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mistery mango	Posted - 2006.01.21 16:22:00 - [1] they say taht in kali ther will be t3 batelships so they just goma skip the t2 batelships or am i missing somting :S ... eny pics or info on them?
Deacan Wildfire	Posted - 2006.01.21 16:25:00 - [2] tier 3 battleships not tech 3 battleships. Big difference. (ie. armageddon/dominix/phoon/scorp is tier1, apoc/mega/temp/raven tier 2) - DW plaguing MMORPGs since 1997
General Griefus	Posted - 2006.01.21 16:26:00 - [3] Edited by: General Griefus on 21/01/2006 16:26:39 they are talking about tier 3 battleships, not tech 3. like the armegeddon being tier 1 and the apoc tier 2, its just a bigger or different type of tech 1 battleship EDIT: Deacan beat me to it
Vlad Morrolan	Posted - 2006.01.21 17:27:00 - [4] Tier 3, which is to say, they require racial battleship 3 for you to fly them.
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2006.01.21 18:03:00 - [5] Then i really hope they will have more hp/capabilities as Tier 1 BS have lower hp then Tier 2. -=-
Xio2	Posted - 2006.01.21 20:19:00 - [6] yeah..they will have more hp, and probably cost 20-40mil more than the tier 2's. which will make them about HAC prices now. they better be wtfomgbbqpwn mobiles. so far the only one ive heard anything about is the caldari one, and that it will be a rail platform. -------------- now this is the way a sig should be Xio2
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.01.21 20:29:00 - [7] There's some early draft stats for them in the game database, and they look wicked <3 (only hoping the ship models will be as yummy as their current attributes...)
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.01.21 20:35:00 - [8] Maybe the Raven should get boosted to be the teir 3 Caldari BS, and the rail one made the T2? It really wouldn't make any sense for the best BS for a missile race to be a rail platform. Also, whatever happened to the teir2 BCs, or was that idea scrapped? Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2006.01.21 22:02:00 - [9] Originally by: j0sephine There's some early draft stats for them in the game database, and they look wicked <3 (only hoping the ship models will be as yummy as their current attributes...) where is that database? -=-
elFarto	Posted - 2006.01.21 22:26:00 - [10] Originally by: Sky Hunter Originally by: j0sephine There's some early draft stats for them in the game database, and they look wicked <3 (only hoping the ship models will be as yummy as their current attributes...) where is that database? It's in the client cache files. You require a special program to view it. No you can't have it. Regards elFarto npc.elfarto.com > Ingame NPC database
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.01.21 22:29:00 - [11] the problem with a tier 3 BS is that the tier 2 is already the peak of each empire's ship building ideology. When making a tier 3, you either make another ship the same (uber raven, uberpoc, uberthron, uberpest) - which would be boring - or betray each race's ideology by making their most powerful battleship a bastard ship idea (caldari's main BS as rails? WTF?) i think they should be added as another tier 1 BS
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.01.21 22:32:00 - [12] "It's in the client cache files. You require a special program to view it. No you can't have it." Aye ;o (though jide's Item Inventory seems to list them now, too... in the main battleships sub-folder)
Tauruz	Posted - 2006.01.21 22:41:00 - [13] Interesting to see the tier 3 Amarr ship has the Armageddon pic and not the Apoc.
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.01.21 23:05:00 - [14] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Maybe the Raven should get boosted to be the teir 3 Caldari BS, and the rail one made the T2? It really wouldn't make any sense for the best BS for a missile race to be a rail platform. Also, whatever happened to the teir2 BCs, or was that idea scrapped? Tier 2 BCs are still coming out. All of them seem to have 8 high +10 low and mid. All of them have gotten hardpoints increased, except the Gallente one who's lost a turret and gained a launcher (yes, leaving one utility slot, where the others have more hardpoints that high slots). Also, regarding the top-tier comment on Caldari, consider the Moa and Merlin. Sadly it looks like the Gallente tier 3 BShip is just going to be a BIGGER and better Megathron (8 turrets). The Minmatar battleship seems to have 8 turrets as well as a single bonus of -10% per level. The Amarrian one seems to be the one getting the short end, although it is REALLY EARLY to tell as well as we can't see the boni. It has only 7 turrets and a launcher. Amarr tier 3 has two boni listed as -5% per level (both of them), so we can only speculate (e.g. "wtf? no cap use bonus!?") All of them have one more slot total than the other battleships (i.e. two more than Domi and Scorp) Not a one of them seems to be an electronic warfare ship, although the Caldari one comes close with 7 mid slots. Visit http://www.mercenarycoalition.com/ for contract quotes and more.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.01.21 23:09:00 - [15] Edited by: Sarmaul on 21/01/2006 23:14:48 give me... Hurricane: Minmatar Tier 3 BS 8/7/4 7 Turrets 3 Launchers loads of cpu crippled powergrid so it can't load 7 1400mm howies without a gazillion fitting mods damage & falloff bonus drone bay same as tempest base speed same as typhoon ... and I'll be happy edit: omg just checked item db: 8 turrets, 6 mid and 6 low. come on ccp, make it 7 mid and 5 low - you know you want to :)
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.01.21 23:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Ithildin Not a one of them seems to be an electronic warfare ship, although the Caldari one comes close with 7 mid slots. the caldari one is going to be a rail bs, meaning it's gonna need to devote it's mid slots to both tank and tracking comps/sensor boosters to get the range.
Chade Malloy	Posted - 2006.01.22 01:54:00 - [17] Edited by: Chade Malloy on 22/01/2006 01:58:33 Imho a true Tier 3 BS should be special in some way, so that it can maybe fit one XL turret/ citadel launcher and still has enough powergrid for support weapons. This could have an impact on the design too, maybe a tier 3 BS could be just a big generator core + support systems. Or maybe they add more slots? 10hi-slot bs 4tw :P Tier 2 detroysers and battlecruisers would be nice too, make the tier 2 destroyer closer to cruiser class in durability, but a bit slower. Or he could be specialized in taking out even smaller targets than frigs by being able to fit some sort of anti-missile flak system. And a tier 2 Bcru could prolly fit 1 L turret / cruise or siege launcher. Originally by: Oveur Jesus Christ. The Freighter ate the Stargate god and the Dreadnought didn't!
Deacan Wildfire	Posted - 2006.01.22 01:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Ithildin Not a one of them seems to be an electronic warfare ship, although the Caldari one comes close with 7 mid slots. the caldari one is going to be a rail bs, meaning it's gonna need to devote it's mid slots to both tank and tracking comps/sensor boosters to get the range. The only reason you'd devote your midslots to tracking cpus and SBs would be if you were going for a sniper setup. And turret-based sniper setups can't run heavy tanks at the same time, not even caldari ones - DW plaguing MMORPGs since 1997
Hitomi	Posted - 2006.01.22 02:17:00 - [19] Why does everyone think that the Tier 3 battleships must outperform the Tier 2s in every respect? Let's say that the rumours about the caldari Tier 3 is right, and it's going to be a rail ship. So what if it isn't missile or ew based? (Those are the main trends of the caldari, after all) The goal here is that it is different, not a retake of the other battleships available to the race involved. And to the guy who asked for ravens to be bumped up to the tier 3 spot... no. Just no. Doing that would mean that the raven would get an upgrade (or the caldari would end up with an inferior battleship lineup compared to the other races if the new one is Tier 2 grade.) Upgrading the raven to Tier 3 is out, because it's already in game and widely used. And the devs try to avoid imbalances, so the other option wouldn't be put in either. Hence, the Raven will remain Tier 2.
Gierling	Posted - 2006.01.22 02:27:00 - [20] Edited by: Gierling on 22/01/2006 02:29:27 According to OVuer, the third battleships (they havent decide if they will be tier 3 or simply tier one or two) will NOT be able to TANK or deall damage significantly better hten the existing ships, they may however be eaasier to fit and they certainly will be a little different. I actually hope that they end up as another tier 2 or tier one ship, as the game doesnt need any more redundant ships. snip That's not very appropriate. - Teblin
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.01.22 02:30:00 - [21] "And to the guy who asked for ravens to be bumped up to the tier 3 spot... no. Just no." I don't think there's any 'design problem' with the strongest Caldari battleship being rail-ship with missiles as backup weapon. The heaviest Caladari frigate is rail + missiles ship with bonus to rails, and the AFs are primarily rail ships. Both their heaviest cruiser and the heavy assault are rail boat with secondary missile bays. Their battlecruiser and the 'bigger' command ship both get hybrid turrets bonus as well. It's quite logical for the 'top tier' battleship to follow this suit. In fact, getting for a change some actual ability to deliver high, instant damage over long distances (Caldari typically get the optimal bonus) ... it's quite... exciting :s
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol	Posted - 2006.01.22 02:32:00 - [22] Edited by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol on 22/01/2006 02:32:59 nm --------------------------------------------- <Make ECM Burst useful> ECM Burst Idea!
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.01.22 03:07:00 - [23] 10isk gallente is 5% damage to Large hybrid Turret and +5% armor repair effectivness per level. \O i wish
Kashre	Posted - 2006.01.22 07:12:00 - [24] They need to make the caldari tier 3 a rail ship They need to make everyone elses tier 3 an EW ship. And ffs I do not want the minmatar EW BS to have a target painter bonus. :( +++ It's called "low security space" for a reason.
Fierce Deity	Posted - 2006.01.22 08:29:00 - [25] devoted blaster boat for gellente, because the mega is not (to slow not enough cap, need a covert ops to make a blastathron viable). thorax mwd bonus, some other stupid bonus to make it have an offhand (pick one out of a hat or somthing). ------FD------
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2006.01.22 09:13:00 - [26] If Tier 3 Minmatar gets 8 turret slots...wow..8x 1400 IIs will insta-kill even BCs with Quake ammo. or 8x 800 IIs -=-
Gierling	Posted - 2006.01.22 09:36:00 - [27] In all honosty, it seems like the bonuses on these will be what makes them reasonable. The caldari one likely will only get Optimal and shield resists, The Gallente one is going to be biased towards blasters probably with tracking and an MWD bonus, and the minmater will likely NOT get two damage bonuses. Its interesting to think about becuase that immedietly makes it so that they don't intrude on the existing ships territory. A Minnie BS with only a ROF offensive bonus is useful, but doesnt make the Tempest obselete. While a Blaster oriented MWDing Gallente 8 turret ship doesnt make the Mega obselete becuase the Mega should still do more pure damage while not being as easy to use. The Caldari one would trade off instant damage dealing for less damage as well. The Amarr one follows that trend by being easily able to fit Tachyons, but only able to fit 7 turrets regardless. It will be interesting... Of course I might be wrong. They mat get the same bonuses as the other ships while being able to easily fit 8 turrets. Which would just be totally ridiculous and would probably make me consider quitting EVE. Power creep is bad in this game but its manageable so long as its restrained to the capital ships which have an expense that justifies things somewhat. But a Gallente Battleship with 8 turrets, A damage and Tracking bonus will just make it stupid to fly Megathrons which will **** me off becuase I LIKE the Megathron. Same with the Tempest if the Minmater get a BS that can fit 8 1400 II's with a damage and ROF bonus. It'll become a must have ship and anyone flying a tempest will pretty much be a joke. I sincerely hope that doesnt happen, and that IF the third BS can carry more turrets then the existing ships AND can fit them with little to no fitting compromise then they should NOT have the strong bonuses of the other ships. In particular the damage bonus. Giving the Gallente Tier 3 the damage bonus will just make the Mega obselete, as it has the same slot layout plus an extra midslot. Toss a tracking comp II in the midslot and you have the equivelent of BS5 in a thron, with the same exact amount of free mids and lows and an extra turret. Frankly I kinda hope the Gallente one gets tracking (the weak but still usefull bonus) explicitly so I can still fly the Megathron without being turned out of gangs. Same for the others. Please CCP do NOT make more ships useless, do NOT embrace Power Creep. The whole point of new Battleships is so that we can see more kinds of ships in gangs and fleets, not less. snip That's not very appropriate. - Teblin
pr0nqueen	Posted - 2006.01.22 09:43:00 - [28] Originally by: j0sephine "It's in the client cache files. You require a special program to view it. No you can't have it." Aye ;o (though jide's Item Inventory seems to list them now, too... in the main battleships sub-folder) That site rocks, it's also kinda droolifying to look at "Elite Battleships" section :D
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.01.22 09:43:00 - [29] A list of the ships boni, so you can speculate what they are... Amarr: -5% and -5% Caldari: +10% and +5% Gallente: +10% and nothing Minmatar: Nothing and -10% (listed by bonus id number, and with the assumption that they are, in fact, percentage per level) Also, some significant other stats (ignore the pun): A: 75¦ drone, 120M kg, 110 m/s, 470m sig, 5600 shield, 6800 armour, 550 CPU, 21,250 PG C: 50¦ drone, 130M kg, 110 m/s, 500m sig, 6800 shield, 5600 armour, 750 CPU, 19,000 PG G: 200¦ drone, 102.25M kg, 120 m/s, 485m sig, 6000 shield, 6400 armour, 600 CPU, 20,750 PG M: 90¦ drone, 110M kg, 130 m/s, 460m sig, 6400 shield, 6000 armour, 650 CPU, 19,750 PG Originally by: Sky Hunter If Tier 3 Minmatar gets 8 turret slots...wow..8x 1400 IIs will insta-kill even BCs with Quake ammo. or 8x 800 IIs It's heavy weight and not very fast, so 8x800mm is not optimal for it. At the same time it will struggle fitting full rack of 1400mm considering that it's only got Apoc level grid. Struggle, but it's doable. Visit http://www.mercenarycoalition.com/ for contract quotes and more.
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.01.22 09:49:00 - [30] Wont the tier3 BS receive new art ? Like all the tier3 frigs are diferent ,the Bs should be too rigth ?^^ And i would love the minie BS to have like 7.5% bonus to BS speed and a damage bonus or something like that would be perfect.
tenp1	Posted - 2006.01.22 10:12:00 - [31] Edited by: tenp1 on 22/01/2006 10:12:34 If you compare the current BS to the cruisers you get Armageddon = Omen Apocalypse = Maller Raven = Caracal Scorpion = Blackbird Dominix = Vexor Megathron = Thorax Tempest = Rupture Typhoon = Not entirely sure, but i'd say it was more akin to the pre ew change Bellicose So that leaves For amarr either high armour remote cap transferer like an augoror, or an EW drone ship like the Arbitrator. An arb like ship would be my choice, though it may be a bit too similar to the Dominix. For caldari, it's either a gunboat like the moa or a mining shield transferer like the osprey. I guess there is no question there, gunboat all the way For Galante it's either a high cargo shield transferer like the Exequror, or an ew ship like the Celestis. I think thats another no brainer, EW bs beats a cargo support bs hands down. For minmattar you get either a high speed autocannon bs like the stabber or a mining tracking support bs like the scythe. Again a no brainer going for a fast autocannon bs. The downside of this is that it leaves the typhoon as a bit of an oddball as it would mean the other races get an ew ship but Min wouldn't. Preferably I'd give the Typhoon a painter bonus and be done with it (I happen to like painters).
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2006.01.22 10:14:00 - [32] Yeah your right.... Tier 3 Minmatar BS too slow and big for close-range combat....it can get teared apart by smaller BS wich will hit it like a wall. Maybe close-combat still can have a go but with simply uber tank to assemble all the damage. -=-
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.01.22 10:17:00 - [33] Originally by: Pesadel0 Wont the tier3 BS receive new art ? Like all the tier3 frigs are diferent ,the Bs should be too rigth ?^^ Takes time to make the new artwork considering that the 3d designers need not only make a new set of skins (think they do one skin in 1024x768 and one skin in twice that for all ships) but they also need to make the models (please, please, make the tier 3 Gallente reminiscent of the Gallente Shuttle!). As far as I can see, they've thus got 8 models and 16 skins to do in addition to any extra skins the devs request for NPC, T2 or faction variants before Kali. (tier 3 BShip and tier 2 BCs) Visit http://www.mercenarycoalition.com/ for contract quotes and more.
Gierling	Posted - 2006.01.22 10:21:00 - [34] Edited by: Gierling on 22/01/2006 10:22:27 I'm concerned that they all have such significantly more hitpoints then the other battleships, however thier sigs are VERY high. I wish Farjung was around to crunch the numbers and see if the sig is high enough to balance the crazy high hitpoints. Anyhow like I was saying I reiterate that I HOPE these don't become PWNAGE in a can, but instead have interesting bonuses that do NOT make existing ships obselete. Yeah these will get new models, hopefully they will not be ugly snip That's not very appropriate. - Teblin
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.01.22 11:10:00 - [35] Edited by: Pesadel0 on 22/01/2006 11:10:07 Quote: Yeah these will get new models, hopefully they will not be ugly Hell no i want an "uglier" ship than the phoon ^_^
B'laze	Posted - 2006.01.22 11:14:00 - [36] plz plz plz make the tier3 caldari BS look like a finished scorp Or at least make it look good, maybe a BS version of the merlin?
tenp1	Posted - 2006.01.22 11:17:00 - [37] Originally by: Gierling Yeah these will get new models, hopefully they will not be ugly Mmmmm giant arbi look alike FTW
booh	Posted - 2006.01.22 11:32:00 - [38] taken from TQ db tier 3 BS Caldari: 8/7/5 7 Turret 4 Launcher 19000 grid, 750 cpu 6800 shield hp 5000 cap hp 100k target range, 50m3 drone Minmatar: 8/6/6 8 Turret 3 Launcher 19750 grid, 650 cpu 6400 shield hp 6000 armor hp 4800 cap hp 82500 target range, 80m3 drone Amarr: 8/4/8 7 Turret 1 Launcher 21250 grid, 550 cpu 6800 armor hp 5500 cap hp 87500 target range, 75m3 drone Gallente: 8/5/7 8 turret 1 launcher 20750 grid, 600 cpu 6400 armor hp 5250 cap hp 92500 target range, 200m3 drone ------------------- tier 2 BC Caldari: 8/6/4 7 launcher 3 turret 800 grid, 525 cpu 3125 shield hp 2250 cap hp 25 m3 drone Minmatar: 8/4/6 7 turret 3 launcher 1300 grid, 400 cpu 2813 shield hp 2500 armor hp 2250 cap hp 30m3 drone Amarr: 8/3/7 8 turret 1500 grid, 350 cpu 3125 armor hp 2500 cap hp 50m3 drone Gallente: 8/5/5 6 turret 1 launcher 1100 grid, 400 cpu 2813 armor hp 2250 cap hp 250m3 drone --------------- no bonuses and still needs balancing imo, but there are some interesting things... like 7 launcher BC for caldari, 250m3 gallente BC, 8 turret amarr BC... 8 turret minnie BC!
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.01.22 11:58:00 - [39] ETA of tier 3 BS?
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.01.22 12:01:00 - [40] well i think us minies wont be disapointed with either if the make the Tier3 BS and the tier2 BC ,the Minmater Bs seems a monster 8 turret slots about time we get a all turret ship 8 650AC anyone :).
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.01.22 12:52:00 - [41] Originally by: Gronsak ETA of tier 3 BS? see: eta of kali You never know, with their increased hitpoints, much larger sig radius (already bigger than the sig resolution of large guns) and slow speed, these look more like anti-pos/fleet battleships rather than close-range pwnmobiles.
GlimmerMan	Posted - 2006.01.22 14:08:00 - [42] Originally by: booh Edited by: booh on 22/01/2006 11:40:31 Edited by: booh on 22/01/2006 11:38:06 taken from TQ db tier 3 BS Amarr: 8/4/8 7 Turret 1 Launcher 21250 grid, 550 cpu 6800 armor hp 5500 cap hp 87500 target range, 75m3 drone That 7 better become an 8 before they go live with that ship otehrwise that is a seriously gimped ship compared to the rest. ... and according to that DB those new battleships only have a maximum number of targets of 5 or 6, that also needs looking at. Blowing s**t up since May 2003
Valea Silpha	Posted - 2006.01.22 14:53:00 - [43] Im hoping with all my soul that they won't fob the minnies off with a painter ship. Again. Useful they can be, but Ewar they are not. Scorps happily use all 8 meds to jam if they want to. Who in their right mind would use 6-8 painters ? Giving a ship a bonus that will only ever apply to at most 2 of its slots its just appaling. Im still fairly agrieved by the bellicose. IMHO minies whould have tracking disruption as their racial Ewar, since they are meant to be 'fast', thus making their one good point feel even stronger. I think a BS stabber would be excellet :D . 5% to speed , 5% to dmg or tacking ... or even 5% to falloff if it has 8 turrets. Would mean that the thron would still be the pwn ship at 5-10km, then the new minnie bs from 10-20km... need ot keep your distance, but still doa lot of DPS
Shaura	Posted - 2006.01.22 17:01:00 - [44] Originally by: Sarmaul You never know, with their increased hitpoints, much larger sig radius (already bigger than the sig resolution of large guns) and slow speed, these look more like anti-pos/fleet battleships rather than close-range pwnmobiles. I really hoped that these would be another tier 1 or tier 1.5 BS. I'd much prefer that these don't replace the current flagship BS of each race, being introduced as a lesser design. Much like the scorp and raven's relationship, the scorp designed to uphold Caldari's EW forte, but the raven is still the flagship.
000Hunter000	Posted - 2006.01.22 18:22:00 - [45] Well in any case, if it's not better then the Tier 1 and 2 or atleast have a special feature the Tier 1 and 2 don't have then whats the point? Only to give the races another weapontype ship? hell if i want to use guns i'll use my thron, if i want to use lasers i'll use a geddon or apoc, if i want to use drones i'll use a domi, if i want to use projectiles i must be drunk (ok bad minni joke i admit). Anyways good thing that there gonna be affordable though, atleast thats something, if it were another T2 ship it would become like all the rest, overpriced... So what would u guys love to see in a tier 3 BS then? Cause for me personally i think the current ones do their job just fine.
The Major	Posted - 2006.01.22 21:33:00 - [46] Personally I'm just happy that Caldari should finnally get a BS that actually looks good (lets face it the CCP art team have come on in leaps and bounds in the last few years and we won't get another Scorp or Raven). If anything I'll be using the Tier3 BS for that one reason. Nevermind the fact I have far more points in Railguns than Missiles . From the looks of the prelim stats it's going to be THE sniping Battleship which is what Caldari should have had all along. Although with 7 launcher slots on the new BC I have a horrid feeling it will significantly out-damage the Nighthawk espechilly since I think it's bonuses will be very similar (+10% Missile Velocity and -5% explosion Radius). Although the trend for the Tier 2 BCs seems to be "All Gank no Tank" and I suspect the Tier 1's will actually be able to tank better despite having less slots.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.01.22 22:13:00 - [47] Sig resolution of large guns: 400 Sig radius of Tier 3 Amarr: 470 Sig radius of Tier 3 Caldari: 500 Sig radius of Tier 3 Gallente: 485 Sig radius of Tier 3 Minmatar: 460 This means that every tier bs will take full damage vs another bs. The only thing having a smaller sig radius will help against is fighting a dreadnought or shooting a POS. Either that, or large guns are getting their sig radius upped to make frigates even harder to hit
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.01.22 23:11:00 - [48] Originally by: GlimmerMan That 7 better become an 8 before they go live with that ship otehrwise that is a seriously gimped ship compared to the rest. It's basically the same for the Gallente tier 2 BC. Getting it's turrets reduced is a step up as the next tier suggests? (And for the love of the light! Neither Gallente nor Amarr like inferior missiles on their ships! Stop building them with missiles! THAT is the first thing I am removing from my ships with Tech 3) WTB: Galllente/Amarr faction BShip Visit the MC
Noriath	Posted - 2006.01.22 23:18:00 - [49] I think tier 3 battleships will be a bit weird. For example there is always talk about how Caldari needs a railgun ship, Gallente needs a damper platform and so on - but why would those kinds of ships be the best those races have to offer at tier 3? There is always talk about an Amarr droneship - but if that turns out to be a tier 3 ship then all the sudden Amarr are better at using drones then Gallente. I'm really hoping this is implemented right, and won't completly screw with what the races are known for by introducing something that they could kind of use as the best they acctually have.
Gierling	Posted - 2006.01.22 23:28:00 - [50] Yeah like I said, these look like these will add more tools to the toolbox, although I'll reiterate that I hope they don't make the existing ships redundant. The Dominix and the Typhoon already are, although the phoon is getting looked at. Seriously the Gallente one has a low enough mass that I figure it'll primarily be a blaster boat. I just really really hope that it doesnt get a straight damage bonus, becuase thne there will be no reason to ever use a megathron. Also the grid on these is absurdly your in triple repper territory on the Amarr one, and the Gallente one could fit a full rack of t2 nuetrons and MWD a repper AND two heavy cap injectors. Its absolutely ludicrous. They also break the progression, all of the lower ships (frigs and cruisers) the top tier ship can fit a full rack of the top guns with a modest amount left over. In these your looking at having 4k grid left over at least after putting on a full rack of the Best tech two weapons. snip That's not very appropriate. - Teblin
Noriath	Posted - 2006.01.22 23:31:00 - [51] The Dominix is not that bad, but if Gallente get another Gunship I'd really like its bonus to be changed to something else and see one or two more medslots on it...
Steppa	Posted - 2006.01.22 23:37:00 - [52] From what I understand, the tier 3 battleships were not necessarily going to be bigger, more powerful ship. Instead, I seem to remember them saying the tier 3 ships would fill specific roles.
Ark Xenon	Posted - 2006.01.23 00:43:00 - [53] Edited by: Ark Xenon on 23/01/2006 00:44:22 Originally by: Gierling Minmater Tier 3: 5% Capacitor capacity 5% tracking Why its balanced: Its a minnie Apoc, a tanking fiend that still has a powerful bite to it. Hell No. And your gallente assumption sucks too. God damn i keep posting on this alt.
Gierling	Posted - 2006.01.23 00:43:00 - [54] Ok, assuming these stats are something worthwhile to base on. I believe the following bonuses make them the most balanced and interesting. Providing more flexibility overall while still fitting in the toolbox. Gallente Tier 3: 10% MWD 10% Falloff Why its Balanced: Essentially a big deimos, it will have a much easier time getting in range to hurt other ships. It won'd do as much pure damage as the Megathron but it will be more mobile. In a fleet situation it'll hit a little further for a little less damage. Caldari Tier 3: 10% Optimal range 5% Shield resistance Why its balanced: Big moa basically, won't do as much damage as the raven but till do it instantly while being able to soak up a good deal of fire. Minmater Tier 3: 5% Capacitor capacity 5% tracking Why its balanced: Its a minnie Apoc, a tanking fiend that still has a powerful bite to it. Amarr Tier 3: 5% Armour resists 10% Energy use Why its balanced: NEither tank nor gank, it can do both well. snip That's not very appropriate. - Teblin
Gierling	Posted - 2006.01.23 01:11:00 - [55] Actually the Gallente one is kind of evil, Nuetrons hitting from 30k with antimatter (Shudder). At that range tracking isn't as much of an issue, and the extra turret equalizes the damage output a bit. The mega still does a little bit more damage, but needs to get a lot closer to do it. The Minmater one is problematic, becuase as it is there is no way the it doesnt eclipse the Tempest in every concievable way. With its damage bonus the Tempest is (61.25=7.5) equivelent to 7.5 guns. So if the Minnie Tier 3 gets the same bonuses its equivelent to 10 guns and there is no reason to use the tempest, if you give it the rof bonues and ANY other bonus like range, falloff, or tracking then it STILL clearly outpaces the tempest. snip* That's not very appropriate. - Teblin
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.01.23 01:11:00 - [56] Originally by: HippoKing the problem with a tier 3 BS is that the tier 2 is already the peak of each empire's ship building ideology. When making a tier 3, you either make another ship the same (uber raven, uberpoc, uberthron, uberpest) - which would be boring - or betray each race's ideology by making their most powerful battleship a bastard ship idea (caldari's main BS as rails? WTF?) i think they should be added as another tier 1 BS When you think about it, there is some room for an uber ship... the TRUE UBER SHIP! Caldari: Micro Fighter Carrier. Can launcher like 1-3 carriers, with skills and the right mods, better damage than your average Raven (as it would be). Or lesser Damage but a big Ferox-like Tanking ability, giving either a crazy passive tank ability, or hard to break active. Gallente: Rail platform. Slower and less agile than the Megathron, but more Grid/cpu/armor. could be bastardized into a nice blaster ship like some like to do to the Moa. Minmatar: Deimos-style MWD bonuses. Fast and Agile AC platform of pwn. Would also have tracking bonuses so the guns could keep up while making those close high speed orbits. Amarr: No idea. Maybe they could fit giant speakers and bore their enemies to death with preaching and sermons about their God. I know I'd rather self destruct my pod than sit there tackled, listening to sermons. Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.01.23 01:14:00 - [57] Originally by: Ithildin Also, regarding the top-tier comment on Caldari, consider the Moa and Merlin. What about them? A kestrel with skills is going to put a major hurting on a Merlin, and a Caracal can setup to keep range on a moa if need be, or, when assault become heavy launchers, try to get under the moa's Rails and open up with lots of hurting with heavy rockets. Moa and Caracal have more of a Gap, but it's really a close call between merlin and kestrel. Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.01.23 01:21:00 - [58] Originally by: Gierling Actually the Gallente one is kind of evil, Nuetrons hitting from 30k with antimatter (Shudder). At that range tracking isn't as much of an issue, and the extra turret equalizes the damage output a bit. The mega still does a little bit more damage, but needs to get a lot closer to do it. The Minmater one is problematic, becuase as it is there is no way the it doesnt eclipse the Tempest in every concievable way. With its damage bonus the Tempest is (6*1.25=7.5) equivelent to 7.5 guns. So if the Minnie Tier 3 gets the same bonuses its equivelent to 10 guns and there is no reason to use the tempest, if you give it the rof bonues and ANY other bonus like range, falloff, or tracking then it STILL clearly outpaces the tempest. Judging from the placeholder stats,, it's 10% bonus to something, and I bet it's ROF.
Acwron	Posted - 2006.01.23 01:33:00 - [59] Originally by: Gierling 10% ROF would be interesting, would help artillery and autos. But wouldnt retire the tempest I would approve. I think the max locked targets 3 is there on purpose.
Urza Rast	Posted - 2006.01.23 01:45:00 - [60] I know this is still a work in progress but please whoever keeps taking the nerf bat and beating the hell out of the Amarr. Just put the nerf bat down and back away slowly.
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.01.23 03:22:00 - [61] Originally by: Acwron Originally by: Gierling 10% ROF would be interesting, would help artillery and autos. But wouldnt retire the tempest I would approve. I think the max locked targets 3 is there on purpose. Yea, i noticed that. It does suck, but why bother having more than 3 thing locked when you can shred them to piece
Gierling	Posted - 2006.01.23 03:42:00 - [62] Honostly a lot here screams "Work in progress" to me. THis thread is useful though, it should remind CCP that "We are watching" and that we want interesting new ships that don't crowd out the old ones. (And making the Tempest and Domi actually able to take a place in the battle formation would be nice too). snip That's not very appropriate. - Teblin
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.01.23 04:15:00 - [63] To be honest, They should ask 'well' known pvper, using each race ships, and get some info from them regarding what would be best for the tier 3 bs, Bonus wise. Not questioning CCP devs ability to come up with ideas but yea.. maybe i am.
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol	Posted - 2006.01.23 04:45:00 - [64] with those sig radii a Raven is gonna have a field day with those things hehe --------------------------------------------- <Make ECM Burst useful> ECM Burst Idea!
Shadowsword	Posted - 2006.01.23 08:12:00 - [65] Not really. With a sig radius already above 400 torps won't do more damage, and rage torps are still going to do 50% of their damage, max. It's gun users that will appreciate that kind of sig radius... According to those stats, I don't think any of them is significantly weaker thant the others, but their high mass and low speed worry me a little. They might be too slow and sluggish to be really usefulls in anything other that a fleet battle.
Gierling	Posted - 2006.01.23 08:26:00 - [66] The Gallente one actually has a very reasonable mass. And the sig thing is important, it balances out thier extra hitpoints and it makes them a targetpainting vigil away from being absolutely slapped by dreads. snip That's not very appropriate. - Teblin
Shin Ra	Posted - 2006.01.23 08:29:00 - [67] With all these sp I have in missles now, I seriuosly how they dont put out a caldari rail boat bs. Missles 4tw
My grandfather	Posted - 2006.01.23 08:33:00 - [68] I'm a bit surprised about the 7-1 slot lay-out of the Tier 3 amarr. What can 1 launcher slot ever do except launch defenders? I love the tanking options though... 8 lowslots and armor to spare If I had to make a choice, I'd make the lay-out 8-1, for more options. But then again, if I had the choice, It'd be a waaaaay-overpowered missile-spamming ubertanker
Waut	Posted - 2006.01.23 08:48:00 - [69] Originally by: B'laze plz plz plz make the tier3 caldari BS look like a finished scorp I was thinking the same way. A scorp with 2 wings so it gets somewhat symmetric. It'll look badass Plan for galaxy domination: Step 1. Steal lots of underpants Step 2. ... Step 3. Get declared as Eve Emperor
Vina	Posted - 2006.01.23 09:06:00 - [70] Originally by: booh Edited by: booh on 22/01/2006 11:40:31 Edited by: booh on 22/01/2006 11:38:06 taken from TQ db tier 3 BS Caldari: 8/7/5 7 Turret 4 Launcher 19000 grid, 750 cpu 6800 shield hp 5000 cap hp 100k target range, 50m3 drone Minmatar: 8/6/6 8 Turret 3 Launcher 19750 grid, 650 cpu 6400 shield hp 6000 armor hp 4800 cap hp 82500 target range, 80m3 drone Amarr: 8/4/8 7 Turret 1 Launcher 21250 grid, 550 cpu 6800 armor hp 5500 cap hp 87500 target range, 75m3 drone Gallente: 8/5/7 8 turret 1 launcher 20750 grid, 600 cpu 6400 armor hp 5250 cap hp 92500 target range, 200m3 drone ------------------- tier 2 BC Caldari: 8/6/4 7 launcher 3 turret 800 grid, 525 cpu 3125 shield hp 2250 cap hp 25 m3 drone Minmatar: 8/4/6 7 turret 3 launcher 1300 grid, 400 cpu 2813 shield hp 2500 armor hp 2250 cap hp 30m3 drone Amarr: 8/3/7 8 turret 1500 grid, 350 cpu 3125 armor hp 2500 cap hp 50m3 drone Gallente: 8/5/5 6 turret 1 launcher 1100 grid, 400 cpu 2813 armor hp 2250 cap hp 250m3 drone --------------- no bonuses and still needs balancing imo, but there are some interesting things... like 7 launcher BC for caldari, 250m3 gallente BC, 8 turret amarr BC... 8 turret minnie BS!, caldari turret BS... BS BPO price should be 1.5b, and production cost like 110m, maybe 120m... Real good job copying and pasting my post on the atuk forum,****et ----------------------------------- btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai
Jurushy	Posted - 2006.01.23 09:23:00 - [71] nice and in my opinion i like the new min tier 3 BS it follow the way of DAMAGE (read storyline) lets give my one sugestion Tier 2 BS in turrets (caldary get 7 turrets whit tier 3) amarr apoc has 8 thorn 7 turrests so i cant really get the point wyh the other race have mor guns on the ships this misslead the storyline so in my opinion the minmatar republic do something and create the new real gunship and the older ships get other uses
Mogubu	Posted - 2006.01.23 10:03:00 - [72] Rails on the caldari thingy would just be sad, nothing else. But if it is to be, can there PLZ!!! be a missile AF to play with? I may look Gallente, but I can use missiles, and not much else. Raven is fun and all, but alternatives would be a good thing...
Crellion	Posted - 2006.01.23 10:21:00 - [73] Originally by: Mogubu Rails on the caldari thingy would just be sad, nothing else. But if it is to be, can there PLZ!!! be a missile AF to play with? I may look Gallente, but I can use missiles, and not much else. Raven is fun and all, but alternatives would be a good thing... Generally speaking I wouldnt reply this, I d just put it down to ignorance. However I saw many posts like this here and there. Some of them even by people I know are accomplished Caldari pilots like Hippoking. So lets clarify this: Callente fight with blasters and drones Caldari fight with rails and missles This simple proposition is backed by every single ship in those 2 races or close (referring to ship bonuses e.t.c.) The top tier in every category almost is a rail boat. Merlin > kestrel, Moa > Caracal, Harpy > Hawk, Desy has rails, Ferox has rail bonuses etc etc etc. That chain was broken only when it came to BSs. We had Scorpion for BB and Raven for Caracal but ... where was the Moa??????? This is what we hope will be fixed with tier 3 BS and its long overdue. Now it may be that some Caldari pilots decided to go for misles only (since they are quicker to train for -MUCH QUICKER-) and now they hte the idea of the rail BS. Boo to you If you are Gallente and you only train drones you cant use the best ships of the race (or some of them). Same for Caldari who only train missles. Harpy is probably the best AF in the game, I guess therefore you at least trained small rails... well catch up :) This is a long coming reward for the Caldari pilots who trained L rails (even if they had to use them on Megathrons so far) and the rest of you just make sure you catch uup quick pls. This will possibly be one of the best BSs in the game -of all races- so pls take advantage of this instead of nagging. Thank You
Mogubu	Posted - 2006.01.23 10:41:00 - [74] Originally by: Crellion Generally speaking I wouldnt reply this, I d just put it down to ignorance. However I saw many posts like this here and there. Some of them even by people I know are accomplished Caldari pilots like Hippoking. So lets clarify this: Callente fight with blasters and drones Caldari fight with rails and missles ... Thank You That is a fact. Doesnt change the fact that I think it's sad if it ends up being a railboat, since missiles are just, well, cooler. And again, a missile AF really is not too much to ask now, is it? Just change some slots on the hawk.
Rodj Blake	Posted - 2006.01.23 10:43:00 - [75] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Maybe the Raven should get boosted to be the teir 3 Caldari BS, and the rail one made the T2? It really wouldn't make any sense for the best BS for a missile race to be a rail platform. That is unlikely to happen, as the increase in mineral costs would be be exploitable. Anyway, the tier 3 Caldari cruiser is a rail platform. Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori
Crellion	Posted - 2006.01.23 10:45:00 - [76] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Ithildin Also, regarding the top-tier comment on Caldari, consider the Moa and Merlin. What about them? A kestrel with skills is going to put a major hurting on a Merlin, and a Caracal can setup to keep range on a moa if need be, or, when assault become heavy launchers, try to get under the moa's Rails and open up with lots of hurting with heavy rockets. Moa and Caracal have more of a Gap, but it's really a close call between merlin and kestrel. This and the post you made two posts above this one show that you are mixed up / dont understand the ships. Check agai tiers and bonuses for both Gallente and Valdari carefully. After 30 mins in the items database it should be obvious for you.
Trelennen	Posted - 2006.01.23 12:31:00 - [77] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: GlimmerMan That 7 better become an 8 before they go live with that ship otehrwise that is a seriously gimped ship compared to the rest. It's basically the same for the Gallente tier 2 BC. Getting it's turrets reduced is a step up as the next tier suggests? (And for the love of the light! Neither Gallente nor Amarr like inferior missiles on their ships! Stop building them with missiles! THAT is the first thing I am removing from my ships with Tech 3) With those stats, the Gallente Tier 2 BC would prolly be insane, with the ability to fit a nifty passive shield tank, and lots of drones (look at the 250m¦ drone bay), while not loosing one slot like the other drone boats. And with such a bay, it'd be likely it'd get drone bonus. Tier 2 doesn't mean everything better than tier 1 ya know? Originally by: Noriath I think tier 3 battleships will be a bit weird. For example there is always talk about how Caldari needs a railgun ship, Gallente needs a damper platform and so on - but why would those kinds of ships be the best those races have to offer at tier 3? Well, Merlin is the top caldari frigate, with kestrel in the same "tier" but slightly behind, griffin beeing lower tier. Moa is the tier 3 cruiser, caracal tier 2, with blackbird being tier 1. Transpose that at BS levels and you have scorpion as Tier 1, Raven as tier 2, and sniper railboat as tier 3. As for a 10% rof on minnie which would help both artys and ACs, well... AC would have a hard time, chewing threw ammo like never, and using a good bunch of cap with such a bonus... Basicaly, Tempest is a big rupture, meant for long range (although it can't really fit that well on long range setup). The tier 3 minmatar BS would really be good as a big stabber, fast AC boat, more with damage bonus than rof bonus, and good speed. ===== !!! Fix SB - Love for AFs - Fix drones AI !!!
Roke E'raith	Posted - 2006.01.23 14:08:00 - [78] Edited by: Roke E''raith on 23/01/2006 14:12:35 Originally by: Urza Rast I know this is still a work in progress but please whoever keeps taking the nerf bat and beating the hell out of the Amarr. Just put the nerf bat down and back away slowly. Hehe, I totally agree. Originally by: Gierling <snip> Amarr Tier 3: 5% Armour resists 10% Energy use Why its balanced: NEither tank nor gank, it can do both well. Well, I agree on the armor resist part, but isn't time for the Amarr to actually get extra damage? 5% Armour resists 10% Damage bonus on large energy turrets Originally by: tenp1 If you compare the current BS to the cruisers you get Armageddon = Omen Apocalypse = Maller <snip> So that leaves For amarr either high armour remote cap transferer like an augoror, or an EW drone ship like the Arbitrator. An arb like ship would be my choice, though it may be a bit too similar to the Dominix. <snip> I also saw this connection, and I agree that an Arbritrator ship would be interesting. I fail to see how an Augoror type of battleship would work, really. /Roke
Sean Drake	Posted - 2006.01.23 14:26:00 - [79] Can one of the caldari ships plz have a dmg bonus non of this optimal range crap
Nafri	Posted - 2006.01.23 14:37:00 - [80] with only -10% ROF the new matari battleship will struggle to find a place in fleets, it is only like a tempest with 33% more alphastrike, but well 6 midslots, more ECM
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.01.23 16:46:00 - [81] Edited by: Sarmaul on 23/01/2006 16:46:17 Originally by: Nafri with only -10% ROF the new matari battleship will struggle to find a place in fleets, it is only like a tempest with 33% more alphastrike, but well 6 midslots, more ECM erm what? it does more dps, more alpha strike and has more ecm capabilities and you think it's going to struggle to find a place in fleet combat?
Nafri	Posted - 2006.01.23 17:02:00 - [82] Originally by: Sarmaul Edited by: Sarmaul on 23/01/2006 16:46:17 Originally by: Nafri with only -10% ROF the new matari battleship will struggle to find a place in fleets, it is only like a tempest with 33% more alphastrike, but well 6 midslots, more ECM erm what? it does more dps, more alpha strike and has more ecm capabilities and you think it's going to struggle to find a place in fleet combat? jo, 3 targets means less ECM, and it makes fighting increadible hard. Try to unlock something in lag-online aka fleetbattle is hard but anyway, Im a pro at minnie whinage
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.01.23 17:12:00 - [83] Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Sarmaul Edited by: Sarmaul on 23/01/2006 16:46:17 Originally by: Nafri with only -10% ROF the new matari battleship will struggle to find a place in fleets, it is only like a tempest with 33% more alphastrike, but well 6 midslots, more ECM erm what? it does more dps, more alpha strike and has more ecm capabilities and you think it's going to struggle to find a place in fleet combat? jo, 3 targets means less ECM, and it makes fighting increadible hard. Try to unlock something in lag-online aka fleetbattle is hard but anyway, Im a pro at minnie whinage gah only 3 locked targets?!! Ah well, you could always drop a turret and fit an auto targeter (+2 targets) - it still still outdamage the pest :)
Daxes	Posted - 2006.01.23 17:14:00 - [84] Another possiblity for the Amarr BS boni would be 5% to Large Energy Weapon RoF and 5% to Large Energy Weapon Capacitor or 5% to tracking speed. This would mean it has a lower Alphastrike than an Apoc but could be a better Armageddon (the current pic in the DB would fit to that).
Khaldorn Murino	Posted - 2006.01.23 17:24:00 - [85] Whatever they do, im just praying they dont do the standard split HP and split slots that they usually lumber Matari ships with and then give it a few more m/s. I mean, they've done that throughout the Capital ship design process and it just strikes me as reading from the book of minmatar design rather than an original design. I'd like a Minmatar ship that is completely devoted to one task. That would be a difference for us. Hell, even one that has a dedicated tanking layout would be nice. Something original would be lovely. - - The fire burns..
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.01.23 17:26:00 - [86] Originally by: Khaldorn Murino Whatever they do, im just praying they dont do the standard split HP and split slots that they usually lumber Matari ships with and then give it a few more m/s. I mean, they've done that throughout the Capital ship design process and it just strikes me as reading from the book of minmatar design rather than an original design. I'd like a Minmatar ship that is completely devoted to one task. That would be a difference for us. Hell, even one that has a dedicated tanking layout would be nice. Something original would be lovely. 8/6/6 by the looks of it I would still kill for a 8/7/5 on a minny ship but it looks like the caldari railboat is getting that instead.
Khaldorn Murino	Posted - 2006.01.23 17:37:00 - [87] Why did I see that coming... Cmon guys, show me some love. How about a Minmatar ship that armour tanks like a b!tch. Or a Minmatar ship that cant tank for turd (well.. not counting the existing ones) but is bloody fast (a real bloody fast) and bloody hard hitting (tracking bonus etc etc). - - The fire burns..

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