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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1082
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Posted - 2013.10.04 18:36:00 -
[91] - Quote
A Research Alt wrote:Running it with 2 people does not magically make the site contain more value than it initially did.
It does mean you can go through the cans twice as quickly, and scan sites down 2 at a time. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16756
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Posted - 2013.10.04 18:38:00 -
[92] - Quote
A Research Alt wrote:Running it with 2 people does not magically make the site contain more value than it initially did. GǪwhich no-one has suggested. Again, you're only choosing to ignore the context.
If you don't get how adding a person means you don't miss out on half the valuables any more, then I can't really help you. At most, I can suggest medication and/or counselling; maybe some light teaching if the affliction is of a less advanced nature. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
A Research Alt
Perkone Caldari State
38
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Posted - 2013.10.04 18:38:00 -
[93] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:A Research Alt wrote:Running it with 2 people does not magically make the site contain more value than it initially did. It does mean you can go through the cans twice as quickly, and scan sites down 2 at a time.
"did you know doubling the number of people doubles the number of people doing something
Thanks for your valuable insight. |
Seven Koskanaiken
Under the Wings of Fury Atrocitas
370
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Posted - 2013.10.04 18:39:00 -
[94] - Quote
there's no reason for it to encourage grouping at the moment
1. you don't get 50% isk per site, more like 80-90% because you look scan the cans and look up loot table. taking another person along means that rather than getting most of the good loot you now only get half of the good loot (if partner also looks up loot table, grouping means losing money 2. two people are better flying in opposite directions and scanning twice the ground to find sites, and spreading the risk of getting ganked, gatecamped etc., than both following the same route and one waiting (booooring) for the other to scan 3. you gotta wait (booooring) for someone in corp to come online who wants to explore, or team up with a stranger who prob got guns and scram fitting to the heron
so all spew does is irritate |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16756
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Posted - 2013.10.04 18:39:00 -
[95] - Quote
A Research Alt wrote:"did you know doubling the number of people doubles the number of people doing something
Thanks for your valuable insight. His insight was quite valuable, unlike the platitude you invented.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
A Research Alt
Perkone Caldari State
38
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Posted - 2013.10.04 18:41:00 -
[96] - Quote
Tippia wrote:A Research Alt wrote:Running it with 2 people does not magically make the site contain more value than it initially did. GǪwhich no-one has suggested. Again, you're only choosing to ignore the context. If you don't get how adding a person means you don't miss out on half the valuables any more, then I can't really help you. At most, I can suggest medication and/or counselling; maybe some light teaching if the affliction is of a less advanced nature.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1082
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Posted - 2013.10.04 18:41:00 -
[97] - Quote
A Research Alt wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:A Research Alt wrote:Running it with 2 people does not magically make the site contain more value than it initially did. It does mean you can go through the cans twice as quickly, and scan sites down 2 at a time. "did you know doubling the number of people doubles the number of people doing something Thanks for your valuable insight.
Isk/hr = isk made, divided by the number of people doing the activity, divided by time spent.
However, the time spent is halved when the number of people doing it is doubled. So aside from running out of sites, your isk/hr efficiency is functionally the same. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Fa Xian
The Bene Gesserit Sanctuary Pact
21
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Posted - 2013.10.04 18:48:00 -
[98] - Quote
A Research Alt wrote:Running it with 2 people does not magically make the site contain more value than it initially did.
If all you do is data sites, you'll probably be struggling more to profit from exploration. There's really no reason to stick to only one kind of site. And frankly, you'll get a more steady income from relic sites anyway.
Data sites used to be better because the value of decryptors was higher. It's not anymore. Really, at a data site, you're really cruising for BPCs. That's the only real money there. The main trick to data sites is to cargo scan and, if there is no BPC, just loot all the Parts cans that come out. Skip the Materials cans. Only choose Data cans if there's a worthwhile BPC. In this way, data sites are much easier than relics - you don't lose anything to the spew, really. But they are less profitable overall.
At relic sites, though, you get tons of stuff from each site can. Too much for one player to grab. And it is often awkwardly split between Parts and Materials cans. You can still get good value from the site solo, but you will noticeably lose some valuable loot. This is the only situation you could bring a friend and really benefit, but you don't need to to make good money.
I do see small 2 and 3 man teams in null relic sites for this reason. Everywhere else is solo frigates which are easily capable of turning a profit. And of course, exploration is not an isk/hour thing - you want regular, solid income measured by time, you need to think about mining or missions.
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ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
168
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Posted - 2013.10.04 18:56:00 -
[99] - Quote
Thread has been moved to Issues, Workarounds & Localization. ISD Tyrozan Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL |
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A Research Alt
Perkone Caldari State
38
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Posted - 2013.10.04 18:58:00 -
[100] - Quote
RIP in peace, thread. |
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Seven Koskanaiken
Under the Wings of Fury Atrocitas
371
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Posted - 2013.10.04 19:00:00 -
[101] - Quote
you need to get over the idea that you are "losing" anything, you can''t lose what you don't have in the first place. when you see a site has x isk you should be automatically thinking that in reality it has x*0.8 isk, or whatever your pickup rate.
this is how i did invention, you don't "lose" the failure invents, they simply average out over time and present their true cost when you take the expected value rather than the absolute value.
the spew at the moment actually discourages grouping ok. say there is 1 litre water coming out of a tap and you have a 800ml jug to catch it, you can only ever catch 800ml. if you bring another person and have 2 800ml jugs, and catch half the water each, you now have only 500ml of water each. a 3rd jug would mean only 333.33ml each
800ml solo 500ml 2 people 333ml 3 people
the more people the worse it gets. and that's without counting costs/risks like, being betrayed by partner, getting ganked etc.
the way to encourage grouping is synergy. the outcome must be more than the sum of the parts. you must be able to get >800ml out of the tap EACH if teaming up, and scale it up the more people come. |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
303
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Posted - 2013.10.04 19:01:00 -
[102] - Quote
A Research Alt wrote:RIP in peace, thread.
Rest in peace in peace? That doesn't make sense. I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC. -- TheGunslinger42 |
A Research Alt
Perkone Caldari State
38
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Posted - 2013.10.04 19:01:00 -
[103] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:you need to get over the idea that you are "losing" anything, you can''t lose what you don't have in the first place. when you see a site has x isk you should be automatically thinking that in reality it has x*0.8 isk, or whatever your pickup rate.
this is how i did invention, you don't "lose" the failure invents, they simply average out over time and present their true cost when you take the expected value rather than the absolute value.
Wrong (you lose inputs like time and potential earnings)
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:the spew at the moment actually discourages grouping ok. say there is 1 litre water coming out of a tap and you have a 800ml jug to catch it, you can only ever catch 800ml. if you bring another person and have 2 800ml jugs, and catch half the water each, you now have only 500ml of water each. a 3rd jug would mean only 333.33ml each 800ml solo 500ml 2 people 333ml 3 people the more people the worse it gets. and that's without counting costs/risks like, being betrayed by partner, getting ganked etc. the way to encourage grouping is synergy. the outcome must be more than the sum of the parts. you must be able to get >800ml out of the tap EACH before teaming up, and scale it up the more people come.
Right |
Hammer Crendraven
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
53
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Posted - 2013.10.04 19:11:00 -
[104] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:If it really were that hard to grab the valuable containers, prices for salvage and invention materials wouldn't have crashed so hard. You must be doing something wrong.
That is exactly the point, this stuff is so cheap now because everybody else is doing it so I do not have to. I can just buy it cheap.
Now if it was more fun to do this then I would get some enjoyment out of it and the heck with the price, I would do it because it was fun. But alas, enough other people seem to like it that they make it cheap for me to avoid it and buy the stuff instead. So really I have no problem with this outcome. I have plenty of other things to do in game already. |
A Research Alt
Perkone Caldari State
38
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Posted - 2013.10.04 19:24:00 -
[105] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:A Research Alt wrote:RIP in peace, thread. Rest in peace in peace? That doesn't make sense.
thejoke |
Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
116
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Posted - 2013.10.04 19:46:00 -
[106] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:A Research Alt wrote:I'd just like take a moment here to give a shout-out to the person at CCP who did their math wrong and completely devalued all the exploration loot while we're on the subject. Actually, that has nothing to do with them. The decryptors are less easy to get than before. But there are roughly ten times as many people doing it, so the prices crashed. It's our actions, not CCPs that caused the market crash for decryptors and stuff.
Please - its ridiculous to blame the players - Good development in a MMO is all about social design - CCP creates the rules that drive the players to do this or that. Prices crashed because CCP created a system that drove hordes of folk to engage in a certain behavior, ie hacking sites, its not the players fault that they used a system that CCP created. I don't play, I just fourm warrior. |
Bluto Cordite
Galaxy Wrecking LTD
2
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Posted - 2013.10.04 22:21:00 -
[107] - Quote
I think the Odyssey changes have actually removed any need for teamwork in exploration. With another char I use to play, I was only skilled for a cov ops frigate and would scan radar sites in low sec which had rats. My Helios could not deal with them, and a couple corp mates would provide the muscle. I would then hack the site and we would split the profit. Now, there's no rats. And you don't need anyone to help with the cans once you learn which ones are the best to get. Hover your mouse cursor over the cans to find their type and grab the ones you want. As some have mentioned, the freight scanner is also a help. What? Some of you people want all the cans? Cause you just gotta have that carbon and all the metal scraps? And the OP is right, 10 mil is 10 mil no matter how many are with you. And no, as one suggested, another player won't halve the time spent and 2x the profit. One person scans. No time savings. Both have to fly to the site. No time savings. One hacks the minigame. No time savings. A second person can save you, oh, 15 seconds getting all the cans, and you get.....all the carbon and metal scraps your little heart desires. The other night I flew through about 18 nul sec systems and before that some low sec. I found lots of wormholes and a few combat sites. I was in my Anathema solo. Many are doing the sites and there aren't enough for everyone. CCP made a mistake making everything easier. But, I think they were on the right road with some kind of minigame. And perhaps give us back some of the old radar site types. Also, learn to love the can spew. It's just part of the challenge with learning to pick the right cans which can be done. We also should have more varied loot and perhaps it could be a little more lucrative with some more spawns. I don't expect juicy finds all the time, but when I risk my ship solo through 18 nul systems risking bubbles and gate camps, I want.....something! |
Ryhss
Dry Atomic Fusion Gatekeepers Universe
116
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Posted - 2013.10.05 00:57:00 -
[108] - Quote
A Research Alt wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪthis is not a problem if you do it as a group. Granted, it's not actually a problem at all if you do it right, but if it were, grouping up would solve it. Yeah let's group up to earn 10M ISK per site divided into two shares. Great point. This alone is a great reason not to do the new hacking BS.... I have been known to spam trade windows with spammers of Jita. It is quite satisfying when they convo you screaming about reporting me for it. It normally provokes me to open another trade window with them. |
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