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My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
we know CCP is very reluctant to interfere in this glorious sandbox we have here through GM action action so why dont they put in a system where we can report the scam to concord for a modest fee
Concord would seek out and shoot the offenders and confiscate the scammed isk as evidence (podding would be preffered) this way there would be in game roleplayey consquences to scamming instead of it being totally risk free as it is
it would not break the taboo of non inteferance with the sandbox but would enable payback in a game way |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
813
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 15:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
How does a 2004 character not understand how bad this idea is????
Also, its a sandbox, hire a merc!
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
73
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 15:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
My Dream wrote:we know CCP is very reluctant to interfere in this glorious sandbox we have here through GM action action so why dont they put in a system where we can report the scam to concord for a modest fee
Concord would seek out and shoot the offenders and confiscate the scammed isk as evidence (podding would be preffered) this way there would be in game roleplayey consquences to scamming instead of it being totally risk free as it is
it would not break the taboo of non inteferance with the sandbox but would enable payback in a game way
You can already put a bounty on anyone - put enough on them and they become worth ganking even in high-sec with CONCORD response.
You can also gank them yourself - and view the ship you will lose if you do it in high-sec as the fee you pay to express your opinion on their business dealings.
The fundamental problem is that there is no way for CONCORD to identify a 'real scam' vs. a 'crappy but legit deal' vs. a 'guy falsely claiming scam to grief someone'. So really what this would be if implemented is a way to place bounty on someone that causes the NPCs to also attack them. And that seems gamebreaking to me.
Obviously none of this matters if the scammers stay in station. Which they can easily do, and conduct all their legit business and flying-around business on an alt. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1159
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 15:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
There should be a system to report people who post terrible suggestions on the forums to CONCORD. |
My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 15:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Elliavir wrote:My Dream wrote:we know CCP is very reluctant to interfere in this glorious sandbox we have here through GM action action so why dont they put in a system where we can report the scam to concord for a modest fee
Concord would seek out and shoot the offenders and confiscate the scammed isk as evidence (podding would be preffered) this way there would be in game roleplayey consquences to scamming instead of it being totally risk free as it is
it would not break the taboo of non inteferance with the sandbox but would enable payback in a game way You can already put a bounty on anyone - put enough on them and they become worth ganking even in high-sec with CONCORD response. You can also gank them yourself - and view the ship you will lose if you do it in high-sec as the fee you pay to express your opinion on their business dealings. The fundamental problem is that there is no way for CONCORD to identify a 'real scam' vs. a 'crappy but legit deal' vs. a 'guy falsely claiming scam to grief someone'. So really what this would be if implemented is a way to place bounty on someone that causes the NPCs to also attack them. And that seems gamebreaking to me. Obviously none of this matters if the scammers stay in station. Which they can easily do, and conduct all their legit business and flying-around business on an alt.
repeated reports would get flagged a simple api check with ccp tools would validate a scam and then its open season im not suggesting a single report from one grudgy would trigger it |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1248
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 15:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
My Dream wrote:we know CCP is very reluctant to interfere in this glorious sandbox we have here through GM action action so why dont they put in a system where we can report the scam to concord for a modest fee
Concord would seek out and shoot the offenders and confiscate the scammed isk as evidence (podding would be preffered) this way there would be in game roleplayey consquences to scamming instead of it being totally risk free as it is
it would not break the taboo of non inteferance with the sandbox but would enable payback in a game way
You can already do this by using the bounty system and pay concord so they close their eyes or look on the other side when the one claiming the bounty puts the misery on them.
The main issue you have, which is not a small one in this game is those characters mostly are 50K sp characters or slightly more, often bots, and NEVER undock.
But as you see it's another issue. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 15:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:My Dream wrote:we know CCP is very reluctant to interfere in this glorious sandbox we have here through GM action action so why dont they put in a system where we can report the scam to concord for a modest fee
Concord would seek out and shoot the offenders and confiscate the scammed isk as evidence (podding would be preffered) this way there would be in game roleplayey consquences to scamming instead of it being totally risk free as it is
it would not break the taboo of non inteferance with the sandbox but would enable payback in a game way You can already do this by using the bounty system and pay concord so they close their eyes or look on the other side when the one claiming the bounty puts the misery on them. The main issue you have, which is not a small one in this game is those characters mostly are 50K sp characters or slightly more, often bots, and NEVER undock. But as you see it's another issue.
API would validate which character the isk went to from the scam alt thats where the confiscation bit kicks in |
Victor Dathar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
123
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
I wish I could report your posting to Concord. ^^^ lol that post is so bad you should get back 2 GBS m8 o7 |
My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Victor Dathar wrote:I wish I could report your posting to Concord.
come up with a better idea to deal with scamming . nothing should be risk free in eve
listening ..............
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Aurilen Baxtab
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
A word about bounties - put a high enough bounty on someone and they will log in on an alt account and pod themselves to get the reward. |
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Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
464
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Space police force named after grapes, avenge me! |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14185
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
My Dream wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:My Dream wrote:we know CCP is very reluctant to interfere in this glorious sandbox we have here through GM action action so why dont they put in a system where we can report the scam to concord for a modest fee
Concord would seek out and shoot the offenders and confiscate the scammed isk as evidence (podding would be preffered) this way there would be in game roleplayey consquences to scamming instead of it being totally risk free as it is
it would not break the taboo of non inteferance with the sandbox but would enable payback in a game way You can already do this by using the bounty system and pay concord so they close their eyes or look on the other side when the one claiming the bounty puts the misery on them. The main issue you have, which is not a small one in this game is those characters mostly are 50K sp characters or slightly more, often bots, and NEVER undock. But as you see it's another issue. API would validate which character the isk went to from the scam alt thats where the confiscation bit kicks in Nope, that's a terrible idea. Scam victims usually have noone to blame but themselves, because the scam relies on the victim being greedy, and often as not stupid as well. I've been there myself, best part of a billion gone on a margin trading scam, because I was greedy.
Trawling through the database to find out where isk has gone is probably quite labour intensive and time consuming, and as such should be reserved for going after people who are breaking the EULA. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1707
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
How about you not fall for scams? Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3736
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:How does a 2004 character not understand how bad this idea is????
What is the Character Bazaar for 200 Alex.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:How about you not fall for scams?
so you think scamming should be the only risk free money maker in eve =p
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My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
still waiting for a better idea all i see is unhappy mains of scam alts |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14186
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
My Dream wrote:still waiting for a better idea all i see is unhappy mains of scam alts How much did you lose? All I'm seeing is an unhappy scam victim, who can't take responsibility for being greedy.
Also Features and Ideas would be a better place to have posted, you tend to get a better class of ridicule in there. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
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Velicitia
Emergent Avionics
1628
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Aurilen Baxtab wrote:A word about bounties - put a high enough bounty on someone and they will log in on an alt account and pod themselves to get the reward.
well, 20% of the value of their loss, anyway. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3736
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:My Dream wrote:still waiting for a better idea all i see is unhappy mains of scam alts How much did you lose? All I'm seeing is an unhappy scam victim, who can't take responsibility for being greedy.
I'm guessing OP fell victim to the margin trading scam, so many players are doing it now. It's like an IQ test for working in trade hubs. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1707
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
My Dream wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:How about you not fall for scams? so you think scamming should be the only risk free money maker in eve =p
It's hardly risk free. It takes time and isk to cultivate scams. They don't always work out.
As it is, the point remains: stop being ignorant, and educate yourself about scams. Stop falling for them, and you will no longer care who sits all day, docked up and scamming.
Alternatively, there are a vast number of medicated ointments designed to ease mild discomfort in the perianal area. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
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My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:My Dream wrote:still waiting for a better idea all i see is unhappy mains of scam alts How much did you lose? All I'm seeing is an unhappy scam victim, who can't take responsibility for being greedy. Also Features and Ideas would be a better place to have posted, you tend to get a better class of ridicule in there.
so you fully endorse the idea that making isk in eve should be completely risk free
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1707
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
My Dream wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:My Dream wrote:still waiting for a better idea all i see is unhappy mains of scam alts How much did you lose? All I'm seeing is an unhappy scam victim, who can't take responsibility for being greedy. Also Features and Ideas would be a better place to have posted, you tend to get a better class of ridicule in there. so you fully endorse the idea that making isk in eve should be completely risk free
Probably about as much as he endorses the idea that pissing and moaning on the forums as a result of your own ignorance should be risk free. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
keep the personal insults at me going guys . gotta love the endangered scammers |
Baaldor
In Igne Morim
96
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
My Dream wrote:Victor Dathar wrote:I wish I could report your posting to Concord. come up with a better idea to deal with scamming . nothing should be risk free in eve listening ..............
Yeah, do like the rest of us..read. Pay attention. Rub a few brain cells together. |
SpoonRECKLESS
Veldspar United
56
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
One word NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Blue
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14186
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
My Dream wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:My Dream wrote:still waiting for a better idea all i see is unhappy mains of scam alts How much did you lose? All I'm seeing is an unhappy scam victim, who can't take responsibility for being greedy. Also Features and Ideas would be a better place to have posted, you tend to get a better class of ridicule in there. so you fully endorse the idea that making isk in eve should be completely risk free Nope, you're kind of jumping to conclusions there. CCP implicitly allow scamming, it's up to us, the players, to provide the consequences. It's also up to us, the players, to take responsibility for their own ignorance and greed. If you'd read one of my previous posts you would see that I have been the victim of a scam to the tune of the best part of a billion isk. Do you know what I did about it? I congratulated the scammer and then asked how he'd done it, I learnt a valuable lesson in how the market works in the process.
Knowledge is power, ignorance is not bliss, it's ignorance. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
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Zane Lowe
Aliastra Gallente Federation
131
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
Let's put a system in place which is highly abusable, will likely harm innocent players, and will take up a ton of GM time to solve something that isn't a problem.
How could that possibly go wrong. |
My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:My Dream wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:My Dream wrote:still waiting for a better idea all i see is unhappy mains of scam alts How much did you lose? All I'm seeing is an unhappy scam victim, who can't take responsibility for being greedy. Also Features and Ideas would be a better place to have posted, you tend to get a better class of ridicule in there. so you fully endorse the idea that making isk in eve should be completely risk free Nope, you're kind of jumping to conclusions there. CCP implicitly allow scamming, it's up to us, the players, to provide the consequences. It's also up to us, the players, to take responsibility for their own ignorance and greed. If you'd read one of my previous posts you would see that I have been the victim of a scam to the tune of the best part of a billion isk. Do you know what I did about it? I congratulated the scammer and then asked how he'd done it, I learnt a valuable lesson in how the market works in the process.
i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback
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Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
74
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
My Dream wrote:keep the personal insults at me going guys . gotta love the endangered scammers
Not a scammer - this is my main. My giant carebearing high-sec main. Ad hominem attacks don't support your argument... they just make it clear that you can't support your argument any other way.
The first time I see someone post a scam I block them. Keeps trade hubs really quiet for me. But, I don't have to evaluate nearly as many posted deals since I'm already ignoring the ones from known scammers.
You still haven't answered how CONCORD would identify actual scams... it's not that hard to arrange to have multiple reports (your suggestion) sent in from alternate accounts or corpmates or whatever.
You are fundamentally asking for the game to take a player's word (or however many words you consider a minimum to trigger this) that they were scammed. You are asking to automate a judgement call. You are trying to put a hard line between "legit deal" and "scam" into an area full of shades of grey.
As others have noted - scams rely on greed and ignorance. That doesn't make them ethical, but it does make them reasonably avoidable via the old adage "if it's too good to be true, it's probably a scam".
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My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers |
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Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
74
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
My Dream wrote:i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback
Wardecs.
Bounties.
Ganking them yourself.
Hiring merc corps. |
Zane Lowe
Aliastra Gallente Federation
131
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
My Dream wrote:and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers
No one besides you wants a new mechanic to punish them, because current methods are fine. |
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
74
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:44:00 -
[33] - Quote
My Dream wrote:and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers
People are not required to come up with a better idea in order to shoot down a bad idea. Your idea can be bad all on its own.
"How can we get Fluffy out of the tree - the branches won't support our weight and we can't get up high enough with a ladder!"
"Cut down the tree!"
"Bad idea - it would fall on the house, and probably kill Fluffy, too!"
"Well, unless you have a better idea, I'm going to go get the chainsaw..."
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14186
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:44:00 -
[34] - Quote
My Dream wrote:i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback
We already have the tools, you just don't know how to use some of them.
The most important tool all of us have to avoid being scammed is called a brain, closely followed by actually reading things like contracts and doing some research. In game there's the blocklist which you can use to stop scams appearing in chat, the standings mechanic, bounties, wardecs, knowing how margin trading works, etc.
99% of every scam ever relies on the mark being greedy (or drunk in Eve), if the mark isn't greedy, the scam doesn't work. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4228
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:45:00 -
[35] - Quote
My Dream wrote:and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers
Find them and shoot them. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3736
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:46:00 -
[36] - Quote
Zane Lowe wrote:Let's put a system in place which is highly abusable, will likely harm innocent players, and will take up a ton of GM time to solve something that isn't a problem.
How could that possibly go wrong.
CCP has copy-pasta trained to level 5 for anything that does not violate the TOS/EULA. That probably deals with 99.5% of tickets they receive for "scamming".
The "system" only goes wrong when a player does not engage their brain before acting. Oddly enough this seems to be an increasing and not a decreasing problem. You should blame parents and a lack of sunshine, you can't fix or patch stupid.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1708
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:46:00 -
[37] - Quote
My Dream wrote:and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers
You should try holding your breath and stamping your feet. I hear that gets good results. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Haulie Berry
1118
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:46:00 -
[38] - Quote
My Dream wrote:and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers
It turns out that you don't get to punish people who aren't doing anything wrong. |
My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Elliavir wrote:My Dream wrote:i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback
Wardecs. Bounties. Ganking them yourself. Hiring merc corps.
1st there normally alts in npc corps
2nd bounties allthough usefull . are usless for this because concord will protect the scammer when trying to collect
3rd see above
4 nd see above again =p
and non of this removes there illl gotten gains from there wallet
stuns me the amount of people who fully endorse un ethical isk making . the game prides its self on realism yet we have noway to punish perpitrators of a criminal act and it is criminal by any yard stick |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
702
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:49:00 -
[40] - Quote
ooh gimme gimme :) I can have fun with this. |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14188
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:49:00 -
[41] - Quote
My Dream wrote:Elliavir wrote:My Dream wrote:i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback
Wardecs. Bounties. Ganking them yourself. Hiring merc corps. 1st there normally alts in npc corps 2nd bounties allthough usefull . are usless for this because concord will protect the scammer when trying to collect 3rd see above 4 nd see above again =p and non of this removes there illl gotten gains from there wallet stuns me the amount of people who fully endorse un ethical isk making . the game prides its self on realism yet we have noway to punish perpitrators of a criminal act and it is criminal by any yard stick Not CCPs and their stick is the only one that counts. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
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My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:My Dream wrote:Elliavir wrote:My Dream wrote:i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback
Wardecs. Bounties. Ganking them yourself. Hiring merc corps. 1st there normally alts in npc corps 2nd bounties allthough usefull . are usless for this because concord will protect the scammer when trying to collect 3rd see above 4 nd see above again =p and non of this removes there illl gotten gains from there wallet stuns me the amount of people who fully endorse un ethical isk making . the game prides its self on realism yet we have noway to punish perpitrators of a criminal act and it is criminal by any yard stick Not CCPs and their stick is the only one that counts.
not asking for GM intervention asking for a tool within the convines of the game that will hurt those who have a risk free money faucet |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
6117
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:56:00 -
[43] - Quote
Did someone not get their doubled ISK?
Was that buy order for that too good to be true price not true?
Did you wanted all their stuffs for 1 trit?
If that happened I feel bad for you son, but ive got 99 problems but a scam aint one.
In the future, if you think something is a scam, use my trusted third party services. Ill take and hold your ISK, and then thouroughly investigate the 'scam' using my patented and proprietary techniques, and only if my exacting criteria are met will I initiate the transaction, and return the goods to you via contract with the cost of my 5% commission. I have many many satisfied customers. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4229
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:57:00 -
[44] - Quote
My Dream wrote:not asking for GM intervention asking for a tool within the convines of the game that will hurt those who have a risk free money faucet
Oh, oh, oh, I know the answer here.
Stop giving them ISK. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
464
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
By the same standard, begging is also risk-free. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14188
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
My Dream wrote: not asking for GM intervention asking for a tool within the convines of the game that will hurt those who have a risk free money faucet
Firstly it's not a faucet, scamming generates no new isk, it's just a transfer of funds. Secondly the tools are already there, you just refuse to see or use them inventively.
Now tell us again why a scammer should be punished for taking advantage of another players greed and ignorance, by using the existing mechanics and tools in an inventive manner? I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
|
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
74
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:58:00 -
[47] - Quote
My Dream wrote:Elliavir wrote:My Dream wrote:i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback
Wardecs. Bounties. Ganking them yourself. Hiring merc corps. 1st there normally alts in npc corps 2nd bounties allthough usefull . are usless for this because concord will protect the scammer when trying to collect 3rd see above 4 nd see above again =p and non of this removes there illl gotten gains from there wallet stuns me the amount of people who fully endorse un ethical isk making . the game prides its self on realism yet we have noway to punish perpitrators of a criminal act and it is criminal by any yard stick
CONCORD doesn't protect ANYBODY. Please see some threads from high-sec miners if you don't agree. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
715
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:59:00 -
[48] - Quote
Capsuleers (players) setting CONCORD (godmode NPCs) upon one another? For something as vague as a scam? Which is indistinguishable from a normal contract or trade where the code is concerned?
IDDQD no thanks! |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14188
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 17:02:00 -
[49] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:IDDQD +1 for the cheat code
I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
|
My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 17:17:00 -
[50] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:My Dream wrote: not asking for GM intervention asking for a tool within the convines of the game that will hurt those who have a risk free money faucet
Firstly it's not a faucet, scamming generates no new isk, it's just a transfer of funds. Secondly the tools are already there, you just refuse to see or use them inventively. Now tell us again why a scammer should be punished for taking advantage of another players greed and ignorance, by using the existing mechanics and tools in an inventive manner?
nm matter how inventive my imagination is at using the provided systems there is no way to prevent him him gaining from un ethical isk making his scammed isk will be far off on his alt
he should be punished because he has gained isk in an unethical way if the game is going to pride its self on being a realistic sandbox that does not equal chaoes . the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail .
you cant have it one way and not another if your going to create a game to be as realistic as possible . eve in many ways is pretty much a simulator you gotta have realistic punishment to for misbehavour and in any civilised society be it virtual scamming is a unethical act
its unbalanced that there is indeed tools to scam but none to protect yourself apart from your own keen eye fairs fair the tools are there to scam wheres mine to get payback
|
|
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
646
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 17:21:00 -
[51] - Quote
CCP really needs to implement a new skill for avoiding scams. We can call it "Critical Thinking", give it a x24 training multiplier, and have it use Charisma and Memory for attributes. Base score, no implants figured in.
At level 5, it will prevent you from completing any transaction that may result in being scammed. Make it so it autotrains to 5 after being scammed twice, and remove the ability to cancel it out of the queue. Make sure this happens on all the player's alts, just to make sure.
Maybe, at that point, people will finally stop falling for scams. Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
|
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
74
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 17:24:00 -
[52] - Quote
My Dream wrote:[ ... snip ... the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail .
... snip ... any civilised society ... snip ...
You presume EVE is simulating Europe or something... EVE is more like Somalia or someplace else where governmental authority has broken down or is minimal and you rely on your own wits / hired thugs / joining into a larger group to protect your interests.
|
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4229
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 17:27:00 -
[53] - Quote
My Dream wrote:the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail .
And those rules are made and enforced by people using force or the threat of force. Not by magical space pixies shooting nukes.
You are free to declare that scamming is against the rules in EVE, and then enforce your rule using force or the threat of force.
Stop asking the sand in the box to animate and smack Billy just because he knocked down your castle, just go over yourself and knock down his. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
404
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 17:28:00 -
[54] - Quote
My Dream wrote:we know CCP is very reluctant to interfere in this glorious sandbox we have here through GM action action so why dont they put in a system where we can report the scam to concord for a modest fee
Concord would seek out and shoot the offenders and confiscate the scammed isk as evidence (podding would be preffered) this way there would be in game roleplayey consquences to scamming instead of it being totally risk free as it is
it would not break the taboo of non inteferance with the sandbox but would enable payback in a game way
Remove insurance. |
Maxpie
MUSE Buy-n-Large Metaphysical Utopian Society Enterprises
334
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 17:34:00 -
[55] - Quote
Op, there is no way to 'punish' scammers. They are, for the most part, on alts that do not ever undock. That's just the way it is and will be. Even local spam bots, extensively documented by none other than Chribba, barely draw a glance from CCP. On the other hand, 99% of scams are easily spotted and all are avoidable.
The only actual resolution would be to get rid of alts (not going to happen - the flood of tears would send Iceland to the bottom of the sea) and to get rid of second accounts (I doubt that would even be possible, and CCP certainly would not want to have fewer subs).
Hiding behind alts and such is the weakest part of the Eve immersion, but it's here to stay. If you were scammed, just accept your loss and move on. Think of it like parking tickets. They are generally just a gotcha and overly costly for even a minor infraction, but they can be avoided rather easily.
No good deed goes unpunished |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14189
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 17:35:00 -
[56] - Quote
My Dream wrote: nm matter how inventive my imagination is at using the provided systems there is no way to prevent him him gaining from un ethical isk making his scammed isk will be far off on his alt
Yes there is, it's called don't give them isk by not being a dumb victim.
Quote:he should be punished because he has gained isk in an unethical way if the game is going to pride its self on being a realistic sandbox that does not equal chaoes . the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail . Bad comparison, Earth doesn't have immortals running around in vehicles armed with weapons that can throw volkswagens over 100km. Scamming is also a viable business practice on Earth, we call it banking and politics, and people who succeed in them get rewarded.
Quote:you cant have it one way and not another if your going to create a game to be as realistic as possible . eve in many ways is pretty much a simulator you gotta have realistic punishment to for misbehavour and in any civilised society be it virtual scamming is a unethical act That's where you're going wrong in your assumptions, Eve is anything but civilised
Quote:its unbalanced that there is indeed tools to scam but none to protect yourself apart from your own keen eye fairs fair the tools are there to scam wheres mine to get payback
The tools aren't there specifically for scammers they're there for everybody, they've just figured out how to use them to deprive the greedy and ignorant of their possessions. The tools for payback are already there, you just haven't figured out how to use them effectively. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
|
My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 17:37:00 -
[57] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:My Dream wrote:the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail . And those rules are made and enforced by people using force or the threat of force. Not by magical space pixies shooting nukes. You are free to declare that scamming is against the rules in EVE, and then enforce your rule using force or the threat of force. Stop asking the sand in the box to animate and smack Billy just because he knocked down your castle, just go over yourself and knock down his.
i like your post and it has alot of truth but how does a simple individual enforce there will and how do i do it with noway to really hurt them where it counts in the wallet |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4229
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 17:40:00 -
[58] - Quote
My Dream wrote:i like your post and it has alot of truth but how does a simple individual enforce there will and how do i do it with noway to really hurt them where it counts in the wallet
Shoot them Scam them Steal from them
Ruin their next scam and so on "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14189
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 17:41:00 -
[59] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:My Dream wrote:i like your post and it has alot of truth but how does a simple individual enforce there will and how do i do it with noway to really hurt them where it counts in the wallet Shoot them Scam them Steal from them :effort: I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
|
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
646
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 17:41:00 -
[60] - Quote
My Dream wrote:RubyPorto wrote:My Dream wrote:the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail . And those rules are made and enforced by people using force or the threat of force. Not by magical space pixies shooting nukes. You are free to declare that scamming is against the rules in EVE, and then enforce your rule using force or the threat of force. Stop asking the sand in the box to animate and smack Billy just because he knocked down your castle, just go over yourself and knock down his. i like your post and it has alot of truth but how does a simple individual enforce there will and how do i do it with noway to really hurt them where it counts in the wallet
Here's a way. I used to do this back in my anti-scammer days.
Go find the item the scammer is using for his margin scam. Don't buy it from the scammer, of course. Use THAT to attempt to fill the obviously margin-traded buy orders the scammer posted.
I got...quite a few rage-posts out of that.
You can also put your own items up for sale at a better price, or put in a better buy order than the scammers offer (I recommend using margin trading for that).
See, THREE quick ways to "hurt them in the wallet" if you just put in the ~effort~. Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
|
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9222
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 18:08:00 -
[61] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:How does a 2004 character not understand how bad this idea is????
ebay Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 18:18:00 -
[62] - Quote
Andski wrote:Jint Hikaru wrote:How does a 2004 character not understand how bad this idea is???? ebay
if you think that report me and with anyluck you ll get a few days ban for wasting there time
in 15 years of online gaming i have never scammed anyone a fact im proud off
|
Winchester Steele
131
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 18:23:00 -
[63] - Quote
My Dream wrote:and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers
We could force them to read your shitposting in this awful thread? ... |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4229
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 18:24:00 -
[64] - Quote
My Dream wrote:in 15 years of online gaming i have never scammed anyone a fact im proud off
What, were people throwing themselves at you trying to give you money and you had to dodge?
I don't understand why you'd feel pride in making a choice that takes no effort or sacrifice whatsoever to make. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
464
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 18:27:00 -
[65] - Quote
I'm starting to feel bad for you, My Dream. I can arrange a gank but will need upfront payment to cover ship loss and sec/standings hit. Convo me in game to discuss terms. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14197
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 18:28:00 -
[66] - Quote
My Dream wrote: in 15 years of online gaming i have never scammed anyone a fact im proud off
If English is your native tongue,15 years better spent learning the difference between there, they're and their. If not, the beauty of capital letters and punctuation applies in any language. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
|
My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 18:31:00 -
[67] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:My Dream wrote: in 15 years of online gaming i have never scammed anyone a fact im proud off
If English is your native tongue,15 years better spent learning the difference between there, they're and their. If not, the beauty of capital letters and punctuation applies in any language.
and still the personal insults flow |
My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 18:32:00 -
[68] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:My Dream wrote:in 15 years of online gaming i have never scammed anyone a fact im proud off What, were people throwing themselves at you trying to give you money and you had to dodge? I don't understand why you'd feel pride in making a choice that takes no effort or sacrifice whatsoever to make.
makes me feel better than you |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14197
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 18:32:00 -
[69] - Quote
My Dream wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:My Dream wrote: in 15 years of online gaming i have never scammed anyone a fact im proud off
If English is your native tongue,15 years better spent learning the difference between there, they're and their. If not, the beauty of capital letters and punctuation applies in any language. and still the personal insults flow Nothing personal about it, if you're going to murder a language, at least do it properly. I can't write in Spanish French or German for toffee, but at least I try and follow basic grammar and punctuation when I murder them. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
|
My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 18:34:00 -
[70] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:My Dream wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:My Dream wrote: in 15 years of online gaming i have never scammed anyone a fact im proud off
If English is your native tongue,15 years better spent learning the difference between there, they're and their. If not, the beauty of capital letters and punctuation applies in any language. and still the personal insults flow Nothing personal about it, if you're going to murder a language, at least do it properly.
im not writing an essay |
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14197
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 18:35:00 -
[71] - Quote
My Dream wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:My Dream wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:My Dream wrote: in 15 years of online gaming i have never scammed anyone a fact im proud off
If English is your native tongue,15 years better spent learning the difference between there, they're and their. If not, the beauty of capital letters and punctuation applies in any language. and still the personal insults flow Nothing personal about it, if you're going to murder a language, at least do it properly. im not writing an essay But you do expect to be taken seriously?
I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
|
My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 18:36:00 -
[72] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:My Dream wrote:and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers We could force them to read your shitposting in this awful thread?
post with your main
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3462
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 18:37:00 -
[73] - Quote
This idea is certainly not tenable.
However, it would be nice if there was an ebay-styled reputation system in the market/contract system.
|
Kalishka Askulf
UNFRL Fleet Operations CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 18:58:00 -
[74] - Quote
My Dream wrote:we know CCP is very reluctant to interfere in this glorious sandbox we have here through GM action action so why dont they put in a system where we can report the scam to concord for a modest fee
Concord would seek out and shoot the offenders and confiscate the scammed isk as evidence (podding would be preffered) this way there would be in game roleplayey consquences to scamming instead of it being totally risk free as it is
it would not break the taboo of non inteferance with the sandbox but would enable payback in a game way
Clean up your own mess! Betty White knows it |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2668
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 19:04:00 -
[75] - Quote
I actually agree there should be a means to go after gankers. And frankly, there sort of is: You can put bounties, higher mercs, go suicde gank them, hunt them, out them on the forums, setup blacklists, and more.
The problem is, it is often hard to tell who the scammer really is, as you can easily run the scam on an alt and transfer the isk to your main guy.
As such, I proposed "Industrial, financial, and market analysis agents" to trace the isk back to the source, and thereby give you a proper target to attack!!!
Think locator agents that tell you where the money goes.... |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9223
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 19:09:00 -
[76] - Quote
Have you actually considered what would happen if that idea were implemented? That makes catching spies as simple as a few agent requests. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2668
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 19:12:00 -
[77] - Quote
Andski wrote:Have you actually considered what would happen if that idea were implemented? That makes catching spies as simple as a few agent requests.
Like you can't run API's to monitor isk transfers already? And techniques that avoid the API would generally avoid these agents too. |
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
75
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 19:14:00 -
[78] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:I actually agree there should be a means to go after gankers. And frankly, there sort of is: You can put bounties, higher mercs, go suicde gank them, hunt them, out them on the forums, setup blacklists, and more. The problem is, it is often hard to tell who the scammer really is, as you can easily run the scam on an alt and transfer the isk to your main guy. As such, I proposed " Industrial, financial, and market analysis agents" to trace the isk back to the source, and thereby give you a proper target to attack!!! Think locator agents that tell you where the money goes....
I would think the potential for bad data would be huge... how do you (or your agents) tell the difference between Mr. Scamalot transferring 100m ISK to his main and Mr. Scamalot giving 100m ISK to another player who has no idea of the source and is an innocent party?
There's a reason most countries acknowledge the difference between being an active participant in financial crime (being a fence, actively money-laundering) and happening to have tainted cash via legitimate means (selling your car for a fair price to a guy who robbed a bank).
'Follow the money' only works as long as you are also able to investigate intent and knowledge ... which is what real life investigators do and an in-game coded agent inherently cannot. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2668
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 19:23:00 -
[79] - Quote
Elliavir wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:I actually agree there should be a means to go after gankers. And frankly, there sort of is: You can put bounties, higher mercs, go suicde gank them, hunt them, out them on the forums, setup blacklists, and more. The problem is, it is often hard to tell who the scammer really is, as you can easily run the scam on an alt and transfer the isk to your main guy. As such, I proposed " Industrial, financial, and market analysis agents" to trace the isk back to the source, and thereby give you a proper target to attack!!! Think locator agents that tell you where the money goes.... I would think the potential for bad data would be huge... how do you (or your agents) tell the difference between Mr. Scamalot transferring 100m ISK to his main and Mr. Scamalot giving 100m ISK to another player who has no idea of the source and is an innocent party? There's a reason most countries acknowledge the difference between being an active participant in financial crime (being a fence, actively money-laundering) and happening to have tainted cash via legitimate means (selling your car for a fair price to a guy who robbed a bank). 'Follow the money' only works as long as you are also able to investigate intent and knowledge ... which is what real life investigators do and an in-game coded agent inherently cannot. Edit - And I'd also prefer my virtual reality not be a dystopia where I have literally no privacy. I live in the US - I have enough of that in my real life, thanks.
Repetitiveness and Amounts would be an indication of purpose. And the idea of someone misunderstanding the information and taking their vengeance out on a third party is priceless!
Also, I agree some limitations would be appropriate, I'm just not certain where that line should be drawn. Furthermore, in-space swapping, and the like would still provide untraceable movement of isk if you really desire that.
|
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
3334
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 19:25:00 -
[80] - Quote
My Dream wrote:stuns me the amount of people who fully endorse un ethical isk making . the game prides its self on realism yet we have noway to punish perpitrators of a criminal act and it is criminal by any yard stick You actually shouldn't be too surprised... given that the game is largely centered around being futuristic dystopia where the Wild West meets libertarian's wet dream... with everyone having the potential to become Ghenghis Khan they are so inclined. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
|
Haulie Berry
1118
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 19:31:00 -
[81] - Quote
How has this obvious troll thread not been locked? |
Winchester Steele
133
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 22:05:00 -
[82] - Quote
My Dream wrote:Winchester Steele wrote:My Dream wrote:and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers We could force them to read your shitposting in this awful thread? post with your main
Ummm.... Ok.. Here, posted with my main. Any more requests? ... |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4229
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 03:22:00 -
[83] - Quote
My Dream wrote:RubyPorto wrote:My Dream wrote:in 15 years of online gaming i have never scammed anyone a fact im proud off What, were people throwing themselves at you trying to give you money and you had to dodge? I don't understand why you'd feel pride in making a choice that takes no effort or sacrifice whatsoever to make. makes me feel better than you
My Dream wrote:and still the personal insults flow
From the mouths of babes.
Also, moral superiority based on legal actions in a game? I understand feeling superior for not breaking the ruled (i.e. cheating), but feeling morally superior for not castling? "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Angeal MacNova
LankTech Masters of Flying Objects
83
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 04:10:00 -
[84] - Quote
You want a game mechanic (for which there already are) to beat up on scammers because it is 'risk free isk making'?
'Trading on the market' is on the phone and would like to talk to you. |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations Self Sabatoge
1235
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 04:33:00 -
[85] - Quote
Clearly the community has spoken and decided this is a terrible idea. It doesn't make you a bad person of course. I would like to address a few things.
Clearly the OP was scammed and is upset. No, no one checked your posts to research it as you suggest they do because that's just a waste of time. I suspect it was for more than 1b isk because of how upset you are that you created a forum thread about it and insist that there must be some way to get back at this person. Nevermind that Eve has ads that say "be the villain."
As many have posted, you have all sorts of remedies already available such as ganking them, hiring mercs, etc.
The bounty mechanic sounds nice but simply isn't used much for the bounty itself. Bounties claimed are mainly just nice bonuses for shooting at someone anyway. Take me, for instance. As most people know, I do not scam. My bounty is from tips from satisfied clients. I have never had anyone try to gank me for my bounty. Sure, I have lost ships, but those losses were from war, ganking illegal miners, or playing around in low and null. I undock regularly with my bounty, and it isn't an issue.
To give us a more complete picture, I'd like for the op to detail what exactly happened to him that made him so mad. We all know that he freely gave isk or assets to another party of his own choosing. But what was the context? See Bio for isk doubling rules. -áIf you didn't read bio, chances are you helped fund those who did. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4229
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 05:52:00 -
[86] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:How has this obvious troll thread not been locked?
*Gasp*Troll on the Forums
Troll! on the forums
...Thought you ought to know... *Thud* "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Scoota 2
ANZAC ALLIANCE Against ALL Authorities
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 06:42:00 -
[87] - Quote
The biggest problem with your idea is that it has a high potential to create false positives.
In RL, if you came up with a solution to get rid of drug crime that had 90% success rate, and 10% of people that are falsely killed by police, it would be considered unacceptable. Every life is considered sacred, and thus the police have to hold that to the highest standard.
Although that analogy isn't 100% fitting to concord, the same theory holds true, especially when you look at it from ccp's point, a mechanic they make that creates false positives at all is a poorly designed mechanic, they don't want people rage quitting over a system they made that "got it wrong". In RL the police get it wrong, and people blame god, in eve ccp are pretty much the god's of eve.
So who is everyone going to blame in the end? How can people know the difference between right and wrong, it's like Russian roulette in space |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
15565
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 07:53:00 -
[88] - Quote
My Dream wrote:he should be punished because he has gained isk in an unethical way if the game is going to pride its self on being a realistic sandbox that does not equal chaoes . the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail .
you cant have it one way and not another if your going to create a game to be as realistic as possible . eve in many ways is pretty much a simulator you gotta have realistic punishment to for misbehavour and in any civilised society be it virtual scamming is a unethical act
its unbalanced that there is indeed tools to scam but none to protect yourself apart from your own keen eye fairs fair the tools are there to scam wheres mine to get payback
Do you then have an issue with those that practice regicide in chess? After all, murder is very unethical and following your logic, you should be able to stop them winning.
But back to the point, you already have options. The main one being not to fall for them in the first place. All most every scam, relies upon the victim thinking they are going to make ISK. If you're so willing to rush into an investment without gaining enough information first, then that's your fault.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
My Dream
Albion Scientific Projects
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 10:58:00 -
[89] - Quote
i really dont think any of you have grasped where im coming from
maybe my idea is not the best and thats fine to criticise put forward a better one and i will listen
i also have no problem with scams existing . i think i have made it clear i dont like them but whatever
the crutch of the problem is theres no way to get your own back against the said scammers thats truely effective they are like the untouchables of eve . no risk . lots of reward and that goes against everything i have believed up till now eve stands for .
it does not matter how much time invested to create a good scam takes . the fact there are no tools in game to effectivley hurt them back is BS
anyway im done with the thread i have failed to convince enough people that a risk free money maker is bad . i also have come to the conclusion that many are stealing money from noobs to fund there mains and those mains are members of alliances that most likely encourage it .
Eve is rotten to the core
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The Greenmachine Greenmachine
Green's Bicycle Shop
50
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 11:05:00 -
[90] - Quote
OP heres a little secret. Good scams are NOT risk free. the only scams that are close to risk free are the terrible ones that average 1 hit a month. If you got scammed by a Plex scam or something you deserved to lose |
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Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
143
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 11:18:00 -
[91] - Quote
My Dream wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:How about you not fall for scams? so you think scamming should be the only risk free money maker in eve =p
scamming is a darwinian device to purge eve of the idiots that fall for such obvious tricks and thus raise the calibre of eve players generally. It only makes isk as long as idiots exist. It is just a shame that evolution takes such a long time |
I Was There
Scorpion Invest
83
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 11:27:00 -
[92] - Quote
He didn't scam you. You just bought a plex in exchange for another plex and 540m. You legitimately signed a contract, that you didn't read through. |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
60
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 14:15:00 -
[93] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote: Also, its a sandbox, hire a merc!
they will for sure have loads of success ganking a station scammer.
Eve in Stations however... |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
345
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 14:54:00 -
[94] - Quote
how does this even have 5 pages?
OP Read this please. Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
345
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 14:57:00 -
[95] - Quote
embrel wrote:Jint Hikaru wrote: Also, its a sandbox, hire a merc!
they will for sure have loads of success ganking a station scammer. Eve in Stations however...
For the creative...there is always a route to revenge. Whether it's worth the effort, however, is subjective. Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations Self Sabatoge
1237
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 16:51:00 -
[96] - Quote
Maybe if he found a legit isk doubler, he would be happier. I am happy to serve to restore his faith in Eve. See Bio for isk doubling rules. -áIf you didn't read bio, chances are you helped fund those who did. |
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ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
168
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 18:26:00 -
[97] - Quote
Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion. ISD Tyrozan Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL |
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Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
569
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 18:49:00 -
[98] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:There should be a system to report people who post terrible suggestions on the forums to CONCORD. Which would then result in auto-ganking for a really long time. CCP, debuff Barges, or buff Ganking. Either will do for me, but we need more Yaaar! in this game lest it become WoW in Spaaaaace! -á~ Me |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1252
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 16:05:00 -
[99] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:My Dream wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:How about you not fall for scams? so you think scamming should be the only risk free money maker in eve =p It's hardly risk free. It takes time and isk to cultivate scams. They don't always work out.
You failed to demonstrate it's not risk free.
You just said it takes time and isk which every activity in Eve requires so. Can you demonstrate how risky it is? *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1252
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 20:06:00 -
[100] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Haulie Berry wrote:How has this obvious troll thread not been locked? *Gasp*Troll on the Forums Troll! on the forums ...Thought you ought to know... *Thud*
If only you were a nice looking blond babe I'd ask you to get all yer babies.
But yer not. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
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Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
667
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 20:16:00 -
[101] - Quote
Elliavir wrote: You can already put a bounty on anyone - put enough on them and they become worth ganking even in high-sec with CONCORD response..
Actually this is not true at all because of the way bounties work now: the killer gets a portion of the target's bounty pool that corresponds to some portion of the game's estimate of the value of the ship they are flying when they're killed. So basically, unless they're flying something really expensive it's not "worth it" to gank them in highsec at all.
Still, it's better than the old system where you'd place a bounty on someone and then the dude with the bounty on them would just pod themselves with an alt and collect your money, I guess. |
Arya Regnar
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
296
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 21:28:00 -
[102] - Quote
My Dream wrote:Victor Dathar wrote:I wish I could report your posting to Concord. come up with a better idea to deal with scamming . nothing should be risk free in eve listening .............. Probes deployed.
Filter set for: My sides
Scanning...
No scan results found.
Just when you think you found the most gullible idiot in EVE Einstein is proven right yet again.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4233
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 21:41:00 -
[103] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:You failed to demonstrate it's not risk free.
You just said it takes time and isk which every activity in Eve requires so. Can you demonstrate how risky it is?
You risk wasting your time for no payout.
Exact same source of risk as HS exploration. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Anomaly One
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 21:41:00 -
[104] - Quote
brilliant idea +1 |
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