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Helen Tiger
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Posted - 2006.01.23 16:45:00 -
[1]
Hi guys,
I've been flying BS for a very long time and I feel it's time to move on to something bigger, now that it's there. But I have my doubts that dreads would be fun, and I could use some information.
As I understand it, for travelling dreads require a second player to fly to the target system and generate a cynosural field there, so the dread can use its jumpdrive. No big deal, I have a second account.
But exactly how far can you jump ? Surely you can't cross the whole universe in one jump, right ?
Also, can you jump into deadspace ? The reason I'm asking this is very simple : I don't see myself flying at 50 m/s between gates in deadspace. I'd rather jump even if it's to cover 50 km.
50km at 50m/s will take 1000 seconds, or over 16 minutes. Surely a jump will be faster, but can it be done ?
Besides, if you can't jump in deadspace, and dreads are too big for gates, how else can you get a dread into deadspace ? Or is it simply not possible at all ?
Back when dreads were not yet in game, I recall people posted that dreads cannot fly into empire (high-sec) space. Is that true ? Because I don't intend to go into 0.0 simply to build my ship, and then not be able to go anywhere else with it.
Another thing bothers me : some of the capital modules like the jump drive seem to require fuel the way POS's do. Ice products, it seems. Are these easy to come by ? Dreads have lots of cargo room, but will it be eaten up by the fuels required to operate the ship ?
Basically, what are the operating costs of a dread ? Is it something a solo player can consider ?
Just a crazy question for lightening up the mood : do dreads actually dock inside stations ? Hell some stations already look too small to fit a BS  Maybe the station builders use crazy space-time compression technology  ... and where in blazes are they going to put titans ? 
Finally, what would be your prefered choice of dread, regardless of your skills ? I tend to like the Caldari one, because of the 4 weapon slots and big-ass shield.
I'd love to hear from people flying dreads, how you fit them out, what you use them for, and how much you enjoy these ships compared to a BS.
Thank you all, I think I'm not the only player with such questions on his/her/its mind 
Helen
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Dan Grobag
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Posted - 2006.01.23 17:05:00 -
[2]
a carrier would do a better job, you would be slower with a dread than with a bs.
anyway you can't enter 0.5 and up.
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2006.01.23 18:25:00 -
[3]
Dreads cant enter 0.5 or higher, dreads can jump into deadspace, i doubt they can jump inside systems, ie from 1 ds level to another though, they can do dock with stations (Titans cant btw), Dreads can jump several systems at a time, it depends on the distance between the systems, carriers would be cheaper and more effective, ice is fairly easy to get.
The Gallente Dread is youre only real choice for killing NPC's as its got the biggest drone bay and drones bonuses. Though doing level 4 missions in a BS or hac would go A LOT faster and would be A LOT cheaper.
I doubt youll find many mission running setups though, dreads where designed as siege weapons to attack POSes and Stations with.
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Tribunal
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Posted - 2006.01.23 20:53:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
The Gallente Dread is youre only real choice for killing NPC's as its got the biggest drone bay and drones bonuses. Though doing level 4 missions in a BS or hac would go A LOT faster and would be A LOT cheaper.
A BS or HAC is not going to kill a level 4 mission faster then a Moros. The raw DPS from just the drones is staggering.
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2006.01.23 21:02:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tribunal
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
The Gallente Dread is youre only real choice for killing NPC's as its got the biggest drone bay and drones bonuses. Though doing level 4 missions in a BS or hac would go A LOT faster and would be A LOT cheaper.
A BS or HAC is not going to kill a level 4 mission faster then a Moros. The raw DPS from just the drones is staggering.
Im pretty sure i can complete Serpentis Extrava twice in the time it takes a Moros to actually reach the last level
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mimik
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Posted - 2006.01.23 21:13:00 -
[6]
considering it will mean having a second person around just to move a dread from system to system anyway then 2 people in BS will cruise through lvl4s far quicker than using a dread.
dreads just aint designed to take on large numbers of cruisers and frigs.
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Amateratsu
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Posted - 2006.01.24 01:22:00 -
[7]
If im not mistaken, dreads have a jump range of about 12 light years, how many system you can cross in 1 jump depends on the distance between the systems you want to jump between.
Dreads can only jump between low sec systems 0.4 and below, but there is nothing to stop you having a dread built in an empire system and using it on missions in that system.
But if you pick an empire system with no low sec systems in range of its jump drive, it wii be stuck in that system.
and of course cannot return to an empire system once it jumps out.
Its highly unlikey that a dread can make jumps within the same systems, but you can train skills and use boosters/implants ect to improve on the 50 m/s
dreads can use the acceleration gates as i have read forum posts where other players use dreads for lv4 missions.
I myself im concidering using dreads for the harder lv4s (and lv5's when they come in) and a normal tanked BS for the easier lv4s, but will require only accepting missions that are in the dreads home system, so no jumping will be required.
If you want to solo missions like "enemies abound" and "in the midst of deadspace" a dread is the only way to go:)
Hope thats helps
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Daxes
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Posted - 2006.01.24 01:36:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Originally by: Tribunal
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
The Gallente Dread is youre only real choice for killing NPC's as its got the biggest drone bay and drones bonuses. Though doing level 4 missions in a BS or hac would go A LOT faster and would be A LOT cheaper.
A BS or HAC is not going to kill a level 4 mission faster then a Moros. The raw DPS from just the drones is staggering.
Im pretty sure i can complete Serpentis Extrava twice in the time it takes a Moros to actually reach the last level
there is enough time to move to the gates while ur drones shoot the npc's and someone using a dread wont have a problem to get another player/account to loot stuff or create cyno fields if needed.
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mrg29
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Posted - 2006.01.24 02:38:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Amateratsu
If you want to solo missions like "enemies abound" and "in the midst of deadspace" a dread is the only way to go:)
Hope thats helps
these missions can be solo-ed without dreads - u just need good skills, a good setup and be able to plan your way through the mission properly.
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BATT
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Posted - 2006.01.24 03:16:00 -
[10]
Edited by: BATT on 24/01/2006 03:16:14
Quote:
and lv5's when they come in)
Yeah,i'd like to see whats a lvl5 kill mission will look like...
A solo bs might be too light for that one even well skilled and perfectly tanked 
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Helen Tiger
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Posted - 2006.01.24 09:12:00 -
[11]
Thanks for sharing, guys. I was wondering : does the low-sec-only limitation of dreads applies to Titans ? Not that I plan on using a titan in missions... I don't think anyone could build and operate a titan solo.
I don't really understand why dreads aren't allowed in hi-sec space... is CCP afraid that players will try to attack the Amarr throne worlds and seize power over the empire ?
I don't use drones much, being mostly a sniper I reserve them in case a frigate gets too close for my megabeams, but I've read quite often that people consider them to have been boosted by RMR. I've read several posts of people wanting to use a carrier to do L4 missions.
I'm a bit unsure about that... relying solely on drones can be dangerous : you need to be close enough to your targets that you'll actually need to tank lots of damage. Are carriers that good at tanking ? I'll need to have a close look at them.
I have fond memories of covering mining ops with swarms of Ogres... maybe a carrier is the way to go, and from your posts I understand they can get into high-sec space, right ?
My plan for using the caldari dread in mission was to use citadel torps to kill all BS and turrets first and fast, then tank the minor damage of the remaining frigs and cruisers until my drones kill them all. I've toyed with quickfit a little and with my skills I could use a tech II XL shield booster forever (I stopped the simulation after 35 minutes) along with two boost amps and some resistance amplifiers.
Do you think this could work ?
Helen
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Helen Tiger
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Posted - 2006.01.24 10:32:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Helen Tiger on 24/01/2006 10:33:04
OK, I just checked the carrier stats and OMG they PWN... at least on paper.
With the right fitting and skills you could easily get 12 fighters out doing your killing. These babies have the HP of a battlecruiser and the speed of an interceptor. Of course they cost pretty much the same.
Which brings up an interesting question : suppose you have 200+ million isk worth of fighters flying around your ship and you suddenly get disconnected or CtD...
If you lose your fighters, then it's pretty much the same as losing a fully-fitted battleship. That's really harsh.
What exactly happens when you warp out with fighters outside ? Anyone knows ?
Losing a dozen Ogres at 70K apiece is no big deal : kill a BS rat and you have recovered your loss. But lose a dozen fighters, and it'll take you at least 10 fat DS missions to recover from that loss.
Aside from that, they sure look OK, and the price is nice too. These babies can shield tank forever (at least the Caldari carrier can).
Now the usual questions : can carriers use gates or do they need to use jumpdrive too ? Are they limited to low-sec space only ?
I don't really like the idea of a space ship not being able to fly anywhere I want. I think I may have to wait for tier III BS's to have a new ship to play with
Who knows ? Maybe the next Caldari BS will have 8 launchers (scorp has 4, raven 6, natural progression would be 8, right ?)... well I can sure dream on
Helen
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Amateratsu
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Posted - 2006.01.24 11:21:00 -
[13]
I could be wrong on this, and im sure someone will correct me if i am..
but i believe that carrier fighters are actually controllded/flown by actuall players.
Carriers have clone bays allowing players to jump clones and board carriers and then
take the fighters out to engage in fleet battles.
The idea is to allow quick deployment of a fleet to battle player owned stations/structures/territory.
I believe they have the same jump limitations as dreads.
Dunno if they would be usable on missions or can use acceleration gates.
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Kane Jacobs
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Posted - 2006.01.24 11:36:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Kane Jacobs on 24/01/2006 11:37:21
Originally by: Amateratsu
I could be wrong on this, and im sure someone will correct me if i am..
but i believe that carrier fighters are actually controllded/flown by actuall players.
Carriers have clone bays allowing players to jump clones and board carriers and then
take the fighters out to engage in fleet battles.
The idea is to allow quick deployment of a fleet to battle player owned stations/structures/territory.
I believe they have the same jump limitations as dreads.
Dunno if they would be usable on missions or can use acceleration gates.
Fighters are NOT player controlled. They are like any other drone but with a few perks.
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Pinky Denmark
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Posted - 2006.01.24 12:14:00 -
[15]
8 launchers is not the only way a Tier3 Caldari BS can go (sounds a little lame)... I'll bet up to 4 missiles and up to 6 rails in 8 hi-slots, though I'd like to see 8 rails...
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Helen Tiger
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Posted - 2006.01.24 12:42:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Pinky Denmark
8 launchers is not the only way a Tier3 Caldari BS can go (sounds a little lame)... I'll bet up to 4 missiles and up to 6 rails in 8 hi-slots, though I'd like to see 8 rails...
I don't agree, there aren't that many ways tier 3 BS can go. Now that CCP has multiplied the number of ship classes to create mission-specific ships (like assault and logistics) they have to retain some patterns in any new tier ships so they can really fit in their class.
BS are fairly generic ships. You can expect tier 3 to cost around 170 million isk based on simple extrapolation from the existing BS tiers.
Likewise, extrapolation tells us the new ships will have the same total amount of slots, with just a change of distribution between hi/mid/low (actually high are likely to be 8 anyway).
If patterns keep, that 8-railgun ship you dream of would likely be Gallente (since Mega already has 7) and Caldari should have 8 missiles and maybe a reduced number of gun mounts. I don't need to remind you of the huge number of missile boats in the Caldari arsenal. A gunboat would look too much like a Megathron, don't you think ?
Other than that, it's quite certain these ships will have increased stats to justify the new tier.
Needless to say, things could go two other way :
- A ship between tier 1 and tier 2... but that bring no advantage : increased price over tier 1 and not capable of filling the boots of a tier 2 craft.
- A ship below tier 1... but that would be too close to a battlecruiser to justify the price (around 35-40 million isk ?)
I also thought CCP would try to make a kind of specialized BS, but I don't that that will happen : if they make such ships they will get their own class, for instance "tankers", BS's with increased resistances, HP and better capacitor, sort of like BS version of the HAC's.
All in all, the only plausible option for tier 3 BS is really to follow the pattern set by the existing ships. They won't be outrageously strong either because their must still be incentive for people to try and get capital ships, but there must be a decent alternative for people who are "in between"
Because let's face it : capital ships for solo players are not something you can consider on the short term. The skills cost a lot, building them is an adventure of its own, you can't fly them alone anyway and you can't go anywhere you want with them.
Besides, the same way tech II launchers made Arby's worthless, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the new BS's made Navy-issue BS's worthless.
But that's getting off the point... I think I'll train for carriers anyway. I'll just need to find myself new agents... thanks for all your posts guys.
Helen
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Germain
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Posted - 2006.01.24 16:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: mrg29
Originally by: Amateratsu
If you want to solo missions like "enemies abound" and "in the midst of deadspace" a dread is the only way to go:)
Hope thats helps
these missions can be solo-ed without dreads - u just need good skills, a good setup and be able to plan your way through the mission properly.
this may need another thread - how on earth do you do these two mission any good practical advise. i get own everytime. and it not doning my rating any good at all.
i run a armour tanked tempest with 1400mmt2 guns. i just cannot get a kill without help. and i keep changing my setup and still cannot not get close to doing the mission.
the problem i have is that every single NPC starts firing after a few seconds in the area. even if i do not mive at all i get hammered by them. i have to as soon as i get in the gate align for warp and hope that i dont get scramed. oh i tried with out WCS still cannot get the dmg needed to tak out one of the guy in there - i think the 3rd and the 4th ones are too hard to be done. i have not got to the 5th part yet.
i feel that if i can do 1st and second part that my setup cannot be that far out. so where am i going wrong.
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Orrin Danestarr
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Posted - 2006.01.24 16:38:00 -
[18]
Since fighters are intersolar capable, does anyone know if they will follow you when you log out if they are out?
"Imagination is the key that unlocks the door." - ME |
Galk
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Posted - 2006.01.24 19:04:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Im pretty sure i can complete Serpentis Extrava twice in the time it takes a Moros to actually reach the last level
Wrong.
The gates as you know in the serp extrva are very close together, the 2nd stage being a 10km ride..
Drones in no gang atm in a moros are ubber.. factor in 3 smart bombs for the vets, your laughing.
Plus they changed the agro pattern in the 3rd stage.. the ishtar can't take the pounding it does when everything comes at you.. iv'e tried it with a ubber domi and everything... i simpley can't gank everything fast enough (2nd ship) before i have to leave.. obviously as you know in a ishtar.. you have a very small window to get out if your completely out of your depth.. with the spiders aiming for you... that can be deadly... far greater than the domi option.. obviously price and don't want to lose it factor steps in (ishtar)
Personaly i don't use a moros for that mission anyway, most of the time it spawns out of the system and requires a chrono jump...
But 2 missions where you definately have a massive advantage with the moros, inflitrated outposts.. again borked kill anything drones... with added tractor beam loot scooper (8.5k) bay... lol... controllers that come under 20km... thankyou
Angel... need i say more.... agro the lot on any stage while making your way to the gate.. rampant drones... allways spawns in the home system.. tractor the loot if you can be botherd, personaly i use 3 smart bombs to speed things up while pouding the rest with another ship.
Still, saying the moros isn't all that, is wrong.. when i first got it running on missions i probaly would have agreed, i had fast setups that would have creamed the moros on just about everything, but ive found a couple of missions where it definately has an advantage.
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862 buses later, galks back on the road again:)
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Selena 001
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Posted - 2006.01.24 19:49:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Pinky Denmark
8 launchers is not the only way a Tier3 Caldari BS can go (sounds a little lame)... I'll bet up to 4 missiles and up to 6 rails in 8 hi-slots, though I'd like to see 8 rails...
Someones been looking thru the item databases haven't they? 
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Dont mind me, I'm Forum-Whoring cause I dont have anything better to do with my life... |
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Urza Rast
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Posted - 2006.01.25 02:13:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Selena 001
Originally by: Pinky Denmark
8 launchers is not the only way a Tier3 Caldari BS can go (sounds a little lame)... I'll bet up to 4 missiles and up to 6 rails in 8 hi-slots, though I'd like to see 8 rails...
Someones been looking thru the item databases haven't they?
Caldari Rail platform ftw, to bad the amarr one is going to be over redundant.
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Helen Tiger
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Posted - 2006.01.25 09:31:00 -
[22]
I'm gonna have to chech the data bases... but really a Caldari rail platform seems out of place : Gallente are supposed to be the hybrid users, Caldari only use them because no one wants to rely only on missiles. They are a backup.
Helen
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