 While not being able to defend yourself may suck try not to forget why they have kill rights on you in the first place.
/edit: IIRC Kill rights does not aplly to 0.0 only low sec and high sec empire. (\ _ (O /) o) . <) (> I cut up teh bunneh too. |
Wanoah
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:19:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Felxia you can in other words just sit in 0.0 in a shuttle and get pwned. For example a fleet. You'll get kill rights on all those peeps cause you could not fight back and then in empire pwn them all without anything happaning. However if the fleet decides to leave you alone your gonna give enemies their position away number count ship types etc. Even setups if you can scan em.
It's just... wrong.
If that is true, then it is ludicrous.
I think that kill rights are a great idea btw - anything that creates additional pvp opportunities gets my vote. But CONCORD intervening if you defend yourself is just wrong. It makes no sense.
If you have time, it might be worth testing it with a couple of your alts and creating a bug report. I know you've quoted a GM response, but they can sometimes get it wrong.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:21:00 -
[17]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Felxia
Originally by: HippoKing felxia- why are you posting? is gingermagician banned?
Casue I've some people have killrights on me and I think it's unfair that I can't defend myself
i get the unfairness, but i just wondered why this thread wasn't made by ginger?
Why dont you do us all a favour and attempt to keep to the topic instead of postulating of the true identity of the OP.
Before you revealed it was a ginger thread there was a very good chance that people would address the point and not "who made the point"
For the record, I think you should be able to retaliate.
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Sim Frost
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:24:00 -
[18]
So what were you expecting? Being a criminal and flying around freely like a bird in empire space continuing to kill noobs without suffering the consequences?
And stop talking as if there is no other option! There is always the other option which is running...
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Brisi
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:24:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Brisi on 21/01/2006 13:24:40
Originally by: Felxia "Response ([GM]Rendo) - 01/05/2006 05:34 PM Hi Robert,
What you experienced is not a bug. If you attack and kill another player then he receives kill rights on you. He can then attack you anywhere in empire space without Concord intervention. If you retaliate then Concord will intervene if you are in a empire system. According to the devs then this is how it was designed and it's not a bug. If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to contact us again. We'll do all we can to help.
Best regards, The EVE Online Customer Support Team"
This is absolutely rediculous. I can't find any other word for it. You should ALWAYS be able to retaliate on an agressor, no matter why he's attacked you. This will be exploited so much, I can't even begin to imagine the numerous possibilities.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:26:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Deja Thoris Before you revealed it was a ginger thread there was a very good chance that people would address the point and not "who made the point"[/.quote]
yeah, thats a fair point.
Originally by: Deja Thoris For the record, I think you should be able to retaliate.
and for the record, i think so too
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Brisi
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:27:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sim Frost So what were you expecting? Being a criminal and flying around freely like a bird in empire space continuing to kill noobs without suffering the consequences?
And stop talking as if there is no other option! There is always the other option which is running...
How about you start using your brain a little? The whole point is that there are consequences, i.e kill rights. However, not being able to retaliate when someone (who has kill rights on you) without triggering Concord is just idiotic.
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Syrec
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:27:00 -
[22]
Sim: it's about not being able to defend themselves. Right now they are a free target, with the only option being to sit and take it. If you fire on someone you have killrights on, they should have every opportunity to defend themselves and attack you back.
I think this is a bug and would expect CCP to allow everyone to defend themselves when being attacked.
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Jacques Archambault
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:28:00 -
[23]
Please do not post correspondence with GMs on the forums.
Jacques
Member of the official Eris Discordia Fanclub
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Wanoah
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sim Frost So what were you expecting? Being a criminal and flying around freely like a bird in empire space continuing to kill noobs without suffering the consequences?
And stop talking as if there is no other option! There is always the other option which is running...
Well, that's not quite true, if you care to think about it. A negative security status stops you flying around Empire free as a bird. I recently podded a pirate in low sec without thinking (I'm more used to shooting at war targets - that's my excuse for being so dumb) and it pushed me over -2 sec status. Given that my main routes take me through a 1.0 system, this was really inconvenient. After losing a couple of ships to the Republic Fleet, I had to go and shoot Sansha battleships for a bit to fix it.
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Sim Frost
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:33:00 -
[25]
Nah, think about it, the assistance of Concord could be the only thing some noobs can have against vet pirates or gankers. I think it is brilliant
As I said, running is always an option. You don't have to defend yourself when attacked in +0.5. You can RUN. Believe me most of us make a difficult living running from lazy gate campers at every corner.
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Clytamnestra
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:35:00 -
[26]
The "patch notes" for the Eye for an Eye feature of Red Moon Rising has this to say on the matter:
Quote: If you lose your ship within Empire space because of unsanctioned combat, you earn the right to revenge your loss for a limited time, and can kill the assailant on sight.
The only people I have kill rights on are people who killed me without me shooting back at all. And if it's true that you can't fire back without getting concordokkened, well then I have before me a way of making a lot of money.
Drive up to a gate-camp in a shuttle. I've gotten kill-rights on the entire gang that sniped me at one gate-camp. Then find them and destroy them. If they shoot back, they get concordokkened.
That hardly sounds fair. Everyone should have the right to fire back once fired upon - otherwize there's an opportunity for abuse.
--
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Felxia
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:43:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Gummi
Originally by: Clytamnestra The "patch notes" for the Eye for an Eye feature of Red Moon Rising has this to say on the matter:
Quote: If you lose your ship within Empire space because of unsanctioned combat, you earn the right to revenge your loss for a limited time, and can kill the assailant on sight.
The only people I have kill rights on are people who killed me without me shooting back at all. And if it's true that you can't fire back without getting concordokkened, well then I have before me a way of making a lot of money.
Drive up to a gate-camp in a shuttle. I've gotten kill-rights on the entire gang that sniped me at one gate-camp. Then find them and destroy them. If they shoot back, they get concordokkened.
That hardly sounds fair. Everyone should have the right to fire back once fired upon - otherwize there's an opportunity for abuse.
Exactly. The shuttle is the key, use it to gain kill rights, and to difuse kill rights in empire.
yep
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Felxia
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:45:00 -
[28]
Originally by: HippoKing are killrights private, or corp?
private i think
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Gummi
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:47:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Felxia
Originally by: HippoKing are killrights private, or corp?
private i think
yep
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robacz
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Posted - 2006.01.21 13:47:00 -
[30]
Edited by: robacz on 21/01/2006 13:47:41
Originally by: Clytamnestra The "patch notes" for the Eye for an Eye feature of Red Moon Rising has this to say on the matter:
Quote: If you lose your ship within Empire space because of unsanctioned combat, you earn the right to revenge your loss for a limited time, and can kill the assailant on sight.
The only people I have kill rights on are people who killed me without me shooting back at all. And if it's true that you can't fire back without getting concordokkened, well then I have before me a way of making a lot of money.
Drive up to a gate-camp in a shuttle. I've gotten kill-rights on the entire gang that sniped me at one gate-camp. Then find them and destroy them. If they shoot back, they get concordokkened.
That hardly sounds fair. Everyone should have the right to fire back once fired upon - otherwize there's an opportunity for abuse.
Fair? Heh and how fair is killing unarmed shuttle? Imho its perfect, it makes ppl think twice before they kill players who have no chance to fight back.
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