Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Reginald Canterbury
Serenity. CORP. Diggers Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 13:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
I mean, I see a lot of people who use Ravens for L4s, myself included (at least I did back then), but then it got me thinking: is the Raven really the absolute best L4 boat?
Currently, I am training for an Apocalypse Navy Issue but I'm having second thoughts. I'm not sure if I should just drop the training queue for it and just work on getting a full T2 Raven Navy Issue. Any thoughts?
Oh, and Machariels are out of the question. At least for the meantime. |
Bibosikus
Caldari Deep Space Ventures Black Core Alliance
155
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 14:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Isk for isk, a sentry Domi is worth considering; with the recent Domi drone buff, Garde II's put more dps out to a better optimal, with better tracking and zero ammo usage, than any other weapons platform. The drawback is ofc that they're stationary so you can't drift between gates as you apply dps. If you're running Serp missions, an Ishtar is excellent, now with the same buffs. The box said "Requires Windows-á2000 or better", so I installed Linux. |
Ifly Uwalk
Empire Tax Collection Agency
971
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 18:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tempest is way OP. Megathron can't be beat. Raven is way ++ber. Also Abaddon.
ib4 "you can run L4s in a Drake," "Tengu ftw" and "I'm too dumb to read an entire OP and you should deffo get a Mach." |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
893
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 19:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
T2 Raven should be more than good enough. Train for the apoc afterwards as well anyway, extra options are always useful.
|
EvEa Deva
State War Academy Caldari State
370
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 21:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Scorpion navy issue... same DPS as a CNR better tank. |
Fia Magrath
The Clown Inquisition
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 21:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
uhm, the obvious answer is golem. |
Maethilar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 22:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
EvEa Deva wrote:Scorpion navy issue... same DPS as a CNR better tank.
Can you show the 2 fits? Because in EFT I always get less DPS from SNI than from CNR.
Thanks. |
Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
574
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 12:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Maethilar wrote:EvEa Deva wrote:Scorpion navy issue... same DPS as a CNR better tank. Can you show the 2 fits? Because in EFT I always get less DPS from SNI than from CNR. Thanks.
Its not really hard (after the latest Navy BS rebalance)
Scorpion Navy: 6 launchers, with a 25% cycle time reduction: 6/0.75 = 8 It has 8 effective launchers at lvl 5 It has 5 lows to fit BCUs, same as a CNR will fit (no point in fitting more than 4) It also has 75 drone bandwidth, same as the CNR and 1 utility high, which can be a turret.
CNR: 8 launchers, no ROF or damage bonus (but rather an explosion radius bonus, for better applied DPS on smaller targets) 5 lows to fit BCUs, same as a SNI will fit (no point in fitting more than 4) It also has 75 drone bandwidth, Same as the SNI
So, for any fit using the same drones, and same number of BCUs, with max skills, and all launcher slots filled, the SNI and CNR will have the same paper DPS, the CNR will do more applied DPS to small targets though.
However... the SNI can actually do more DPS, by fitting a gun in its 7th high.
That said... I will also +1 the Domi, the navy domi to a lesser extent, and the Vargur. (the Paladin is nice, as long as you go up against EM/Th weak enemies)a |
Zoltan Lazar
147
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 13:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
MJD Sentry Domi cannot be beat.
Quote:[Dominix, L4 Sentry Blitz Cheap]
Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Large Armor Repairer II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines Large Micro Jump Drive Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Drone Scope Chip I Large Drone Scope Chip I
Hammerhead II x5 Garde II x5 Ogre II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
250m as fit, can easily be pimped.
Hits 800 DPS at 100km with Gardes. |
Jena Jamson
Thirtyplus Spaceship Samurai
11
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 13:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tengus. Agile, high damage, and small sig radius. |
|
Reginald Canterbury
Serenity. CORP. Diggers Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 13:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jena Jamson wrote:Tengus. Agile, high damage, and small sig radius. What about a Legion? |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
505
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 16:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Reginald Canterbury wrote:Jena Jamson wrote:Tengus. Agile, high damage, and small sig radius. What about a Legion?
Legion has 1 damage type, from medium weapons only. There must be at least 15 ships that would be better. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
217
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 17:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
I love the Scorpion Navy Issue and its a great ship... It will also do about the same DPS on EFT as the Raven Navy Issue. The thing is EFT doesn't tell the whole story...
The 10% bonus to velocity and 5% bonus to explosion radius per level of Caldari Battleship on the Raven Navy Issue makes it do more actual DPS. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
407
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 18:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Typhoon fleet issue is the end to all these debates every time if you're looking at DPS.
Of course, not cheap and high skills required. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
892
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 19:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Typhoon fleet issue is the end to all these debates every time if you're looking at DPS.
Of course, not cheap and high skills required.
TFI is beast.
[Typhoon Fleet Issue, Damsel]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Drone Damage Amplifier II Photonic CPU Enhancer I Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field Gist C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Drone Link Augmentor I Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile True Sansha Heavy Nosferatu
Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Warrior II x10 Hobgoblin II x5 Garde II x5
Rigged for Gallante space.
Eve is Real |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
350
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 20:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
IIshira wrote:I love the Scorpion Navy Issue and its a great ship... It will also do about the same DPS on EFT as the Raven Navy Issue. The thing is EFT doesn't tell the whole story...
The 10% bonus to velocity and 5% bonus to explosion radius per level of Caldari Battleship on the Raven Navy Issue makes it do more actual DPS.
plus with a 75/100 drone bandwidth/bay I can fit 3 sentries and have a flight of light drones. I really like the CNR as it is powerful and flexible. Golem is pretty similar, a little less flexible, although damn that target painter bonus.
domi is incredible for the cost, but I'm not sure it counts as a best of.
paladin is superduper especially against em/therm, and with bastion mode and rebalancing coming soonGäó it is getting even better (and imo the bastion mod doesn't really even do much for the paladin).
I have a character that would be perfect in a fleet phoon, but I haven't gotten around to playing with it. on paper it looks awesome. You can trust me, I have a monocole |
Isinero
Perkone Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 21:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
I like tengu now (65km with heavy assault, nice damage, incredible tank, small radius and very fast :-D) and you can quickly traint skills for it, because it requires only medium and its easier to get than large weapons ....
But I think that new marauders will be interesting
and then sentry boats, but I dont like to be stationary and still take care about drones so thats why I am not fly it :-D (new marauders will be able to put out same dps (even more) and jump more often)
|
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
408
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 22:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Its expensive if you have a mentalist fit like that.
[Typhoon Fleet Issue, Budget]
6x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Scourge Fury Cruise Missile) Drone Link Augmentor II
Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster 2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Co-Processor II 2x Drone Damage Amplifier II 2x Ballistic Control System II 2x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
3x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
5x Garde II 5x Hammerhead II 5x Hobgoblin
Adjust rigs to T2 to taste. Pimp the mods to taste. Alter hardeners if you like, I dont bother because this thing is like the hand of a vengeful god. The above fits no dramas and no implants at not quite perfect skills.
Edit and before the "no prop mod waaaaaaaambluance" pulls up, I use a different boat for travel requiring missions. The missions with a minor gate crawl, the cruise DPS until I pull up and park is quite satisfactory.
And heavies? PvE? No. |
Cage Man
270
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 22:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
IIshira wrote:I love the Scorpion Navy Issue and its a great ship... It will also do about the same DPS on EFT as the Raven Navy Issue. The thing is EFT doesn't tell the whole story...
The 10% bonus to velocity and 5% bonus to explosion radius per level of Caldari Battleship on the Raven Navy Issue makes it do more actual DPS.
Rigs and 2xTP's on the SNI changes the picture.. so your comment is also EFT warrior'ing
The thick plottens... CCP, When can my crane get its black paint job back?? |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
408
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 22:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
It doesnt change it. There were extensive math posts around the time the hulls change, the ONLY cruise hull that rivals the CNR for DPS gotten down is the TFI (and TFI wins) and...maybe a golem, cant remember, it was an outsider in the converstations anyway and now its changing.
Edit: The SNI isnt a million miles awawy, but (imo) the only reason to fly one is if being lazy to abuse tank, or sub-par skills to need its tanking facets to get by. It's nice to be sure, but in the DPS race, it is an "also ran". |
|
stoicfaux
3437
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 22:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:It doesnt change it. There were extensive math posts around the time the hulls change, the ONLY cruise hull that rivals the CNR for DPS gotten down is the TFI (and TFI wins) and...maybe a golem, cant remember, it was an outsider in the converstations anyway and now its changing.
Edit: The SNI isnt a million miles awawy, but (imo) the only reason to fly one is if being lazy to abuse tank, or sub-par skills to need its tanking facets to get by. It's nice to be sure, but in the DPS race, it is an "also ran". CNR is "best" due to damage selection, missile velocity bonus (reduces volley counting), a 25% built in rigor bonus that works at any range unlike TPs, can field sentry drones, etc.. However, it's fitting is pretty tight (i.e. difficult without high skills and faction/deadspace mods.) It has no open high slot for a tractor beam.
Golem is probably a very close 2nd to the CNR. With on-the go looting/salvaging, the extra loot probably makes up for the CNR's advantages. Downside is being more vulnerable to NPC defenders (however NPC defenders are very weird in their effectiveness, meaning, the DPS loss looks to be much less than the raw stats would indicate.)
TFI is best in raw DPS if you fill the lows full of DDAs and BCUs, but is very tight on CPU and has a very thin tank.
SNI is easy to fit (lots of cpu/grid.) However, the lower volley damage and lack of missile velocity bonus can hurt its performance. OTOH, if you disconnect, you will probably still have a ship after you reconnect. With the new 5 second TP cycles in Rubicon, you will have a plethora of mid slots to play with.
Domi's (and Ishtar's) 800 DPS and 100km optimal is very nice and very cheap. Adding some 425s makes the Domi rather competitive with other battleships.
Gunships have noticeable advantages over missiles mainly in reduced DPS loss to overkill, being able to kill frigates at range easily, etc.. With Rubicon, the Paladin's and Kronos' one minute jump drive cycle puts everything at short range (no falloff isuses) or at long range (no tracking issues) or both. OTOH, a Scorch Paladin can hit ~90km of optimal in Bastion mode.
tl;dr - There is no "best" anymore, especially if you have several "best of" categories for consideration. Fly what is fun, where fun is defined as whatever doesn't make your soul bleed from the repetitiveness of mission running.
|
snake03
3
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 02:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:Typhoon fleet issue is the end to all these debates every time if you're looking at DPS.
Of course, not cheap and high skills required. TFI is beast. [Typhoon Fleet Issue, Damsel] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Drone Damage Amplifier II Photonic CPU Enhancer I Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field Gist C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field Drone Link Augmentor I Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile True Sansha Heavy Nosferatu Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Warrior II x10 Hobgoblin II x5 Garde II x5 Rigged for Gallante space.
No prop mod? I'm just a modern day caveman in search of a bigger club. |
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
46
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 03:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
there is no perfect l4 boat.
in amarr space against sansha/blood i would say napoc or baddon. for damage selection Raven Navy or maybe Typhoon. for lowest ammo consumption Domi or Ishtar (watch your drones).
Megathron can be a nice ship works if i remember correct nearly as good as a Raven Navy. Legion i did a few missions in a shield ham legion worked but didnt rly like it. Hyperion tough to fit but good tank. Tempest i havent found a mission fit i liked so far.
but if u get marauders i would think of using the vargur or the golem. |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
211
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 22:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
Typhoon fleet issue is the best raw dps hull(however kind of hard to use). CNR is good and easy to use in a CM fitting, it can be extreme good with torps at high SP levels and with a lot of movement. Domi is extreme good for the price, but for my taste a bit to inflexible with the movement(if you invest some serious isk quite some hulls can beat it, but at the price point of a normal domi it is unmatched).
In the hands of a skilled player the navy apoc is a very good platform in the Amarr BS line-up, since quite similar to the mach it combines massive range, high tracking, high speed, ok turret and good sentry dps.
The tempest feels kind of underwhelming, even with max skills and to somebody that got tons of experience flying pests and machs in pve(not that I stated exactly this in the mini BS rebalance thread). It gets the job done(if you can fly it) but compared to the mach it is just gimped in any aspect(while range, mobility and dps are the obvious contenders, as I stated back then, the to weak capacitor just holds the hull that is vastly depended on mobility with the mwd back).
[Tempest, I blame Rise] Large Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Gyrostabilizer II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Gist B-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Light Missile
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II Large Dynamic Fuel Valve II
Garde II x3
Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
|
erg cz
Sliperer
32
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 13:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
I wonder what is wrong so much with Armageddon navy issue? It is much cheaper (350 mio ISK) than any other navy BS. It can launch 5 sentry drones and use 7 turrets, so 12 guns shooting at the same moment. It does not have bonuses for drones or range weapons, but it can carry 5 sentry, 5 medium and 5 light drones of desired damage type, it has biggest basic armor tank and biggest cargo hold. If it would have bonuses for drones / armor or turret range - it would be OP. From my point of view it is the best Non-Pirate L4 boat if you do not want to spend more then 400-500 Milions ISK for ship + fitting.
In this fit you can swap EANM to proper armor hardener, if you know, what kind of damage you will receive in mission: [Armageddon Navy Issue, Armageddon Navy Issue 7 x Tachyon PVE L4 mission boat] Reactor Control Unit II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Federation Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Federation Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Federation Navy Large Armor Repairer
Sensor Booster II Large Micro Jump Drive Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Energy Locus Coordinator I
Read more: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/68279-Armageddon-Navy-Issue-7-x-Tachyon-PVE-L4-mission-boat.html#ixzz2ndvd4OPa |
Dextrome Thorphan
RvB - RED Federation
88
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 13:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:T2 Raven should be more than good enough. Train for the apoc afterwards as well anyway, extra options are always useful.
T2 raven? You mean faction raven, right? |
Dextrome Thorphan
RvB - RED Federation
88
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 13:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jena Jamson wrote:Tengus. Agile, high damage, and small sig radius.
Tengus aren't cost-effective at all. And they do definately not perform better than Ravens in L4s...
EDIT: Unless you're doing alot of missions with mostly frigs/cruisers of course. But I try to avoid those. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
206
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 16:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
Outside of the marauders I would say it comes down to the Dominix and the CNR if we are talking about a "one boat to run them all" approach. Between those two I would say its more personal preference than anything else. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Sicarius Draconis
177
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 21:47:00 -
[29] - Quote
Anything blingy without some buffer tank is just begging to be ganked. And usually will be. My advice would be to keep it cheap until you can fly/afford a Marauder. Vargur or Golem would be best due to their ability to shield fit and change damage types. |
Stevez Ftw
Zahadu
2
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 10:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:Typhoon fleet issue is the end to all these debates every time if you're looking at DPS.
Of course, not cheap and high skills required. TFI is beast. [Typhoon Fleet Issue, Damsel] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Drone Damage Amplifier II Photonic CPU Enhancer I Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field Gist C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field Drone Link Augmentor I Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile True Sansha Heavy Nosferatu Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Warrior II x10 Hobgoblin II x5 Garde II x5 Rigged for Gallante space. Looks great but if you doing missions in big hub very quick you would get ganked by some losers. And t2fit would struggle a bit with tank. I love machariel. Quick agile. Medium to short distance. If i had skills for missiles would probably switched to TFI tho |
|
Treborr MintingtonJr
Quantum Reality R n D Spaceship Samurai
91
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 11:49:00 -
[31] - Quote
I would recommend the dominix for ratting in general, its a very good ship to train for and cheap, I use it in nullsec because it makes interceptors think twice when trying to tackle you when you are 100km away.
In the past I have used the Raven and CNR but their damage application to frigates is painful, sentries just pop them. |
Sim Cognito
Ardent Spirits
9
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 16:44:00 -
[32] - Quote
Jena Jamson wrote:Tengus. Agile, high damage, and small sig radius.
Massive cost, micro-managing, wastes tons of ammo.
EFT warrioring is worthless. |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
827
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 17:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
All these fancy fittings with faction and deadspace gear is going to increase your chances of getting ganked. T2 is good enough to do level 4s. Believe me, I see blinged out ships getting ganked all the time.
Anyway, I started out in a Raven years ago, switched to a CNR, then got the skills for the Golem. I decided to try a Rattlesnake for a while, then since I had the skills for the Domi, I tried it out when they switched around the drone bonuses on it. I sold my Rattlesnake, and am loving the Domi.
Put a Micro Jump Drive on it, then use T2 sentries. Get easily 800dps with it. It hits the rats hard, and it kills them even faster than my 1200dps Rattlesnake did since the drones hit better with the Domi bonuses. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
655
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 18:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
"Best" non-pirate ship would be a shield tanked navy domi, simply because it has massive dps, good projection, mostly-selectable damage type. Needs some love in the tank mods (but nothing extravagant like a gist xl or deadspace invuln). Dominix wins for value, having excellent projection and near-perfect application, on top of selectable damage and no need for expensive fittings. There's also a cast to be made for the missile boats, depending on your preferences and skills.
Sim Cognito wrote:Jena Jamson wrote:Tengus. Agile, high damage, and small sig radius. Massive cost, micro-managing, wastes tons of ammo. EFT warrioring is worthless.
Tengu's are "massive cost???" The only thing that's expensive about them is faction damage mods, which are optional. The cost of a t2 fit with c-type booster is about the same as a t2 fit navy BS, which the OP is considering. Micromanaging? There's like 1 button to press and at most 2. Ammo? give me a break... "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
59
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 18:25:00 -
[35] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:All these fancy fittings with faction and deadspace gear is going to increase your chances of getting ganked. T2 is good enough to do level 4s. Believe me, I see blinged out ships getting ganked all the time.
Anyway, I started out in a Raven years ago, switched to a CNR, then got the skills for the Golem. I decided to try a Rattlesnake for a while, then since I had the skills for the Domi, I tried it out when they switched around the drone bonuses on it. I sold my Rattlesnake, and am loving the Domi.
Put a Micro Jump Drive on it, then use T2 sentries. Get easily 800dps with it. It hits the rats hard, and it kills them even faster than my 1200dps Rattlesnake did since the drones hit better with the Domi bonuses.
Sadly I've gotten to this point too. Nice to hear your experience though. I am currently considering skilling my way into a domi with 3 artillery fitted in highs, maybe even 4 I'll see. I don't see myself selling my rattler though, there are some missions where its tank is still important. But for any mission where 'sniping' isn't needed I will fly a marauder. And if it came down to 1 ship only its "Vargur all ze way bebe!".
|
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
895
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 18:49:00 -
[36] - Quote
Batelle wrote:"Best" non-pirate ship would be a shield tanked navy domi, simply because it has massive dps, good projection, mostly-selectable damage type.
The navy version don't have the tracking and range bonus to sentry drones, so you need to spend the extra mid slot on one extra drone tracking link to get the same bonus as the T1.
If you are going to shield tank it you need to sacrifice some mobility and/or some damage projection. Ideally you want 3 drone tracking links and both mwd and mjd, which don't leave a lot of room for a shield tank. 2 tracking links and either mwd or mjd will work, but you are going to lose some range which is annoying if you are going to be using garde.
The bonus the navy issue has to hybrid guns is not all that great on a sentry domi, ideally you want 2 high slots for drone control range and with all the drone upgrades take up some much cpu it's going to be hard to fit 4 425mm rails.
I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
655
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 19:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
dexington wrote:Batelle wrote:"Best" non-pirate ship would be a shield tanked navy domi, simply because it has massive dps, good projection, mostly-selectable damage type. The navy version don't have the tracking and range bonus to sentry drones, so you need to spend the extra mid slot on one extra drone tracking link to get the same bonus as the T1. If you are going to shield tank it you need to sacrifice some mobility and/or some damage projection. Ideally you want 3 drone tracking links and both mwd and mjd, which don't leave a lot of room for a shield tank. 2 tracking links and either mwd or mjd will work, but you are going to lose some range which is annoying if you are going to be using garde. The bonus the navy issue has to hybrid guns is not all that great on a sentry domi, ideally you want 2 high slots for drone control range and with all the drone upgrades take up some much cpu it's going to be hard to fit 4 425mm rails.
I put "best" in quotes because best dps is obviously not the only thing worth considering. As for your criticisms of the navy domi, of course you'll find it lacking if you try to use it exactly the same as a regular domi, true you need an extra faction omnilink to get the t1 bonus, but sentry drones and the domi were plenty good before the extra bonus came in. Of course it has worse damage projection, the answer is to be closer (you can still apply 1100-800 dps to anything in a 50-85km window). If you're thinking about 2 DLAs and 3 omnilinks, you're approaching it wrong. Also mobile depots are a thing. Another reason I quoted "best" was because making good use of the navy domi is skill intensive and requires some love in the fittings, which the OP might not want to do if he's saying no pirate battleships. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
291
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 13:33:00 -
[38] - Quote
Cage Man wrote:IIshira wrote:I love the Scorpion Navy Issue and its a great ship... It will also do about the same DPS on EFT as the Raven Navy Issue. The thing is EFT doesn't tell the whole story...
The 10% bonus to velocity and 5% bonus to explosion radius per level of Caldari Battleship on the Raven Navy Issue makes it do more actual DPS. Rigs and 2xTP's on the SNI changes the picture.. so your comment is also EFT warrior'ing
The same rigs would be on the CNR so that's no difference. I wasn't EFT warrior'ing, the velocity and percent explosion radius bonuses are right in the ships description. You don't need EFT for that. How when it comes to how much 2 target painters would help compared to the CNR's explosion radius bonus I couldn't say. The best way I would think is to take the two ships into a mission and shoot identical targets then see what kills it first. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
291
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 13:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
I'm currently fooling around with a cruise missile Golem. If you said the words "cruise missile" and "Golem" in the same sentence before Rubicon I would have cringed but with the new MJD and Bastion it does seem to work.
Yes I know you can use the MJD to get in range with torps. I might try this too but I want to get a bit more comfortable with the tank before I do too much "in your face" DPS with it.
With real life I haven't had as much Eve time as I'd like to test it. I did "The Blockade" last night. I started it with my CNR and warped into the mission... Ugh sensor damping was driving me crazy... I go back dock up and come out with the Golem. It was awesome not having to be on top of everything and dealing with painfully long targeting times.
I did notice that ECM takes a few seconds to drop after Bastion is engaged. I'm guessing this is them finishing their cycle of ECM before you engaged Bastion? |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
897
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 15:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
IIshira wrote:I did notice that ECM takes a few seconds to drop after Bastion is engaged. I'm guessing this is them finishing their cycle of ECM before you engaged Bastion?
I think you are right about the effects lasting until the cycle ends, does permanent effects like webs and scrams end right when you enable bastion mode?. I seem to remember webs and scrams also being applied for a short duration after bastion mode is enabled, if so it's might just be a static timer. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
|
seth Hendar
I love you miners
264
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 16:15:00 -
[41] - Quote
Reginald Canterbury wrote:I mean, I see a lot of people who use Ravens for L4s, myself included (at least I did back then), but then it got me thinking: is the Raven really the absolute best L4 boat?
Currently, I am training for an Apocalypse Navy Issue but I'm having second thoughts. I'm not sure if I should just drop the training queue for it and just work on getting a full T2 Raven Navy Issue. Any thoughts?
Oh, and Machariels are out of the question. At least for the meantime. ishtar is very good, provided you know how to handle it.
dual armor rep for safety, shield if you want efficiency (shield one might have trouble for some like world collide tho, be carefull) |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1018
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 17:22:00 -
[42] - Quote
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:Kitty Bear wrote:T2 Raven should be more than good enough. Train for the apoc afterwards as well anyway, extra options are always useful.
T2 raven? You mean faction raven, right?
No, I mean an ordinary Raven kitted out with Tech 2 Mods it's cheap and it will get the job done
Pirate BS or Marauders are overkill for L4's if your main concern is isk/hr then they are the route to go if your on a budget or not overly concerned about isk/hr then plain vanilla BS's are your better go to choices. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
291
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 18:15:00 -
[43] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:CNR is "best" due to damage selection, missile velocity bonus (reduces volley counting), a 25% built in rigor bonus that works at any range unlike TPs, can field sentry drones, etc.. However, it's fitting is pretty tight (i.e. difficult without high skills and faction/deadspace mods.) It has no open high slot for a tractor beam.
The fitting is tight but not that bad. I use all T2 except the CN BCS and deadspace shield booster. Both of those are almost required IMO if you want to do lots of missions. The BCS are pricy now so 3 will set you back about 300 mil. You can always use T2 for the 4th. The deadspace booster can set you back another 300 mil but again well worth it. I do miss the utility slot for a tractor beam. |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |