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tenp1
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Posted - 2006.01.22 10:12:00 -
[31]
Edited by: tenp1 on 22/01/2006 10:12:34 If you compare the current BS to the cruisers you get
Armageddon = Omen Apocalypse = Maller Raven = Caracal Scorpion = Blackbird Dominix = Vexor Megathron = Thorax Tempest = Rupture Typhoon = Not entirely sure, but i'd say it was more akin to the pre ew change Bellicose
So that leaves
For amarr either high armour remote cap transferer like an augoror, or an EW drone ship like the Arbitrator. An arb like ship would be my choice, though it may be a bit too similar to the Dominix.
For caldari, it's either a gunboat like the moa or a mining shield transferer like the osprey. I guess there is no question there, gunboat all the way
For Galante it's either a high cargo shield transferer like the Exequror, or an ew ship like the Celestis. I think thats another no brainer, EW bs beats a cargo support bs hands down.
For minmattar you get either a high speed autocannon bs like the stabber or a mining tracking support bs like the scythe. Again a no brainer going for a fast autocannon bs. The downside of this is that it leaves the typhoon as a bit of an oddball as it would mean the other races get an ew ship but Min wouldn't. Preferably I'd give the Typhoon a painter bonus and be done with it (I happen to like painters).
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2006.01.22 10:14:00 -
[32]
Yeah your right....
Tier 3 Minmatar BS too slow and big for close-range combat....it can get teared apart by smaller BS wich will hit it like a wall.
Maybe close-combat still can have a go but with simply uber tank to assemble all the damage. -=-
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.01.22 10:17:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Pesadel0 Wont the tier3 BS receive new art ? Like all the tier3 frigs are diferent ,the Bs should be too rigth ?^^
Takes time to make the new artwork considering that the 3d designers need not only make a new set of skins (think they do one skin in 1024x768 and one skin in twice that for all ships) but they also need to make the models (please, please, make the tier 3 Gallente reminiscent of the Gallente Shuttle!).
As far as I can see, they've thus got 8 models and 16 skins to do in addition to any extra skins the devs request for NPC, T2 or faction variants before Kali. (tier 3 BShip and tier 2 BCs)
Visit http://www.mercenarycoalition.com/ for contract quotes and more. |
Gierling
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Posted - 2006.01.22 10:21:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Gierling on 22/01/2006 10:22:27 I'm concerned that they all have such significantly more hitpoints then the other battleships, however thier sigs are VERY high. I wish Farjung was around to crunch the numbers and see if the sig is high enough to balance the crazy high hitpoints.
Anyhow like I was saying I reiterate that I HOPE these don't become PWNAGE in a can, but instead have interesting bonuses that do NOT make existing ships obselete.
Yeah these will get new models, hopefully they will not be ugly
*snip* That's not very appropriate. - Teblin |
Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.01.22 11:10:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Pesadel0 on 22/01/2006 11:10:07
Quote: Yeah these will get new models, hopefully they will not be ugly
Hell no i want an "uglier" ship than the phoon ^_^
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B'laze
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Posted - 2006.01.22 11:14:00 -
[36]
plz plz plz make the tier3 caldari BS look like a finished scorp
Or at least make it look good, maybe a BS version of the merlin?
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tenp1
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Posted - 2006.01.22 11:17:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Gierling Yeah these will get new models, hopefully they will not be ugly
Mmmmm giant arbi look alike FTW
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booh
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Posted - 2006.01.22 11:32:00 -
[38]
taken from TQ db
tier 3 BS
Caldari:
8/7/5 7 Turret 4 Launcher
19000 grid, 750 cpu
6800 shield hp 5000 cap hp
100k target range, 50m3 drone
Minmatar:
8/6/6 8 Turret 3 Launcher
19750 grid, 650 cpu
6400 shield hp 6000 armor hp 4800 cap hp
82500 target range, 80m3 drone
Amarr:
8/4/8 7 Turret 1 Launcher
21250 grid, 550 cpu
6800 armor hp 5500 cap hp
87500 target range, 75m3 drone
Gallente:
8/5/7 8 turret 1 launcher
20750 grid, 600 cpu
6400 armor hp 5250 cap hp
92500 target range, 200m3 drone
-------------------
tier 2 BC
Caldari:
8/6/4 7 launcher 3 turret
800 grid, 525 cpu
3125 shield hp 2250 cap hp 25 m3 drone
Minmatar:
8/4/6 7 turret 3 launcher
1300 grid, 400 cpu
2813 shield hp 2500 armor hp 2250 cap hp 30m3 drone
Amarr:
8/3/7 8 turret
1500 grid, 350 cpu
3125 armor hp 2500 cap hp 50m3 drone
Gallente:
8/5/5 6 turret 1 launcher
1100 grid, 400 cpu
2813 armor hp 2250 cap hp 250m3 drone
---------------
no bonuses and still needs balancing imo, but there are some interesting things... like 7 launcher BC for caldari, 250m3 gallente BC, 8 turret amarr BC... 8 turret minnie BC!
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.01.22 11:58:00 -
[39]
ETA of tier 3 BS?
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.01.22 12:01:00 -
[40]
well i think us minies wont be disapointed with either if the make the Tier3 BS and the tier2 BC ,the Minmater Bs seems a monster 8 turret slots about time we get a all turret ship 8 650AC anyone :).
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.01.22 12:52:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Gronsak ETA of tier 3 BS?
see: eta of kali
You never know, with their increased hitpoints, much larger sig radius (already bigger than the sig resolution of large guns) and slow speed, these look more like anti-pos/fleet battleships rather than close-range pwnmobiles.
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GlimmerMan
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Posted - 2006.01.22 14:08:00 -
[42]
Originally by: booh Edited by: booh on 22/01/2006 11:40:31 Edited by: booh on 22/01/2006 11:38:06 taken from TQ db
tier 3 BS
Amarr:
8/4/8 7 Turret 1 Launcher
21250 grid, 550 cpu
6800 armor hp 5500 cap hp
87500 target range, 75m3 drone
That 7 better become an 8 before they go live with that ship otehrwise that is a seriously gimped ship compared to the rest.
... and according to that DB those new battleships only have a maximum number of targets of 5 or 6, that also needs looking at.
Blowing s**t up since May 2003
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Valea Silpha
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Posted - 2006.01.22 14:53:00 -
[43]
Im hoping with all my soul that they won't fob the minnies off with a painter ship. Again. Useful they can be, but Ewar they are not. Scorps happily use all 8 meds to jam if they want to. Who in their right mind would use 6-8 painters ?
Giving a ship a bonus that will only ever apply to at most 2 of its slots its just appaling. Im still fairly agrieved by the bellicose. IMHO minies whould have tracking disruption as their racial Ewar, since they are meant to be 'fast', thus making their one good point feel even stronger.
I think a BS stabber would be excellet :D . 5% to speed , 5% to dmg or tacking ... or even 5% to falloff if it has 8 turrets. Would mean that the thron would still be the pwn ship at 5-10km, then the new minnie bs from 10-20km... need ot keep your distance, but still doa lot of DPS
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Shaura
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Posted - 2006.01.22 17:01:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Sarmaul You never know, with their increased hitpoints, much larger sig radius (already bigger than the sig resolution of large guns) and slow speed, these look more like anti-pos/fleet battleships rather than close-range pwnmobiles.
I really hoped that these would be another tier 1 or tier 1.5 BS. I'd much prefer that these don't replace the current flagship BS of each race, being introduced as a lesser design. Much like the scorp and raven's relationship, the scorp designed to uphold Caldari's EW forte, but the raven is still the flagship.
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000Hunter000
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Posted - 2006.01.22 18:22:00 -
[45]
Well in any case, if it's not better then the Tier 1 and 2 or atleast have a special feature the Tier 1 and 2 don't have then whats the point? Only to give the races another weapontype ship? hell if i want to use guns i'll use my thron, if i want to use lasers i'll use a geddon or apoc, if i want to use drones i'll use a domi, if i want to use projectiles i must be drunk (ok bad minni joke i admit).
Anyways good thing that there gonna be affordable though, atleast thats something, if it were another T2 ship it would become like all the rest, overpriced...
So what would u guys love to see in a tier 3 BS then? Cause for me personally i think the current ones do their job just fine.
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The Major
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Posted - 2006.01.22 21:33:00 -
[46]
Personally I'm just happy that Caldari should finnally get a BS that actually looks good (lets face it the CCP art team have come on in leaps and bounds in the last few years and we won't get another Scorp or Raven).
If anything I'll be using the Tier3 BS for that one reason. Nevermind the fact I have far more points in Railguns than Missiles . From the looks of the prelim stats it's going to be THE sniping Battleship which is what Caldari should have had all along.
Although with 7 launcher slots on the new BC I have a horrid feeling it will significantly out-damage the Nighthawk espechilly since I think it's bonuses will be very similar (+10% Missile Velocity and -5% explosion Radius).
Although the trend for the Tier 2 BCs seems to be "All Gank no Tank" and I suspect the Tier 1's will actually be able to tank better despite having less slots.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.01.22 22:13:00 -
[47]
Sig resolution of large guns: 400
Sig radius of Tier 3 Amarr: 470 Sig radius of Tier 3 Caldari: 500 Sig radius of Tier 3 Gallente: 485 Sig radius of Tier 3 Minmatar: 460
This means that every tier bs will take full damage vs another bs. The only thing having a smaller sig radius will help against is fighting a dreadnought or shooting a POS.
Either that, or large guns are getting their sig radius upped to make frigates even harder to hit
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.01.22 23:11:00 -
[48]
Originally by: GlimmerMan That 7 better become an 8 before they go live with that ship otehrwise that is a seriously gimped ship compared to the rest.
It's basically the same for the Gallente tier 2 BC. Getting it's turrets reduced is a step up as the next tier suggests? (And for the love of the light! Neither Gallente nor Amarr like inferior missiles on their ships! Stop building them with missiles! THAT is the first thing I am removing from my ships with Tech 3)
WTB: Galllente/Amarr faction BShip Visit the MC |
Noriath
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Posted - 2006.01.22 23:18:00 -
[49]
I think tier 3 battleships will be a bit weird.
For example there is always talk about how Caldari needs a railgun ship, Gallente needs a damper platform and so on - but why would those kinds of ships be the best those races have to offer at tier 3?
There is always talk about an Amarr droneship - but if that turns out to be a tier 3 ship then all the sudden Amarr are better at using drones then Gallente.
I'm really hoping this is implemented right, and won't completly screw with what the races are known for by introducing something that they could kind of use as the best they acctually have.
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Gierling
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Posted - 2006.01.22 23:28:00 -
[50]
Yeah like I said, these look like these will add more tools to the toolbox, although I'll reiterate that I hope they don't make the existing ships redundant.
The Dominix and the Typhoon already are, although the phoon is getting looked at.
Seriously the Gallente one has a low enough mass that I figure it'll primarily be a blaster boat. I just really really hope that it doesnt get a straight damage bonus, becuase thne there will be no reason to ever use a megathron.
Also the grid on these is absurdly your in triple repper territory on the Amarr one, and the Gallente one could fit a full rack of t2 nuetrons and MWD a repper AND two heavy cap injectors. Its absolutely ludicrous.
They also break the progression, all of the lower ships (frigs and cruisers) the top tier ship can fit a full rack of the top guns with a modest amount left over. In these your looking at having 4k grid left over at least after putting on a full rack of the Best tech two weapons.
*snip* That's not very appropriate. - Teblin |
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.01.22 23:31:00 -
[51]
The Dominix is not that bad, but if Gallente get another Gunship I'd really like its bonus to be changed to something else and see one or two more medslots on it...
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Steppa
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Posted - 2006.01.22 23:37:00 -
[52]
From what I understand, the tier 3 battleships were not necessarily going to be bigger, more powerful ship. Instead, I seem to remember them saying the tier 3 ships would fill specific roles.
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Ark Xenon
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Posted - 2006.01.23 00:43:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Ark Xenon on 23/01/2006 00:44:22
Originally by: Gierling
Minmater Tier 3:
5% Capacitor capacity 5% tracking
Why its balanced: Its a minnie Apoc, a tanking fiend that still has a powerful bite to it.
Hell No. And your gallente assumption sucks too. God damn i keep posting on this alt.
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Gierling
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Posted - 2006.01.23 00:43:00 -
[54]
Ok, assuming these stats are something worthwhile to base on.
I believe the following bonuses make them the most balanced and interesting. Providing more flexibility overall while still fitting in the toolbox.
Gallente Tier 3:
10% MWD 10% Falloff
Why its Balanced: Essentially a big deimos, it will have a much easier time getting in range to hurt other ships. It won'd do as much pure damage as the Megathron but it will be more mobile. In a fleet situation it'll hit a little further for a little less damage.
Caldari Tier 3:
10% Optimal range 5% Shield resistance
Why its balanced: Big moa basically, won't do as much damage as the raven but till do it instantly while being able to soak up a good deal of fire.
Minmater Tier 3:
5% Capacitor capacity 5% tracking
Why its balanced: Its a minnie Apoc, a tanking fiend that still has a powerful bite to it.
Amarr Tier 3:
5% Armour resists 10% Energy use
Why its balanced: NEither tank nor gank, it can do both well.
*snip* That's not very appropriate. - Teblin |
Gierling
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Posted - 2006.01.23 01:11:00 -
[55]
Actually the Gallente one is kind of evil, Nuetrons hitting from 30k with antimatter (Shudder). At that range tracking isn't as much of an issue, and the extra turret equalizes the damage output a bit. The mega still does a little bit more damage, but needs to get a lot closer to do it.
The Minmater one is problematic, becuase as it is there is no way the it doesnt eclipse the Tempest in every concievable way. With its damage bonus the Tempest is (6*1.25=7.5) equivelent to 7.5 guns. So if the Minnie Tier 3 gets the same bonuses its equivelent to 10 guns and there is no reason to use the tempest, if you give it the rof bonues and ANY other bonus like range, falloff, or tracking then it STILL clearly outpaces the tempest.
*snip* That's not very appropriate. - Teblin |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.01.23 01:11:00 -
[56]
Originally by: HippoKing the problem with a tier 3 BS is that the tier 2 is already the peak of each empire's ship building ideology. When making a tier 3, you either make another ship the same (uber raven, uberpoc, uberthron, uberpest) - which would be boring - or betray each race's ideology by making their most powerful battleship a bastard ship idea (caldari's main BS as rails? WTF?)
i think they should be added as another tier 1 BS
When you think about it, there is some room for an uber ship... the TRUE UBER SHIP!
Caldari: Micro Fighter Carrier. Can launcher like 1-3 carriers, with skills and the right mods, better damage than your average Raven (as it would be). Or lesser Damage but a big Ferox-like Tanking ability, giving either a crazy passive tank ability, or hard to break active.
Gallente: Rail platform. Slower and less agile than the Megathron, but more Grid/cpu/armor. could be bastardized into a nice blaster ship like some like to do to the Moa.
Minmatar: Deimos-style MWD bonuses. Fast and Agile AC platform of pwn. Would also have tracking bonuses so the guns could keep up while making those close high speed orbits.
Amarr: No idea. Maybe they could fit giant speakers and bore their enemies to death with preaching and sermons about their God. I know I'd rather self destruct my pod than sit there tackled, listening to sermons.
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.01.23 01:14:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Ithildin Also, regarding the top-tier comment on Caldari, consider the Moa and Merlin.
What about them? A kestrel with skills is going to put a major hurting on a Merlin, and a Caracal can setup to keep range on a moa if need be, or, when assault become heavy launchers, try to get under the moa's Rails and open up with lots of hurting with heavy rockets.
Moa and Caracal have more of a Gap, but it's really a close call between merlin and kestrel.
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.01.23 01:21:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Gierling Actually the Gallente one is kind of evil, Nuetrons hitting from 30k with antimatter (Shudder). At that range tracking isn't as much of an issue, and the extra turret equalizes the damage output a bit. The mega still does a little bit more damage, but needs to get a lot closer to do it.
The Minmater one is problematic, becuase as it is there is no way the it doesnt eclipse the Tempest in every concievable way. With its damage bonus the Tempest is (6*1.25=7.5) equivelent to 7.5 guns. So if the Minnie Tier 3 gets the same bonuses its equivelent to 10 guns and there is no reason to use the tempest, if you give it the rof bonues and ANY other bonus like range, falloff, or tracking then it STILL clearly outpaces the tempest.
Judging from the placeholder stats,, it's 10% bonus to something, and I bet it's ROF.
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Acwron
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Posted - 2006.01.23 01:33:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Gierling 10% ROF would be interesting, would help artillery and autos. But wouldnt retire the tempest I would approve.
I think the max locked targets 3 is there on purpose.
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Urza Rast
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Posted - 2006.01.23 01:45:00 -
[60]
I know this is still a work in progress but please whoever keeps taking the nerf bat and beating the hell out of the Amarr. Just put the nerf bat down and back away slowly.
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