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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
74
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
My Dream wrote:i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback
Wardecs.
Bounties.
Ganking them yourself.
Hiring merc corps. |
Zane Lowe
Aliastra Gallente Federation
131
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
My Dream wrote:and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers
No one besides you wants a new mechanic to punish them, because current methods are fine. |
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
74
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:44:00 -
[33] - Quote
My Dream wrote:and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers
People are not required to come up with a better idea in order to shoot down a bad idea. Your idea can be bad all on its own.
"How can we get Fluffy out of the tree - the branches won't support our weight and we can't get up high enough with a ladder!"
"Cut down the tree!"
"Bad idea - it would fall on the house, and probably kill Fluffy, too!"
"Well, unless you have a better idea, I'm going to go get the chainsaw..."
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14186
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:44:00 -
[34] - Quote
My Dream wrote:i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback
We already have the tools, you just don't know how to use some of them.
The most important tool all of us have to avoid being scammed is called a brain, closely followed by actually reading things like contracts and doing some research. In game there's the blocklist which you can use to stop scams appearing in chat, the standings mechanic, bounties, wardecs, knowing how margin trading works, etc.
99% of every scam ever relies on the mark being greedy (or drunk in Eve), if the mark isn't greedy, the scam doesn't work. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4228
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:45:00 -
[35] - Quote
My Dream wrote:and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers
Find them and shoot them. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3736
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:46:00 -
[36] - Quote
Zane Lowe wrote:Let's put a system in place which is highly abusable, will likely harm innocent players, and will take up a ton of GM time to solve something that isn't a problem.
How could that possibly go wrong.
CCP has copy-pasta trained to level 5 for anything that does not violate the TOS/EULA. That probably deals with 99.5% of tickets they receive for "scamming".
The "system" only goes wrong when a player does not engage their brain before acting. Oddly enough this seems to be an increasing and not a decreasing problem. You should blame parents and a lack of sunshine, you can't fix or patch stupid.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1708
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:46:00 -
[37] - Quote
My Dream wrote:and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers
You should try holding your breath and stamping your feet. I hear that gets good results. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Haulie Berry
1118
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:46:00 -
[38] - Quote
My Dream wrote:and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers
It turns out that you don't get to punish people who aren't doing anything wrong. |
My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Elliavir wrote:My Dream wrote:i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback
Wardecs. Bounties. Ganking them yourself. Hiring merc corps.
1st there normally alts in npc corps
2nd bounties allthough usefull . are usless for this because concord will protect the scammer when trying to collect
3rd see above
4 nd see above again =p
and non of this removes there illl gotten gains from there wallet
stuns me the amount of people who fully endorse un ethical isk making . the game prides its self on realism yet we have noway to punish perpitrators of a criminal act and it is criminal by any yard stick |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
702
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:49:00 -
[40] - Quote
ooh gimme gimme :) I can have fun with this. |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14188
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:49:00 -
[41] - Quote
My Dream wrote:Elliavir wrote:My Dream wrote:i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback
Wardecs. Bounties. Ganking them yourself. Hiring merc corps. 1st there normally alts in npc corps 2nd bounties allthough usefull . are usless for this because concord will protect the scammer when trying to collect 3rd see above 4 nd see above again =p and non of this removes there illl gotten gains from there wallet stuns me the amount of people who fully endorse un ethical isk making . the game prides its self on realism yet we have noway to punish perpitrators of a criminal act and it is criminal by any yard stick Not CCPs and their stick is the only one that counts. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
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My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:My Dream wrote:Elliavir wrote:My Dream wrote:i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback
Wardecs. Bounties. Ganking them yourself. Hiring merc corps. 1st there normally alts in npc corps 2nd bounties allthough usefull . are usless for this because concord will protect the scammer when trying to collect 3rd see above 4 nd see above again =p and non of this removes there illl gotten gains from there wallet stuns me the amount of people who fully endorse un ethical isk making . the game prides its self on realism yet we have noway to punish perpitrators of a criminal act and it is criminal by any yard stick Not CCPs and their stick is the only one that counts.
not asking for GM intervention asking for a tool within the convines of the game that will hurt those who have a risk free money faucet |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
6117
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:56:00 -
[43] - Quote
Did someone not get their doubled ISK?
Was that buy order for that too good to be true price not true?
Did you wanted all their stuffs for 1 trit?
If that happened I feel bad for you son, but ive got 99 problems but a scam aint one.
In the future, if you think something is a scam, use my trusted third party services. Ill take and hold your ISK, and then thouroughly investigate the 'scam' using my patented and proprietary techniques, and only if my exacting criteria are met will I initiate the transaction, and return the goods to you via contract with the cost of my 5% commission. I have many many satisfied customers. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4229
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:57:00 -
[44] - Quote
My Dream wrote:not asking for GM intervention asking for a tool within the convines of the game that will hurt those who have a risk free money faucet
Oh, oh, oh, I know the answer here.
Stop giving them ISK. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
464
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
By the same standard, begging is also risk-free. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14188
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
My Dream wrote: not asking for GM intervention asking for a tool within the convines of the game that will hurt those who have a risk free money faucet
Firstly it's not a faucet, scamming generates no new isk, it's just a transfer of funds. Secondly the tools are already there, you just refuse to see or use them inventively.
Now tell us again why a scammer should be punished for taking advantage of another players greed and ignorance, by using the existing mechanics and tools in an inventive manner? I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
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Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
74
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:58:00 -
[47] - Quote
My Dream wrote:Elliavir wrote:My Dream wrote:i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback
Wardecs. Bounties. Ganking them yourself. Hiring merc corps. 1st there normally alts in npc corps 2nd bounties allthough usefull . are usless for this because concord will protect the scammer when trying to collect 3rd see above 4 nd see above again =p and non of this removes there illl gotten gains from there wallet stuns me the amount of people who fully endorse un ethical isk making . the game prides its self on realism yet we have noway to punish perpitrators of a criminal act and it is criminal by any yard stick
CONCORD doesn't protect ANYBODY. Please see some threads from high-sec miners if you don't agree. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
715
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:59:00 -
[48] - Quote
Capsuleers (players) setting CONCORD (godmode NPCs) upon one another? For something as vague as a scam? Which is indistinguishable from a normal contract or trade where the code is concerned?
IDDQD no thanks! |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14188
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Posted - 2013.10.03 17:02:00 -
[49] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:IDDQD +1 for the cheat code
I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
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My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
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Posted - 2013.10.03 17:17:00 -
[50] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:My Dream wrote: not asking for GM intervention asking for a tool within the convines of the game that will hurt those who have a risk free money faucet
Firstly it's not a faucet, scamming generates no new isk, it's just a transfer of funds. Secondly the tools are already there, you just refuse to see or use them inventively. Now tell us again why a scammer should be punished for taking advantage of another players greed and ignorance, by using the existing mechanics and tools in an inventive manner?
nm matter how inventive my imagination is at using the provided systems there is no way to prevent him him gaining from un ethical isk making his scammed isk will be far off on his alt
he should be punished because he has gained isk in an unethical way if the game is going to pride its self on being a realistic sandbox that does not equal chaoes . the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail .
you cant have it one way and not another if your going to create a game to be as realistic as possible . eve in many ways is pretty much a simulator you gotta have realistic punishment to for misbehavour and in any civilised society be it virtual scamming is a unethical act
its unbalanced that there is indeed tools to scam but none to protect yourself apart from your own keen eye fairs fair the tools are there to scam wheres mine to get payback
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Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
646
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Posted - 2013.10.03 17:21:00 -
[51] - Quote
CCP really needs to implement a new skill for avoiding scams. We can call it "Critical Thinking", give it a x24 training multiplier, and have it use Charisma and Memory for attributes. Base score, no implants figured in.
At level 5, it will prevent you from completing any transaction that may result in being scammed. Make it so it autotrains to 5 after being scammed twice, and remove the ability to cancel it out of the queue. Make sure this happens on all the player's alts, just to make sure.
Maybe, at that point, people will finally stop falling for scams. Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
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Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
74
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Posted - 2013.10.03 17:24:00 -
[52] - Quote
My Dream wrote:[ ... snip ... the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail .
... snip ... any civilised society ... snip ...
You presume EVE is simulating Europe or something... EVE is more like Somalia or someplace else where governmental authority has broken down or is minimal and you rely on your own wits / hired thugs / joining into a larger group to protect your interests.
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4229
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Posted - 2013.10.03 17:27:00 -
[53] - Quote
My Dream wrote:the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail .
And those rules are made and enforced by people using force or the threat of force. Not by magical space pixies shooting nukes.
You are free to declare that scamming is against the rules in EVE, and then enforce your rule using force or the threat of force.
Stop asking the sand in the box to animate and smack Billy just because he knocked down your castle, just go over yourself and knock down his. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
404
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Posted - 2013.10.03 17:28:00 -
[54] - Quote
My Dream wrote:we know CCP is very reluctant to interfere in this glorious sandbox we have here through GM action action so why dont they put in a system where we can report the scam to concord for a modest fee
Concord would seek out and shoot the offenders and confiscate the scammed isk as evidence (podding would be preffered) this way there would be in game roleplayey consquences to scamming instead of it being totally risk free as it is
it would not break the taboo of non inteferance with the sandbox but would enable payback in a game way
Remove insurance. |
Maxpie
MUSE Buy-n-Large Metaphysical Utopian Society Enterprises
334
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Posted - 2013.10.03 17:34:00 -
[55] - Quote
Op, there is no way to 'punish' scammers. They are, for the most part, on alts that do not ever undock. That's just the way it is and will be. Even local spam bots, extensively documented by none other than Chribba, barely draw a glance from CCP. On the other hand, 99% of scams are easily spotted and all are avoidable.
The only actual resolution would be to get rid of alts (not going to happen - the flood of tears would send Iceland to the bottom of the sea) and to get rid of second accounts (I doubt that would even be possible, and CCP certainly would not want to have fewer subs).
Hiding behind alts and such is the weakest part of the Eve immersion, but it's here to stay. If you were scammed, just accept your loss and move on. Think of it like parking tickets. They are generally just a gotcha and overly costly for even a minor infraction, but they can be avoided rather easily.
No good deed goes unpunished |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14189
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Posted - 2013.10.03 17:35:00 -
[56] - Quote
My Dream wrote: nm matter how inventive my imagination is at using the provided systems there is no way to prevent him him gaining from un ethical isk making his scammed isk will be far off on his alt
Yes there is, it's called don't give them isk by not being a dumb victim.
Quote:he should be punished because he has gained isk in an unethical way if the game is going to pride its self on being a realistic sandbox that does not equal chaoes . the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail . Bad comparison, Earth doesn't have immortals running around in vehicles armed with weapons that can throw volkswagens over 100km. Scamming is also a viable business practice on Earth, we call it banking and politics, and people who succeed in them get rewarded.
Quote:you cant have it one way and not another if your going to create a game to be as realistic as possible . eve in many ways is pretty much a simulator you gotta have realistic punishment to for misbehavour and in any civilised society be it virtual scamming is a unethical act That's where you're going wrong in your assumptions, Eve is anything but civilised
Quote:its unbalanced that there is indeed tools to scam but none to protect yourself apart from your own keen eye fairs fair the tools are there to scam wheres mine to get payback
The tools aren't there specifically for scammers they're there for everybody, they've just figured out how to use them to deprive the greedy and ignorant of their possessions. The tools for payback are already there, you just haven't figured out how to use them effectively. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
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My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
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Posted - 2013.10.03 17:37:00 -
[57] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:My Dream wrote:the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail . And those rules are made and enforced by people using force or the threat of force. Not by magical space pixies shooting nukes. You are free to declare that scamming is against the rules in EVE, and then enforce your rule using force or the threat of force. Stop asking the sand in the box to animate and smack Billy just because he knocked down your castle, just go over yourself and knock down his.
i like your post and it has alot of truth but how does a simple individual enforce there will and how do i do it with noway to really hurt them where it counts in the wallet |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4229
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Posted - 2013.10.03 17:40:00 -
[58] - Quote
My Dream wrote:i like your post and it has alot of truth but how does a simple individual enforce there will and how do i do it with noway to really hurt them where it counts in the wallet
Shoot them Scam them Steal from them
Ruin their next scam and so on "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14189
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Posted - 2013.10.03 17:41:00 -
[59] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:My Dream wrote:i like your post and it has alot of truth but how does a simple individual enforce there will and how do i do it with noway to really hurt them where it counts in the wallet Shoot them Scam them Steal from them :effort: I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
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Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
646
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Posted - 2013.10.03 17:41:00 -
[60] - Quote
My Dream wrote:RubyPorto wrote:My Dream wrote:the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail . And those rules are made and enforced by people using force or the threat of force. Not by magical space pixies shooting nukes. You are free to declare that scamming is against the rules in EVE, and then enforce your rule using force or the threat of force. Stop asking the sand in the box to animate and smack Billy just because he knocked down your castle, just go over yourself and knock down his. i like your post and it has alot of truth but how does a simple individual enforce there will and how do i do it with noway to really hurt them where it counts in the wallet
Here's a way. I used to do this back in my anti-scammer days.
Go find the item the scammer is using for his margin scam. Don't buy it from the scammer, of course. Use THAT to attempt to fill the obviously margin-traded buy orders the scammer posted.
I got...quite a few rage-posts out of that.
You can also put your own items up for sale at a better price, or put in a better buy order than the scammers offer (I recommend using margin trading for that).
See, THREE quick ways to "hurt them in the wallet" if you just put in the ~effort~. Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
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