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Best Non-Pirate L4 boat?

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Reginald Canterbury Serenity. CORP. Diggers Inc. 0	Posted - 2013.10.05 13:52:00 - [1] - Quote I mean, I see a lot of people who use Ravens for L4s, myself included (at least I did back then), but then it got me thinking: is the Raven really the absolute best L4 boat? Currently, I am training for an Apocalypse Navy Issue but I'm having second thoughts. I'm not sure if I should just drop the training queue for it and just work on getting a full T2 Raven Navy Issue. Any thoughts? Oh, and Machariels are out of the question. At least for the meantime.
Bibosikus Caldari Deep Space Ventures Black Core Alliance 155	Posted - 2013.10.05 14:01:00 - [2] - Quote Isk for isk, a sentry Domi is worth considering; with the recent Domi drone buff, Garde II's put more dps out to a better optimal, with better tracking and zero ammo usage, than any other weapons platform. The drawback is ofc that they're stationary so you can't drift between gates as you apply dps. If you're running Serp missions, an Ishtar is excellent, now with the same buffs. The box said "Requires Windows-á2000 or better", so I installed Linux.
Ifly Uwalk Empire Tax Collection Agency 971	Posted - 2013.10.05 18:00:00 - [3] - Quote Tempest is way OP. Megathron can't be beat. Raven is way ++ber. Also Abaddon. ib4 "you can run L4s in a Drake," "Tengu ftw" and "I'm too dumb to read an entire OP and you should deffo get a Mach."
Kitty Bear Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance 893	Posted - 2013.10.05 19:30:00 - [4] - Quote T2 Raven should be more than good enough. Train for the apoc afterwards as well anyway, extra options are always useful.
EvEa Deva State War Academy Caldari State 370	Posted - 2013.10.05 21:03:00 - [5] - Quote Scorpion navy issue... same DPS as a CNR better tank.
Fia Magrath The Clown Inquisition 21	Posted - 2013.10.05 21:07:00 - [6] - Quote uhm, the obvious answer is golem.
Maethilar Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2013.10.05 22:06:00 - [7] - Quote EvEa Deva wrote: Scorpion navy issue... same DPS as a CNR better tank. Can you show the 2 fits? Because in EFT I always get less DPS from SNI than from CNR. Thanks.
Verity Sovereign Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter 574	Posted - 2013.10.06 12:32:00 - [8] - Quote Maethilar wrote: EvEa Deva wrote: Scorpion navy issue... same DPS as a CNR better tank. Can you show the 2 fits? Because in EFT I always get less DPS from SNI than from CNR. Thanks. Its not really hard (after the latest Navy BS rebalance) Scorpion Navy: 6 launchers, with a 25% cycle time reduction: 6/0.75 = 8 It has 8 effective launchers at lvl 5 It has 5 lows to fit BCUs, same as a CNR will fit (no point in fitting more than 4) It also has 75 drone bandwidth, same as the CNR and 1 utility high, which can be a turret. CNR: 8 launchers, no ROF or damage bonus (but rather an explosion radius bonus, for better applied DPS on smaller targets) 5 lows to fit BCUs, same as a SNI will fit (no point in fitting more than 4) It also has 75 drone bandwidth, Same as the SNI So, for any fit using the same drones, and same number of BCUs, with max skills, and all launcher slots filled, the SNI and CNR will have the same paper DPS, the CNR will do more applied DPS to small targets though. However... the SNI can actually do more DPS, by fitting a gun in its 7th high. That said... I will also +1 the Domi, the navy domi to a lesser extent, and the Vargur. (the Paladin is nice, as long as you go up against EM/Th weak enemies)a
Zoltan Lazar 147	Posted - 2013.10.06 13:10:00 - [9] - Quote MJD Sentry Domi cannot be beat. Quote: [Dominix, L4 Sentry Blitz Cheap] Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Large Armor Repairer II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines Large Micro Jump Drive Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Drone Scope Chip I Large Drone Scope Chip I Hammerhead II x5 Garde II x5 Ogre II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 250m as fit, can easily be pimped. Hits 800 DPS at 100km with Gardes.
Jena Jamson Thirtyplus Spaceship Samurai 11	Posted - 2013.10.06 13:42:00 - [10] - Quote Tengus. Agile, high damage, and small sig radius.

Reginald Canterbury Serenity. CORP. Diggers Inc. 1	Posted - 2013.10.06 13:53:00 - [11] - Quote Jena Jamson wrote: Tengus. Agile, high damage, and small sig radius. What about a Legion?
RavenPaine RaVeN Alliance 505	Posted - 2013.10.06 16:37:00 - [12] - Quote Reginald Canterbury wrote: Jena Jamson wrote: Tengus. Agile, high damage, and small sig radius. What about a Legion? Legion has 1 damage type, from medium weapons only. There must be at least 15 ships that would be better.
IIshira School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 217	Posted - 2013.10.06 17:50:00 - [13] - Quote I love the Scorpion Navy Issue and its a great ship... It will also do about the same DPS on EFT as the Raven Navy Issue. The thing is EFT doesn't tell the whole story... The 10% bonus to velocity and 5% bonus to explosion radius per level of Caldari Battleship on the Raven Navy Issue makes it do more actual DPS.
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 407	Posted - 2013.10.06 18:06:00 - [14] - Quote Typhoon fleet issue is the end to all these debates every time if you're looking at DPS. Of course, not cheap and high skills required.
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 892	Posted - 2013.10.06 19:13:00 - [15] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: Typhoon fleet issue is the end to all these debates every time if you're looking at DPS. Of course, not cheap and high skills required. TFI is beast. [Typhoon Fleet Issue, Damsel] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Drone Damage Amplifier II Photonic CPU Enhancer I Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field Gist C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field Drone Link Augmentor I Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile True Sansha Heavy Nosferatu Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Warrior II x10 Hobgoblin II x5 Garde II x5 Rigged for Gallante space. Eve is Real
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 350	Posted - 2013.10.06 20:09:00 - [16] - Quote IIshira wrote: I love the Scorpion Navy Issue and its a great ship... It will also do about the same DPS on EFT as the Raven Navy Issue. The thing is EFT doesn't tell the whole story... The 10% bonus to velocity and 5% bonus to explosion radius per level of Caldari Battleship on the Raven Navy Issue makes it do more actual DPS. plus with a 75/100 drone bandwidth/bay I can fit 3 sentries and have a flight of light drones. I really like the CNR as it is powerful and flexible. Golem is pretty similar, a little less flexible, although damn that target painter bonus. domi is incredible for the cost, but I'm not sure it counts as a best of. paladin is superduper especially against em/therm, and with bastion mode and rebalancing coming soonGäó it is getting even better (and imo the bastion mod doesn't really even do much for the paladin). I have a character that would be perfect in a fleet phoon, but I haven't gotten around to playing with it. on paper it looks awesome. You can trust me, I have a monocole
Isinero Perkone Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.10.06 21:44:00 - [17] - Quote I like tengu now (65km with heavy assault, nice damage, incredible tank, small radius and very fast :-D) and you can quickly traint skills for it, because it requires only medium and its easier to get than large weapons .... But I think that new marauders will be interesting and then sentry boats, but I dont like to be stationary and still take care about drones so thats why I am not fly it :-D (new marauders will be able to put out same dps (even more) and jump more often)
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 408	Posted - 2013.10.06 22:17:00 - [18] - Quote Its expensive if you have a mentalist fit like that. [Typhoon Fleet Issue, Budget] 6x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Scourge Fury Cruise Missile) Drone Link Augmentor II Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster 2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Co-Processor II 2x Drone Damage Amplifier II 2x Ballistic Control System II 2x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System 3x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I 5x Garde II 5x Hammerhead II 5x Hobgoblin Adjust rigs to T2 to taste. Pimp the mods to taste. Alter hardeners if you like, I dont bother because this thing is like the hand of a vengeful god. The above fits no dramas and no implants at not quite perfect skills. Edit and before the "no prop mod waaaaaaaambluance" pulls up, I use a different boat for travel requiring missions. The missions with a minor gate crawl, the cruise DPS until I pull up and park is quite satisfactory. And heavies? PvE? No.
Cage Man 270	Posted - 2013.10.06 22:25:00 - [19] - Quote IIshira wrote: I love the Scorpion Navy Issue and its a great ship... It will also do about the same DPS on EFT as the Raven Navy Issue. The thing is EFT doesn't tell the whole story... The 10% bonus to velocity and 5% bonus to explosion radius per level of Caldari Battleship on the Raven Navy Issue makes it do more actual DPS. Rigs and 2xTP's on the SNI changes the picture.. so your comment is also EFT warrior'ing The thick plottens... CCP, When can my crane get its black paint job back??
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 408	Posted - 2013.10.06 22:28:00 - [20] - Quote It doesnt change it. There were extensive math posts around the time the hulls change, the ONLY cruise hull that rivals the CNR for DPS gotten down is the TFI (and TFI wins) and...maybe a golem, cant remember, it was an outsider in the converstations anyway and now its changing. Edit: The SNI isnt a million miles awawy, but (imo) the only reason to fly one is if being lazy to abuse tank, or sub-par skills to need its tanking facets to get by. It's nice to be sure, but in the DPS race, it is an "also ran".

stoicfaux 3437	Posted - 2013.10.06 22:52:00 - [21] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: It doesnt change it. There were extensive math posts around the time the hulls change, the ONLY cruise hull that rivals the CNR for DPS gotten down is the TFI (and TFI wins) and...maybe a golem, cant remember, it was an outsider in the converstations anyway and now its changing. Edit: The SNI isnt a million miles awawy, but (imo) the only reason to fly one is if being lazy to abuse tank, or sub-par skills to need its tanking facets to get by. It's nice to be sure, but in the DPS race, it is an "also ran". CNR is "best" due to damage selection, missile velocity bonus (reduces volley counting), a 25% built in rigor bonus that works at any range unlike TPs, can field sentry drones, etc.. However, it's fitting is pretty tight (i.e. difficult without high skills and faction/deadspace mods.) It has no open high slot for a tractor beam. Golem is probably a very close 2nd to the CNR. With on-the go looting/salvaging, the extra loot probably makes up for the CNR's advantages. Downside is being more vulnerable to NPC defenders (however NPC defenders are very weird in their effectiveness, meaning, the DPS loss looks to be much less than the raw stats would indicate.) TFI is best in raw DPS if you fill the lows full of DDAs and BCUs, but is very tight on CPU and has a very thin tank. SNI is easy to fit (lots of cpu/grid.) However, the lower volley damage and lack of missile velocity bonus can hurt its performance. OTOH, if you disconnect, you will probably still have a ship after you reconnect. With the new 5 second TP cycles in Rubicon, you will have a plethora of mid slots to play with. Domi's (and Ishtar's) 800 DPS and 100km optimal is very nice and very cheap. Adding some 425s makes the Domi rather competitive with other battleships. Gunships have noticeable advantages over missiles mainly in reduced DPS loss to overkill, being able to kill frigates at range easily, etc.. With Rubicon, the Paladin's and Kronos' one minute jump drive cycle puts everything at short range (no falloff isuses) or at long range (no tracking issues) or both. OTOH, a Scorch Paladin can hit ~90km of optimal in Bastion mode. tl;dr - There is no "best" anymore, especially if you have several "best of" categories for consideration. Fly what is fun, where fun is defined as whatever doesn't make your soul bleed from the repetitiveness of mission running.
snake03 3	Posted - 2013.12.15 02:28:00 - [22] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: Morrigan LeSante wrote: Typhoon fleet issue is the end to all these debates every time if you're looking at DPS. Of course, not cheap and high skills required. TFI is beast. [Typhoon Fleet Issue, Damsel] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Drone Damage Amplifier II Photonic CPU Enhancer I Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field Gist C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field Drone Link Augmentor I Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile True Sansha Heavy Nosferatu Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Warrior II x10 Hobgoblin II x5 Garde II x5 Rigged for Gallante space. No prop mod? I'm just a modern day caveman in search of a bigger club.
Jeanne-Luise Argenau Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 46	Posted - 2013.12.15 03:36:00 - [23] - Quote there is no perfect l4 boat. in amarr space against sansha/blood i would say napoc or baddon. for damage selection Raven Navy or maybe Typhoon. for lowest ammo consumption Domi or Ishtar (watch your drones). Megathron can be a nice ship works if i remember correct nearly as good as a Raven Navy. Legion i did a few missions in a shield ham legion worked but didnt rly like it. Hyperion tough to fit but good tank. Tempest i havent found a mission fit i liked so far. but if u get marauders i would think of using the vargur or the golem.
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 211	Posted - 2013.12.15 22:53:00 - [24] - Quote Typhoon fleet issue is the best raw dps hull(however kind of hard to use). CNR is good and easy to use in a CM fitting, it can be extreme good with torps at high SP levels and with a lot of movement. Domi is extreme good for the price, but for my taste a bit to inflexible with the movement(if you invest some serious isk quite some hulls can beat it, but at the price point of a normal domi it is unmatched). In the hands of a skilled player the navy apoc is a very good platform in the Amarr BS line-up, since quite similar to the mach it combines massive range, high tracking, high speed, ok turret and good sentry dps. The tempest feels kind of underwhelming, even with max skills and to somebody that got tons of experience flying pests and machs in pve(not that I stated exactly this in the mini BS rebalance thread). It gets the job done(if you can fly it) but compared to the mach it is just gimped in any aspect(while range, mobility and dps are the obvious contenders, as I stated back then, the to weak capacitor just holds the hull that is vastly depended on mobility with the mwd back). [Tempest, I blame Rise] Large Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Gyrostabilizer II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Gist B-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Light Missile Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II Large Dynamic Fuel Valve II Garde II x3 Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
erg cz Sliperer 32	Posted - 2013.12.16 13:10:00 - [25] - Quote I wonder what is wrong so much with Armageddon navy issue? It is much cheaper (350 mio ISK) than any other navy BS. It can launch 5 sentry drones and use 7 turrets, so 12 guns shooting at the same moment. It does not have bonuses for drones or range weapons, but it can carry 5 sentry, 5 medium and 5 light drones of desired damage type, it has biggest basic armor tank and biggest cargo hold. If it would have bonuses for drones / armor or turret range - it would be OP. From my point of view it is the best Non-Pirate L4 boat if you do not want to spend more then 400-500 Milions ISK for ship + fitting. In this fit you can swap EANM to proper armor hardener, if you know, what kind of damage you will receive in mission: [Armageddon Navy Issue, Armageddon Navy Issue 7 x Tachyon PVE L4 mission boat] Reactor Control Unit II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Federation Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Federation Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Federation Navy Large Armor Repairer Sensor Booster II Large Micro Jump Drive Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I Drone Link Augmentor II Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Energy Locus Coordinator I Read more: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/68279-Armageddon-Navy-Issue-7-x-Tachyon-PVE-L4-mission-boat.html#ixzz2ndvd4OPa
Dextrome Thorphan RvB - RED Federation 88	Posted - 2013.12.16 13:52:00 - [26] - Quote Kitty Bear wrote: T2 Raven should be more than good enough. Train for the apoc afterwards as well anyway, extra options are always useful. T2 raven? You mean faction raven, right?
Dextrome Thorphan RvB - RED Federation 88	Posted - 2013.12.16 13:53:00 - [27] - Quote Jena Jamson wrote: Tengus. Agile, high damage, and small sig radius. Tengus aren't cost-effective at all. And they do definately not perform better than Ravens in L4s... EDIT: Unless you're doing alot of missions with mostly frigs/cruisers of course. But I try to avoid those.
Antillie Sa'Kan Forging Industries Silent Infinity 206	Posted - 2013.12.16 16:15:00 - [28] - Quote Outside of the marauders I would say it comes down to the Dominix and the CNR if we are talking about a "one boat to run them all" approach. Between those two I would say its more personal preference than anything else.
Estella Osoka Deep Void Merc Syndicate Sicarius Draconis 177	Posted - 2013.12.16 21:47:00 - [29] - Quote Anything blingy without some buffer tank is just begging to be ganked. And usually will be. My advice would be to keep it cheap until you can fly/afford a Marauder. Vargur or Golem would be best due to their ability to shield fit and change damage types.
Stevez Ftw Zahadu 2	Posted - 2013.12.17 10:36:00 - [30] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: Morrigan LeSante wrote: Typhoon fleet issue is the end to all these debates every time if you're looking at DPS. Of course, not cheap and high skills required. TFI is beast. [Typhoon Fleet Issue, Damsel] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Drone Damage Amplifier II Photonic CPU Enhancer I Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field Gist C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field Drone Link Augmentor I Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile True Sansha Heavy Nosferatu Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Warrior II x10 Hobgoblin II x5 Garde II x5 Rigged for Gallante space. Looks great but if you doing missions in big hub very quick you would get ganked by some losers. And t2fit would struggle a bit with tank. I love machariel. Quick agile. Medium to short distance. If i had skills for missiles would probably switched to TFI tho



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